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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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Reading the speculation around a Ryan O'Reilly trade the other day put a smile on my face, and I love how many positive reactions to that same notion I have been reading on here. Admittedly, I am biased. I have been on the O'Reilly bandwagon since draft day, and oh boy were we in a great place to get'em. Unfortunately, we took Leblanc instead. Meh, what can you do?.. Regardless, ROR is a beast! I would love to see him wearing our colors, and wow what a difference he would make!

Galchenyuk + (depending on what the + is) sounds about right to me. Maybe Gally and one of our 2nd's?

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10 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

LOl...why not? We don't seem capable of developing our own picks anyway.

Why not,,,, Tinordi 1 RD pick, gone. Sergachev 1st RD pick,,, gone. McCarran, 1st RD pick, gone. 

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10 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

O'Reilly is an interesting player... but his addition to our team won't push us back into contention for a playoff spot. Especially if we plan on sacrificing a roster player (Byron, Lehkonen, etc.) to acquire him. I'd make inquiries. However, I'm unsure what O'Reilly's real value is. 50-60 points, good face-off man...

Agreed, and he's also in that position where he's not necessarily overpaid - a consistent ~60 point 2-way center is definitely valuable - but those 7-8 million dollar contracts for non-elite players can kill a team's cap situation if they aren't careful. He's the type of player who at his cap hit I'd be excited about as the "one missing piece", but he's not someone I get and then hope the rest falls into place around him. If you build a team around a few well-compensated elite players, some underpaid youngsters, and good value depth players, you can justify a couple of these types of contracts. I just don't think we're in that situation. 

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I just don't think ROR is overpaid. Elite centers cost 10-12 million now. He's a #1-2 center; an okay 1, an amazing 2. He's worth that. People were talking about Stastny... well how much you think he is getting on the open market? 5-6? You're not willing to add 2 million for ROR? Aside from selling, i'd chase after him in a heartbeat 

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4 hours ago, habsisme said:

I just don't think ROR is overpaid. Elite centers cost 10-12 million now. He's a #1-2 center; an okay 1, an amazing 2. He's worth that. People were talking about Stastny... well how much you think he is getting on the open market? 5-6? You're not willing to add 2 million for ROR? Aside from selling, i'd chase after him in a heartbeat 

IMO,, they would want a very good roster player, a prospect, and and pick. They won't want a 3-4 liner, and some 5th Rd, pick, + a dumped salary,.

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15 hours ago, habsisme said:

I just don't think ROR is overpaid. Elite centers cost 10-12 million now. He's a #1-2 center; an okay 1, an amazing 2. He's worth that. People were talking about Stastny... well how much you think he is getting on the open market? 5-6? You're not willing to add 2 million for ROR? Aside from selling, i'd chase after him in a heartbeat 

Yeah, as mentioned, its not just the cap hit.  Statsny as a #2 may not be quite as good as ROR but he wont cost us anything but $$.  Adding ROR will mean losing a roster player plus a top prospect and a pick, im pretty sure.  Dont know if those loses offset the difference between a ROR and Stasny or Bozak, we just dont have the depth to lose too many players. 
 

2 hours ago, jeff33 said:

haha. yup. thanks Ek.   :P   Does sound like there's some smoke in Florida but i do think other teams (Calgary, St Louis) are still very much interested.  If we're making a strong pitch for Tavares we may need to keep Patches anyway.

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48 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, as mentioned, its not just the cap hit.  Statsny as a #2 may not be quite as good as ROR but he wont cost us anything but $$.  Adding ROR will mean losing a roster player plus a top prospect and a pick, im pretty sure.  Dont know if those loses offset the difference between a ROR and Stasny or Bozak, we just dont have the depth to lose too many players. 
 

haha. yup. thanks Ek.   :P   Does sound like there's some smoke in Florida but i do think other teams (Calgary, St Louis) are still very much interested.  If we're making a strong pitch for Tavares we may need to keep Patches anyway.

The irony of using Weber/Price/Pacioretty to attract Tavares is that if we sign Tavares to a deal over 10M per season and then want to re-up Pacioretty past next year, we can't really afford to keep all 4 guys. So someone has to go.

There has been speculation from some of the French media that the "bad attitude" Bergevin has singled out in the Habs dressing room relates to his dissatisfaction of Pacioretty and Price as leaders on this team. It's all hearsay at this point. As I've mentioned, I think we can question Pacioretty's ability to lead his teammates and put the team on his shoulders but not his heart or desire to do so. I personally don't see a problem with Max's attitude. Carey is another question. Hard to know what he's like in person, but his composure on the ice and in interviews suggests he's non-chalant and not overly invested in the game right now. He's always been calm and cool and produced results, and if he's producing, you accept the rest. But if he's not producing, you kind of don't want him shrugging his shoulders like it's nothing and oh well life goes on. So maybe there's something there with the attitude issues. Who knows...

Regardless, I wonder if MB is holding his cards now until after he knows what JT wants... if JT says he wants to play with Carey or wants to play with Max or so on, then perhaps MB is waiting to see what's most important and then work at re-shaping his roster from then on. But without a doubt, we can't expect to see 4 overpaid stars on the same roster. It won't fly. If your 4 guys are McDavid, Draisaitl, Subban, and Price, then you have something to work with. But when you have aging players who aren't giving you what they're being paid, it just doesn't pan out.

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22 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Reading the speculation around a Ryan O'Reilly trade the other day put a smile on my face, and I love how many positive reactions to that same notion I have been reading on here. Admittedly, I am biased. I have been on the O'Reilly bandwagon since draft day, and oh boy were we in a great place to get'em. Unfortunately, we took Leblanc instead. Meh, what can you do?.. Regardless, ROR is a beast! I would love to see him wearing our colors, and wow what a difference he would make!

Galchenyuk + (depending on what the + is) sounds about right to me. Maybe Gally and one of our 2nd's?

No way I move Galchenyk and a pick for Oreilly. I am not even a huge fan of Galchenyk. I would not even do Glachenyk straight up for OReilly.

 Galchenyk, if your not getting a young center prospect or a young deeman then no need to move galchenyk. Someone LIke Thomas from St Louis I would do.

I was not a Brodin fan but after watching him in the Winnipeg series I would take Brodin for Galchenyk right away. He would slot in nicely with weber and then if we can get Dahlin or Boqist we would be looking pretty good on the back end for quite a few years

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On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎14 at 2:39 AM, Habberwacky said:

You can definitely see Plekanec is done and while it was tough to gauge at the start of the year his continued lack of scoring made it pretty evident. Considering he was our #1,2, centre for much of the year shows how weak we were down the middle. Drouin made it a little better as he settled into the position the last month or two of the season. Bergevin didn't have good picture of how weak we were down the middle from the start of the season.  

He did not look done last night, was a menace for Bergeron all night. Only one other forward on TO had more icetime then Pleks. Way to go

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2 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

He did not look done last night, was a menace for Bergeron all night. Only one other forward on TO had more icetime then Pleks. Way to go

He's done. Only got that much ice time because Kadri got himself suspended . Sad part is MB will re sign him

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41 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

He did not look done last night, was a menace for Bergeron all night. Only one other forward on TO had more icetime then Pleks. Way to go

 

38 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

He's done. Only got that much ice time because Kadri got himself suspended . Sad part is MB will re sign him

i think it depends what your expectations are.  As a $6m two way player he's done.   Signed for 1 year at a time at $1.5m a season to anchor your 4th line, im happy to have him back. 

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12 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 

i think it depends what your expectations are.  As a $6m two way player he's done.   Signed for 1 year at a time at $1.5m a season to anchor your 4th line, im happy to have him back. 

then we fail to get anyone else and he plays 17 minutes a night centering gallagher and lehkonen? hard pass

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12 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

then we fail to get anyone else and he plays 17 minutes a night centering gallagher and lehkonen? hard pass

obviously the only way I sign him if I am Gm is as a 4th liner.  We dont get 1st and 2nd line centres.   Danault at #3 is our only roster/position ready centre right now imho. 

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I woudn't go anywhere near re-signing Plekanec, no matter the money. Why? We don't need him. He's aging, so he'll be no better next year than he was for us the past two years. He might be a nice deadline acquisition as a cheap depth player for the player (albeit I wouldn't have given up a 2nd rounder to get him myself), but he's not a fit for a team that isn't a Cup contender. So why would we sign him and give minutes to him that we could/should be giving to Danault or DLR or McCarron or whoever else. Play a younger bottom 6 center who can play the game faster, give you an edge, and most importantly, be a contributor for a few years. Better to give a younger guy experience now when you're not a true Cup contender so that he can help you as a veteran in that role in 2-3 years. There's simply no value in going back to Plekanec, and this club has played the recycling game with players and coaches far too often.

Look at our failure to develop the grouping of Beaulieu/Pateryn/Tinordi/Ellis for example... we left those young D men in the minors or in the press box while we played the likes of Bouillon and Murray. Look at what we did to Galchenyuk, letting him languish on the bottom lines and on the wing, while we iced Plekanec and Desharnais at center. Look how we've screwed around with youngsters like Sekac and Andrighetto and Hudon and Scherbak and so on while plugging veterans like Flynn, Moen, Prust, Brown, King, Ott, and so on into the line-up ahead of them. Enough. This team needs to have a plan and it needs to be willing to go with speed, youth, and skill. You can't play on the sentimental value attachment to Plekanec, you need to go on what's going to win you games not only now but down the line when it matters. That's using youngsters. We have a need for two top 6 centers, not for bottom 6 players, and Pleky simply doesn't fit the need of what we're looking for.

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37 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I woudn't go anywhere near re-signing Plekanec, no matter the money. Why? We don't need him. He's aging, so he'll be no better next year than he was for us the past two years. He might be a nice deadline acquisition as a cheap depth player for the player (albeit I wouldn't have given up a 2nd rounder to get him myself), but he's not a fit for a team that isn't a Cup contender. So why would we sign him and give minutes to him that we could/should be giving to Danault or DLR or McCarron or whoever else. Play a younger bottom 6 center who can play the game faster, give you an edge, and most importantly, be a contributor for a few years. Better to give a younger guy experience now when you're not a true Cup contender so that he can help you as a veteran in that role in 2-3 years. There's simply no value in going back to Plekanec, and this club has played the recycling game with players and coaches far too often.

Look at our failure to develop the grouping of Beaulieu/Pateryn/Tinordi/Ellis for example... we left those young D men in the minors or in the press box while we played the likes of Bouillon and Murray. Look at what we did to Galchenyuk, letting him languish on the bottom lines and on the wing, while we iced Plekanec and Desharnais at center. Look how we've screwed around with youngsters like Sekac and Andrighetto and Hudon and Scherbak and so on while plugging veterans like Flynn, Moen, Prust, Brown, King, Ott, and so on into the line-up ahead of them. Enough. This team needs to have a plan and it needs to be willing to go with speed, youth, and skill. You can't play on the sentimental value attachment to Plekanec, you need to go on what's going to win you games not only now but down the line when it matters. That's using youngsters. We have a need for two top 6 centers, not for bottom 6 players, and Pleky simply doesn't fit the need of what we're looking for.

All of the above makes sense, however,,, we have the same guy driving the bus,, so i don't see any immediate change in strategy. We're talking about a guy who fires a farm team coach while claiming he thought the guy did a great job.:rolleyes: Until this delusional GM is shown the door, i fully expect more of the same.

 

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3 hours ago, caperns61 said:

No way I move Galchenyk and a pick for Oreilly. I am not even a huge fan of Galchenyk. I would not even do Glachenyk straight up for OReilly.

 Galchenyk, if your not getting a young center prospect or a young deeman then no need to move galchenyk. Someone LIke Thomas from St Louis I would do.

Interesting... Not even straight up? I understand the desire to younger and better in return, in any trade really, but that's tough to accomplish. Usually a trade like that comes with an element of unknown certainty. Like a prospect or through a draft pick. It's very rare for a team to trade an already proven commodity for an older, proven lesser of a commodity. I like Galchenyuk, but it doesn't seem like the rest of the league is foaming at the mouth to make a trade for him. I'm not saying that we should for sure trade him, but honestly, if we're going to make any trades, him and Patches are our best pieces to work with. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if both got traded. I guess what I'm trying to say is, we aren't really dealing from the sort of position of power that would enable us to name our price or create a sort of bidding war.

Truthfully, I highly doubt that Galchenyuk + would be enough to land O'Reilly anyways. I know if I were looking at it from Buffalo's point of view I wouldn't do it. But what can I say, that article got me hopeful.

Or is it more that you're just not a fan of O'Reilly's craft?

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42 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Interesting... Not even straight up? I understand the desire to younger and better in return, in any trade really, but that's tough to accomplish. Usually a trade like that comes with an element of unknown certainty. Like a prospect or through a draft pick. It's very rare for a team to trade an already proven commodity for an older, proven lesser of a commodity. I like Galchenyuk, but it doesn't seem like the rest of the league is foaming at the mouth to make a trade for him. I'm not saying that we should for sure trade him, but honestly, if we're going to make any trades, him and Patches are our best pieces to work with. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if both got traded. I guess what I'm trying to say is, we aren't really dealing from the sort of position of power that would enable us to name our price or create a sort of bidding war.

Truthfully, I highly doubt that Galchenyuk + would be enough to land O'Reilly anyways. I know if I were looking at it from Buffalo's point of view I wouldn't do it. But what can I say, that article got me hopeful.

Or is it more that you're just not a fan of O'Reilly's craft?

ROR would be an excellent #2 center here and on most teams in the league. Would I trade Galchenyuk for him? Nope. It comes down to 2 things... age and contract. ROR is three years older and he's signed for 5 more years at 7.5M. Galchenyuk is 24 and on a cheaper deal, at least for the next two seasons. We've seen what happens when you deal for a guy who's just a few years older, like Subban for Weber. Sergachev for Drouin is not as much of a travesty IMO because both guys were still young. I can live with trading an 18/19 year old for a 21/22 year old. But 27 is already past prime technically, even if the player can still be productive for upcoming years, so we're talking about acquiring a player for his 27-33 age range as opposed to 24-30 over an equivalent timeframe. For me, the player really has to be a significant upgrade to make that move, and while ROR certainly fills a hole in our line-up, I don't think we're in a situation where we can afford to deal younger guys and goal-creators for older ones. We're just not that close to a Cup, unless there are other concurrent moves (e.g. we win Dahlin, we sign Tavares, etc.). So yes, if you can sign JT, then maybe trading AG for ROR makes more sense. But as it stands, I'd rather try to get younger. I'd prefer to ship out Pacioretty, Price, Weber, etc. than trying to deal away players who can still be helpful for another 5 years.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

ROR would be an excellent #2 center here and on most teams in the league. Would I trade Galchenyuk for him? Nope. It comes down to 2 things... age and contract. ROR is three years older and he's signed for 5 more years at 7.5M. Galchenyuk is 24 and on a cheaper deal, at least for the next two seasons. We've seen what happens when you deal for a guy who's just a few years older, like Subban for Weber. Sergachev for Drouin is not as much of a travesty IMO because both guys were still young. I can live with trading an 18/19 year old for a 21/22 year old. But 27 is already past prime technically, even if the player can still be productive for upcoming years, so we're talking about acquiring a player for his 27-33 age range as opposed to 24-30 over an equivalent timeframe. For me, the player really has to be a significant upgrade to make that move, and while ROR certainly fills a hole in our line-up, I don't think we're in a situation where we can afford to deal younger guys and goal-creators for older ones. We're just not that close to a Cup, unless there are other concurrent moves (e.g. we win Dahlin, we sign Tavares, etc.). So yes, if you can sign JT, then maybe trading AG for ROR makes more sense. But as it stands, I'd rather try to get younger. I'd prefer to ship out Pacioretty, Price, Weber, etc. than trying to deal away players who can still be helpful for another 5 years.

Not saying I'd necessarily take that trade, but one difference with Subban is Subban was locked up while Galchenyk is a UFA in 2 years. And my gut feeling is neither the team nor Galcnhenyk is desperate to extend the deal or remotely on the same page in terms of what he's worth.

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

The irony of using Weber/Price/Pacioretty to attract Tavares is that if we sign Tavares to a deal over 10M per season and then want to re-up Pacioretty past next year, we can't really afford to keep all 4 guys. So someone has to go.

I was curious what the cap numbers actually looked like, and it appears after re-signing / replacing our free agents, our 23 man roster next season will have a cap hit of about 64 million. The next off-season we don't have any big cap hits coming off the books other than Pacioretty.

Cap is projected at 78-82 next season and I'd assume an increase the season after that. Let's assume 85 million cap in the 2019 offseason. Assuming Pacioretty bounces back, 21 million between JT and Pacioretty would be tough to pull off (I'd guess JT gets at least 13, Pacioretty at least 8). And that doesn't leave much room for raises if someone like Lehknen has a breakout season. And that's a lot of money committed long-term to older players that could cause problems in subsequent offseasons (even though the cap will likely increase a bit creating some extra room).

So having all 4 on the roster is maybe doable, but would be tough to pull off and leave us in a Chicago-like cap situation.

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Ya know, IMO, this coming summer will define MB. He can either make or break this team. He will have cap space to do it, but will he have the guts to make this team a whole lot better, and do everything possible to make this team better?

I don't trust MB to do the right thing.

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5 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Ya know, IMO, this coming summer will define MB. He can either make or break this team. He will have cap space to do it, but will he have the guts to make this team a whole lot better, and do everything possible to make this team better?

I don't trust MB to do the right thing.

He had 8 mill to play with this year and couldn't get anything done. I have little confidence in his abilities going forward.

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7 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Ya know, IMO, this coming summer will define MB. He can either make or break this team. He will have cap space to do it, but will he have the guts to make this team a whole lot better, and do everything possible to make this team better?

I don't trust MB to do the right thing.

Maybe... I still think the first major move he needs to complete is signing Tavares... and since I don't believe that's going to happen, I'm not really sure what he's going to do with the cap space. I assume we'll end up in a situation where we sign a 'B' center and put him on the top line. Paul Stastny maybe. And that's not going to put us back in contention. In addition, our chances of drafting number 1 are less than 10 percent. So... we're likely not getting Dahlin. Where does our top-pairing, mobile, puck-moving defender come from? Probably nowhere. That's one issue I also don't see Bergevin solving.

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