Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
 Share

Recommended Posts

7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I tend to believe GM's version of the story, simply because it fits with what we know about the Subban/Therrien/Bergevin relationship, the contract negotiation issues, and the timeline of what happened. It also fits with Bergevin's pattern of lying to us. If you believe Bergevin, then it makes it sound like there really was no issue with Subban's personality and that the team only traded him as a hockey trade (which as you said, means Bergevin is just a really bad hockey GM).

The only way I can rationalize the whole thing is by saying that they traded Subban for a conflict with his personality; Bergevin doesn't want to admit it because he thinks it makes him look petty; but Molson is on this whole transparency kick and decided that he's more worried about fans deserting the team and not buying tickets that he's taking a calculated gamble that admitting to what they did is going to earn him bonus points with the fanbase.

 

 

The best people to believe are former players and career AHL'rs with friends in the bigs ;) 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/22/2018 at 10:48 PM, BigTed3 said:

MB was on a French talk show called Tout Le Monde En Parle... a few of the highlights of what he said tonight:

- Trevor Timmins will lead the team at the draft. However, there may be changes coming to the scouting staff after the draft

- There may be changes to the roster at the draft. He also refused to answer as to whether Max Pacioretty would be back next year.

- He said Carey told him he sometimes simply forgot to salute the crowd sometimes. Said he thinks Carey will rebound next year.

- Says Subban did not have an attitude problem and that the change was to acquire Weber, who is a great leader and player for us. Says that Geoff Molson didn't tell the truth when he said the team had been trying to trade Subban for months, and that all player evaluations were done at the end of the season and not before. This is probably the biggest and most intriguing statement, because it means GM was calling MB a liar and now MB is calling GM a liar... at least one of them is lying to the fans/media.

- When asked about Tavares, MB said he has the flexibility to sign a few players or maybe just one player (with a big smile) if the contract demand isn't exorbitant... which is bordering on tampering, but definitely sounds like he's hoping JT gets to market and that he's going to be looking at an offer to him.

I would love to hear Molson's response to this.

Could there be an issue here with semantics and meaning lost in translation?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Apparently a Russian article (sport-express.ru) indicated that Montreal is in the mix/interested in Slava Voynov. My head will explode with disappointment if Bergevin is even exploring this option. Is he even allowed back in the NHL?

If he (MB) does, then his whole "attitude and character" diatribe sure means a lot hey?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, maas_art said:

If he (MB) does, then his whole "attitude and character" diatribe sure means a lot hey?

 

I have no idea if that website is a credible source. I just saw that website's article being reported on another well known Montreal Canadiens blog. They weren't necessarily giving any legitimacy to the article, but were stating how Montreal absolutely needs to stay away from this.

If true, yes, the "character" and "attitude" comments will look even worse.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I have no idea if that website is a credible source. I just saw that website's article being reported on another well known Montreal Canadiens blog. They weren't necessarily giving any legitimacy to the article, but were stating how Montreal absolutely needs to stay away from this.

If true, yes, the "character" and "attitude" comments will look even worse.

yeah, ive heard it from a couple of sources but I suspect they are all reporting from the same Russian article.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Apparently a Russian article (sport-express.ru) indicated that Montreal is in the mix/interested in Slava Voynov. My head will explode with disappointment if Bergevin is even exploring this option. Is he even allowed back in the NHL?

 

 

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

If he (MB) does, then his whole "attitude and character" diatribe sure means a lot hey?

 

 

53 minutes ago, maas_art said:

yeah, ive heard it from a couple of sources but I suspect they are all reporting from the same Russian article.

 

Yeah, RDS has picked up the same story now too... who knows.

But yes, clearly the whole attitude and character thing is made-up-as-we-go. To say a player like Subban has no character? Hardly. To say that they absolutely positively had to get rid of guys like Kassian, Beaulieu, Thomas, DSP, and Kristo, etc. because of attitude issues off ice but still be okay with some of the rumors about guys like Carey or accept the attitude problems that Drouin gave Tampa. Doesn't make sense.

The bottom line is that MB throws our attitude and grit and character because they can't be measured, so they're simply an excuse for him to put a hockey word on the basic issue of whether he personally likes or dislikes a player. If he dislikes you, you lack character. If he likes you, you bring character and have a good attitude.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grain of salt category:

Engels offered up a possible blockbuster between the Canadiens and the Washington Capitals. 

The Capitals are once again having a questionable playoff run and GM Brian MacLellan may be tempted to get rid of his star Nicklas Backstrom if the Caps fail to get out of the second round.

Backstrom had another good season with 71 points alongside Alex Ovechkin and he would undoubtedly form an explosive duo with Jonathan Drouin on the top line of the Canadiens.

The 30-year-old Swede will be under contract for another 2 seasons at a very affordable cap hit of $6.7 million, so the Canadiens would have no problem fitting him under the salary cap.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Grain of salt category:

Engels offered up a possible blockbuster between the Canadiens and the Washington Capitals. 

The Capitals are once again having a questionable playoff run and GM Brian MacLellan may be tempted to get rid of his star Nicklas Backstrom if the Caps fail to get out of the second round.

Backstrom had another good season with 71 points alongside Alex Ovechkin and he would undoubtedly form an explosive duo with Jonathan Drouin on the top line of the Canadiens.

The 30-year-old Swede will be under contract for another 2 seasons at a very affordable cap hit of $6.7 million, so the Canadiens would have no problem fitting him under the salary cap.

 

Yeah ive heard Backstrom's name a few times but I cant see Washington as being a good trading partner for us.  They'd want young talent and we cant really spare what we've got and not much of it is high end. 

I could see them being interested in our 1st rounder but that would be a bad move imho.  I could also see them having interest in something like Galchenyuk + Mete but to me that would be a huge misstep because even with Backstrom I think our window to win is probably closed. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Yeah, RDS has picked up the same story now too... who knows.

But yes, clearly the whole attitude and character thing is made-up-as-we-go. To say a player like Subban has no character? Hardly. To say that they absolutely positively had to get rid of guys like Kassian, Beaulieu, Thomas, DSP, and Kristo, etc. because of attitude issues off ice but still be okay with some of the rumors about guys like Carey or accept the attitude problems that Drouin gave Tampa. Doesn't make sense.

The bottom line is that MB throws our attitude and grit and character because they can't be measured, so they're simply an excuse for him to put a hockey word on the basic issue of whether he personally likes or dislikes a player. If he dislikes you, you lack character. If he likes you, you bring character and have a good attitude.

Character/attitude problems come in many shapes and sizes, and have different effects on the teams and how they play. Some players have direct conflicts with teammates, sleep with their wives, etc. Some have issues with authority/coaches/systems, don't like being told how to play, made to back check. Some have off ice issues with drugs and alcohol, party too much. Some beat the tar out of their spouses. Some are far less serious, but are still significant, like poor work ethics and attitudes towards what the team is trying to do as a whole. They might be well liked, but just set a poor mentality for the rest of the team. I think that because of this, every instance should be looked at individually. Is it an ongoing issue? Was it circumstantial? 

As far as Voynov is concerned, I see no reason to be interested in him, regardless of his past. He is at best a middle pairing, right shooting defensemen. Not exactly a position in need of filling for us

Link to comment
Share on other sites

the new kid in town

7

team logo
< >

Alexandre Alain

Blainville-Boisbriand, Armada

Season:
2018 | Playoffs
Position: RW Shoots: R Height: 6'01" Weight: 186
Birthdate: 1997-03-03
Birthplace: Québec, QC
nhl NHL -  Invited: 2015, ANA
nhl NHL -  Invited: 2016, TB
nhl NHL -  Invited: 2017, MTL
LHJMQ QMJHL -  Drafted: 2013, Round: 1 (#9) Gat

Statistics & Records

Link to comment
Share on other sites

sorry guys,  the posting didn`t work as I wanted, but the new kid seems a good start to wherever we`re headed, allows us to retool or rebuild, I wanted to post his stats, but that did not work out the way I wanted, but seems he doubled his numbers, and may even turn out to be something we can use ..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Character/attitude problems come in many shapes and sizes, and have different effects on the teams and how they play. Some players have direct conflicts with teammates, sleep with their wives, etc. Some have issues with authority/coaches/systems, don't like being told how to play, made to back check. Some have off ice issues with drugs and alcohol, party too much. Some beat the tar out of their spouses. Some are far less serious, but are still significant, like poor work ethics and attitudes towards what the team is trying to do as a whole. They might be well liked, but just set a poor mentality for the rest of the team. I think that because of this, every instance should be looked at individually. Is it an ongoing issue? Was it circumstantial? 

As far as Voynov is concerned, I see no reason to be interested in him, regardless of his past. He is at best a middle pairing, right shooting defensemen. Not exactly a position in need of filling for us

Exactly.  More moves are made under these circumstances than fans realize.  I believe stories/opinions from ex-players in a casual setting vs. a formalized speech from management any day.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, habsisme said:

I like it, who knows... but to be fair I think at his age its expected for him to play much better then his competition 

something to dream about: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/draft-lottery-win-montreal-canadiens/

yup. engels is right on the money with what a lottery win would mean.  Dahlin looks pretty much a sure thing to be an elite defensman & would be great anywhere but when you have a 32 year old Shea Weber as your #1 you need a guy like Dahlin.   I think its entirely possible Weber has  a renaissance if we do indeed get that first pick.  And the two of them would probably be a bonefide top pairing for many years.  

Keep plugging guys like Emelin, Benn or whomever next to Weber and things are only going to get worse as the years go by. Add a defenseman who is even better than Shea next to him & I think Weber's game will get a whole lot better looking. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Windoe said:

Exactly.  More moves are made under these circumstances than fans realize.  I believe stories/opinions from ex-players in a casual setting vs. a formalized speech from management any day.  

 

Sure, and I'd even assume some of these "rumours" are intentional leaks from the team. But what's interesting is the players we're talking about don't even have anything serious out there (eg. with Subban what concrete have we heard - him & Max didn't get along, he was a bit difficult for MT to coach, and he didn't get upset enough when we lost?)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/24/2018 at 9:16 AM, maas_art said:

If he (MB) does, then his whole "attitude and character" diatribe sure means a lot hey?

 

When MB signed Radulov after trading Subban because of "character" ... the whole diatribe was out the window.   Radulov proved to be a changed man, but MB was taking a risk on a player who had clear character problems in his first NHL stint.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

When MB signed Radulov after trading Subban because of "character" ... the whole diatribe was out the window.   Radulov proved to be a changed man, but MB was taking a risk on a player who had clear character problems in his first NHL stint.

I think when we had that season where the mantra was "no excuses" and we lost and they took down the "no excuses sign" and then made lots of excuses was when the credibility was all lost... its been downhill since then... 

 

The only nice thing is that it cant get much worse... i hope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I think when we had that season where the mantra was "no excuses" and we lost and they took down the "no excuses sign" and then made lots of excuses was when the credibility was all lost... its been downhill since then... 

 

The only nice thing is that it cant get much worse... i hope.

They were making excuses even when the sign was up... to me, the credibility was lost when they announced the GM and coach would have to speak French. At that point, you knew right away we weren't getting the best of the best, we were getting people put in place to temper a political storm and not to advance the hockey team. We got a re-tread in Therrien, we got friends of Bergevin's like Daigneault and Lefebvre put in place, we ignored legit Anglophone candidates like Nill and Robinson and Babcock, and we refused to fire any of the under-performing managerial/coaching types because they were all foxhole buddies. Zero credibility at the top, zero results down the line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MB has to be on thin ice.  He needs to do something big. 

Very rarely will you hear concrete statements from an organization when it comes to personality trades.  So and so just gets traded.  Management won't, for example, announce that they had to trade player X because he slept with player Y's wife/girlfriend.  I know of easily 5 of these trades.  Its never mentioned in a concrete manner.  But the players know why, and they tend to talk while on chartered fishing trips ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

They were making excuses even when the sign was up... to me, the credibility was lost when they announced the GM and coach would have to speak French. At that point, you knew right away we weren't getting the best of the best, we were getting people put in place to temper a political storm and not to advance the hockey team. We got a re-tread in Therrien, we got friends of Bergevin's like Daigneault and Lefebvre put in place, we ignored legit Anglophone candidates like Nill and Robinson and Babcock, and we refused to fire any of the under-performing managerial/coaching types because they were all foxhole buddies. Zero credibility at the top, zero results down the line.

At least I understand the French thing. And while it may handicap us somewhat having less choice, I think there are plenty of good francophone candidates out there (even in addition to the 'known' names, I assume there are quality coaches in QMJHL, etc). And as much as Babcock has this great reputation, listening to Toronto sports radio you'd think he was Therrien (and how he utilized Subban internationally kind of hints at how old school he is). Nill was seen as this great hire but hasn't done much. I believe Brisebois is a top-tier GM candidate and will get looks from all sorts of teams, not just the team needing to hire a francophone. Similarly, Julien is still considered a great coach in the league. I'd definately prefer to have 10 great candidates to pick from, but in the end I still think the francophone requirements don't need to hold us back.

Totally agree on MB hiring his friends though, there is simply no good excuse for this. Had MB made better hiring decisions and not seemingly lost his mind  a couple years ago, I actually think he could have been a good GM - he's actually made a lot of good moves, overshadowed by poor development and a few really bad ones.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Graeme-1 said:

Totally agree on MB hiring his friends though, there is simply no good excuse for this. Had MB made better hiring decisions and not seemingly lost his mind  a couple years ago, I actually think he could have been a good GM - he's actually made a lot of good moves, overshadowed by poor development and a few really bad ones.

And some (but not all) of his bad moves are kind of just branches off his early coaching decisions.

If we had hired a better, more modern coach to begin with, do you think that Subban would still have been traded?  At least from the outside it seems as though PK just didn't jive with Therrien, and when that became apparent Bergevin made the (stupid) choice to "side" with his friend the coach instead of his all-star defenceman.  If it had been any other coach that wasn't a personal friend you'd have to think that the coach would have been the one shown the door, and if it had been a better coach to begin with we probably wouldn't have seen that sort of issue arise in the first place.

If you've got a better defensive coach and the defence was playing well, would there have been any need to go after Alzner, Benn and company?  If our coach had preached a more progressive, possession-based style would Bergevin have needed to focus so much on grit and grinders?

Bergevin has made some really good moves when he's actually targeted the right players (Petry, Vanek, Radulov, etc.).  It's just that his priorities have been all wrong, especially lately.  How much of his mindset would have been different had we started with a better coaching staff?

 

 

Edit: Thinking back, he started with a focus on grinders but then after his first year (or two?) he seemed to be shifting his approach.  The year we got Petry and a few others, I remember posting here that maybe he had turned a corner and that I had misjudged him earlier.  I was happy that we seemed to have a GM who was willing to learn from his mistakes....

...but then we lost to Ottawa in the playoffs, and the lesson he took from that was basically to double down on what "worked" before.  And that was the beginning of the end of our hopes of any exciting players playing for this team.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Manatee-X said:

And some (but not all) of his bad moves are kind of just branches off his early coaching decisions.

If we had hired a better, more modern coach to begin with, do you think that Subban would still have been traded?  At least from the outside it seems as though PK just didn't jive with Therrien, and when that became apparent Bergevin made the (stupid) choice to "side" with his friend the coach instead of his all-star defenceman.  If it had been any other coach that wasn't a personal friend you'd have to think that the coach would have been the one shown the door, and if it had been a better coach to begin with we probably wouldn't have seen that sort of issue arise in the first place.

If you've got a better defensive coach and the defence was playing well, would there have been any need to go after Alzner, Benn and company?  If our coach had preached a more progressive, possession-based style would Bergevin have needed to focus so much on grit and grinders?

Bergevin has made some really good moves when he's actually targeted the right players (Petry, Vanek, Radulov, etc.).  It's just that his priorities have been all wrong, especially lately.  How much of his mindset would have been different had we started with a better coaching staff?

 

You're right, trading Subban for Weber because Subban didn't get along with the coach would be insane.  Fortunately, that didn't happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • H_T_L locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...