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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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Go for it MB , Habs need more underachieving wingers

 

Together Again?

With the Chicago Blackhawks opting against giving Anthony Duclair a qualifying offer on Monday, Pat Hickey of The Montreal Gazette wonders if a reunion could be in order between two former Arizona Coyotes in Montreal.

Hickey points out that Duclair has a had a friendship with newly acquired Canadiens winger Max Domi dating back to the 2015 World Juniors, where they won gold with Canada. The duo then played together the following fall with the Coyotes, with the Domi leading the Coyotes in scoring and Duclair not far behind in their rookie seasons.

Duclair's game has dropped off since his 20-goal campaign in 2015-16 as he's managed just 16 goals in the two seasons since. He scored nine goals and posted 15 assists in 33 games with the Coyotes this past season and reportedly requested a trade from the team. He was moved to the Chicago Blackhawks in January, posting two goals and eight points in 23 games.

Hickey notes that Duclair also played midget hockey with Canadiens forward Jonathan Drouin and can play on either wing. He made $1.2 million last season and is free to sign anywhere on July

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5 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Go for it MB , Habs need more underachieving wingers

 

Together Again?

With the Chicago Blackhawks opting against giving Anthony Duclair a qualifying offer on Monday, Pat Hickey of The Montreal Gazette wonders if a reunion could be in order between two former Arizona Coyotes in Montreal.

Hickey points out that Duclair has a had a friendship with newly acquired Canadiens winger Max Domi dating back to the 2015 World Juniors, where they won gold with Canada. The duo then played together the following fall with the Coyotes, with the Domi leading the Coyotes in scoring and Duclair not far behind in their rookie seasons.

Duclair's game has dropped off since his 20-goal campaign in 2015-16 as he's managed just 16 goals in the two seasons since. He scored nine goals and posted 15 assists in 33 games with the Coyotes this past season and reportedly requested a trade from the team. He was moved to the Chicago Blackhawks in January, posting two goals and eight points in 23 games.

Hickey notes that Duclair also played midget hockey with Canadiens forward Jonathan Drouin and can play on either wing. He made $1.2 million last season and is free to sign anywhere on July

Lets face it, this team hasnt been the same since DD left.    Now we can have DDD!

Domi - Drouin - Duclair

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15 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

https://news.hockeyfeed.com/nhl-news/breaking-blockbuster-trade-between-the-kings-and-canadiens-has-fallen-apart?ref=jo

how about this!

patch and weber for doughty.....man if they would do something like that it would heal so much of the pain ive been in for the last 2 years

See and this is exactly what the Subban deal should have been.   Doughty = Subban, pretty close anyway.

Patches + Weber for Doughty = fair.  

Weber for Doughty = not fair, and pretty much the same as Weber for PK at this stage in their careers.   I think the story is fabricated because i think MB will take Weber till the end with him.

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I think the guys we have the highest odds of signing are Plekanec, Stastny, or Bozak. I think MB will target a center and he'll be willing to overpay and give too much term simply because he got caught out with no centers and too much cap space this year. It would be classic Bergevin to over-correct for a mistake by doing something equally bad the other way.

TBH, if the Habs can't trade for a center, they may as well play someone like Hudon, McCarron, or DLR as their 2nd line center for the entire year. Worst case scenario is that they suck and you do poorly in the standings and you get a shot at Jack Hughes or another top-tier draft pick. Best case scenario is they prove themselves and either give you another top 6 option as a surprise or they increase their trade value and you get something in exchange that you can use (e.g. McCarron plays with Pacioretty and Gallagher and puts up 50-55 points... you keep him there or you trade him for a top 4 D man as you transition to using JK and RP as your centers in 1-2 years. To me, it makes no sense to stopgap with Plekanec or Bozak and end up sucking and not developing anyone, and potentially eating a contract that hurts you for a couple of years too a la Alzner.

I do think he'll have interest in Johnson and De Haan as well, but it sounds like Johnson might be more interested in going to Pittsburgh, which is fine with me, and De Haan has a dozen teams calling, so it's unlikely he comes here. Pouliot re-signed with the Canucks after all. So Duclair is really one of the few guys whom I'd be interested in who might actually come here. I do think there are also trade opportunities with teams like WInnipeg and Minnesota and Tampa, who are going to be tight against the cap and who will need to give up assets to move out cap space. As long as it's a short-term hit on the salary dump, it's a good move for us.

 

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i would take a shot at Duclair he is young and may turn it around. i am pretty much done with signing old has beens with term i can see a one year deal to fill a hole if we really have no kids to try out but other than that it is a waste of time at this point. no more Hemsky's please! i do see where one good center for up to three years might be a good bridge to get to the kids we drafted now as we do still have to play these seasons out.

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2 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

i would take a shot at Duclair he is young and may turn it around. i am pretty much done with signing old has beens with term i can see a one year deal to fill a hole if we really have no kids to try out but other than that it is a waste of time at this point. no more Hemsky's please! i do see where one good center for up to three years might be a good bridge to get to the kids we drafted now as we do still have to play these seasons out.

I would sign Stastny for 2 years. Maybe 3 max but I'm not even sure I'd go there. 5 million-ish. But anything longer doesn't make sense. And I doubt he'd be on board with that term/salary when someone will probably give him 4 years at 6M.

When you look at UFA signings (of guys changing teams), the large majority of longer-term (3 yr plus) deals just end up being bad. Alzner. Lucic. Backes. Okposo. Eriksson. Dale Weise. Ladd. Hanzal. Bonino. Dadonov. Some are outright disasters. Some are tolerable but where the team making the signing is still trying to trade away the player to save cap space going forward. Rare are the cases where the player has actually benefited the team significantly. Yes, a Tavares will do that. A John Carlson would have done that if he had hit market. Ditto Stamkos. But the large majority of good players get locked up by their own teams or traded if it looks like they're going to lose them. So the guys hitting market now tend to be overrated or past prime. You're signing 30 year olds based on what they've done in the past 5 years, not what one expects them to do in the next 5. And with competition, you tend to overpay.

So sure, if you can get Stastny for two years, do it. If you can get de Haan for 3-4 years at 3.5-4M, fine. But there's not much point in overpaying. We're better off developing our own draft picks. We're better off taking on some other team's short-term cap problem to acquire a younger asset or pick. We're better off making a hockey trade. But the free agency market is usually resultant in disaster. Unless you're really close to a Cup and need something to put you over the top, it's generally a bad idea to give out term in free agency.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I would sign Stastny for 2 years. Maybe 3 max but I'm not even sure I'd go there. 5 million-ish. But anything longer doesn't make sense. And I doubt he'd be on board with that term/salary when someone will probably give him 4 years at 6M.

When you look at UFA signings (of guys changing teams), the large majority of longer-term (3 yr plus) deals just end up being bad. Alzner. Lucic. Backes. Okposo. Eriksson. Dale Weise. Ladd. Hanzal. Bonino. Dadonov. Some are outright disasters. Some are tolerable but where the team making the signing is still trying to trade away the player to save cap space going forward. Rare are the cases where the player has actually benefited the team significantly. Yes, a Tavares will do that. A John Carlson would have done that if he had hit market. Ditto Stamkos. But the large majority of good players get locked up by their own teams or traded if it looks like they're going to lose them. So the guys hitting market now tend to be overrated or past prime. You're signing 30 year olds based on what they've done in the past 5 years, not what one expects them to do in the next 5. And with competition, you tend to overpay.

So sure, if you can get Stastny for two years, do it. If you can get de Haan for 3-4 years at 3.5-4M, fine. But there's not much point in overpaying. We're better off developing our own draft picks. We're better off taking on some other team's short-term cap problem to acquire a younger asset or pick. We're better off making a hockey trade. But the free agency market is usually resultant in disaster. Unless you're really close to a Cup and need something to put you over the top, it's generally a bad idea to give out term in free agency.

Which is probably just what MB is gonna do with Patches.

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Not sure if this will have legs or not, but:

"Engels reports in his lastest article that Bergevin was minutes away from landing Buffalo Sabres center Ryan O'Reilly. 

According to Engels, the Canadiens had a deal in place to send Max Pacioretty to the Islanders in return for various assets that would have included one of their first round picks #11 or #12. 

Bergevin then had a deal in place to send one of those first round picks to the Buffalo Sabres along with some seconds for O'Reilly. 

However, after the Canadiens took Jesperi Kotkaniemi, the draft took a weird turn with teams reaching for plenty of players, and when Islanders general manager Lou Lamoriello realized he could land Oliver Wahlstrom and Noah Dobson, Lamoriello pulled the deal off the table."

 

Makes me wonder if MB will try something different in order to get ROR.

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10 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Not sure if this will have legs or not, but:

"Engels reports in his lastest article that Bergevin was minutes away from landing Buffalo Sabres center Ryan O'Reilly. 

According to Engels, the Canadiens had a deal in place to send Max Pacioretty to the Islanders in return for various assets that would have included one of their first round picks #11 or #12. 

Bergevin then had a deal in place to send one of those first round picks to the Buffalo Sabres along with some seconds for O'Reilly. 

However, after the Canadiens took Jesperi Kotkaniemi, the draft took a weird turn with teams reaching for plenty of players, and when Islanders general manager Lou Lamoriello realized he could land Oliver Wahlstrom and Noah Dobson, Lamoriello pulled the deal off the table."

 

Makes me wonder if MB will try something different in order to get ROR.

I would love ROR! I know he;s not elite but he'd be the best C we've had in a while

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16 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Makes me wonder if MB will try something different in order to get ROR.

He'll need a 3rd team because (as Ive been thinking for a while) Buffalo probably has no interest in Pacioretty; they are trying to build a young team - but maybe NYI still is in the mix.   Patches to NYI - NYI with a couple of prospects which we turn around & trade (maybe with a prospect of our own) for ROR.

Sounds like Buffalo really want to move ROR before July 1 (Signing bonus) and NYI, if they are interested in acquiring Pacioretty, may well want to do that before JT has made his final decision.  

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3 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I would love ROR! I know he;s not elite but he'd be the best C we've had in a while

Absolutely.  He's not a true #1 but already would be our best by a country mile.   He's young enough that when Kotkaniemi is ready to take over he can slide down the lineup, too.  Id definitely have interest in him. Much more than Stastny or Bozak. 

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More food for thought.

"TSN's Bob McKenzie reports it's believed the Canadiens nearly had a deal in place to ship their captain to the Los Angeles Kings, but it fell through because a contract extension could be worked out. The 29-year-old left wing is eligible to become an unrestricted free agent July 2019.

The Kings instead signed free-agent winger Ilya Kovalchuk to a three-year deal. Despite this move, McKenzie still feels they could revisit their interest in the Canadiens' captain."

Bold is mine.

 

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8 hours ago, maas_art said:

He'll need a 3rd team because (as Ive been thinking for a while) Buffalo probably has no interest in Pacioretty; they are trying to build a young team - but maybe NYI still is in the mix.   Patches to NYI - NYI with a couple of prospects which we turn around & trade (maybe with a prospect of our own) for ROR.

Sounds like Buffalo really want to move ROR before July 1 (Signing bonus) and NYI, if they are interested in acquiring Pacioretty, may well want to do that before JT has made his final decision.  

To play Devil's advocate though, if a team is willing to give us a good prospect or several good prospects for Pacioretty, why bother flipping them to Buffalo? I'd rather keep the young guys and rebuild than acquire a 27 year-old #2 center.

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2 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

To play Devil's advocate though, if a team is willing to give us a good prospect or several good prospects for Pacioretty, why bother flipping them to Buffalo? I'd rather keep the young guys and rebuild than acquire a 27 year-old #2 center.

Agreed again! And Riley Nash could be a more affordable option (as a RFA/UFA?) in any case.

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I would like us to just bite the bullet don't sign any big names and promote or sign some young players to see what they have, an honest to goodness chance.  Finish bottom 3 and get a top pick once again and let the new GM rebuild this team the right way!

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

To play Devil's advocate though, if a team is willing to give us a good prospect or several good prospects for Pacioretty, why bother flipping them to Buffalo? I'd rather keep the young guys and rebuild than acquire a 27 year-old #2 center.

Absolutely, assuming we're actually committed to a full rebuild. I still don't think that MB is actually contemplating the idea though.

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38 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

Absolutely, assuming we're actually committed to a full rebuild. I still don't think that MB is actually contemplating the idea though.

I feel more that he is not willing to admit to the fact of a full rebuild, perhaps because of the signings Weber / Price, .. which would sound near senseless in a full rebuild.

and maybe he promised Carey a Cup in Montreal, or at least for him to be part of it .. admitting then to a full rebuild may get Price`s moral down to the same level as Patches was after finally finding a match in Radulov and losing him just when they thought they had something going.

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

To play Devil's advocate though, if a team is willing to give us a good prospect or several good prospects for Pacioretty, why bother flipping them to Buffalo? I'd rather keep the young guys and rebuild than acquire a 27 year-old #2 center.

 

4 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Absolutely, assuming we're actually committed to a full rebuild. I still don't think that MB is actually contemplating the idea though.

Yeah, my thinking exactly.  Theoretically we should be after the same things as Buffalo, but with MB running things, i think the best we can hope for is to get younger/fill roster holes.  Pacioretty for ROR accomplishes that - and although Pacioretty for picks and prospects would be even better -  I just cant see him doing a full rebuild.

 

3 hours ago, RuudNuij said:

I feel more that he is not willing to admit to the fact of a full rebuild, perhaps because of the signings Weber / Price, .. which would sound near senseless in a full rebuild.

and maybe he promised Carey a Cup in Montreal, or at least for him to be part of it .. admitting then to a full rebuild may get Price`s moral down to the same level as Patches was after finally finding a match in Radulov and losing him just when they thought they had something going.

Totally agree. Its ridiculous because he's only making his own job harder.  Keeping guys like Weber, Price, Petry, Byron etc is bad asset management. They all have value now and will have less value once our young players like Kotkaniemi, Poeling and others are ready to fill out our roster.   Guys like Drouin, Domi, Mete etc will still be young enough but anyone over 28/29 should be moved for more young assets. 

He has to see this. 

Once again stubbornness and misguided pride are killing this team. 

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5 hours ago, RuudNuij said:

I feel more that he is not willing to admit to the fact of a full rebuild, perhaps because of the signings Weber / Price, .. which would sound near senseless in a full rebuild.

and maybe he promised Carey a Cup in Montreal, or at least for him to be part of it .. admitting then to a full rebuild may get Price`s moral down to the same level as Patches was after finally finding a match in Radulov and losing him just when they thought they had something going.

I'd be willing to bet Carey Price is regretting signing his new contract with the Habs.

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6 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I don't know... I'm sure he dislikes where the team is headed (who wouldn't?), but I'm sure he's happy to get a lot of money and have stability for his family.

But you need to remember, according to a lot of people he'll never be considered a great player if he never wins a cup.

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