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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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4 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Wholeheartedly agree that we would need to add more.  Tavares makes us way better but we are still barely a playoff team.  The defense is still a mess.  But I disagree about making another hole by trading Pacioretty or Galchenyuk (the former being my preference of course).   Pacioretty/Drouin/Galchenyuk/Lehkonen/Hudon - these are all top 6 LW. We can afford to lose one or even 2.    What Bergevin needs to figure out is how to trade players who play one position and gain them from another. Not a RHD for another RHD or a LW for a LW.  We need to turn our strong areas into players in our weak areas.

Maybe we can afford losing two LWs but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with Lehkonen/Hudon and Scherbak as our 2nd line wingers, unless they're going to make huge strides next season. They're still young and only start to find their game, but they've also yet to crack 30 points.

Since both Bergevin and Julien made it abundantly clear that Galchenyuk won't be playing center in Montreal, it probably makes sense to trade both Pacioretty AND Galchenyuk to acquire a 2nd line center and LHD – if we don't get lucky and get to draft Dahlin of course.

 

 

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40 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Maybe we can afford losing two LWs but I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with Lehkonen/Hudon and Scherbak as our 2nd line wingers, unless they're going to make huge strides next season. They're still young and only start to find their game, but they've also yet to crack 30 points.

Since both Bergevin and Julien made it abundantly clear that Galchenyuk won't be playing center in Montreal, it probably makes sense to trade both Pacioretty AND Galchenyuk to acquire a 2nd line center and LHD – if we don't get lucky and get to draft Dahlin of course.

Yeah, I think we're mostly on the same page but a lot of it hinges on allowing Galchenyuk to play C behind Tavares (or, as you said, flipping AG for a centre, which ideally i wouldnt want to do personally).  Julien has said AG has made great strides in his defensive game and you would have JT and PD as your #1 and 3 centres who could handle solid defensive assignements, so use an exploitation line of Hudon/Galchenyuk/Sherbak as your offense-only secondary scoring line.

Drouin - Tavares - Gallagher
Hudon - Galchenyuk - Scherbak
Lehkonen - Danault - Shaw


Thats a far bit better than we have now & we could trade Pacioretty for that top pairing DMan we need so desperately.

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17 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

2. Barzal is better than any player on our team, but outside of that, I think the Habs have a better roster than the Isles. 

3. No, we're still not a top 5 team in the league with JT, but we're a lot closer... and as I said, it's easy to say that TB and Tor and Pit and Bos and so on give him a better chance at a Cup than us. But, is he really going to go somewhere where he's competing with Matthews or Crosby/Malkin or Stamkos or Bergeron for ice time? Is he getting a full complement of PP time in those cities? Is he getting the best linemates? Not sure he is. And not everywhere is going to have the cap room or the owner's pockets or the will to pay him 10-15M a season. On paper, he's a great fit here, both for him and the team.

Honestly it sounds a lot like the same old story. I dont see a player outside Gallagher who warrants any optimism right now. Even Pacioretty probably hurt his trade value over the recent weeks. There are only 2 teams which have scored fewer goals than us and even a number 1 center can only play on one line. We shouldnt delude ourselves in thinking that our players are better than they are. I dont mind losing right now. Its about how you lose the games. After the Galchenyuk hattrick I thought it would be nice to lose but putting up points by our young guys so we have at least something promising for the future. That has been eradicated over the last few games again. Unfortunatly I dont think MB has the ability to proper evaluate talent.

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Mario Langlois discussed the topic of personnel changes on 98.5 FM Sports and made a very interesting statement. According to him, Blainville-Boisbriand's Armada coach Joel Bouchard could be hired as soon as his team finishes their season in the QMJHL. However, he goes on to say that no details can really be talked about on the subject since Bouchard's priority is his team's playoff run.

On the other hand, he believes that the stars are aligned for Bouchard to join the Canadiens and that the only thing that could prevent such an agreement would be Bouchard's refusal of a position. 

It should be noted that Langlois did not reveal Bouchard's possible specific position with the Canadiens, but Bouchard has proven he can motivate and get along with young players in the Q, so it would be a good fit for the AHL.

 

 
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6 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Mario Langlois discussed the topic of personnel changes on 98.5 FM Sports and made a very interesting statement. According to him, Blainville-Boisbriand's Armada coach Joel Bouchard could be hired as soon as his team finishes their season in the QMJHL. However, he goes on to say that no details can really be talked about on the subject since Bouchard's priority is his team's playoff run.

On the other hand, he believes that the stars are aligned for Bouchard to join the Canadiens and that the only thing that could prevent such an agreement would be Bouchard's refusal of a position. 

It should be noted that Langlois did not reveal Bouchard's possible specific position with the Canadiens, but Bouchard has proven he can motivate and get along with young players in the Q, so it would be a good fit for the AHL.

 

 

There were also rumors Daigneault was going to be let go (which means promoted to a non-coaching position probably, since we can't possibly fire our friends) at season's end. Bouchard's an ex-D man, so maybe they see him as the next D coach.

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On 3/20/2018 at 1:19 PM, jennifer_rocket said:

Which is maybe what this team needs. I don't mind being bad next season if that's the plan. Just giving young guys a ton of development time. Dealing away Pacioretty this summer. Maybe trying to unload Weber as well.

This is pretty much exactly where I'm at.  I get what people are saying about how adding Tavares would make us better by leaps and bounds, and I certainly agree with that, but it won't be enough to make us into a contender.  Maaaaaaybe if we make good on our 8% chance or whatever it is and win the lottery we can start looking that way, but beyond that I just don't see it as being enough to realistically compete for the cup.  The writing has been on the wall since the day that we traded Subban, and IMO Bergevin's subsequent moves have frittered away any last chances our once-promising core had of taking home the trophy.

If they fire Bergevin and make a real investment in playing our young players (ideally trading some of our vets to add some good ones) then that's a team that I'm willing to watch next year.  Sure their record might be just as bad as it is now, but I'm willing to tune in to a losing effort as long as it feels like just that - an effort.  If we added Tavares I'm sure that I'd watch to start the year just to see how he and the team do, but if we started to see another losing season I don't think it would hold my interest for very long.

This team really just needs a direction, even if that direction is "up, from a very low starting point".  

 

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5 minutes ago, Manatee-X said:

This is pretty much exactly where I'm at.  I get what people are saying about how adding Tavares would make us better by leaps and bounds, and I certainly agree with that, but it won't be enough to make us into a contender.  Maaaaaaybe if we make good on our 8% chance or whatever it is and win the lottery we can start looking that way, but beyond that I just don't see it as being enough to realistically compete for the cup.  The writing has been on the wall since the day that we traded Subban, and IMO Bergevin's subsequent moves have frittered away any last chances our once-promising core had of taking home the trophy.

Im torn because on the one hand I 100% agree with you and we've seen with the Subban for Weber debacle that even if Bergevin makes a big move he doesnt seem to understand the importance of following that move up.   "we're giving up youth and talent to 'win now'"  but then we still have holes all over our roster that he doesnt address.  How does that help you "win now?"

SO, if we somehow signed Tavares, i have zero faith he'll then address our other holes.  I believe we have the necessary ingredients to actually do that - we have a zillion quality LW and so filling our LHD hole is entirely possible.  I think AG would be absolutely fine in a #2C role and i think most other positions would sort themselves out, we have solid winger, RHD and bottom 6 depth. 

But will MB do it?  I have no faith. 

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We're not going to be a top 3-5 team just by adding Tavares, but there is a fine line between being 6th last in the league and being able to win a playoff series or two. We're not perennially sunk like Arizona because of a lack of a budget.

That said, Jack Hughes is a small forward but expected (currently) to be the #1 overall in 2019, and he's projected to be a #1 center. Alexis Lafreniere is setting all kinds of records in the Q and is a possible #1 overall in 2020... he's a LW, but I'm sure the Habs would love to have a homegrown star.

I'm not too concerned about where we finish and pick in the next couple of years... if we're good, so be it. See where it gets you. If you're bad like this year, then you go all out for a tank in that season and try to get the best pick. But no sense going into a season hoping to lose all the games.

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I'm not sure that anybody would be going into a season hoping to lose, it's more that I'd be happy to go into a season where I could accept that they may lose (provided that they made some moves to start going in the right direction).  A team like Vegas shows that you can go into a season with a bunch of young guys and no real stars and still have a shot at playing well.  Granted, dozens of other teams have shown that you can go into a season with similar make-ups and completely crash and burn :P.  Again, to steal a quote from the Leafs (yes, it has come to this), "it's all about the process".

And yes, there is more than one way to do this.  Like Jed said, if we get Tavares AND make some shrewd moves to fill our holes at D AND make some sensible lineup moves with respect to a #2 centre then I'd also consider that to be a team moving in the right direction.  I don't think that we have to blow everything up, I just don't think that it's very likely (especially with our current management) that they can make any progress without blowing it up and starting again with a young roster. 

The one thing that I don't want to do is what we seem to be currently doing - chalking our current state of affairs up to "a bad year" and continuing on doing the same things as before.  With this mindset, adding Tavares alone won't be nearly enough to put us in contention. 

 

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Eklund suggesting that NYI will be pushing hard to keep Tavares but to do so they will need to land a huge name defensman or goalie.  

It seems ludicrous but would they consider with Weber or Price for Barzal?  A sane Gm would hangup the phone but we're talking about Garth Snow here...

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Eklund suggesting that NYI will be pushing hard to keep Tavares but to do so they will need to land a huge name defensman or goalie.  

It seems ludicrous but would they consider with Weber or Price for Barzal?  A sane Gm would hangup the phone but we're talking about Garth Snow here...

 

At this point, Barzal has more value than Tavares, being younger and on a cheaper deal. If you're picking a guy for one season maybe you go Tavares. But otherwise Barzal is a better bet long-term.

Last year, I proposed a trade for Barzal. At the start of this year (maybe a quarter way in), I suggested Price for Barzal straight up. At this point, I think it would be odd for Snow to deal the better asset (Barzal) to find a guy to keep the great player who is a less good asset (Tavares). Agreed with you that Snow is not bright though, so maybe there's hope. Sadly, I'm not sure Mb would pull the trigger on that deal though.

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Eklund suggesting that NYI will be pushing hard to keep Tavares but to do so they will need to land a huge name defensman or goalie.  

It seems ludicrous but would they consider with Weber or Price for Barzal?  A sane Gm would hangup the phone but we're talking about Garth Snow here...

 

I made that exact suggestion a while back. Id happily give them both for barzal. 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

At this point, Barzal has more value than Tavares, being younger and on a cheaper deal. If you're picking a guy for one season maybe you go Tavares. But otherwise Barzal is a better bet long-term.

Last year, I proposed a trade for Barzal. At the start of this year (maybe a quarter way in), I suggested Price for Barzal straight up. At this point, I think it would be odd for Snow to deal the better asset (Barzal) to find a guy to keep the great player who is a less good asset (Tavares). Agreed with you that Snow is not bright though, so maybe there's hope. Sadly, I'm not sure Mb would pull the trigger on that deal though.

Oh i totally agree. But we're talking about Garth Snow here.  I think that he has put so much effort into Tavares as the 'franchise' that he will do anything and everything to keep him. If that means he has to get Carey Price to do so & lose arguably a better player than JT (long-term at least) then he just might.  

But like you, i dont even know if MB would do Barzal for Weber straight up, which is almost criminal. 

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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Oh i totally agree. But we're talking about Garth Snow here.  I think that he has put so much effort into Tavares as the 'franchise' that he will do anything and everything to keep him. If that means he has to get Carey Price to do so & lose arguably a better player than JT (long-term at least) then he just might.  

But like you, i dont even know if MB would do Barzal for Weber straight up, which is almost criminal. 

You have GM's who have proven to be shrewd and who capitalize on other teams when they're in tough spots and rake other GM's for talent. I think of Shero, Nill, Rutherford, Poile, Yzerman, etc. Then you have a group that seems to be living in the past, like Bergevin, Snow, and Chiarelli, who are probably three of the weakest GM's in the league. But yes, absolutely frustrating that we haven't been able to take advantage of Snow more than we have... if we don't think we can grab Tavares (and you have to believe MB at least has an idea of whether he's going to hit market or not via Brisson), then the next best plan is to try and flip an aging star to the Isles and get them to overpay in a trade to try and re-sign Tavares themselves. Price and Weber and to a lesser degree Pacioretty seem like guys who might fit that bill, I agree. I'm just not sure that even Snow is dumb enough to move Barzal now. A year ago, when he hadn't proven himself yet, yes. But I think Snow looks at the stats and sees a guy who is already scoring and he likes that. Where he's more likely to undervalue a guy is a player who projects well but hasn't brought it consistently at an NHL level yet.

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Interesting stuff coming out in the past 24 hours...

- Pierre Lebrun says he expects about 20 teams to be in on Tavares, including the Habs. He feels like Vegas will make a strong push after having gone after Karlsson, and he adds that Nevada doesn't have state income tax (like I've posted before, this is a huge problem with the NHL's salary cap allowing teams like Vegas to have a huge competitive advantage over us with respect to free agents). He also suggests San Jose and Stl could be key bidders.

- LeBrun also confirms Florida made a big push for Pacioretty at the deadline, but thinks that they may have balked at giving up Borgstrom. He says you would have to assume that was part of Bergevin's ask. Like most of the other media, LeBrun confirms there is a big market for Pacioretty, that most GM's see him as likely to revert to 30-goal form next year, and that Bergevin has an asset for which he should be able to get a big return.

- Gord Miller states that the Habs are the #1 contender for Tavares. He says that unlike a lot of other teams that would have to dump salary to make Tavares a top offer, the Habs already have ample cap space. He adds that Tavares as a person has always been big on the history of the game and loves playing games in Original 6 cities. He also states that Tavares's preference would be to play in Canada or for an Original 6 team. Miller says that while the Rangers would also have the cap space (and Original 6 title) to make an offer and that signing with the Rags would mean JT wouldn't have to relocate, he doesn't see as much of a fit there. He adds that JT is friends with Price and Weber from the Olympics and that those two players could be a huge factor in convincing him to come to Montreal. So in Miller's view, we're the team to beat when it comes to JT.

 

... I know we're all hesitant to buy into this when we've been let down by free agency so often in the past. We're up against high taxes and a meh GM. But we have highly-respected players, with Weber and Price both being lauded by fellow NHLers in the recent players' poll, we have a Cup-winning respected coach, and if JT really does care about hockey history and playing in front of Canadian fans who get into the game, then maybe just maybe we are a fit. I think it's still a longshot, in that I don't think any one team has got more than a 20% chance of signing JT, simply because of the wide number of options he will have. But I honestly do believe we're going to be one of the 3-4 teams with the best shot at grabbing him.

Look at the other Canadian teams: Vancouver is further away from a Cup than us, as is Ottawa. Edmonton is in the same boat as us, but despite having McDavid, they have less stellar goaltending and they don't have the Weber/Price factor that might entice JT. Calgary has fared a tad better than us or Edm this year, but they have their own arena issues, which Tavares might be trying to escape if he's leaving the Isles. Winnipeg and Toronto are both well closer to a Cup than us, but if JT goes there, he's competing with players who are as good as him for #1C ice time and wingers. If he comes here, he's getting the best wingers, the most ice time, and 1st PP unit time.

So what about the rest of the Original 6? The Rags are in a bigger re-build than us, as is Detroit. Boston would be an option, but again, he'd be competing with Bergeron for the 1C role. Ditto in Chicago with Jonathan Toews being there, and Chicago seems like they might be on the verge of selling all their assets in a year, the way the Rangers did this year. Maybe JT sees Toews or Keith as players he'd like to play with too, but I don't see those players as being any more favorable to him than Weber and Price, and Toews plays the same position as him, so wouldn't be a guy he's on ice with anyways.

And the rest? Who gives him a good shot at a Cup, has the cap space, AND has an opening for a 1C? Who has stability at ownership and no questions about where they're going to play? The list isn't long. There will be teams that can make cap space, but I'd be hard-pressed to come up with 5 teams that are a better fit than us.

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9 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Wonder if the Habs could get anything good from Washington so they can free up cap space to sign Carlson. Burakvosky maybe? Or maybe Vrana + Orpik as a salary dump.

Bob McKenzie suggested it would take 7-8M a season to re-sign Carlson and that the Caps would need to shed salary to make it happen. As it stands, they're estimated to have 11M in room left right now, but with the need to add a back-up goalie, two more D men in addition to Carlson, and 3-4 more depth forwards. In short, they're not signing Carlson for 7-8M and then fitting 6-7 more players in for 3-4M. So yeah, they're going to have to trade if they want to make space. I don't see them parting with Burakovsky, primarily because he's young, he's skilled, and he doesn't really free up that much cap space. They're frankly going to have to move one of the players making 5M or more, and I don't see that being Ovechkin or Kuznetsov. Orlov, Niskanen, and Oshie are on pretty unfriendly long-term deals for what they're worth, so in my view, there are only two interesting possibilities:

1. The trade Backstrom, who is still a useful player, albeit he's 30 already. But he's only got two more years left at 6.7M So he could be a trade target for someone, I just don't think he really fits our needs... unless we know for sure we can win in the next two years, which I'm not of the belief we can, I don't see the point in trading Washington younger, cheaper talent to Was for Backstrom (kind of backwards) and I don't see Was trading him as a salary dump when someone will give them good assets in return.

2. The second is much more interesting, which is one of the things you mentioned... taking on Orpik as a salary dump. Orpik only has one more year left at 5.5M. He's a pretty useless asset, but if you can take on the 5.5M and don't expect to win next year, then you do it and you wriggle an asset out of Washington in exchange for helping them get Carlson under the cap. Is Vrana the guy I ask for? Probably not, because he's a young left winger... we have a decent number of skilled young wingers already, with Hudon, Drouin, Galchenyuk, Lehkonen, Scherbak, etc. The problem is that outside of Vrana, the Caps don't have many interesting prospects. Lucas Johansen is probably the most intriguing guy, a former 1st round pick and left-handed D man. So I might look at something like a 6th round pick for Orpik + Johansen. Or you might just want to target a draft choice and go 7th round pick for Orpik and a 2nd. Is that enough to make it worth it? Maybe we can try to send someone like Schlemko back the other way. Don't know... in the end, it depends on whether you have anything else to spend the cap money on, but there's no point in wasting it like we did this year.

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Bob McKenzie says his gut feeling is that Tavares hasn't liked the way the season went and the way things are trending in Long Island and that he feels Tavares will got to market to see what else he can get elsewhere. Again, doesn't mean he will move, but McKenzie feels he's open to leaving the Islanders. Elliotte Friedmann also states that he doesn't think this is like the Stamkos situation, where Stamkos really wanted to stay in Tampa for the right money and was part of a winning team. In JT's case, he's been part of a losing organization for years and this might be his one chance to get out.

So a lot of the big pundits in the media are adding their names to the theory Tavares is serious about at least exploring the possibility of moving on. And everyone also seems to think the Habs will be one of the teams with the biggest offers come summer time...

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30 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Bob McKenzie says his gut feeling is that Tavares hasn't liked the way the season went and the way things are trending in Long Island and that he feels Tavares will got to market to see what else he can get elsewhere. Again, doesn't mean he will move, but McKenzie feels he's open to leaving the Islanders. Elliotte Friedmann also states that he doesn't think this is like the Stamkos situation, where Stamkos really wanted to stay in Tampa for the right money and was part of a winning team. In JT's case, he's been part of a losing organization for years and this might be his one chance to get out.

So a lot of the big pundits in the media are adding their names to the theory Tavares is serious about at least exploring the possibility of moving on. And everyone also seems to think the Habs will be one of the teams with the biggest offers come summer time...

Yeah thats definitely the sense ive gotten from his replies and body language all season long.

Obviously you never know because we arent privy to non-media info but it sure seems like this is a guy who is not happy in his current situation. 

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11 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah thats definitely the sense ive gotten from his replies and body language all season long.

Obviously you never know because we arent privy to non-media info but it sure seems like this is a guy who is not happy in his current situation. 

Hard to imagine he's happy... questions about ownership and management. No true home venue in place for the next few years with likely shuttling back and forth between two temporary arenas in the meantime. Dealing away Hamonic for a future asset. Failure to acquire help-now assets at the deadline. Another year of not making the playoffs.

Now, that's not to say we would do better at some of those. But if you believe the rumors that Tavares wants to play in a big market and prefers to play for a Canadian team or Original 6 team. And if money is important to him to some degree. And if being the #1 C is a factor. And if playing with guys like Weber and Carey is a positive... well then we're one of the few teams that meets those criteria.

The other thing, which we've mentioned before, that makes us different from the Isles is that the Islanders biggest problem is their lack of a #1 goalie. We have that. Our biggest problem is the lack of a #1 center. Chances are, if the Isles had Carey or Holtby or so on playing goal for them, Tavares would be much more inclined to stay. So when evaluating how he would do here, JT is looking at what Habs + Tavares would be vs. Isles with Tavares. It's not Habs as is vs. Isles as is. It's not Habs plus Tavares vs. Isles plus Carey. So if you think the Habs and Isles are pretty even steven right now, then Habs plus Tavares is better than his current situation, where he'd be staying and still not have a #1 goalie.

You also have to look at what's around in NY... they've got long-term deals for 5+M with Boychuk and Ladd, 3.5M long-term with Clutterbuck, and they're going to have to fill half their roster still going into next season (they've got 8 forwards, 3 D men, and 1 back-up goalie signed and that's it). So despite Barzal and Beauvillier and Ho Sang, I'm not seeing an immediate fix there and I'm not seeing a contender in the next 5 years. Are the Habs one? They'd have to do more on top of just Tavares to get there, but I think they're closer than the Isles are in the next 3-5 years. Hard to know where we rank on the list of potential destinations, but the first step is getting him out of NY and open to moving on, and that sounds like it's becoming more and more likely as time goes by.

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According to Adrian Dater, a legit reporter who covers the Avs in Denver, he said his #1 prediction for the off-season is that Paul Stastny signs with the Habs. He said that he has insider information suggesting this will happen.

Now Stastny is 32 already. He's not a #1C, and it would be stupid to over-spend or give too much term to a player like this. BUT, if you can sign Stastny AND Tavares, then you've suddenly turned a team weakness into a strength, because you then have a legit #1 and a guy who's at least an option as a 2C. He's not the best choice, but again, if you can get him for 3 years at 4.5-5M a season, for example, that'd be a reasonable deal. Not sure what he's looking for on a new contract, however, and I wouldn't overpay for him a la Alzner.

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5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

According to Adrian Dater, a legit reporter who covers the Avs in Denver, he said his #1 prediction for the off-season is that Paul Stastny signs with the Habs. He said that he has insider information suggesting this will happen.

Now Stastny is 32 already. He's not a #1C, and it would be stupid to over-spend or give too much term to a player like this. BUT, if you can sign Stastny AND Tavares, then you've suddenly turned a team weakness into a strength, because you then have a legit #1 and a guy who's at least an option as a 2C. He's not the best choice, but again, if you can get him for 3 years at 4.5-5M a season, for example, that'd be a reasonable deal. Not sure what he's looking for on a new contract, however, and I wouldn't overpay for him a la Alzner.

agreed.   Tavares - Stastny-Danault- DLR (or Pleks, or BigMac etc) is so much better than anything we've had for like... 20 years id be ecstatic. 

Unfortunately, since its MB, I could totally see  Stastny - Plekanec - Danault - DLR which is pretty much status quo. 

 

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If I'm Montreal with all the cap space I'm all in on Tavares. If not I'm alright with Stastny and Bozak as centers.A bit of luck on the draft pick, a great year from price and guess what we are contenders again. Also a little tweeking with the 3rd and 4th lines. Maybe I'm just dreaming but I  think It's possible.

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41 minutes ago, xxdocxx said:

If I'm Montreal with all the cap space I'm all in on Tavares. If not I'm alright with Stastny and Bozak as centers.A bit of luck on the draft pick, a great year from price and guess what we are contenders again. Also a little tweeking with the 3rd and 4th lines. Maybe I'm just dreaming but I  think It's possible.

Agreed that you take your shot at JT. If you don't get JT though, I don't see the point in going in on Stastny and Bozak. Those are supporting players as veterans whom you use to go for a Cup. Without JT, we're not there. I'd rather play the young guys and go after prospects via trade/draft.

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