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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Also, to further clarify the Martin McGuire rumor about Pacman to LA, he's added that Pacman will travel to LA to negotiate a contract extension after the draft... LA is a tricky destination, because I have very little interest in getting a guy like Toffoli or Muzzin back. I want Vilardi or I want a 1st rounder as part of a deal, otherwise I don't think they have what we want...

Agreed and I just cant see why they would trade Vilardi for... basically anyone.  I guess the only question would be if they think they have one more cup in them with this roster & you mortgage the future (Vilardi) to do win NOW (pacioretty) but i think we'd have to throw something else in (2nd rounder?) 

A lot of the rumours suggest people are pushing MB hard for 3rd overall but he's not interested in dealing that unless it means a different top 6-7 pick coming back with an asset. Thats good news.  The other nice thing is that it sounds like (as you mentioned) we're trying hard to get a second top 20 pick.  Thats great.  Looks like Timmins is very active this year, maybe MB will finally let him do his thing & not micromanage. It would be great to get another haul like our 2007 draft.

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According to sources, Kovalchuk's agent will meet with the top 4 contenders for his services, rumored to be LA, Vegas, SJ, and Bos. Dennis Bernstein of the fourth period adds that LA unlikely to make a move on Pacioretty unless they've been ruled out of the Kovalchuk sweepstakes.

Bottom line is that a Pacioretty trade may be more towards late June or July 1st rather than today, unless it's with a team which wants to make a move around a draft pick (be it them dealing us a 1st or us throwing in a 2nd with Pacman).

Buffalo is apparently still set on getting another 1st rounder for ROR and have told their scouts to be prepared to draft another guy in the 1st round, but it would be utterly ridiculous for us to deal the 3rd overall for him and in any case, Buffalo gave up two prospects who were already questionably failures, Zadorov, and a 2nd rounder to get ROR. They apparently want s similar deal to what Phi got for Mike Richards and are asking for a top-tier prospect, 1st rounder, and another piece, but that's ridiculous, given that they gave up less than that to get ROR when he was a few years younger. Not a realistic ask from Buffalo, and if they can't get off that, there won't be a deal.

Edmonton continues to shop their 10th overall, but they want an offensive D men and we don't have a guy who fits that bill unless we're parting with Weber (I'm assuming they don't want Petry back).

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18 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Apparently Florida is still interested in Pacioretty, even after adding Hoffman.

There's some talk we're looking at 15th overall + _____ for patches.  It sounds like Timmins really wants another top 20 pick. 

 

As he should. The first round is deep this year. There's your top guy (Dahlin), your next guy (Svech), then about 8 guys in that next group, then another group of about 10 really solid prospects, then then another 20-30 guys... our 35th and 38th picks probably have similar value to a 25th-31st pick int he first round in that one team's rank order could have those players in any order, but if you can get into the top 20, you're into another tier. Not worth trading up to 26 or 30 IMO but worth getting another pick in the 5-20 range.

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Dennis Bernstein, who follows the Kings for the fourth period, suggests that we won't get Vilardi for Pacioretty, but that we could ask for Jarret Anderson-Dolan, the 20th overall pick, and a roster piece. JAD is a prolific scorer in junior but he's on the smallish side as well. Stature wise, he reminds me a lot of Koivu. It's an interesting trade proposal, because I think JAD at least has a chance of being a top 6 center, and again, you can definitely grab a useful player with the 20th overall. I might propose something like

Pacioretty and the 56th overall pick for JAD, 20th overall, and Adrian Kempe.

Alternative ask, if they aren't willing to part with Vilardi is Kale Clague... Pacioretty for Clague + 20th overall would also be something to consider.

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3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Dennis Bernstein, who follows the Kings for the fourth period, suggests that we won't get Vilardi for Pacioretty, but that we could ask for Jarret Anderson-Dolan, the 20th overall pick, and a roster piece. JAD is a prolific scorer in junior but he's on the smallish side as well. Stature wise, he reminds me a lot of Koivu. It's an interesting trade proposal, because I think JAD at least has a chance of being a top 6 center, and again, you can definitely grab a useful player with the 20th overall. I might propose something like

Pacioretty and the 56th overall pick for JAD, 20th overall, and Adrian Kempe.

Alternative ask, if they aren't willing to part with Vilardi is Kale Clague... Pacioretty for Clague + 20th overall would also be something to consider.

Id definitely look hard at any of those.  IMHO Pacioretty needs to turn into one of:
 

- 1 for 1 immediate young(ish) roster player  (ie  Patches for ROR straight up) i know ROR is 28 but what im NOT looking for a 32 year old centre. 

- 1 for 1 elite prospect (ie Patches for Vilardi or Thomas one for one)

- Package deal including top pick and prospects, one of which must be LD or C.  

 

 

 

 

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21 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Craig Anderson has requested a trade out of Ottawa... seems like everyone wants out of there. What a disaster.

Such a mess.  You would have thought that with the Hoffman thing done, they could clear the air & move on.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Such a mess.  You would have thought that with the Hoffman thing done, they could clear the air & move on.

Dorion apparently stated something to the effect of "I had to trade Hoffman. The locker room was broken." There seems to have been a lot more going on there than anyone knew, which is what was alluded to by insiders as well... rumored that there are other issues with internal problems on the Sens on top of what we already know.

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Kevin Allen reporting the Rangers may be a team interested in moving up from #9 in order to grab an elite scorer at #2 or #3 or a top D man if they move up a few picks.

Stan Bowman has stated he'd also be interested in moving up from 8 but that "no one in the top 7 has been overly interested in trading back."

Arizona also has been in the rumor mill to trade up with us.

Edm shopping their 10 pick but for D help. NJ has stated they will take offers on 17. LA seems willing to discuss 20. And a few teams have multiple firsts...

There seem to be ways of getting a second pick in the first round or of moving back if we're really not set on Zadina.

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16 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Kevin Allen reporting the Rangers may be a team interested in moving up from #9 in order to grab an elite scorer at #2 or #3 or a top D man if they move up a few picks.

Kyle Medeiros has an interesting article at EOTP where he suggests that there isnt a huge difference between the #3-10 prospects in the long term so trading with NY for their #9 could be a good long-term solution.  He suggests either 3rd for 9th + 26th   or, 3rd for 9th + Hayes or Spooner.  

Its an interesting idea but I personally would want a little more of a guarantee. We're giving up on a pretty much cant-fail spot for a riskier pick (even if you think one of the guys we're targeting will still be available at #9). 

I might consider 3rd overall + one of our seconds for 9th, 26th and Hayes.   It gives us a good #2 centre, one of the guys we're targeting with our #3 (although not a sure thing like Zadina) and another first rounder. 

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12 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Kyle Medeiros has an interesting article at EOTP where he suggests that there isnt a huge difference between the #3-10 prospects in the long term so trading with NY for their #9 could be a good long-term solution.  He suggests either 3rd for 9th + 26th   or, 3rd for 9th + Hayes or Spooner.  

Its an interesting idea but I personally would want a little more of a guarantee. We're giving up on a pretty much cant-fail spot for a riskier pick (even if you think one of the guys we're targeting will still be available at #9). 

I might consider 3rd overall + one of our seconds for 9th, 26th and Hayes.   It gives us a good #2 centre, one of the guys we're targeting with our #3 (although not a sure thing like Zadina) and another first rounder. 

At 3 you're getting your choice of Zadina or JK or Tkachuk or Hughes, let's say. At 9, you're probably getting none of those guys. You're probably getting someone along the lines of Dobson, Bouchard, Boqvist, or Wahlstrom. Maybe you reach for Veleno, Hayton, or Kupari as a center, but you're almost certainly not getting your first choice of prospect. So what makes it worth it to give up Kotkaniemi to take Veleno or Hayton instead? What makes it worth it to go from Zadina to Boqvist or Bouchard or so on? I think you'd need more than #26 or Hayes. You're giving up the more elite piece in that trade. If you think JK is getting comparisons to Barkov, Kopitar or Toews and Hayton is more like a Mike Richards, then what makes that swap worth it to you? The Habs so desperately need a 1C that I'm just not sure there's something the Rangers could give up to make it worth it to us.

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9 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

At 3 you're getting your choice of Zadina or JK or Tkachuk or Hughes, let's say. At 9, you're probably getting none of those guys. You're probably getting someone along the lines of Dobson, Bouchard, Boqvist, or Wahlstrom. Maybe you reach for Veleno, Hayton, or Kupari as a center, but you're almost certainly not getting your first choice of prospect. So what makes it worth it to give up Kotkaniemi to take Veleno or Hayton instead? What makes it worth it to go from Zadina to Boqvist or Bouchard or so on? I think you'd need more than #26 or Hayes. You're giving up the more elite piece in that trade. If you think JK is getting comparisons to Barkov, Kopitar or Toews and Hayton is more like a Mike Richards, then what makes that swap worth it to you? The Habs so desperately need a 1C that I'm just not sure there's something the Rangers could give up to make it worth it to us.

I think the real question is what Timmins thinks is out there.    In his article Medeiros ranks Zadina, Hughes, Tkachuk, Wahlstrom, Boqvist, Kotkaniemi, Dobson, and Bouchard as top 10 picks (after the first 2 locks) with little variance between them.    If Timmins agrees and thinks that most of those guys are interchangeable in terms of how they would fit into long term our plans, then its a consideration. Some of the guys (like Tkachuk and Zadina) rank higher than they might because of their NHL readiness. Its entirely possible that one of the defensmen would be as good if not better, but will take longer to develop.  I am not sure which has more value to this organization right now. It seems like they are looking at this draft as a way to restock the cupboards. 

in any event, I highly doubt MB would play such a risky deal but its an interesting proposal.  Id be more comfortable trading down to 4-7th of course, since you know you'll get one of your guys in that spot if you have no plans to draft Zadina. 

 

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Dreger says Skinner could be close to being traded. Says 3 teams in mix. Figure it's a very similar market for Pacioretty, so hopefully Bergevin's in on same teams too.

Friedman says he wouldn't be surprised if Mtl has spoken to the Isles about trading Max for pick #11. He says uncertain whether Isles have interest in Max, because some sources say yes and others say no. He'd be a key add for them though if they can do it ASAP to help convince Tavares. Friedman says for sure Habs are trying to get a second 1st rounder and in that 10-15 range is likely where they want to be.

IMO, Bergevin really needs to try to get what he wants done before the draft starts though. You go for ROR now, the market is probably a little smaller... fewer teams willing to trade for him now before his 7.5M bonus is due. Fewer teams may be in until they know they're out on Tavares. Chances are asking price only goes up after July 1st... if it's a second pick he wants, again, better to act now. If you know you have a second choice in the 8-15 range, you can almost certainly find a center like Hayton or Veleno or Kupari. And if you know the odds are good for that, maybe it makes it an easier decision to opt for Zadina over Kotkaniemi. Not much point in picking Kotkaniemi and then taking Kupari or Hayton too when you already have Poehling. I'd rather go Zadina + Veleno for example then Kotkaniemi plus one of Farabee or Noel or Denisenko. Zadina is just considered to be so much more elite than that next tier of wingers, whereas Kotkaniemi is the highest-ranked center but not head and shoulders clearcut above the rest.

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33 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I think the real question is what Timmins thinks is out there.    In his article Medeiros ranks Zadina, Hughes, Tkachuk, Wahlstrom, Boqvist, Kotkaniemi, Dobson, and Bouchard as top 10 picks (after the first 2 locks) with little variance between them.    If Timmins agrees and thinks that most of those guys are interchangeable in terms of how they would fit into long term our plans, then its a consideration. Some of the guys (like Tkachuk and Zadina) rank higher than they might because of their NHL readiness. Its entirely possible that one of the defensmen would be as good if not better, but will take longer to develop.  I am not sure which has more value to this organization right now. It seems like they are looking at this draft as a way to restock the cupboards. 

in any event, I highly doubt MB would play such a risky deal but its an interesting proposal.  Id be more comfortable trading down to 4-7th of course, since you know you'll get one of your guys in that spot if you have no plans to draft Zadina. 

 

I would absolutely trade down to 4th, 5th, and maybe 6th. I think there, you still get one of Zadina, Kotkaniemi, Hughes, or maybe Tkachuk. When you get down to 9 or 10, you're getting a player who's still solid but with less of a ceiling. Hayton is maybe a 2C but not much potential for being a 1C if you believe the scouting. Dobson is a bit of a late riser based on the QMJHL playoffs but he's still a bit of a an awkward skater to me. Bouchard is viewed as a solid 2nd or 3rd D man but not many view him as a #1.

I think 3-10 are all close in that group, in that one team might view a guy as 3 and another team might have him at 7 or one team might have a guy at 5 and another team at 10. But in terms of where the Habs are, a potential 1C or sniper or #1D are worth more than a solid 2-3 D man. They need a guy with a high ceiling. So sure, I'd consdier dropping down, but the add-on to the trade has to be huge for me to move out of top 5.

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7 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

I just listened to that TFP guy on TSN , he was suggesting Patch for Muzzin and that JAD kid

I'd pass on that. Don't have any interest in a 29-year old Muzzin. We need to rebuild with a younger core and MP should get us a younger asset. I have interest in JAD, but he's also a smaller guy and might end up having difficulty at the NHL level. These LA writers have suggested they want Pacioretty because they desperately need a first-line winger to play with Kopitar, but they don't want to give up Kempe or or Clague or Vilardi or their 1st rounder (even though it's a low first-rounder). Well news flash to LA, the Habs have a ton of 2nd rounders and can probably find a guy close to JAD this year who'd only be one year further away. There needs to be way more than that in a trade, and it can't come in the form of a aging veteran. That's the opposite of what Mtl needs right now. If LA wants a 1st line player, even if he is on an expiring contract, they'd need to pay more. Look what Boston gave up for the older Rick Nash for just two months of use. Look what Evander Kane ended up getting Buffalo, even if it was conditional, with Kane being a less talented and more risky player than Pacioretty. To me, if the starting point is JAD (which is fine with me), the trade also has to include their 1st or Clague. Otherwise it needs to include Vilardi. I have zero interest in anything else LA has to offer.

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9 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I gotta wonder, since the only bigger tire fire than us right now is Ottawa, I’m wondering if Pierre Dorian would trade us Matt Duchene for a 1st in 2019?

im hopeful we will rebound this year but just in case I dont think it would be a good idea to trade our 1st next year... 

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Francois Gagnon says Habs currently mulling over offers to trade down from Ari, Det, and Chi... so lots of options for Habs here. I worry about Det and Chi plucking Kotkaniemi. At 5, you still have at least two of Zadina, Tkachuk, Kotkaniemi, and Hughes there. Safer place to land if Ari offers a decent asset.

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