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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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John Carlson signs for 8 x 8 years. With him off the market, people think the Sens are going to make a killing trading Karlsson. So I ask this: is this not the perfect time to trade Shea Weber?

Look at the rest of the UFA class. Mike Green, Jack Johnson, Dan Hamhuis, Tobias Enstrom, Kevin Bieksa... people are fawning over Calvin de Haan and apparently he's already been contacted by ten teams or more, because he might literally be the best D man in the UFA class. Know how many defencemen UFA's there are who are under 30 and scored at least 20 points last year? Three. Kevin Connauton, Ian Cole, and Thomas Hickey. That's it, that's all.

I take from that two things: one, that MB isn't going to find help for his terrible blue line on the free agency market, nor did he draft anyone who's going to be NHL ready, so he really isn't going to fix his blue line this year unless he's trading for help. Teams aren't really going to be accepting prospects to trade away their top 4 D men right now, so he's going to have to deal a Pacioretty or Gallagher or so on to find help. And so without 1-2 top 4 D men and without 2 top 6 centers, there's just no way I can see MB making this team competitive, and he may as well start dealing veterans to build for the future (which doesn't have to be more than 1-3 years away).

And two, that Weber blows all those free agents out of the water. There are other teams exactly like us looking at the UFA class and wondering how the heck they're going to fill out their line-up. The Isles, for example, were apparently desperate to get Carlson, especially with Trotz knowing him. They need help on D badly, and with JT still out there, acquiring Weber would be huge for them. Maybe they give up more than they should because they know it lands them not only Weber but Tavares back.

We need big help at multiple positions. By the rule of supply and demand, Weber is going to have huge value now, and it's only going to drop over time. You can trade him to fill multiple holes in your line-up with younger skill players. It's a must-do for a smart GM, and if you get rid of Weber, you can extend Pacioretty and not feel pressured to make a bad trade with him.

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6 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

According to Adrian Dater of BSN Denver, just as he reported earlier in the year, the Canadiens are at the top of Stastny's preferred destinations. 

Dater states that Montreal is higher on the list than Winnipeg at the moment, with the Colorado Avalanche also pretty high on there. 

While Stastny is getting up there in age at 32 years old, when healthy he can still produce, he put up 53 points last year split between St. Louis and Winnipeg and put up 15 points in 17 playoff games for the Jets which included three game winning goals. 

Most importantly, Stastny can get it done in the face off circle, he has a career 53% win percentage and has hovered around the 55% mark the last couple of seasons. 

It sounds like a few people could be a little high in this report. we are likely to pay him and Patches so much it eats up our current surplus. Unless Statsny will sign for less or Patches goes to say Vegas:6396: I don't see both being here next year. or beyond 

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34 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

John Carlson signs for 8 x 8 years. With him off the market, people think the Sens are going to make a killing trading Karlsson. So I ask this: is this not the perfect time to trade Shea Weber?

Yes, yes, yes.

You would think this would be obvious to management too.  If we just drafted Kotkaniemi as our centre of the future and we have a plethora of young wingers and bottom 6 forwards, wouldnt it make sense to move Weber (and Petry actually) now? While their value is high.  Neither is getting any younger and even if you think they are both excellent right now, there cant be anyone who thinks they still will be in a couple of years time, when the rest of the team has caught up.   

If they felt we were competitive right now they would have drafted a walk-on ready player like Zadina or Tkachuk, right? 

Frankly, we should move anyone over 26/27 right now.   Weber, Petry, Patches, Price, Byron etc. etc. 

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35 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

John Carlson signs for 8 x 8 years. With him off the market, people think the Sens are going to make a killing trading Karlsson. So I ask this: is this not the perfect time to trade Shea Weber?

Look at the rest of the UFA class. Mike Green, Jack Johnson, Dan Hamhuis, Tobias Enstrom, Kevin Bieksa... people are fawning over Calvin de Haan and apparently he's already been contacted by ten teams or more, because he might literally be the best D man in the UFA class. Know how many defencemen UFA's there are who are under 30 and scored at least 20 points last year? Three. Kevin Connauton, Ian Cole, and Thomas Hickey. That's it, that's all.

I take from that two things: one, that MB isn't going to find help for his terrible blue line on the free agency market, nor did he draft anyone who's going to be NHL ready, so he really isn't going to fix his blue line this year unless he's trading for help. Teams aren't really going to be accepting prospects to trade away their top 4 D men right now, so he's going to have to deal a Pacioretty or Gallagher or so on to find help. And so without 1-2 top 4 D men and without 2 top 6 centers, there's just no way I can see MB making this team competitive, and he may as well start dealing veterans to build for the future (which doesn't have to be more than 1-3 years away).

And two, that Weber blows all those free agents out of the water. There are other teams exactly like us looking at the UFA class and wondering how the heck they're going to fill out their line-up. The Isles, for example, were apparently desperate to get Carlson, especially with Trotz knowing him. They need help on D badly, and with JT still out there, acquiring Weber would be huge for them. Maybe they give up more than they should because they know it lands them not only Weber but Tavares back.

We need big help at multiple positions. By the rule of supply and demand, Weber is going to have huge value now, and it's only going to drop over time. You can trade him to fill multiple holes in your line-up with younger skill players. It's a must-do for a smart GM, and if you get rid of Weber, you can extend Pacioretty and not feel pressured to make a bad trade with him.

Excellent points, I agree, now is a great time to move Weber for a real return.  

It sure doesn't look like JT is coming to MTL, so let's start loading up on picks, prospects, and prospective rentals for our veterans.  

NYI has been making alot of good moves lately.

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4 minutes ago, Windoe said:

Excellent points, I agree, now is a great time to move Weber for a real return.  

It sure doesn't look like JT is coming to MTL, so let's start loading up on picks, prospects, and prospective rentals for our veterans.  

NYI has been making alot of good moves lately.

Right. I think the only exception to trading Weber/Price/Pacioretty was if you could lure JT here. That would have been a game changer and causes you think about putting more chips into the pot now. But barring that, you fold this hand. It just makes sense.

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10 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yes, yes, yes.

You would think this would be obvious to management too.  If we just drafted Kotkaniemi as our centre of the future and we have a plethora of young wingers and bottom 6 forwards, wouldnt it make sense to move Weber (and Petry actually) now? While their value is high.  Neither is getting any younger and even if you think they are both excellent right now, there cant be anyone who thinks they still will be in a couple of years time, when the rest of the team has caught up.   

If they felt we were competitive right now they would have drafted a walk-on ready player like Zadina or Tkachuk, right? 

Frankly, we should move anyone over 26/27 right now.   Weber, Petry, Patches, Price, Byron etc. etc. 

It seemed like JT was the last hope, and with that all but over, the Kotkaniemi signing would indicate we're going ahead with a proper rebuild.  Makes sense for the aging vets to be moved out for picks and prospects like you say.

 

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Just now, BigTed3 said:

Right. I think the only exception to trading Weber/Price/Pacioretty was if you could lure JT here. That would have been a game changer and causes you think about putting more chips into the pot now. But barring that, you fold this hand. It just makes sense.

Exactly

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totally agree with everyone here.  I would move Weber, Price and Pacioretty 100%

I don;t think its smart to trade everyone but for sure everyone is available at the right price. But I would like to keep Gallagher and Petry... when these young guys come in, they need people to play with too

I'm afraid we're going to sign Stastny to a long term deal

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Right. I think the only exception to trading Weber/Price/Pacioretty was if you could lure JT here. That would have been a game changer and causes you think about putting more chips into the pot now. But barring that, you fold this hand. It just makes sense.

Even then though, we've made other moves that made no sense.  If we felt like we had a shot at Tavares (and you'd have to think MB knows one way or the other being such good friends with Brisson) we shouldnt have:

- Traded Galchenyuk for another LW.
- Picked a centre who is probably 2 years away from playing in the NHL rather than sign a winger who could step in next year
- Addressed our hole at LD via either Galchenyuk or Pacioretty trades

 

None of those happened so you have to think we're not planning on getting Tavares so, let the offers on Weber (and Petry, and Price and Byron and anyone over 27/28) come in... 

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44 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Looks like MB is not even getting a meeting with Tavares :lol:

Hey Marc, any idea why?

LeBrun says the 5 teams are TB, Dal, SJ, Bos, and Tor (in addition to the Isles). Apparently, he will also have phone conversations with a couple of other teams (rumored to be Nas and Vegas). According to Andy Strickland and Renaud Lavoie, the Habs have been told they are not being considered and have actually been made aware of this "a while ago." If you believe some of the rumors going around the radio, one source has stated that the reason Tavares crossed the Habs off his list is because of the way his good friend PK Subban was treated by Bergevin. That's a real character move from Tavares to stick up for his buddy, something Bergevin would probably covet in a player if it weren't for the fact that he's what they're sticking up against.

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It's exactly at this moment that I hate MB. Unlike most people here, I even somewhat understood the PK trade and I'm just kind of happy Chucky is gone, even if it's not the return I would have wanted. But this is the point that is truly a no brainer..... no Tavares, no chance in hell (it would have been an uphill battle WITH him)... so LET'S REBUILD! You gotta play the hand your dealt and right now is an OPPORTUNITY to rebuild. Trade those expensive aging vets and get some real assets back! 

A lot of teams who made the room for Tavares and Carlson aren't going to get him. Maybe they want Weber now, or some of them might need goaltending. And we clearly have the ability to take on bad contract if there is only 1 or 2 years remaining... DO IT! This is when, in my opinion, there is just no excuse, no knowledge that I might be ignorant of, he should just do it! But this management and ownership does not believe in the rebuild, and what a year to do it as well (with Hughes). Its just sad to waste this opportunity when all we'll do is miss the playoffs and get a pick in 10-15 and everyone knows it

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44 minutes ago, habsisme said:

It's exactly at this moment that I hate MB. Unlike most people here, I even somewhat understood the PK trade and I'm just kind of happy Chucky is gone, even if it's not the return I would have wanted. But this is the point that is truly a no brainer..... no Tavares, no chance in hell (it would have been an uphill battle WITH him)... so LET'S REBUILD! You gotta play the hand your dealt and right now is an OPPORTUNITY to rebuild. Trade those expensive aging vets and get some real assets back! 

A lot of teams who made the room for Tavares and Carlson aren't going to get him. Maybe they want Weber now, or some of them might need goaltending. And we clearly have the ability to take on bad contract if there is only 1 or 2 years remaining... DO IT! This is when, in my opinion, there is just no excuse, no knowledge that I might be ignorant of, he should just do it! But this management and ownership does not believe in the rebuild, and what a year to do it as well (with Hughes). Its just sad to waste this opportunity when all we'll do is miss the playoffs and get a pick in 10-15 and everyone knows it

I just wonder, when you look at a few key things, whether we are in fact looking at a rebuild :

- Rumors are that we wont have a meeting with Tavares.  Earlier this summer MB and Molson both hinted they were going to try to get him, so you know they were interested.  MB and Brisson (Tavares' agent) are good friends.  Presumably MB would have known for a while whether he had a shot at JT or not. Since we didnt, does that mean MB changed his game plan? 

- Instead of signing an NHL ready winger (Zadina, Tkachuk etc) we went with a 17 year old centre who even the most optomistic think wont be ready for 1-2 more years at best. 

- We traded Galchenyuk for Domi (who is only a year younger, but is futher behind on contacts and games played - meaning he'll be around longer than Alex who might well have left in 2 years as an UFA).

- We had deals fall through with San Jose and LA for Pacioretty - both of which were rumored to involve non roster prospects

- We talked to Buffalo about ROR but had no interest in moving draft picks for him, only roster players.

- We completely gutted our development team and brought in some of the most highly touted coaches available. 

 

This sounds like a team entering a rebuild.   Of course there are some big concerns, namely:

- Why is Weber's name not in rumors?  Price?   Even guys like Petry and Byron, who are still very useful now, will likely be on the decline when our centres include Kotkaniemi-Poehling-Olofsson-Danault.  

- Is Marc Bergevin really the best man for the job?  Its a rhetorical question - i think almost all of us agree on the answer

 

Will they do a proper rebuild?  Time will tell but im not optimistic. My worry is that we're going to go into "transition mode"  because MB is so worried about icing a competitve team in the meantime.  We will keep Weber. We will keep Price. We will sign Statsny and/or Bozak.  We will also do good things like trading Patches for prospects and moving some assets for more picks, but just prolonging the rebuild does not help anyone.  Sure, maybe you win a few more games this year but you end with a worse draft pick.  Maybe you make the playoffs but you have no real shot of winning so why not go full rebuild?  

 

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1 minute ago, maas_art said:

I just wonder, when you look at a few key things, whether we are in fact looking at a rebuild :

- Rumors are that we wont have a meeting with Tavares.  Earlier this summer MB and Molson both hinted they were going to try to get him, so you know they were interested.  MB and Brisson (Tavares' agent) are good friends.  Presumably MB would have known for a while whether he had a shot at JT or not.

- Instead of signing an NHL ready winger (Zadina, Tkachuk etc) we went with a 17 year old centre who even the most optomistic think wont be ready for 1-2 more years at best. 

- We traded Galchenyuk for Domi (who is only a year younger, but is futher behind on contacts and games played - meaning he'll be around longer than Alex who might well have left in 2 years as an UFA).

- We had deals fall through with San Jose and LA for Pacioretty - both of which were rumored to involve non roster prospects

- We talked to Buffalo about ROR but had no interest in moving draft picks for him, only roster players.

- We completely gutted our development team and brought in some of the most highly touted coaches available. 

 

This sounds like a team entering a rebuild.   Of course there are some big concerns, namely:

- Why is Weber's name not in rumors?  Price?   Even guys like Petry and Byron, who are still very useful now, will likely be on the decline when our centres include Kotkaniemi-Poehling-Olofsson-Danault.  

- Is Marc Bergevin really the best man for the job?  Its a rhetorical question - i think almost all of us agree on the answer

- Will they do a proper rebuild?  Time will tell but im not optimistic. 

 

Especially Price! That contract is going to kill us and there is no way he will be very good in 4 years when we might have a chance to win something. Same for Weber, because we could get good assets for both of them, but at least in Weber's case, I'm confident we could move him to a team that needs to hit the floor, even if he's terrible in 4 year (his actual salary will be much lower than his cap hit. But Price we will be stuck with.... why take the risk??? We are not winning. A miracle season would be be making it to the second round of the playoffs, it's just not worth it! 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

LeBrun says the 5 teams are TB, Dal, SJ, Bos, and Tor (in addition to the Isles). Apparently, he will also have phone conversations with a couple of other teams (rumored to be Nas and Vegas). According to Andy Strickland and Renaud Lavoie, the Habs have been told they are not being considered and have actually been made aware of this "a while ago." If you believe some of the rumors going around the radio, one source has stated that the reason Tavares crossed the Habs off his list is because of the way his good friend PK Subban was treated by Bergevin. That's a real character move from Tavares to stick up for his buddy, something Bergevin would probably covet in a player if it weren't for the fact that he's what they're sticking up against.

WHAT!?!

No way - everybody hates PK!

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

It's exactly at this moment that I hate MB. Unlike most people here, I even somewhat understood the PK trade and I'm just kind of happy Chucky is gone, even if it's not the return I would have wanted. But this is the point that is truly a no brainer..... no Tavares, no chance in hell (it would have been an uphill battle WITH him)... so LET'S REBUILD! You gotta play the hand your dealt and right now is an OPPORTUNITY to rebuild. Trade those expensive aging vets and get some real assets back! 

A lot of teams who made the room for Tavares and Carlson aren't going to get him. Maybe they want Weber now, or some of them might need goaltending. And we clearly have the ability to take on bad contract if there is only 1 or 2 years remaining... DO IT! This is when, in my opinion, there is just no excuse, no knowledge that I might be ignorant of, he should just do it! But this management and ownership does not believe in the rebuild, and what a year to do it as well (with Hughes). Its just sad to waste this opportunity when all we'll do is miss the playoffs and get a pick in 10-15 and everyone knows it

"Wasted Opportunity" are probably the two words that best encapsulate Bergevin's tenure.  I've got a tiny bit of hope that he'll wise up and make the trades you suggest (plus guys like Petry, Byron, etc.), but I honestly just don't see it happening.

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Let's take an honest look at the UFA market. There's very little there. As I've said, without two top 6 centers and a top pairing LHD, this team is going nowhere, so any move MB makes either in free agency either has to be signing an older player to a short-term deal (3 years or less, which is really hard to negotiate with anyone of any talent) or signing a player who's 27 or younger. And who is 27 and able to score, outside of Tavares: no one. Even in the RFA category, there are better players, but given the Habs need to keep their picks, this isn't really the time to be signing someone and giving up 1st rounders. So trading remains the best option. And if you're going to trade, you can't trade away futures for win-now players with a roster that can't win now, so the only legit solution is to trade away veterans before they lose value. If we retain players 26 and under, it leaves us with a partial roster of

 

Drouin-XXX-XXX

Domi-XXX-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw

Hudon-Evans-Scherbak

Carr-DLR

 

Mete-XXX

XXX- Juulsen

Rielly-Lernout

 

Plenty of holes to fill, but also plenty of ammo to trade with, if you think of Pacioretty, Weber, Petry, Byron, Price, Schlemko, Alzner, Benn, etc. as being expendable.

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Drouin-XXX-XXX

Domi-XXX-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw

Hudon-Evans-Scherbak

Carr-DLR

 

Mete-XXX

XXX- Juulsen

Rielly-Lernout

 

Plenty of holes to fill, but also plenty of ammo to trade with, if you think of Pacioretty, Weber, Petry, Byron, Price, Schlemko, Alzner, Benn, etc. as being expendable.

Bingo.   And while  its unlikely you're going to effectively fill all of those xx's with individual trades, you can at very least bring in some young players & look to the future. 

Fill those holes with young, fast, talented players and I almost guarantee that this would be a more fun team to watch, and they would probably sell more tickets.  And, you never know, they may just surprise. 

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19 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Bingo.   And while  its unlikely you're going to effectively fill all of those xx's with individual trades, you can at very least bring in some young players & look to the future. 

Fill those holes with young, fast, talented players and I almost guarantee that this would be a more fun team to watch, and they would probably sell more tickets.  And, you never know, they may just surprise. 

It's funny, but you're right on.  Even if a team like this would probably have a worse record than one in which we bring all those veterans back, it's also a team that I would actually tune in to watch.

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14 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

Gross.

 

Yeah. How do you support this or overlook it?

And how can you legitimately consider this after telling fans you shipped out Subban and Kassian and Kristo and Beaulieu and DSP for character reasons?

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