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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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52 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Both of those trades make sense not only for us, but also the other teams.  Carolina would theoretically be much better and Edmonton's defense would be night and day better with everyone shifting down.  With the returns from those 2 guys we should be well on our way to a solid retool (no need for a full rebuild) and could already be competitive next year.

The biggest stumbling block is MB though. I cant see him trading Weber or Price.  In fact, if i was to list the roster in reverse order of whom i think may be traded they would be right down at the bottom, near the likes of Drouin and Mete.  

 

Its so frustrating that a quick retool is almost certainly possible with this roster but with MB at the helm we will not see it, unless he had a major epiphany this year.  Instead we'll probably add Toews and Suter at the expense of guys like Galchenyuk, Sherbak and Hudon probably. 

Right. I think MB is more likely to try and acquire a Tavares, Toews, TJ Brodie, Simmonds, RNH, or Brodin and believe he should go all in now with Price and Weber rather than trading those guys before their stock completely plummets. I think he's willing to give up Galchenyuk and Scherbak and prospects and his 2nd round picks. I think he's looking to make a hockey trade for Pacioretty and get a veteran back rather than going after younger players in return. Completely misguided because he has no perspective on how badly he's missed in building this roster.

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More rumors:

- Coyotes and OEL apparently in discussions re: an 8-year contract extension, rumored to be in the range of 8M+ per year. If he signs that, it would likely be a framework for a similar contract for John Carlson.

- Stl Today write Jeff Gordon speculates that Paul Stastny might be an option for the Blues at center, as might Derick Brassard via trade. He estimates Stastny might be looking for a 3-year deal worth 5M a season, which would likely be too much money for the Jets to afford with all their young stars.

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21 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Shifting the topic for a moment, some more interesting rumors coming out of potential trade partners:

- Don Wadell in Carolina gave an interview saying the team hasn't made the playoffs in 9 years and that means that change is needed. He says all players are basically open for discussion but that they're pleased with some of the young guys in their organization, like Aho and also Necas, whom the team believes will make the jump to the NHL next year. He adds that for now, the team is planning on keeping the #2 overall pick and that they think they will have a guy who is also playing in the NHL next season, unless a monster trade offer comes along. What was most interesting is that he commented on the goaltending situation by saying "we can't go into next season with the same two guys we had last year" (referring to Darling and Ward). He said Darling showed up out of shape and never found his form but that they've given him an off-season workout regimen and hop he'll bounce back (which makes it sound more like they plan on retaining him but dumping Ward). He stated the team is primarily looking for goaltending help and that he's let other teams know that he's interested in any guy other teams want to deal who could be a #1 in Carolina... for what it's worth, trading Carey there just seems like such a good fit for both teams. They need a starting goalie, Carey may benefit from a fresh start, and the Habs need young NHL-ready prospects like Svechnikov, Necar, Bean, or Fleury for example to fill multiple holes.

- Second, reporter Ryan Rishaug was on radio in Edmonton and suggests the team is ramping up activity to find an upgrade on defence, ideally a RHD. He threw out the possibility of the team dealing Klefbom AND the #10 overall pick to make this happen and wondered about that combination being dealt for a guy like Ristolainen from Buffalo. Now Weber is significantly older than Ristolainen but if you believe the other rumors about Edmonton, they want to win now, so he's still potentially a fit there and he could bring back more than what Ristolainen would in a trade. So again, not unreasonable to think about Weber + a 2nd for 10th overall, Klefbom, and Puljujarvi for example...

I can't see Price wanting to go to a team that is/will be years away from winning the cup.

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2 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I can't see Price wanting to go to a team that is/will be years away from winning the cup.

 

2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

I thought he was already there?  :frech1:

Unless we add Tavares, I think the Canes are closer than us. Maybe Price would want to move to a team out of the spotlight, and the Canes have an owner who may be a little misguided but certainly seems like he wants to spend and bring in players to win now. Could be worse for Carey. You look at most of the "contending" teams right now, and a lot of them already have goalies: San Jose, Anaheim, LA, Vegas, Nashville (arguably, Rinne might be moved but they seem content Suaros will be good too), Chicago (assuming Crawford is healthy), Toronto, Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Tampa, Columbus, etc.

Who are the teams with an outside shot at a Cup run who could use a goalie? Edmonton, Calgary, St. Louis, Philadelphia, the Isles, and Carolina... maybe Dallas or Florida want an upgrade. Maybe Buffalo thinks they're going to leapfrog everyone, but probably not for a year or two at least. When you look at that collection of teams, there aren't any teams that you would say are on the verge of winning and just need a goalie. They're all a little bit of a gamble. The question becomes whether Carey is set on keeping his family in Montreal or whether he wants to be closer to home in BC or whether he'll simply go anywhere reasonable to get out of here or to get away from the media frenzy.

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14 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

Unless we add Tavares, I think the Canes are closer than us. Maybe Price would want to move to a team out of the spotlight, and the Canes have an owner who may be a little misguided but certainly seems like he wants to spend and bring in players to win now. Could be worse for Carey. You look at most of the "contending" teams right now, and a lot of them already have goalies: San Jose, Anaheim, LA, Vegas, Nashville (arguably, Rinne might be moved but they seem content Suaros will be good too), Chicago (assuming Crawford is healthy), Toronto, Boston, Washington, Pittsburgh, New Jersey, Tampa, Columbus, etc.

Who are the teams with an outside shot at a Cup run who could use a goalie? Edmonton, Calgary, St. Louis, Philadelphia, the Isles, and Carolina... maybe Dallas or Florida want an upgrade. Maybe Buffalo thinks they're going to leapfrog everyone, but probably not for a year or two at least. When you look at that collection of teams, there aren't any teams that you would say are on the verge of winning and just need a goalie. They're all a little bit of a gamble. The question becomes whether Carey is set on keeping his family in Montreal or whether he wants to be closer to home in BC or whether he'll simply go anywhere reasonable to get out of here or to get away from the media frenzy.

Yah, i could see Carey being interested in going to Edmonton.  I could actually see Chiarelli being interested i acquiring him too.  I cant see MB moving him but you never know.    Draisaitl for Price 1 for 1? 

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the sad thing is that I think its pointless to talk about trading Price. I absolutely think we should sell if we don't get Tavares but I don't think Bergevin will ever do that. Bergevin is capable of giving up on a season at the deadline but he doesn't give up on seasons before they start. Its just not in his makeup to rebuild or not play for today. 

I just don't think any of this is going to happen and all we can hope for is getting Tavares and him building a contending team around (which I think he MIGHT be able to pull off).. but rebuild is just not gonna happen. 

If it could I'd trade Price (and sweeten if necessary with secondary players) and take back Darling (salary dump), Necas, and their second overall. Then I'd try to trade one of those picks down to pick up a prospect and draft another (one C and one D), use the other to draft Zadina.... but this is all fantasy, he well never rebuild and will look like a complete idiot unless he manages to sign Tavares. 

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10 minutes ago, habsisme said:

the sad thing is that I think its pointless to talk about trading Price. I absolutely think we should sell if we don't get Tavares but I don't think Bergevin will ever do that. Bergevin is capable of giving up on a season at the deadline but he doesn't give up on seasons before they start. Its just not in his makeup to rebuild or not play for today. 

I just don't think any of this is going to happen and all we can hope for is getting Tavares and him building a contending team around (which I think he MIGHT be able to pull off).. but rebuild is just not gonna happen. 

If it could I'd trade Price (and sweeten if necessary with secondary players) and take back Darling (salary dump), Necas, and their second overall. Then I'd try to trade one of those picks down to pick up a prospect and draft another (one C and one D), use the other to draft Zadina.... but this is all fantasy, he well never rebuild and will look like a complete idiot unless he manages to sign Tavares. 

Agreed on Bergevin. A large part of it is that he's already going into season 7 of his tenure, so to announce he's starting a re-build now means he's going to get 9-10 years in without much to show for his work. That's why it was imperative to have changed GM's.

Not sure Carolina will deal Necas, if you read into recent reports of how they see him being a key member of the roster this coming year. But if they do, I'd take him. and if they don't, I'd certainly go hard after Hanifin, Bean, and/or the 2nd overall as part of some type of deal.

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On 5/16/2018 at 4:49 AM, Manatee-X said:

Windoe, habsisme, I'll ask again: working under the assumption that he was in fact disliked, why does that matter?  Why did we need to trade him, versus just telling the other players to suck it up and do their jobs like adults?  We obviously didn't get the better player in the deal.  By our own GM's admission our biggest team problem is still "attitude" so it doesn't seem to have fixed our supposedly terrible chemistry.  And most important of all, since we traded him we've done nothing but lose.

If he wasn't liked, does that somehow make this trade more justifiable?  I just don't see the relevance.

We actually began losing with PK, we missed the playoffs and then PK was traded.  The next year we made the playoffs.  

I agree, we definitely did not get the better player in the deal.

PK was the chemistry problem a few years back in his last year in Montreal.  Separately, is the current attitude problem, which does exist, but its developed from frustration.  Namely, being asked to win night after night without the proper tools.  You can only squeeze and squeeze so much, until there's nothing left.  The players were happy to be done with this season.  MB is on very thin ice.

Team chemistry is important.  Its why teams do things like go on chartered fishing trips.      

 

 

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On 5/16/2018 at 4:43 AM, BigTed3 said:

 

There is zero doubt in my mind, zero, that management disliked Subban. Therrien has pretty much flat out said it on television. His actions and those of Bergevin spoke very loudly in that regard. I think that had a lot to do with Subban being traded.

There is also strong evidence that many of Subban's teammates liked him. I'll throw this out: for all the people who are married here, how many co-workers of yours did you invite to your wedding that you really hated, that you just couldn't stand? If guys like Markov or Pacioretty despised Subban, why invite him to your wedding but not invite 15-20 other guys from the team? If you really hated someone, why hang out with them outside of work and go to their apartment to hang out and go out for dinner? Why? The argument you guys are making is that all/most of the Habs players hated Subban but were sadistic enough to continue to seek out his company outside the rink when they weren't forced to. That's bizarre.

So why wasn't Subban voted for the Clancy here? I don't know. He should have been. But here's a more plausible theory... since MB and MT took over, it was clear there were two young stars (outside of Price, who was ineligible to become captain) who could be seen as leaders of the team: Pacioretty and Subban. The fans loved Subban, Subban loved the camera, and management had a personal vendetta against Subban to put him in his place and take away any sense that there were players who were better-liked than others. The coach even said this when he told Price and Subban to stop doing the triple low-five, stating that he didn't want individualistic celebrations. So if your management, what do you do? You bash Subban every chance you get and you promote the other guy. So after a year or two of your coach and GM telling everyone Subban is trash and Pacioretty is a real leader, then yeah, the vote is going to get swayed somewhat. The vote for captain. The vote for the Clancy. I don't think that means players hated Subban, I just think the notion that Pacioretty was the team's true leader and a great guy were hammered into them by management over and over. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Bergevin and Therrien actively discouraged players from voting for Subban for captain, maybe not by name, but by saying "we can't have players who put themselves above the team" and "the Habs' identity is to win as a group" and "selfish players are hurting us." All narrative, but if that's how the tale is spun to you, you're going to have some doubts. Maybe you still like Subban at a personal level, but you also don't want to create ruffles with the coach and the GM who decide your fate and the captain who you also like.

So tell me, if your boss came along to you and said I really want "Max" to win employee of the year this year, this other guy "PK" is really hurting us because he's not a team player. You can vote for whoever you want, but just remember I decide who gets the year-end bonuses and the best work shifts and so on... you wouldn't be influenced in the least? I put this on management, not on players hating Subban outside of maybe a select 2-3 guys.

Its starting to sound a bit JFK, single bullet-ish.   The captaincy vote was anonymous and the players enjoyed not voting for PK.

Why is it important to you that the majority of Subban's teammates liked him in his last year with Montreal?

 

 

 

 

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On 5/16/2018 at 8:44 AM, Disillusioned1 said:

I'll say this.  Let's operate on the assumption that Subban isn't well liked, hurts locker room chemistry, that character is important and we had to get rid of him, then why did we trade for Drouin?

We traded a top end prospect in a position we ended up desperately needing for a malcontent who doesn't even play the other position we need.  So we needed to get rid of our baggage to are perfectly fine with other teams' baggage (even in division)?  As trades go it was alright, but let's not pretend there aren't "additional considerations" there.

Doesn't stop there does it?  Why did we need Steve Ott.  Why Andrew Shaw?  So that's what it comes down to.  Every trade this team makes, we clearly can't keep it performance only.  That's not fine even when it's an even trade.  That's definitely not fine when we're on the losing side of a lopsided trade.  And since they clearly can't win without Subban, that's not fine.

Drouin is not disliked by his current teammates.

We didn't need Steve Ott, or Andrew Shaw imo.

We didn't win with Subban, nobody has.  

 

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On ‎2018‎-‎05‎-‎18 at 5:22 AM, Windoe said:

Drouin is not disliked by his current teammates.

We didn't need Steve Ott, or Andrew Shaw imo.

We didn't win with Subban, nobody has.  

 

And Subban is not disliked by his current teammates, what's your point?  

I actually had meant to reply that last time you mentioned "we lost even with Subban" which is at best half-truth, but decided against it because it was quite a few posts back.  But since you brought it back up again I'll play.  This team never was as deep as the Washington, Pittsburgh, Boston or lately Tampa and the standings largely reflected that.  We were potential contenders but never the outright favorite even in the east.  It still needed a 1C and in basically every year since, secondary scoring.  However, at least the key pieces were there and one huge one was PK Subban.  In 2013-2014 we were third in division behind Boston and Tampa, "upset" both but lost in the eastern conference finals after Chris Kreider ran Carey Price and Subban played very well, almost a point a game in the playoffs.

In 2014-2015 we were first in division but only 2 points ahead of Tampa and unfortunately matched up against Tampa (who went all the way to the finals) in round 2.  It was upsetting that we lost but not exactly an upset.  We (especially Subban) did very well limiting Stamkos, Palat and Johnson but Nikita Kucherov did a number on us and we didn't have the secondary scoring (gasp) to do that back to them.  Aside from game 4, in the other 5 games we scored a grand total of 8 goals.

In 2015-2016,  that was the year we were dedimated by injuries.  Price was out for the season by November 25 and we were running Mike Condon and Ben Scrivens.  Gallagher missed 29 games.  Petry 31.  Beaulien 18.  Heck, Subban himself missed 14 games.  But apparently we can't win without Subban as if none of the other things happened.

Now let's examine 2016-2017.  Despite Weber not missing many games and the signing of Radulov (who played fantastic), it took a hot start and Price's 3 trophies performance for us not to miss the playoffs.

Fact of the matter is, since Subban become a key member of this team, we had a winning record every year except as noted, the injury prone 2015-2016 season.  More importantly we were contenders, long shot, but at least contenders.  Without Subban we're at best, a borderline playoff team.

 

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I know we all see what we want to see, and some people are unbending in their opinions even when backed by stats, so let's try to recognize that fact when responding to other members.

Someone mentioned that this is the rumours thread and that we have really strayed off topic. I would have to agree. If anyone wants to continue this (friendly) discussion, please feel free to open up a Subban vs Weber thread. Thanks

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Who thinks JT will now stay on the Island

According to reports, former Maple Leafs general manager Lou Lamoriello will join the New York Islanders’ front office, where he is expected to take over the team's hockey operations.

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8 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Who thinks JT will now stay on the Island

According to reports, former Maple Leafs general manager Lou Lamoriello will join the New York Islanders’ front office, where he is expected to take over the team's hockey operations.

Tough to say.  I think if he was really unsure then maybe it would play a role.  My guess is that if he's made it this far (without signing) he wont sign now.  Its why trading players rights almost never worked out (and hasnt been done often recently): once a player makes up their mind to go UFA they usually want to actually "experience" it.  I mean its got to be kind of a rush to have huge contracts coming in from multiple sources. 

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Just wondering, and I know it would be a "stretch" but, is there any way we could use him?

“Following extensive discussions with Mark, he and @MapleLeafs have mutually agreed to part ways,” said Brendan Shanahan. “I’d like to sincerely thank Mark for everything he’s done for this organization over the last four years and I wish him nothing but the best in the future.”

Hunter was passed over recently for the position of Leafs GM, with the job instead going to Kyle Dubas. It’s unclear whether Hunter will go on to another NHL job, or return full-time to his duties running the Knights.

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Maybe, but the Leafs recent drafts don't exactly wow me outside the first round. Matthews was a no brainer at #1 and Liljegren seems like a solid pick. All credit for the Marner/Nylander picks but they didn't exactly go out on a limb there. To Hunter's credit apparently Babcock wanted Hanifin and Hunter was the guy that pulled for Marner. It's too early to declare one the better player, but at this point in their careers I'd take Marner every time without a second thought. However, outside those high 1st round picks there's not much besides Dermott. That's not really "bad" and you can't expect a scouting staff to hit on every second round pick but it doesn't exactly wow me and make me think Hunter is a drafting guru the Habs should instantly back up the money truck for. 

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San Jose has reportedly re-signed Evander Kane to a deal for 7 years in the range of 7M a season, according to multiple sources. As I went over before, this is going to make it very challenging for them to sign Tavares, unless they forego Thornton or unless they trade someone else.

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7 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

San Jose has reportedly re-signed Evander Kane to a deal for 7 years in the range of 7M a season, according to multiple sources. As I went over before, this is going to make it very challenging for them to sign Tavares, unless they forego Thornton or unless they trade someone else.

I think they will wait to sign Thornton and only do it if they can't get Tavares. I had the impression that Thornton made it clear he would stay and would take a pay cut and didn't want to go anywhere else

I wish we'd know before the draft because I'd want different things if Tavares was coming, like packaging 2 of those second rounders for a player for example. 

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To recap, if the Sharks/Kane deal is confirmed as rumored, then SJ will have 67.5M spent on 7D, 12F, and 2G, but that would include a number of ELC players who may not make the team. The team still needs to re-sign Hertl and potentially Thornton. I know people have said they could just let Thornton walk, and they could, but they'd likely need to make that decision without knowing whether Tavares is coming there and then risk ending up with neither a la Marc Bergevin. So that's not to say SJ's out on Tavares, but they'd likely need to move someone like Pavelski or Martin or Boedker at the very least to make it happen.

Right now, if I were putting odds on where Tavares goes, I'd rank it

1. New York Islanders

2. Las Vegas

3. Montreal

4. New York Rangers

5. St. Louis

6. Nashville

7. Toronto

8. Buffalo

9. New Jersey

10. Florida

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