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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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With us playing the blues tonight Ive heard renewed Pacioretty to St. Louis rumours.   There is a strong sense that the Blues are planning to go "all in" right now, thinking they have a legitimate shot at the cup for a couple of years.

Enter Pacioretty; Elite goal scorer signed for 2 more playoffs.  If they want him after that they can decide or if they do a rebuild then they can walk away.

The current offer I heard is  Thomas, Kyrou and a 1st rounder + a salary dump contract coming back our way. 

 

I would JUMP at that but not sure if a) MB will (no defenseman) or if the rumour is even legit.  

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

With us playing the blues tonight Ive heard renewed Pacioretty to St. Louis rumours.   There is a strong sense that the Blues are planning to go "all in" right now, thinking they have a legitimate shot at the cup for a couple of years.

Enter Pacioretty; Elite goal scorer signed for 2 more playoffs.  If they want him after that they can decide or if they do a rebuild then they can walk away.

The current offer I heard is  Thomas, Kyrou and a 1st rounder + a salary dump contract coming back our way. 

 

I would JUMP at that but not sure if a) MB will (no defenseman) or if the rumour is even legit.  

I'd jump on that too, that's a fantastic offer. Id' be satisfied if it were Thomas, Dunn, and a 1st, and even though it'd be nice to get a D man, I think Kyrou is a better prospect than Dunn.

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4 hours ago, maas_art said:

With us playing the blues tonight Ive heard renewed Pacioretty to St. Louis rumours.   There is a strong sense that the Blues are planning to go "all in" right now, thinking they have a legitimate shot at the cup for a couple of years.

Enter Pacioretty; Elite goal scorer signed for 2 more playoffs.  If they want him after that they can decide or if they do a rebuild then they can walk away.

The current offer I heard is  Thomas, Kyrou and a 1st rounder + a salary dump contract coming back our way. 

 

I would JUMP at that but not sure if a) MB will (no defenseman) or if the rumour is even legit.  

What ... if the salary dump were Stastny or Schenn?  though I doubt they trade either of thsoe

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17 minutes ago, Ravadak said:

 

Yah - who would want Sydney Crosby or John Tavares

You're hyperbole never fails.    I didn't say a 6'3 center vs Crosby/Tavares ... I said an unproven prospect at 6 foot vs an unproven prospect at 6'3 ... the trade in question was speculated to be two unproven prospects at 6'0.    My counter was maybe one of those and somebody down the middle who is bigger.

And if you're going to misrepresent my actual statement ... I said "6'3 with talent" ... and that it was a preference over a smaller player.   ie given similar talent levels I personally would prefer the larger player.      Nowhere did I state "I'd take the bigger player over the more talented smaller player".

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Both are 6' ... I'd prefer a hulking 6'3 center with talent myself

I know what you're saying and in an ideal world Id love a Getzlaf type but I am pretty sure we'd do very well with Thomas. He's pretty solidly built for his age too.  

And Poehling, who is still projecting as our potential #2 centre is 6'2" i believe. 

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8 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I know what you're saying and in an ideal world Id love a Getzlaf type but I am pretty sure we'd do very well with Thomas. He's pretty solidly built for his age too.  

And Poehling, who is still projecting as our potential #2 centre is 6'2" i believe. 

Oh definitely, not sneezing at either .. but I just always prefer a big center. 

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

You're hyperbole never fails.    I didn't say a 6'3 center vs Crosby/Tavares ... I said an unproven prospect at 6 foot vs an unproven prospect at 6'3 ... the trade in question was speculated to be two unproven prospects at 6'0.    My counter was maybe one of those and somebody down the middle who is bigger.

And if you're going to misrepresent my actual statement ... I said "6'3 with talent" ... and that it was a preference over a smaller player.   ie given similar talent levels I personally would prefer the larger player.      Nowhere did I state "I'd take the bigger player over the more talented smaller player".

Don't be all offended all I am saying 3 inches really doesn't mean a hill of beans, Its projected talent, not size. And those two player that were mentioned are extremely high end young players who are getting better all the time.

You can have two players who appear to have equal talent, but no way  can ever have equal talent,  its projected talent. IF you get caught looking for size you tend to exaggerate a bigger players talent over someone 2 or 3 inches shorter.

Maybe Crosby at 6 ft 3 is not as good as he is 6 ft, because what makes Crosby good is his tree trunk legs and low center of gravity, add 3 inches to height and now he may struggle down low.  

Simply saying you want someone 6 3 with talent over someone 6 .0 with talent is not near enough.  The size is not going to separate those two players its the projected talent that going to seperate those two players.  

 

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5 hours ago, Ravadak said:

 

Before February 26:

Trade all lower value assets like Plekanec (age and expiring contract) for picks and prospects to Cup Contenders.

Trade one higher value asset like Pacioretty or Weber to get a 1st round 2018 pick and two solid center prospects to anyone.

Draft Day:

Make two first round selections.  Probably an elite winger with the first pick and a projected #2 center with the second pick.

July 1st, noon:

Pursue Tavares 

July 1st, 12:30pm (After Tavares signs elsewhere):

Trade some combination of talented wingers and defence including: Weber (if still around), Pacioretty (if still around), Galchenyuk, Drouin, 2018 1st rounder #1, 2018 1st rounder #2, and, wait for it, Gallagher (gasp) for our new 1C.

Which leads me to the "rumour" I've heard, not surprisingly, Gallagher is highly sought after.  Imo, Gallagher is the heart and soul of the Habs, so if he goes, its a total rebuild.      

 

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13 hours ago, Ravadak said:

 

Simply saying you want someone 6 3 with talent over someone 6 .0 with talent is not near enough.  The size is not going to separate those two players its the projected talent that going to seperate those two players.  

 

EDIT    If projected talent is the same ... and the only difference is size, then in my opinion size matters.      You're last sentence here completely ignores everything I said for the simple sake of being argumentative.    You twisted what I said and shifted the argument from "if two players are equally talented and one is 6 and the other 6'3"  to "if the 6 foot player is more talented than the 6'3 player" ...

You created your own measuring stick and ignored my actual statement.     I used words such as "similar", "the same",  almost equal etc ... and then to just be difficult you throw out a statement like this

13 hours ago, Ravadak said:

You can have two players who appear to have equal talent, but no way  can ever have equal talent,  its projected talent. IF you get caught looking for size you tend to exaggerate a bigger players talent over someone 2 or 3 inches shorter.

In what world do you live that no two players can have near equal talent?    Or near equal projected talent?   You just say things like this for the sake of creating an argument. EDIT

 

13 hours ago, Ravadak said:

Simply saying you want someone 6 3 with talent over someone 6 .0 with talent is not near enough.  The size is not going to separate those two players its the projected talent that going to seperate those two players.  

EDIT

if player A is projected to be a 40g scorer and is 6 foot, and player B is projected to be 40g scorer and is 6'3, I would take the 6'3 player over the 6 foot player everytime. Nowhere did I say if "Player A is projected to be a 40g scorer and the bigger player a 35g I would still take the bigger player."     

Two players can have near or identical talent regardless of how wrong you are in your thinking.   And if two players have nearly identical projected talent then I would take the bigger player every time.

 

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Here's a suggestion guys. It's obvious that some of you have rubbed the other the wrong way. Just to the right of your name in the upper right hand corner is a small arrow with a drop down menu. You will find a feature that allows you to ignore certain members. Please use it, rather then make statements that you clearly both know are against rules of engagement on the forum. Personal attacks are NOT tolerated.  Comment on the post and not the poster.

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Martin Lapointe and Eric Crawford where both in Columbus to observe last night’s (Tues.) contest between the Blue Jackets and the Minnesota Wild, two teams have been connected to the Canadiens by trade rumors in the recent past.

The Wild had reported interest in acquiring Alex Galchenyuk over the summer while Max Pacioretty has been linked to the Blue Jackets over the past couple of weeks.

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These are all per Eklund, so you know, grain of salt & all...

"The Blues are the team to look for right now, and I'm hearing the sides are working on a VERY big deal. More on this in the morning."

He specifically mentions Galchenyuk (who i hope we hold on to).  Honestly I see the blues as being much more interested in Pacioretty.  Elite scorer, 2 more playoffs signed on sweetheart deal and they need scoring wingers.  


On Shea Weber...

Talked to a VERY connected source this morning who said the following:

"The Habs are talking up the idea that Shea Weber is signed and reasonable in comparison to Doughty, Trouba and even Karlsson...His name is definitely out there and MANY teams...Philly, Chicago, LA, Minnesota....are very interested. I have even heard the Sabres name mentioned...Does is happen? Not sure...it is a tough deal to make, but Weber is a game changer for a team in need..."

On Pacioretty...

The Canadiens will only accept a young center and a good pick I am told...There are a few teams kicking the tires....Still feel the Blues are the team to watch...but possibly LA or Dallas...

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

These are all per Eklund, so you know, grain of salt & all...

"The Blues are the team to look for right now, and I'm hearing the sides are working on a VERY big deal. More on this in the morning."

He specifically mentions Galchenyuk (who i hope we hold on to).  Honestly I see the blues as being much more interested in Pacioretty.  Elite scorer, 2 more playoffs signed on sweetheart deal and they need scoring wingers.  


On Shea Weber...

Talked to a VERY connected source this morning who said the following:

"The Habs are talking up the idea that Shea Weber is signed and reasonable in comparison to Doughty, Trouba and even Karlsson...His name is definitely out there and MANY teams...Philly, Chicago, LA, Minnesota....are very interested. I have even heard the Sabres name mentioned...Does is happen? Not sure...it is a tough deal to make, but Weber is a game changer for a team in need..."

On Pacioretty...

The Canadiens will only accept a young center and a good pick I am told...There are a few teams kicking the tires....Still feel the Blues are the team to watch...but possibly LA or Dallas...

The part about the Blues would choose Pacs over Chucky. The reasons you give are because Pacs is an elite scorer and on a good contract. Well than you don't think Chucky is an elite scorer and isn't his contract actually about the same and signed longer and he is younger. I am just looking at this from the Blues perspective. Yes Pacs is proven does also kill penalties, but in a shorter period of time will want a larger contract. I know most on here want to keep Chucky but for those same reasons I can see teams wanting him more or equally. 

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Just now, CaptWelly said:

The part about the Blues would choose Pacs over Chucky. The reasons you give are because Pacs is an elite scorer and on a good contract. Well than you don't think Chucky is an elite scorer and isn't his contract actually about the same and signed longer and he is younger. I am just looking at this from the Blues perspective. Yes Pacs is proven does also kill penalties, but in a shorter period of time will want a larger contract. I know most on here want to keep Chucky but for those same reasons I can see teams wanting him more or equally. 

Your points are valid but a couple of things:

1) Pacioretty is top 5 in the entire league the last 5 - 7 years.  Galchenyuk, despite some flashes of brilliance, has not shown the consistent production.

2) St Louis is in full on "win now" mode so even though it seems illogical, the idea of being able to 'walk away' from a player in a couple of years if they are ready to move on from him / rebuild - could be appealing.  Some GMs would like this, others would prefer the younger Galchenyuk with his extra year.

3) I think most of us would say AG has a lot more skills in his toolbox but Patches would probably fit better into the st. louis system. 

 

But I agree, its a toss up. I think the fact that Patches has been basically the most consistent goal scorer not named Ovechkin in his entire generation of players would make him a bigger draw for a team like St. Louis who needs to go all in and cant take risks on the potentially more talented, but possibly more risky player in AG.  My 2¢

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Your points are valid but a couple of things:

1) Pacioretty is top 5 in the entire league the last 5 - 7 years.  Galchenyuk, despite some flashes of brilliance, has not shown the consistent production.

2) St Louis is in full on "win now" mode so even though it seems illogical, the idea of being able to 'walk away' from a player in a couple of years if they are ready to move on from him / rebuild - could be appealing.  Some GMs would like this, others would prefer the younger Galchenyuk with his extra year.

3) I think most of us would say AG has a lot more skills in his toolbox but Patches would probably fit better into the st. louis system. 

 

But I agree, its a toss up. I think the fact that Patches has been basically the most consistent goal scorer not named Ovechkin in his entire generation of players would make him a bigger draw for a team like St. Louis who needs to go all in and cant take risks on the potentially more talented, but possibly more risky player in AG.  My 2¢

If Blues are in win now mode, they take Patches over AG.   Proven scorer vs struggling potential.    Patches in their eyes would be the safe bet and immediate help .. that perhaps with a good center (Schenn/Stastny) would propel them deep into the playoffs.    The only question is what are they willing to give up for him.

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I think the trades we make for MP and AG are also very different. Both players are still very good players, in fact top 6 players on most if not all teams. But Pacioretty is getting on in years and the main issue with him is that it's not a fantastic idea for us to be signing him to a long-term big money deal when we're not in a position to be competitive in the short term. We're really dealing MP to be able to get younger and cheaper and change our Cup window. In Chucky's case, he's still young. He's been around for quite a while, but that's because he started in the NHL as an 18-year old. So he can be a very useful player for another 5-7 years. You don't trade players like that in their prime unless you're getting an equally good player in their prime back. You'd consider trading him to get a top line center or a top pairing D man because of a need, but you're not looking to deal AG for prospects and picks, that just doesn't make much sense. So if I look at a team like the Blues, they probably want the more established sure thing in Pacioretty, but it also makes much more sense for us to find a deal with them for Pacioretty that makes more sense for both teams. I'd be fine with trading MP for a package that includes Thomas, another prospect, and a 1st round pick. But I would want more of a sure thing to trade AG away. Otherwise, why not just keep AG?

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5 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

The Fourth Period's David Pagnotta said that Jordie Benn, Joe Morrow and David Schlemko are available.

I could see some interest in Benn but the other 2?   Maybe a team like NJ, where he played very well actually, looks at getting Schlemko back. 

 

of course our chance of a higher draft pick goes down if we trade those guys... :P

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14 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I could see some interest in Benn but the other 2?   Maybe a team like NJ, where he played very well actually, looks at getting Schlemko back. 

 

of course our chance of a higher draft pick goes down if we trade those guys... :P

I'm sure MB can find some other unwanted depth guys to add to our roster in their place. Have confidence in your GM to do what he's good at!

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42 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm sure MB can find some other unwanted depth guys to add to our roster in their place. Have confidence in your GM to do what he's good at!

Tanks for the memories MB :)

On another note,  there is speculation that Garth Snow is going to do everything humanly possibly to resign John Tavares.   He may try adding players with Term at the deadline. Enter Max Pacioretty:  One year left, premiere left wing - MP/JT would be a deadly duo - and he'd be an isles marketing dream as an (almost) hometown boy.  Bet you he'd resign cheaper there too - wasnt he an isle fan growing up?

Would Snow be dumb enough to do  Max Pacioretty + Shaw  for Barzal?  

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According to P. LeBrun Marc Bergevin has updated his "untouchables" list to include 2 more player.  its now Carey Price, Shea Weber, Victor Mete and Jonathan Drouin.  Seems silly to me - first of all because Weber is exactly the type of guy we should be trying to move while he still has value - but also because unless you have  a player like Connor McDavid or a young Sidney Crosby, NO ONE should be untouchable.    The only true untouchable on a team should be a guy who is peerless in the league.  But even then, if you get a haul like Quebec got for Lindros, even that guy may not be untouchable. 

Sure, there are plenty of guys you wouldnt move unless you got higher than fair market value for them - on our team, a guy like Danault who is super versatile, young and dependable I would consider more or less a "core" guy.  I wouldnt look to shop him and frankly it would be extremely unlikely id have any interest in trading him, but if someone offered me a younger more skilled player?  You bet Id move him. 

MB just doesnt seem to understand what he's doing. Maybe its because its just so hard. 

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