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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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3 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

For people who follow potential draft picks better than me: how NHL ready is Dahlin supposed to be? I can't think of many players who came into the league and were immediately ready to be top-pairing dmen at 18?

To recap what others have said: let's assume he is ready for that top pairing, then you can fill out that defense okay (Weber-Dahlin, Petry-Mete, Juulsen-Benn or something). If up-front you could get JT and manage to sign a servicable #2 center; and Price can return to form and stay healthy - that team actually has a real shot at the cup. They're probably not the favorites, the window is small, and the team is going to have some pain in a couple years as older players regress and contracts come up. But you can at least argue they have a real shot for the next couple of seasons.

From what i understand he's NHL ready.  Is he ready to be a 1st pairing guy? tough to say.  Paired next to Weber, maybe.  With Petry and Mete taking some tough minutes too - i think its doable.    On a team that lacks a steady partner for him to play with, its tough to say how he'd respond.

In terms of past history?
Dmen who played at 18 and had an impact:

- Phil Housley - 66 points
- Bobby Orr - 41 points
- Aaron Ekblad - 39 points

Not many others had a huge impact in their first season at age 18.   Jim Benning, Doug Bodger and our very own Petr Svoboda all had 31 points as 18 year old rookies. Im not sure how many of those were as 1st pairing guys though.  

 

 Other guys like Scott Stevens, Noah Nahifin, Roman Hamrlik, Bogosian, etc did play full seasons at 18 but not many were impact guys.  To put it into perspective though, in the history of the nhl only 23 guys - ever - have played more than 40 games on defense in their 18 year old season. 

By all accounts Dahlin is a potential generational talent (ive heard several scouts call him McDavid of the blueline) so its entirely possible he can be the 24th but its still a question mark. 

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16 minutes ago, maas_art said:

From what i understand he's NHL ready.  Is he ready to be a 1st pairing guy? tough to say.  Paired next to Weber, maybe.  With Petry and Mete taking some tough minutes too - i think its doable.    On a team that lacks a steady partner for him to play with, its tough to say how he'd respond.

In terms of past history?
Dmen who played at 18 and had an impact:

- Phil Housley - 66 points
- Bobby Orr - 41 points
- Aaron Ekblad - 39 points

Not many others had a huge impact in their first season at age 18.   Jim Benning, Doug Bodger and our very own Petr Svoboda all had 31 points as 18 year old rookies. Im not sure how many of those were as 1st pairing guys though.  

 

 Other guys like Scott Stevens, Noah Nahifin, Roman Hamrlik, Bogosian, etc did play full seasons at 18 but not many were impact guys.  To put it into perspective though, in the history of the nhl only 23 guys - ever - have played more than 40 games on defense in their 18 year old season. 

By all accounts Dahlin is a potential generational talent (ive heard several scouts call him McDavid of the blueline) so its entirely possible he can be the 24th but its still a question mark. 

Another way to look at it is to think of how many 1st overall d men have been chosen.... its been a while.

My understanding is that there is no doubt he is nhl ready. I think he can have an impact playing with Weber

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18 hours ago, jeff33 said:

I was going to make a post on this.

You pointed out someof the exact things I meant to....straight up? Carey lost me as a fan this year. I think he played like a suck. He had some moments this year which were absolutely contempt for his team

I think we lost rads and markov and right fromday 1 he was like oh my god what did you idiots just do to this team, we stink!   and I gotta say, I had the same reaction. the difference is I dont get paid 10mill a year to care about how the habs do. 

He played like a suck, max played like a suck, and they can both take a hike as far as I am concerned. Id rather have draft picks. 

I'll differ on Pacioretty. I think Price's body language suggested his focus or concentration wasn't up to snuff every night, be it because of effort or distractions outside the rink or contempt for his GM/roster. Not sure. Only he knows.

With Pacioretty, I actually don't doubt his will to win. I think he does care and wants to succeed. In his case, I think he's simply wilted under the pressure of being the captain and having a team that just couldn't find answers. He gave countless interviews about how he's felt that weight. So to me, Pacioretty was giving the effort, I just think he had trouble with the pressure of being the captain of a losing team in an unforgiving market.

 

4 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

For people who follow potential draft picks better than me: how NHL ready is Dahlin supposed to be? I can't think of many players who came into the league and were immediately ready to be top-pairing dmen at 18?

To recap what others have said: let's assume he is ready for that top pairing, then you can fill out that defense okay (Weber-Dahlin, Petry-Mete, Juulsen-Benn or something). If up-front you could get JT and manage to sign a servicable #2 center; and Price can return to form and stay healthy - that team actually has a real shot at the cup. They're probably not the favorites, the window is small, and the team is going to have some pain in a couple years as older players regress and contracts come up. But you can at least argue they have a real shot for the next couple of seasons.

 

I've seen him play a bit, but it's hard to judge how his game will translate into the NHL. I'll say this though... he's a consensus #1 across the board and unlike some years, there doesn't seem to be much debate among scouts and pundits that he's the best prospect. I've heard people say he's like a mixture of Nik Lidstrom and Erik Karlsson. I've heard scouts say he's better for his age than Lidstrom was at this age, and even Lidstrom himself has said this, whether it's true or not. I don't doubt he'd be able to make the NHL next year. I'm not sure whether he'll be able to step into a top pairing role, and I have my doubts there. He was still playing behind the older players on the Swedish national team, so he wasn't a dominant star at that level. But he's likely miles ahead of anyone else we have on the left side going into next year and I think his floor as a player is that he'll be a top 3 defenceman. So he's as close to a sure thing as you're going to see coming out of a draft.

 

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On 10/04/2018 at 6:26 PM, BigTed3 said:

I'll differ on Pacioretty. I think Price's body language suggested his focus or concentration wasn't up to snuff every night, be it because of effort or distractions outside the rink or contempt for his GM/roster. Not sure. Only he knows.

With Pacioretty, I actually don't doubt his will to win. I think he does care and wants to succeed. In his case, I think he's simply wilted under the pressure of being the captain and having a team that just couldn't find answers. He gave countless interviews about how he's felt that weight. So to me, Pacioretty was giving the effort, I just think he had trouble with the pressure of being the captain of a losing team in an unforgiving market.

 

 

 

I know you listen to a lot of 690, so Im going to reference chris nilan as to what I think.  its time to hustle back and he goes off for a change. its time to battle in the corners or in front of the net and hes a body length away doing a poke check. 

patch was never a real physical presence, but he has over the years turned into butter soft floater out there, and this year he took it to level 10. theres a reason no one wants to give us the moon for him. we are going to have to settle for 1 good asset or 2 medium ones. and my big fear is MB wont do it for anything but a huge haul and we are going to end up getting nothing for him or god forbid re-signing him.

 

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The Canadiens GM has indeed confirmed that he was interested in center Kyle Turris before he was finally traded from the Ottawa Senators to the Nashville Predators in the huge trade that involved Matt Duchene.

Marc Bergevin added that he was going to do everything in his power to get a #1 center this summer.

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2 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

The Canadiens GM has indeed confirmed that he was interested in center Kyle Turris before he was finally traded from the Ottawa Senators to the Nashville Predators in the huge trade that involved Matt Duchene.

Marc Bergevin added that he was going to do everything in his power to get a #1 center this summer.

Big talk from a powerless boob.

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7 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

The Canadiens GM has indeed confirmed that he was interested in center Kyle Turris before he was finally traded from the Ottawa Senators to the Nashville Predators in the huge trade that involved Matt Duchene.

Marc Bergevin added that he was going to do everything in his power to get a #1 center this summer.

:4224:

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8 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

The Canadiens GM has indeed confirmed that he was interested in center Kyle Turris before he was finally traded from the Ottawa Senators to the Nashville Predators in the huge trade that involved Matt Duchene.

Marc Bergevin added that he was going to do everything in his power to get a #1 center this summer.

but trades are hard ...

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8 hours ago, jeff33 said:

I know you listen to a lot of 690, so Im going to reference chris nilan as to what I think.  its time to hustle back and he goes off for a change. its time to battle in the corners or in front of the net and hes a body length away doing a poke check. 

patch was never a real physical presence, but he has over the years turned into butter soft floater out there, and this year he took it to level 10. theres a reason no one wants to give us the moon for him. we are going to have to settle for 1 good asset or 2 medium ones. and my big fear is MB wont do it for anything but a huge haul and we are going to end up getting nothing for him or god forbid re-signing him.

 

I've been saying the same thing all year. He's not a leader/captain.

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49 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

 

Marc Bergevin added that he was going to do everything in his power to get a #1 center this summer.

Hes going to sign a 4 th line UFA C from the leafs ( Plekanec ) and turn him into the # 1 C in Montreal because he ;s got a good attitude

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52 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Bergevin added that he was going to do everything in his power to get a #1 center this summer.

Wait, so he's admitting that he didnt do "everything in his power" to try to get one last year or the year before  - or basically any time since he's been here?  We havent had anyone you could even argue was a true #1 since Koivu in his prime. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Wait, so he's admitting that he didnt do "everything in his power" to try to get one last year or the year before  - or basically any time since he's been here?  We havent had anyone you could even argue was a true #1 since Koivu in his prime. 

Even if we only look at his tenure, it's been six years for crying out lout. Now you see the urgency, Marc?

He certainly did everything in his power to keep Galchenyuk from becoming a center though.

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8 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Even if we only look at his tenure, it's been six years for crying out lout. Now you see the urgency, Marc?

He certainly did everything in his power to keep Galchenyuk from becoming a center though.

Yeah, it's funny. He was gifted a potential top-six center when he walked onto the job. Then he, seemingly, spent years trying to prevent that player from realizing his potential in a position we desperately needed someone to develop into. Watch him bring back Plekanec this Summer, fail to acquire any other centers, and tell us we're better down the middle because of Pleaknec's Toronto playoff experience and Drouin's development.

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2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Watch him bring back Plekanec this Summer, fail to acquire any other centers, and tell us we're better down the middle because of Pleaknec's Toronto playoff experience and Drouin's development.

This would be funny if it wasnt true. :(

Marc Bergevin's plan A:   Tavares - Stastny - Danault - Plekanec

Marc Bergevin's plan B:  Statsny - Plekanec - Danault - DLR     

 

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42 minutes ago, maas_art said:

This would be funny if it wasnt true. :(

Marc Bergevin's plan A:   Tavares - Stastny - Danault - Plekanec

Marc Bergevin's plan B:  Statsny - Plekanec - Danault - DLR     

 

I have no issue with his plan A but if we can't have plan A then plan B should be rebuild. And that's my biggest issue with MB.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Perhaps Plan A should be:

  • Fire Marc Bergevin.
  • Fire Sylvain Lefebvre.
  • Fire assistant coaching staffs for Laval and Montreal.
  • Fire Bergevin's management team.
  • Hire for open positions.
  • Begin rebuilding the team.
  • Accept losing 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 seasons while the team re-focuses.

:6280:

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2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Perhaps Plan A should be:

  • Fire Marc Bergevin.
  • Fire Sylvain Lefebvre.
  • Fire assistant coaching staffs for Laval and Montreal.
  • Fire Bergevin's management team.
  • Hire for open positions.
  • Begin rebuilding the team.
  • Accept losing 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 seasons while the team re-focuses.

Should never accept losing. 

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46 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

Should never accept losing. 

Agreed, but for a true rebuild to happen we must be willing to accept some consequences and a bit of suffering until we can refocus our efforts to making the Stanley Cup our number one priority. That would only be possible if the proposed plan A were to happen IMO.

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4 hours ago, habsisme said:

I have no issue with his plan A but if we can't have plan A then plan B should be rebuild. And that's my biggest issue with MB.

Agreed. I do think that if you made the right moves this team could be competitive, albeit for a VERY Short window: 2-3 years tops.  And thats a huge IF that MB would actually make the right moves, or eve close to them. 

3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Perhaps Plan A should be:

  • Fire Marc Bergevin.
  • Fire Sylvain Lefebvre.
  • Fire assistant coaching staffs for Laval and Montreal.
  • Fire Bergevin's management team.
  • Hire for open positions.
  • Begin rebuilding the team.
  • Accept losing 2018-2019 and 2019-2020 seasons while the team re-focuses.

Ideally, yes. But it aint happening. 

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Bob McKenzie/Ray Ferraro kinda floated some Ryan O'Reilly speculation, they're wondering if Buffalo's looking to move him and suggested the Habs would be in on him. He's not the mythical "#1C" but he's a very strong fringe 1C and would be a huge help in Montreal. Its basically like rolling the clock back on Plekanec back to his prime.

An ROR trade also helps with the summer, if you get Tavares then Tavares-O'Reilly-Danault is genuinely excellent center depth and probably a good selling point to Tavares (and good leverage against Danault). ROR also means the summer isn't a complete disaster without Tavares, I'd still feel somewhat comfortable with O'Reilly-Stastny-Danault. That wouldn't be excellent depth but it's at least passable and you can try to make an honest run assuming Price/Weber return to form.

What kind of package would you guys think is realistic? Galchenyuk+ probably but I'm not sure what Buffalo needs. They definitely need help on D but Weber and Petry are the only guys they'd want and they're too critical to the Habs having any chance at a decent playoff run to trade away. Would be really nice to still have a Sergachev to trade away.

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Remember this when MB resigns TP and gives us the old " he's a veteran, with character and a positive attitude that will provide leadership " 

http://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/simmons-stubborn-babcock-leafs-players-need-to-be-sharper

 

 veteran NHL scout, who knows his way around the league and back, watched Plekanec Thursday in Game 1 of the playoff series against the Boston Bruins, after watching him late in the season, and is rather stunned by the quality of play — or lack of play — that the former Montreal Canadien brings to the Maple Leafs lineup.

“He looks like he has checked out, emotionally,” said the scout. “It’s like he’s announced his retirement while still on the ice. I don’t know if the last few years of Montreal took the energy out of him or what but he’s playing like he’s not really there.

“He’s not doing anything. This isn’t the Tomas Plekanec we’ve seen for years. I don’t know how they keep him in the lineup.”

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37 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Remember this when MB resigns TP and gives us the old " he's a veteran, with character and a positive attitude that will provide leadership " 

http://torontosun.com/sports/hockey/nhl/toronto-maple-leafs/simmons-stubborn-babcock-leafs-players-need-to-be-sharper

 

 veteran NHL scout, who knows his way around the league and back, watched Plekanec Thursday in Game 1 of the playoff series against the Boston Bruins, after watching him late in the season, and is rather stunned by the quality of play — or lack of play — that the former Montreal Canadien brings to the Maple Leafs lineup.

“He looks like he has checked out, emotionally,” said the scout. “It’s like he’s announced his retirement while still on the ice. I don’t know if the last few years of Montreal took the energy out of him or what but he’s playing like he’s not really there.

“He’s not doing anything. This isn’t the Tomas Plekanec we’ve seen for years. I don’t know how they keep him in the lineup.”

Yup I can easily see MB making Plekanec a priority to resign with us for next season lol.

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