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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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Interesting article by Brendan Kelly here

He says that he has 'good intel' that MB has told Molson he has the inside track on Tavares.  This makes me think that Brission and MB have talked and that JT is at least interested in Montreal as a destination.  

Fingers crossed.  It also makes me wonder if:  MB doesnt sign Tavares, coupled with the disagreements in the media over the PK rumors a few weeks back, whether Molson would fire MB this summer if he doesnt deliver. 

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

Interesting article by Brendan Kelly here

He says that he has 'good intel' that MB has told Molson he has the inside track on Tavares.  This makes me think that Brission and MB have talked and that JT is at least interested in Montreal as a destination.  

Fingers crossed. 

Again, look at the list of teams who have been rumored to be interested in Tavares:

- Isles

- Habs

- Rangers

- Sharks

- Blues

- Leafs

 

... there are others, but these are the ones you hear about the most. Some teams are simply not in the sweepstakes because they have no cap room or no money to spend or already have a good 1-2 punch at center. Now JT has suggested he'd like to make things work with the Isles, but rumors are that he's leaning more towards leaving now, and "making it work" to him probably means stability in terms of an arena and a team/GM that's committed to winning now by spending money and fixing the goaltender issues. Not so easy.

I've already gone over the Sharks' dilemma, and I really don't think it's a given they'll let Thornton and Kane wait til July 1st to make offers. The rumors are they want both guys back and both guys want to be there. It's a risk to let them wait and go into a bidding war for Tavares.

The Leafs already have Matthews as a 1C and even Tavares isn't going to displace him there. They have to spend money on Matthews and Marner soon, and they need some help on D. I'm not sure Tavares will be a priority for them.

The Rangers are in more of a re-build mode than us right now, with an older goalie and having made more trades to get rid of vets last year. If the argument against us is that we can't win now, the Rangers lose that argument even more.

Stl is also verging on whether to re-tool or go all in. They have a better mix of forward skill than us, but they also have a murky goaltending situation, which is something Tavares is running from. And they don't have the Team Canada stalwarts like Weber and Price that might attract Tavares there.

Again, the odds against us are based on the fact that there are a ton of teams that are going to make pitches for JT. But of all the teams out there, even if each individual team's odds are low, I think ours are as good as anyone else's. Maybe we have a 10% shot at signing him, but I think we're still better than the 5 or 7% shots that other teams might have. As I've argued, we have the history and the fanbase, we have the teammates he knows, we have the cap space, and we have a clear opening for a 1C. There are definitely things in our favor, not to mention any inside track Bergevin has on negotiations because of Brisson.

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23 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Again, the odds against us are based on the fact that there are a ton of teams that are going to make pitches for JT. But of all the teams out there, even if each individual team's odds are low, I think ours are as good as anyone else's. Maybe we have a 10% shot at signing him, but I think we're still better than the 5 or 7% shots that other teams might have. As I've argued, we have the history and the fanbase, we have the teammates he knows, we have the cap space, and we have a clear opening for a 1C. There are definitely things in our favor, not to mention any inside track Bergevin has on negotiations because of Brisson.

Yeah, this to me is it.

I think we have the best chance of any team of signing him.  But in the big picture we still have a lower chance of signing him than one of the other 30 teams combined.   We have a higher chance than probably any other individual team. 

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30 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Interesting article by Brendan Kelly here

He says that he has 'good intel' that MB has told Molson he has the inside track on Tavares.  This makes me think that Brission and MB have talked and that JT is at least interested in Montreal as a destination.  

Fingers crossed.  It also makes me wonder if:  MB doesnt sign Tavares, coupled with the disagreements in the media over the PK rumors a few weeks back, whether Molson would fire MB this summer if he doesnt deliver. 

Ain't gonna happen no matter what IMO.

The only way MB gets fired is if we get a new owner who actually knows what he's doing and who cares intensely about his product. (In Molson's case the CH is his secondary product.)

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Let's change the discussion for a second here. I think we can agree the chances of Tavares coming here are lower than the chance of his not coming here, but I still believe we've got a shot. Let's say for a second that GM and MB know something we don't and they are correct that Tavares is interested in coming here and we do manage to sign him. The question then is what else MB has to do. He can't just sit back and say I've got Tavares, now we're the favorite for the Cup. There's still a lot of work to be done. If you look at the organization depth at that point, you have

C: Tavares, Danault, McCarron, Froese, DLR

LW: Pacioretty, Drouin, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Byron, Carr, Deslauriers, Rychel

RW: Gallagher, Lehkonen, Shaw, Scherbak, Evans, and possibly Zadina if the draft goes according to what most people predict

with some amount of interchangeability among the wingers... AG and Byron can probably play on the right side too. Lehkonen could play the left. On defence,

RHD: Weber, Petry, Juulsen, Benn, Lernout

LHD: Mete, Alzner, Reilly, Schlemko

What's obvious is that despite Tavares, there is a huge hole for a 2C, a need to clear out the dead weight on defence (especially Alzner and Schlemko) and upgrade the left side of the D, as well as a surplus of wingers, particularly on the left. I'm good with Galchenyuk, Hudon, Carr, and Byron down the left side, with one of Pacioretty or Drouin, but I think MP and JD are the two best candidates to move out and get a return for at center or LD. I'm good with Gallagjer, Zadina, Lehkonen, Scherbak down the right side, but again, maybe there isn't a need or a spot for Andrew Shaw. I don't think there will be space for any rookie forwards outside of our #3 pick this year, and there is a definite surplus of wingers as it is. So regardless of whether we sign JT, the situation dictates that someone from the left wing spot has got to go. I highly doubt it will be Drouin. But the odds that it's Pacioretty are likely 75% and the odds it's Galchenyuk maybe around 25%.

 

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I think one of the biggest mistakes we could make would be to move patches if we were  to be able to sign Tavares.

If we don't sign Tavares then lets move on. 

I think they would be a dominating pair for the next 5 years and worth the money. 

Al we would need to work on would be our left dee to be a team that can challenge. 

With the addition of Zadina or Svech this season I am sure we cann add to the left dee by moveing one of the following Galchenyk, Droiun , Lekone or Gallagery Actually Gallager just may be the player that teams are willing to over pay for. 

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I think one of the biggest mistakes we could make would be to move patches if we were  to be able to sign Tavares.

If we don't sign Tavares then lets move on. 

I think they would be a dominating pair for the next 5 years and worth the money. 

Al we would need to work on would be our left dee to be a team that can challenge. 

With the addition of Zadina or Svech this season I am sure we cann add to the left dee by moveing one of the following Galchenyk, Droiun , Lekone or Gallagery Actually Gallager just may be the player that teams are willing to over pay for. 

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I think one of the biggest mistakes we could make would be to move patches if we were  to be able to sign Tavares.

If we don't sign Tavares then lets move on. 

I think they would be a dominating pair for the next 5 years and worth the money. 

Al we would need to work on would be our left dee to be a team that can challenge. 

With the addition of Zadina or Svech this season I am sure we cann add to the left dee by moveing one of the following Galchenyk, Droiun , Lekone or Gallagery Actually Gallager just may be the player that teams are willing to over pay for. 

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I don't get all the love for Galchenyk. This was his 6 season on the NHL. 19 goals in in 82 games. There was 118 forwards with more goals. 51 points in 81 games there were 92 forwards with more points. 

And lets not even get into his defensive game. One of the worst in the league. So if there is some one out there who thinks he is a late bloomer than let them pay through the nose. 

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The Oil have mishandled the PulJarjvi and Klefbom was pretty brutal which may be why they would like a Webber but not why we should want him. Ethan Bear has looked good in the few games he got into and I would want him as a part of any deal.  While there is pressure on the Oilers to move some players after their poor showing I don't see Chiarelli doing anything major. Nuge looked good with MacDavid toward the end of the season and is playing on the same line as him in the worlds and the critics are complaining Puljajarvi was misused and should have gotten a good look with MacDavid. With this in mind I think McLellan is gone before either of those two players. Klefbom needs to have a bounce back year. I think a deal with Calgary is more likely to work a deal with us than Edmonton.

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17 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ Here are my issues, WIndoe:

1. There is no way to measure team chemistry. You called us a poor-chemistry team with Subban, but how do you determine that? Because the coach didn't like him and tried to make his life miserable? That doesn't mean there's poor chemistry, that means we had an ***** for a coach. There is no proof that we had better team chemistry with Weber than with Subban, other than the narrative that Weber is a good old Canadian boy who plays the game the "right" way and Subban is a flashy modern-day player who doesn't keep things simple.

- There is no way to measure team chemistry, but you can take its pulse by listening to the players.  According to the players, Subban was all good for the majority of his time in Montreal, but it got out of hand toward the end.  The team's chemistry got better because Subban left, not because Weber came in (that didn't hurt as he's very well respected).  I'd say Subban is a solid Canadian style player, he innovates, he hits, he has a bomb of a shot, I don't see Weber as any more Canadian than Subban.

17 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

2. Any time a team wins, people say they had great chemistry and when a team loses people say they had bad chemistry. So perhaps the opinion of this is more based on the end results rather than a cause of the results. After this season, Bergevin claimed we had problems with our team make-up and a number of players with bad attitudes. That doesn't sound that great to me. Now is that because the players all didn't get along or is that because players and coaches just get frustrated when they lose games? Now I get the debacle in Philadelphia a few years ago, where one player slept with another player's wife... sure, that's going to cause a rift. I get it when a guy like Sergei Kostitsyn or Mike Ribeiro skips practices or misses team flights or shows up to work hungover and doesn't perform. But PK did none of that, to our knowledge, and he was our best performer on the ice on most nights.

- The team has a general "bad attitude" this year because they're tired of not being given the tools to win, namely centers.  I've too have never heard of PK sleeping with players' wives/girlfriends, and yes I agree he was our best performer on many nights.

17 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

3. You're correct that we have no idea really how Montreal and Nashville would have done without Subban, but the fact remains that the Habs with Subban got to an ECF and haven't made it that far with Weber. And the Preds with Subban made a Cup final, which Weber never came close to. So no, you can't measure all the variables that go into that, but what we can say is that Subban's presence on the team did nothing to hinder the team from performing as well or better than it did with Weber. So the whole idea of Subban ruining team chemistry and bad team chemistry leading to team failure is garbage. Subban has won a Norris and been nominated for another this year. He's one of the best players in the NHL and has the basic and advanced stats to back that up. His teams have experienced decent amounts of team success. So there is zero proof that he is a hindrance and more evidence to suggest he helps teams win. Ditto for Phil Kessel, who was blamed for Toronto's failures for several years and then became one of the key contributors to the Pens winning back to back Cups. Skilled players help you win games. They can't do it by themselves, and you certainly need more than one Subban or one Kessel to propel your team to a Cup victory, but Subban is better than Weber and the idea that Weber's reputation as a good guy balances out Subban's talent is hogwash.

- Subban is a better player than Weber.  He has been for awhile, and he will be for the rest of both of their careers.  Also true, Subban was on the Habs team that made it to the ECF.  Also true that he was a big part of that run.  He was also a Hab for the next two years of decline.  Just as we can't attribute the ECF run to Subban, we also can't attribute the following two years' decline to Subban.  He's just one player.  Similarly to Nashville's finals run, and 2nd round exit.  He's on the team.  He's not the team. And because it is a team sport, chemistry is important.  You need a high level of both to win the Cup.  Talent is first, but chemistry is 2nd.  PK's huge chemistry problem overwhelmed his talent levels, and we had to trade him.  Unfortunately we only got Weber back and did not take either the rumoured Edmonton or Vancouver deals.  

17 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

4. This team also misses Radulov, who played with skill and effort almost every night. That was never replaced. He was a character guy and a leader, but more than that, he could play hockey. You know who else had character and were good teammates and tried hard every night: Brandon Prust and Travis Moen and Torrey Mitchell and Hal Gill and Francis Bouillon... but we don't miss those guys all that much because they're not as skilled and just didn't contribute as much to team success. They're role players, they filled the role they were asked to, but they have less impact on team success than a Radulov, Subban, or Weber. The things that make Weber valuable are his shot, his ability to score on the PP, his experience/smarts on the ice, and his body positioning to protect the puck. If what made him special was character and being a good teammates, then players like Gill and Prust would be just as valuable. They're not.

- Funny those are the five players you mention ;)

Absolutely.  Skill trumps chemistry.  But chemistry is still important. 

How about this...let's say Subban, in his last year on the Habs, had skill of 10/10 and chemistry of 2/10.  Now since skill is more important, let's assign it twice the weight.  So for skill Subban has 20/20 and for chemistry, still important but not as important, let's keep that at 2/10.  Add it up and Subban gets 22/30 points in his last year with the Habs.  Now let's say Weber has 7/10 for skill, which we'll double up to 14/20, but he's got an 8/10 for chemistry...that gives Weber also 22/30 points.

Some players must be removed.  Sleeping with the wives is a classic line in the sand as an example (not Subban's path to 2/10 chemistry).  However they get down to 2/10 on the team chemistry level, they end up getting a change of scenery.  It can be 2/10 with their teammates, or their management, or both.  

 

 

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15 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I also believe we should look at trading Price, Pacioretty, and Weber... but I think the targets should be teams that are close to winning now and who may be willing to overpay for a chance that the player puts them over the top or at the very least gets them into the playoffs or a round or two further than they otherwise might have gone. I don't think Vancouver fits into that category for now, and I doubt they'd want to give up two 1st rounders. Likewise, I don't think we'd give up our 2019 and 2020 1st rounders to acquire Matt Duchene or Nik Backstrom or so on; I just don't think we're close enough to gamble our future like that. I think teams like Calgary, St. Louis, Edmonton, Florida, Carolina, Dallas, Philadelphia, Columbus, Vegas, and San Jose are more of those playoff-caliber teams who are on the uptick and might feel they can benefit from a boost to push them farther. Those are the teams I'd try to target first. Already-competitive teams like Nashville, Pittsburgh, Washington (especially if they lose Carlson), and Toronto might also be interested in some of our veterans. I also wonder if Buffalo might be willing to grab someone because they want to accelerate their recovery, having Eichel and likely Dahlin already. Best fits?

 

- Pacioretty to Calgary, Edmonton, Florida, LA, or Carolina.

- Weber to Edmonton, Toronto, Philly, or Vegas.

- Price to Carolina, Edmonton, Buffalo, Philly, St. Louis, or NYI.

 

Right now, I really love the idea of dealing with Carolina or Edmonton. Carolina's owner is desperate to make a splash and seemingly willing to trade prospects for an established veteran. And Dudley may be of the Bergevin mindset, having been one of his top advisors, and overvalue the likes of Weber or Price. Likewise, Edmonton is desperate to try and win now with McDavid and company in their prime, and their GM has a history of making very bad trades. Those are two organizations with lots of young blue chip prospects who can probably be exploited in a trade. It sounds like it'll be harder to convince Florida or St. Louis to part with a key prospect, for example.

With the exception of the fact that Price has to approve any trade, dealing him to Carolina just makes a lot of sense for us. It gives the Canes an instant star and a splash to help them get to the playoffs. But something like the 2nd overall and Jake Bean for Price could make sense for both teams. If they want us to take Darling off their hands, then you ask for another piece.

Pacioretty to Carolina also makes some sense, as does Pacioretty to Calgary. But the team most likely to be able to re-sign him long-term, if you believe the rumors, is Florida. If you wait til July 1st and allow Florida to negotiate an extension with him, it might increase his value. If they can do that, they might be more willing to part with Borgstrom. My ask for Pacioretty would be Borgstrom and their 1st round pick in 2019, which again, is more than fair when you consider what players like Kane, Nash, and so on have fetched before.

And as for Weber, Edmonton would be my go-to target first. Toronto makes a lot of sense, especially with Babcock's history of drooling over Weber, but again, Edmonton has made it clear their priority this off-season is an offensive RH D man and they may go to great lengths to solve that problem. Again, I would try to push them for a package including their 10th overall pick and Klefbom (whom they want to get rid of) or Nurse, along with another piece like Puljujarvi, and I'd be willing to give up one of our 2nd rounders or another player like Shaw or Byron or Scherbak to make that happen.

That would mean that dealing Weber, Price, and Pacioretty, we could theoretically end up with a haul including Jake Bean, Svechnikov, Borgstrom, Puljujarvi, Klefbom, a 10th overall pick (to turn into a player like Dobson, Veleno, Hayton, or so on), and a 2019 1st rounder. Again, this is obviously all hypothetical, but while some people are going to suggest the trade returns are not realistic, the fact is that these returns are consistent with what other teams have paid for like players in the past. All three of our guys have strong trade value if you believe NHL insiders, and pulling in a haul like that for three guys heading towards the end of their primes before they get to that point could help to reset us in a big way and make us competitive maybe not in the next 2 years but certainly in 3 years, 5 years, and 7 years from now.

 

All good ideas imo

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14 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I love your thinking Ted. I was really, really hoping Bergevin was going to be fired this season, leaving the door open to a new GM to begin rebuilding in this manner.

Unfortunately, Molson has determined that keeping Bergevin for another season is the best next step. I cannot imagine him doing anything more than trading Pacioretty... and perhaps Galchenyuk because... well... Galchenyuk. I would love to use Price, Weber, and Pacioretty to begin a rebuild by netting ourselves a haul of picks and good young players.

I think its our only realistic path to the Cup 

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11 hours ago, maas_art said:

Interesting article by Brendan Kelly here

He says that he has 'good intel' that MB has told Molson he has the inside track on Tavares.  This makes me think that Brission and MB have talked and that JT is at least interested in Montreal as a destination.  

Fingers crossed.  It also makes me wonder if:  MB doesnt sign Tavares, coupled with the disagreements in the media over the PK rumors a few weeks back, whether Molson would fire MB this summer if he doesnt deliver. 

I hope very much that's the situation.  Get Tavares here, or you're gone and we're rebuilding with someone else. 

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9 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Let's change the discussion for a second here. I think we can agree the chances of Tavares coming here are lower than the chance of his not coming here, but I still believe we've got a shot. Let's say for a second that GM and MB know something we don't and they are correct that Tavares is interested in coming here and we do manage to sign him. The question then is what else MB has to do. He can't just sit back and say I've got Tavares, now we're the favorite for the Cup. There's still a lot of work to be done. If you look at the organization depth at that point, you have

C: Tavares, Danault, McCarron, Froese, DLR

LW: Pacioretty, Drouin, Galchenyuk, Hudon, Byron, Carr, Deslauriers, Rychel

RW: Gallagher, Lehkonen, Shaw, Scherbak, Evans, and possibly Zadina if the draft goes according to what most people predict

with some amount of interchangeability among the wingers... AG and Byron can probably play on the right side too. Lehkonen could play the left. On defence,

RHD: Weber, Petry, Juulsen, Benn, Lernout

LHD: Mete, Alzner, Reilly, Schlemko

What's obvious is that despite Tavares, there is a huge hole for a 2C, a need to clear out the dead weight on defence (especially Alzner and Schlemko) and upgrade the left side of the D, as well as a surplus of wingers, particularly on the left. I'm good with Galchenyuk, Hudon, Carr, and Byron down the left side, with one of Pacioretty or Drouin, but I think MP and JD are the two best candidates to move out and get a return for at center or LD. I'm good with Gallagjer, Zadina, Lehkonen, Scherbak down the right side, but again, maybe there isn't a need or a spot for Andrew Shaw. I don't think there will be space for any rookie forwards outside of our #3 pick this year, and there is a definite surplus of wingers as it is. So regardless of whether we sign JT, the situation dictates that someone from the left wing spot has got to go. I highly doubt it will be Drouin. But the odds that it's Pacioretty are likely 75% and the odds it's Galchenyuk maybe around 25%.

 

Exactly.  If we get Tavares, then MB will be able to and should flip a 1LW or 1RW for a 2C as we've got 3 wingers who've each put 30 goals in fairly recently to dangle. 

 

 

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Montreal Canadiens fans are still hoping that Joel Bouchard will join the franchise some time over the next few days and we got an update regarding the situation today.

Yvon Pedneault wrote in the Journal de Montréal that Marc Bergevin had actually met Bouchard and that the decision was now in the hands of Armada's boss.

Pedneault added that none other than Dominique Ducharme was also present at this important meeting proving that the Canadiens are doing everything possible to convince Bouchard to continue his career in the NHL.

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There have been a lot of rumors about Max Pacioretty over the last few months, and a TSN analyst has just added fuel to the fire as Scott Cullen released his summer plans for the Canadiens.

Cullen believes that Pacioretty could be shipped off to Florida in a deal that would bring 6'6" center Nick Bjugstad to Montreal.

Bjustad is a 25-year-old right-hander who can play both center and on the wing. He had a total of 19 goals and 30 assists in 82 games this year.

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1 hour ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I got looking at the Off Season game-plan for Arizona and got wondering if Chayaka would do this:

To MTL: Oliver Ekman-Larsson, Christian Dvorak, Dylan Strome, ARI's 1st 2020

To ARI: Max Pacioretty, Andrew Shaw, Karl Alzner, David Schlemko

LOL ........you're asking for three young guy's and 1 st  for  MAX and a bunch of no body's

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10 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

There have been a lot of rumors about Max Pacioretty over the last few months, and a TSN analyst has just added fuel to the fire as Scott Cullen released his summer plans for the Canadiens.

Cullen believes that Pacioretty could be shipped off to Florida in a deal that would bring 6'6" center Nick Bjugstad to Montreal.

Bjustad is a 25-year-old right-hander who can play both center and on the wing. He had a total of 19 goals and 30 assists in 82 games this year.

Ugg. I hope not.  Bjugstad is fine but he's not really that young and at 25 I dont see him really getting a whole lot better.  He's a 2nd line centre and while thats not bad, one would hope that Pacioretty, one of the top goal scorers in the NHL for the past 6 years, could get you more than that. 

Maybe Id consider Bjugstad + plues their #1 pick this year (15th overall) but id really rather trade for a  couple of top quality prospects instead. 

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