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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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2 hours ago, Noob616 said:

The Habs plan is based on not having a Karlsson, and getting him instantly changes it. A top 4 anchored by Karlsson and Petry is instantly credible and indirectly fixes the issue at LD since Karlsson has been the best defenseman in the world for half a decade dragging around plugs like Methot, Ceci, Cowen, etc. so you can just put Mete with Petry and plug in any one of Benn/Reilly/Alzner/UFA/Trade target with Karlsson. Obviously you want to upgrade and don't want Benn or Alzner playing top 4 minutes, but it's no longer a glaring giant need with Karlsson carrying a top pair on his own.

You'd still have Pacioretty to trade for help at C or on LD and you wouldn't have to worry as much about losing that trade in isolation since the Habs would have a star defenseman again. I get the apprehension about trading picks for an older player but Karlsson is still only 27, I don't think he puts you on a clock where you have to win immediately. I guess I'm just highly skeptical that Weber + Zadina + 2018 1st have more value over the next 5 seasons than Karlsson age 27-32. 

That's the most enticing part to me. We'd instantly go from having to find a guy who can play big minutes with Weber to having a legit #1 RHD who can actually play with guys like Reilly, Alzner, Benn and 'make them better'. Sure, not ideal, but manageable nontheless.

As others have said though, I just don't see MB trading Shea Weber. The Subban-Weber deal will be his legacy, my guess is he'd rather lose his job before trading the Man Mountain.

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10 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I do actually like Weber but I dont see any way you add Karlsson & keep weber.  Thats like $20m for your top pair (once Karlsson signs his extension).   Plus as much as I like Weber now, I worry about him in a few years.

Add Price and we'd spend like $30M on three guys and still wouldn't have a #1C, not going to happen.

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4 hours ago, Noob616 said:

The Habs plan is based on not having a Karlsson, and getting him instantly changes it. A top 4 anchored by Karlsson and Petry is instantly credible and indirectly fixes the issue at LD since Karlsson has been the best defenseman in the world for half a decade dragging around plugs like Methot, Ceci, Cowen, etc. so you can just put Mete with Petry and plug in any one of Benn/Reilly/Alzner/UFA/Trade target with Karlsson. Obviously you want to upgrade and don't want Benn or Alzner playing top 4 minutes, but it's no longer a glaring giant need with Karlsson carrying a top pair on his own.

You'd still have Pacioretty to trade for help at C or on LD and you wouldn't have to worry as much about losing that trade in isolation since the Habs would have a star defenseman again. I get the apprehension about trading picks for an older player but Karlsson is still only 27, I don't think he puts you on a clock where you have to win immediately. I guess I'm just highly skeptical that Weber + Zadina + 2018 1st have more value over the next 5 seasons than Karlsson age 27-32. 

Let's say you're right and the Sens agree to Weber + our 2018 and 2019 first rounders... I'd hedge a bet our 2019 first rounder is in the 10-20 range, but with the lottery, that could still potentially be a top 3 pick. I also think you need to look at the opportunity cost lost by not dealing Weber for a younger, more useful player over longer term. I'm not concerned about losing Weber for Karlsson, that in itself is a good deal for us. But I simply don't think we're in a position to be dealing away 1st rounders, especially a 3rd overall and another potential lottery pick, in exchange for a guy who's been getting hurt more often and is heading into the range of being past his prime. Like with the Weber acquisition, I think Karlsson will be good for the next few years, but the odds are that there will be some amount of drop off. There's also no guarantee that he re-signs with us after the one year left on his deal.

So I'll flip this trade haul a little bit and say we take Zadina this year and have a shot at a player like a Vilardi or Kotkaniemi or Borgstrom or whatever as a center prospect next year plus the possible return on Weber as maybe being a young D man and another pick or prospect (e.g Ryan Murray or Zach Werenski or so on plus a 2nd)... well I'd personally take the sum of all those parts.

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33 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

If the islanders could get Price, and they could resign Tavares and would they give up their 2 first round picks for price?

 

interesting thought.  I wonder.   They are definitely in a situation where they need to start winning asap & Tavares may find himself more willing to re-sign if they made a move like adding price. 

Would price accept a trade to NYI though ?  Not sure. 

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5 minutes ago, maas_art said:

interesting thought.  I wonder.   They are definitely in a situation where they need to start winning asap & Tavares may find himself more willing to re-sign if they made a move like adding price. 

Would price accept a trade to NYI though ?  Not sure. 

MB doesnt want to rebuild but I would make that deal. I think NYI would to IF it meant re-signing Tavares. We'd have to take Greiss back too. 3 firsts (in top 15) and 4 seconds... thats one hell of a way to kick off a rebuild!

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1. I don't think Price would accept a trade to the Isles, given the instability there.

2. I think you could get more for Price than two mid-1st round picks. Again, I'd rather get one near-guaranteed prospect than a couple of shots in the dark like Veleno, Hayton, Kupari, etc.

3. If we were going to deal Price for a 2018 draft pick return now, I'd rather look into the Hurricanes and their willingness to deal #2 or even Buffalo and #1. I think you could make an argument for Dahlin for Price, given how bad Buffalo's goalie situation is, albeit I don't know that Price accepts that deal either. And Carolina also has no clear #1 goalie and we know their owner wants to make a splash. Might they consider something like Price + Pacioretty for the 2nd overall, Jake Bean, and Necar? You then draft Svechnikov and Zadina and you look at lining up something like

Svechnikov-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

Drouin-Necar-Zadina

Hudon-Danault-Lehkonen

Byron-Shaw-Scherbak

 

 

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

1. I don't think Price would accept a trade to the Isles, given the instability there.

2. I think you could get more for Price than two mid-1st round picks. Again, I'd rather get one near-guaranteed prospect than a couple of shots in the dark like Veleno, Hayton, Kupari, etc.

3. If we were going to deal Price for a 2018 draft pick return now, I'd rather look into the Hurricanes and their willingness to deal #2 or even Buffalo and #1. I think you could make an argument for Dahlin for Price, given how bad Buffalo's goalie situation is, albeit I don't know that Price accepts that deal either. And Carolina also has no clear #1 goalie and we know their owner wants to make a splash. Might they consider something like Price + Pacioretty for the 2nd overall, Jake Bean, and Necar? You then draft Svechnikov and Zadina and you look at lining up something like

Svechnikov-Galchenyuk-Gallagher

Drouin-Necar-Zadina

Hudon-Danault-Lehkonen

Byron-Shaw-Scherbak

 

 

 

A lot of people think Tavares would come here because of Price, Why would price not go there because of Tavares?

Also your not getting a mid first round pick that would be around 15 and 16, your getting 11 and 12, so around the top 35% range,  also the 4 picks that we have in the second round you could almost rebuild your roster this year.

Carolina management looks like its going Ottawa way and not likely shelling out top dollars for  players or coaches like price.

Buffalo would not bite either, first time they win the lottery chance for a generational player  they would be crucified if they made that deal.

Islanders  already have the youth in their lineup, Buffalo or Carolina are not giving up an almost gauranteed home run. But its what we need because we have an empty cupboard. I would like to be sitting on a  Jesperi Kotkaniemi, Filip Zadina, Joseph Veleno and what ever you get in the second round. They can then shop patches for that left handed deeman in the 20 to 24 year old range.

I think we could be really setup down the middle for the next ten years. And we have been chasing that for the last 20 years...and who knows what you may get in the second round.  Your top nine players would all be 25 or under. Even if you have another bad season this coming year at least we have hope for the future.

Droiun/Kotkaniemi?Veleno?Poehling?/Galager

Zadina/Kotkaniemi?Veleno?Poehling?/Galcheynk

Lekonen/Danault/Hudon/ShawSherback

Byron/Delarose.Shaw/Sherback 

Patches Trade - Weber

Mete - Petry

Riely/Benn -Julsen

 

 

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

1. I don't think Price would accept a trade to the Isles, given the instability there.

 

 

 

I can't see how Price can decline a trade before his new contract kicks in(I believe this is unheard of and would set a precedent) unless he has some kind of legal side agreement with the team which penalizes the Habs heavily. 

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3 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I can't see how Price can decline a trade before his new contract kicks in(I believe this is unheard of and would set a precedent) unless he has some kind of legal side agreement with the team which penalizes the Habs heavily. 

For whatever reason, Marc Bergevin conceded giving Price a retroactive NTC, so it's already in effect. Bad GM.

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3 hours ago, caperns61 said:

 

A lot of people think Tavares would come here because of Price, Why would price not go there because of Tavares?

Also your not getting a mid first round pick that would be around 15 and 16, your getting 11 and 12, so around the top 35% range,  also the 4 picks that we have in the second round you could almost rebuild your roster this year.

Carolina management looks like its going Ottawa way and not likely shelling out top dollars for  players or coaches like price.

Buffalo would not bite either, first time they win the lottery chance for a generational player  they would be crucified if they made that deal.

Islanders  already have the youth in their lineup, Buffalo or Carolina are not giving up an almost gauranteed home run. But its what we need because we have an empty cupboard. I would like to be sitting on a  Jesperi Kotkaniemi, Filip Zadina, Joseph Veleno and what ever you get in the second round. They can then shop patches for that left handed deeman in the 20 to 24 year old range.

I think we could be really setup down the middle for the next ten years. And we have been chasing that for the last 20 years...and who knows what you may get in the second round.  Your top nine players would all be 25 or under. Even if you have another bad season this coming year at least we have hope for the future.

Other than Kotkaniemi, who is projected to be a #2 center with a shot at being a #1, the other centers in this draft are mainly projected as #2-3 two-way players, akin to Poehling. None of them really solves our quest for a #1 center and all of those guys are thought to be 3-4 years away from the NHL. And with the 11 and 12 picks, there's zero chance we get Kotkaniemi, so it'd be two shots at projects. I'd personally rather have one more top 5 pick to take Svechnikov or Kotkaniemi in addition to Zadina, rather than two mid-rounders (by which I'm including picks 11-20).

If you look at this year's draft, you have Dahlin, then the next level of prospect, which is deemed to include Svechnikov, Zadina, Tkachuk, and maybe Kotkaniemi. Then you have the set of Hughes, Boqvist, Bouchard, Dobson, and Wahlstrom. So at 11 and 12, there's no guarantee you get any of those players. You're looking at guys like Veleno, Hayton, Wilde, Kupari, Ty Smith, etc. It's not that those aren't good players, but if I'm dealing Price, it's because we're getting a player with a shot at being either a 1C or a 1 LHD. I'd deal Price for a package that includes Robert Thomas or Borgstrom or maybe Vilardi. But I'm hesitant to make the trade for 11 and 12 in a year where the center talent is weak overall. If we were going to deal with the Isles, I'd rather have 11 this year and their 1st rounder next year, to give ourselves another potential shot at Jack Hughes.

 

 

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Bob McKenzie says the Canes are willing to listen for offers for their #2 pick. Their owner wants to make a splash and is open to dealing futures if it gets immediate help. If I'm MB, I'm on that phone discussing any of Pacioretty, Weber, and Price and what we can do to build a deal. Price has his NTC. Weber's coming off injury. So maybe Pacioretty makes the most sense... for a #2 overall, I'd trade him straight up.

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29 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Bob McKenzie says the Canes are willing to listen for offers for their #2 pick. Their owner wants to make a splash and is open to dealing futures if it gets immediate help. If I'm MB, I'm on that phone discussing any of Pacioretty, Weber, and Price and what we can do to build a deal. Price has his NTC. Weber's coming off injury. So maybe Pacioretty makes the most sense... for a #2 overall, I'd trade him straight up.

It would be nice but MB simply won't do it.

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9 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I'd deal Price for a package that includes Robert Thomas or Borgstrom or maybe Vilardi.

Would you trade 3rd overall for Thomas, Borgstromr or Vilardi?   I mean if any of those guys were available this year they'd be a top 3 pick plus they are a little closer to prime-time ready.  

St Louis doesnt have a 1st rounder this year.  Do they do Thomas &  Dunn for 3rd overall ? 

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

Would you trade 3rd overall for Thomas, Borgstromr or Vilardi?   I mean if any of those guys were available this year they'd be a top 3 pick plus they are a little closer to prime-time ready.  

St Louis doesnt have a 1st rounder this year.  Do they do Thomas &  Dunn for 3rd overall ? 

I wouldn't trade the 3rd overall straight up for any of them. I like Thomas and Borgstrom a bit more than Vilardi, but I would consider building a package around one of those players. If you believe Bob McKenzie, he says that scouts tell him Svechnikov and Zadina aren't just going to be top 6 wingers, they're going to be elite scorers at the NHL level. Again, I kind of think of them as potentially being in the same class as players like Bondra, Laine, Hossa, etc. The question is how much you believe Thomas or Borgstrom are likely to be #1 centers in the NHL. I think there's more gamble there than there is with the two scoring wingers, albeit you can argue that hitting on the center position is more valuable than hitting on a winger.

I'd want more than Thomas and Dunn for, say, Zadina. Thomas, Dunn, and a 2nd rounder might do it for me, but again, it comes down to your scouting department and what you think you're getting with Thomas. If you think he's a #1 center down the line, you do it. If not, you don't make any trade that gives up Zadina.

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3 hours ago, Regis22 said:

All the "insiders" seem to think JT will test the market and that he's more likely to leave Long Island than stay, which is a change from what they thought 6 months ago. So we'll see. McKenzie's gut is that he'll go somewhere like SJ or Stl. But Dreger's gut, if Tavares left the Isles, was that he might want to play in Montreal. And PAP, who used to be JT's linemate, apparently made a bet with his dad that he thinks JT will come to the Habs. PAP said he has no inside information but that his gut from knowing Tavares was that he'd want to play for a team like Montreal. Would I call us the favorite? No. But you know we're going to make a big push and offer lots of money. You know McKenzie and others have pointed out JT's love for Canada and the Original 6 and hockey history and playing in a true hockey town. And you have a few people who seem to think JT would choose Montreal based on his personality. So at the very least, I think we'll be in the discussion.

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2 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

All the "insiders" seem to think JT will test the market and that he's more likely to leave Long Island than stay, which is a change from what they thought 6 months ago. So we'll see. McKenzie's gut is that he'll go somewhere like SJ or Stl. But Dreger's gut, if Tavares left the Isles, was that he might want to play in Montreal. And PAP, who used to be JT's linemate, apparently made a bet with his dad that he thinks JT will come to the Habs. PAP said he has no inside information but that his gut from knowing Tavares was that he'd want to play for a team like Montreal. Would I call us the favorite? No. But you know we're going to make a big push and offer lots of money. You know McKenzie and others have pointed out JT's love for Canada and the Original 6 and hockey history and playing in a true hockey town. And you have a few people who seem to think JT would choose Montreal based on his personality. So at the very least, I think we'll be in the discussion.

I honestly think we are the favorite for Tavares

It's the only reason I'm not upset about a full rebuild. You add Tavares, the rookie winger, trade Pacioretty (or Galchenyuk) in a package (with a 2nd round pick) to get a #2 C or a puck moving top 4 LD, and then you hope you could fill that other hole internally (with a surprise or two) or at the deadline. I think we easily make the playoffs and who knows

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TVA Sports reporter Lous-André Larivière compared Plekanec's situation to that of former Expos player Andre Dawson, Dawson signed a discounted deal of only $500,000 with the Chicago Cubs because he absolutely wanted leave Montreal.

Larivière believes that it would be possible to see Plekanec sign a contract between only $1million and $1.75million with bonuses to finish his career and play his 1000th game with the Canadiens.

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Top NHL Insider Bob McKenzie commented on the Pacioretty's situation on his most recent "Bobcast" and it sounds like the captain is gone. 

McKenzie expects the Canadiens to try and trade Pacioretty at the draft and doesn't believe there's any interest to offer Pacioretty any sort of long term contract. 

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7 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Top NHL Insider Bob McKenzie commented on the Pacioretty's situation on his most recent "Bobcast" and it sounds like the captain is gone. 

McKenzie expects the Canadiens to try and trade Pacioretty at the draft and doesn't believe there's any interest to offer Pacioretty any sort of long term contract. 

Sounds good to me, time to move on. Thanks for everything but he's one of the few valuable trade chips we still have and signing him to an extension would be a huge mistake IMO.

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On ‎5‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 2:57 AM, BigTed3 said:

PAP said he has no inside information but that his gut from knowing Tavares was that he'd want to play for a team like Montreal. Would I call us the favorite? No. But you know we're going to make a big push and offer lots of money. You know McKenzie and others have pointed out JT's love for Canada and the Original 6 and hockey history and playing in a true hockey town. 

Another speculative source without substantive proof.  You know, like George "Molson has shut down Bergevin" Laraque.  :4224:  PAP has not been Tavares' teammate since 2012, yet makes it sound like they're close buddies.  Reckons he's just another NHL discard who wants his 5 minutes of attention in the media.

What makes you think Toronto wouldn't offer him more money to play in an English speaking cultural environment, for Mike "best coach" Babcock, alongside the upcoming young guns and less tax?  Or Edmonton offering him the opportunity to play alongside McDavid and spearhead a 2nd Gretzky-esque revival? 

 

14 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Larivière believes that it would be possible to see Plekanec sign a contract between only $1million and $1.75million with bonuses to finish his career and play his 1000th game with the Canadiens.

Pleky doesn't even have to lowball himself.  He possesses veteran character, grinding grit and keeps his mouth shut.  Bergevin will automatically offer him, without asking, $3 million for 6 years.  :6396:

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15 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Top NHL Insider Bob McKenzie commented on the Pacioretty's situation on his most recent "Bobcast" and it sounds like the captain is gone. 

McKenzie expects the Canadiens to try and trade Pacioretty at the draft and doesn't believe there's any interest to offer Pacioretty any sort of long term contract. 

Well, that's good to hear. Nothing against Max, but every inkling of news related to his impending trade is good for Montreal... Assuming MB can make a decent trade. Max has been a great player for the team for many years, but we need to turn him into a solution at center or LD.

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4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Well, that's good to hear. Nothing against Max, but every inkling of news related to his impending trade is good for Montreal... Assuming MB can make a decent trade. Max has been a great player for the team for many years, but we need to turn him into a solution at center or LD.

Whether we rebuild or retool to win now, it makes sense to move him. 

Sad but its the way the game is now. Its a bit too cynical for me sometimes

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

Whether we rebuild or retool to win now, it makes sense to move him. 

Sad but its the way the game is now. Its a bit too cynical for me sometimes

Well, I wouldn't worry too much about the players (e.g. Max). They're paid a lot of money to put up with travel and the possibility of having to move to another city.

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