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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

#Character

Its not ok to get assaulted by your girlfriend (Chucky)

But it is ok to assault your wife.

 

The good news for us is that as a right handed shot, I dont think we actually have any interest. 

Its not the same thing. Chucky repeatedly partied and didn't achieve 

Voynov did 1 thing 1 time (as far as we know) and from what I understand was quite good. I also believe he played the left side with Doughty

Still, I'd rather a rebuild

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57 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Well he might actually be useful, no? I don't care about his personal life unless its repeat behavior. Unless you want to execute him, he has the right to redeem his life from one bad night

Athletic normally has a paywall but this one is open: https://theathletic.com/401952/2018/06/21/what-nhl-teams-considering-signing-slava-voynov-should-know/ I implore you to read it through. I don't care one iota if he would or would not be useful to the team. 

To summarize, he got in an argument with his wife at a party and punched her in the jaw. When they got home he choked her, screamed at her, smashed her head repeatedly into the floor. Then when she stood up he pushed her into the wall and cut her head open on the glass of a TV, and screamed at her while he continued kicking and hitting her for 20+ minutes before police arrived (because the screaming was loud enough to make neighbours fear for her safety), all in front of their 7 year old daughter. She was then taken to the hospital and nurses judged this was not the first time he was violent with her, and she needed stitches and medical treatment. It isn't a momentary lapse of judgment or one bad night. He beat her senseless for a half hour and her screams were loud enough to alert neighbours.

It was also absolutely not a 1 night thing, the police report cites nurses saying she herself said it was not the first time and he's been aggressive with her in the past. That just isn't how spousal abuse works, a caring partner does not just have a bad day and decide suddenly to beat their partner senseless for a half hour, choke them, scream at them, kick them, punch them in the jaw, slam their head into the floor, or shove them into the wall and cut their head open. Get too drunk and say something hurtful? That's a one time mistake. Fail to plan ahead and drive drunk once? That's a one time mistake. Beating your wife for a half hour is the culmination of a long pattern of escalating abuse that starts small and steadily grows. 

He spent two months in jail and chose to go back to Russia instead of facing immigration court. In the past 3 years he's got to play on a stacked KHL team, been paid a reported ~4.5M/yr salary, and was the MVP of the Olympics this year. Second chances are for someone like Johnny Manziel who liked to party too much and didn't take his job seriously, or for Zack Kassian who had substance abuse and addiction issues, or for someone like Alex Radulov who skipped curfew to go out drinking in his early 20s. Not for a guy who put his wife in the hospital after beating her up and screaming at her loudly enough for the neighbours to call police, and was "punished" by continuing to play professional hockey for millions of dollars in a world-class city and continuing to get to play in the Olympics and internationally. 

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14 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

Athletic normally has a paywall but this one is open: https://theathletic.com/401952/2018/06/21/what-nhl-teams-considering-signing-slava-voynov-should-know/ I implore you to read it through. I don't care one iota if he would or would not be useful to the team. 

To summarize, he got in an argument with his wife at a party and punched her in the jaw. When they got home he choked her, screamed at her, smashed her head repeatedly into the floor. Then when she stood up he pushed her into the wall and cut her head open on the glass of a TV, and screamed at her while he continued kicking and hitting her for 20+ minutes before police arrived (because the screaming was loud enough to make neighbours fear for her safety), all in front of their 7 year old daughter. She was then taken to the hospital and nurses judged this was not the first time he was violent with her, and she needed stitches and medical treatment. It isn't a momentary lapse of judgment or one bad night. He beat her senseless for a half hour and her screams were loud enough to alert neighbours.

It was also absolutely not a 1 night thing, the police report cites nurses saying she herself said it was not the first time and he's been aggressive with her in the past. That just isn't how spousal abuse works, a caring partner does not just have a bad day and decide suddenly to beat their partner senseless for a half hour, choke them, scream at them, kick them, punch them in the jaw, slam their head into the floor, or shove them into the wall and cut their head open. Get too drunk and say something hurtful? That's a one time mistake. Fail to plan ahead and drive drunk once? That's a one time mistake. Beating your wife for a half hour is the culmination of a long pattern of escalating abuse that starts small and steadily grows. 

He spent two months in jail and chose to go back to Russia instead of facing immigration court. In the past 3 years he's got to play on a stacked KHL team, been paid a reported ~4.5M/yr salary, and was the MVP of the Olympics this year. Second chances are for someone like Johnny Manziel who liked to party too much and didn't take his job seriously, or for Zack Kassian who had substance abuse and addiction issues, or for someone like Alex Radulov who skipped curfew to go out drinking in his early 20s. Not for a guy who put his wife in the hospital after beating her up and screaming at her loudly enough for the neighbours to call police, and was "punished" by continuing to play professional hockey for millions of dollars in a world-class city and continuing to get to play in the Olympics and internationally. 

Okay.... that is definitely worse that I thought it was and I don't believe for a second that it was a one time incident (and even if it was, it went on long enough and it was severe enough to not be a momentary lapse in judgement)

I will still play devil's advocate (maybe quite literally) - and this isn't a point about hockey at all - what are people who do terrible things supposed to do? If we want to lock them up for the rest of their lives then let's make laws like that, or maybe we can just execute them! But at some point, if you're going to free them, they have to be allowed to live their lives. I don't think we can demonize people forever and if there is an issue with the law, then we should change the law, not take it out on some but not others. 

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Yeah, I don't understand how someone could rationally equate "partying" as being worse than assaulting another person.  Full stop.

Being good at hockey is one thing, but this team couldn't have looked at Hoffman... Hell this team couldn't take a flyer out on McDavid if this were him in this situation.  Everything Bergevin has done is in the name of character.  Everything.  That's his hill.  That's the one he's chosen to fight for and to die on.  With all of Bergevin's rhetoric, even talking to Voynov's camp should be cause for termination.

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14 minutes ago, Litany said:

Yeah, I don't understand how someone could rationally equate "partying" as being worse than assaulting another person.  Full stop.

Being good at hockey is one thing, but this team couldn't have looked at Hoffman... Hell this team couldn't take a flyer out on McDavid if this were him in this situation.  Everything Bergevin has done is in the name of character.  Everything.  That's his hill.  That's the one he's chosen to fight for and to die on.  With all of Bergevin's rhetoric, even talking to Voynov's camp should be cause for termination.

I don't know anyone who did that, nor do I think MB is doing that. 

Its about character in the room, it's not about morality. I mean honestly, even after reading that article, I would bet that the majority of owners are worse people than Voynov... ask the poor people of Michigan what they think about their tax dollars going to a new arena while they cant get access to clean water, or have lost their pensions... and yet we all still watch hockey and feed these poor excuses for human beings. I promise they have caused more human suffering that Voynov ever could. 

I don't really want this deal either but its because I want a rebuild. The character issue is relevant but its not the same thing and it doesn't effect the room the same way. Its okay if you want to hate him (I'm glad most of you do) but its just not the same thing and I don't think we should pretend it is. Character doesn't mean all things about someone's character - only what applies to hockey and the room. 

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47 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I don't know anyone who did that, nor do I think MB is doing that. 

Its about character in the room, it's not about morality. I mean honestly, even after reading that article, I would bet that the majority of owners are worse people than Voynov... ask the poor people of Michigan what they think about their tax dollars going to a new arena while they cant get access to clean water, or have lost their pensions... and yet we all still watch hockey and feed these poor excuses for human beings. I promise they have caused more human suffering that Voynov ever could. 

I don't really want this deal either but its because I want a rebuild. The character issue is relevant but its not the same thing and it doesn't effect the room the same way. Its okay if you want to hate him (I'm glad most of you do) but its just not the same thing and I don't think we should pretend it is. Character doesn't mean all things about someone's character - only what applies to hockey and the room. 

Okay but what is this "character" that's afflicting the locker room?  Let's say Subban was not well liked, why was Chucky traded?  Let's say Chucky was a problem, what problem did Bergevin have with Eller?  What about Kassian?  He didn't play a single game so how did he affect the locker room?  What about Tinordi?  He got called up all of what, less than 30 games so when did he even get a chance to affect the locker room?  Yet we found out he had a substance abuse problem and traded him for John Scott whom I'd literally have take a bag of pucks over.

I get what you're saying, on ice/team vs. off ice/team problems.  But clearly to Bergevin it never was an in or out of the locker room problem.  So calling him a hypocrite would be putting it very mildly.

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25 minutes ago, Disillusioned1 said:

  Let's say Subban was not well liked, why was Chucky traded? 

Came home late one night with DSP  and his GF punched him the face. Also sounds like dad was too involved

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27 minutes ago, Disillusioned1 said:

  What about Kassian?  He didn't play a single game so how did he affect the locker room? 

MB was disappointed in him being out late in a car involved in an accident

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18 minutes ago, Disillusioned1 said:

Okay but what is this "character" that's afflicting the locker room?  Let's say Subban was not well liked, why was Chucky traded?  Let's say Chucky was a problem, what problem did Bergevin have with Eller?  What about Kassian?  He didn't play a single game so how did he affect the locker room?  What about Tinordi?  He got called up all of what, less than 30 games so when did he even get a chance to affect the locker room?  Yet we found out he had a substance abuse problem and traded him for John Scott whom I'd literally have take a bag of pucks over.

I get what you're saying, on ice/team vs. off ice/team problems.  But clearly to Bergevin it never was an in or out of the locker room problem.  So calling him a hypocrite would be putting it very mildly.

I don't agree with him either in most of those cases. I would have moved Chucky though and I am notorious around these parts for arguing that PK was not liked by his teammates (that's 'character') and I base it wholly on the Clancy nomination. 

Nonetheless I agree with you in general. For MB he focuses on certain parts of character... Personally the guys we've traded, I always felt like they loved playing for Montreal the most and as a fan I really appreciated that but our GM does not

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12 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

eklund says we are actively pursuing jack johnson and are gonna give him a solid contract 

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=93595&blogger_id=1

Yeah I feel like this is going to happen. I haven't read any credible rumours but I just have this feeling they will, same feeling this time last year where I just knew they were going to sign Alzner.

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Meh, Voynov sucks anyways. I always thought he got more attention than he deserved when he was with L.A.

As mentioned above, I agree that there is a difference between personal character and hockey character. A person can be great at their profession and a terrible person, or a fantastic person and terrible professionally. 

As far as Voynov is concerned, I wouldn't rule out the involvement of cocaine and steroids. Crazy things that stuff can do to a person. 

And on an entirely separate note, I read something earlier regarding Big Joe Thorton as an option at center for us. Like a short term filler until Kotkaneimi and Poehling are ready to take over. Any thoughts? Are his knees too blown out? I do love Big Joe. Wouldn't make us contenders, but it might at least give us something to watch. 

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3 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I don't understand not signing Carr or why he never got a chance

you can say that again. 

JDLR in 4 seasons = 19pts in 119 games = 0.16 ppg
MaC in 3 seasons = 8 pts in 69 games = 0.12 ppg
Carr in 3 seasons = 34 pts in 94 games = 0.36 ppg

Carr last season = 0.42 ppg

and yet, we let Carr walk and qualify Mac.


 

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2 hours ago, Regis22 said:

MB was disappointed in him being out late in a car involved in an accident

Yeah I'm aware of those incidents.  But none of those are on ice/in locker room incidents other than maybe Chucky and his dad.  So if that's the case then they definitely aren't on ice problems that Bergevin is concerned with.  All the more reason that if we're not hypocritical, don't touch Voynov.

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1. I'm disappointed Carr didn't get a QO. Supposedly, the Habs did offer him a contract, but at 700k, when his minimum QO was 760k. Carr has already received an offer from the KHL and believes he can get more on the open market. When he turned down the 700k, the Habs decided he wasn't worth 760k and cut him loose. It's sad. Carr made 725k the last couple of years, so the Habs effectively told him to take a paycut or take a hike. Conversely, the Canadiens gave Nic Deslauriers a 2-year contract for 950k. Deslauriers played reasonably well down the stretch for the Habs, but IMO Carr is the superior player. He's been a better producer per ice time, and Deslauriers' stats were inflated by an abnormally high shooting percentage despite bad possession numbers. There's no doubt to me that Carr would be a superior asset going forward. Both guys play hard every night, but Carr brings better skill and does more with what he's given.

2. Other teams submitted their QO's today, and the two guys who jump out at me who didn't get one are Anthony Duclair and Derrick Pouliot. The former is only 22 but has been cut by 3 teams. Nevertheless, he's young, had one good season in the NHL, and really hasn't been any worse than Domi in terms of goal production. The latter is 24 but he's a left-handed defenceman with some offensive ability, who has had limited success in the NHL but has played well in the AHL and would be a definite upgrade over Alzner, Benn, Schlemko, and possibly Reilly too. These ae both low-risk players who could fit into a youth movement. You give them 1-2 year deals. If they work out, you build them into your plan and if they don't, you cut them free at minimum expense and you move on. We're not likely to be competitive for a Cup this year, so it's a perfect opportunity to give guys a chance they might not get elsewhere.

3. As for the other RFA's here, good to see Logan Shaw and Fucale were allowed to move on. They don't add much, and hopefully we don't try to negotiate new contracts with them. I think it was smart to offer Danault and DLR and Rychel QO's and see what they can do, although I don't think the last two are going to be big players here. As for McCarron, we needed to offer him the QO, but not sure how many lives he has left. At this point, he should be a winger and he should be played in the top 9 in pre-season to see what he can do. If he can't perform there, you trade him for whatever you can get.

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