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2017-18 The Rumors Thread


BigTed3
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32 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Whatever value Patches might have had just plummeted. Teams may trade for him if they think they'll have a better shot at the cup but they won't give up a hell of a lot for a player they may have for only one year.

The reason for Paccioretty's plummeting devaluation is thanks to our illustrious GM. He continues to publicly degrade our skilled players and gets them traded for his 'so called' attitude players, which is apparently now part of his new playbook this year.

Trades are very hard when you're an incompetent GM because no one wants to be part of your dysfunctional way of managing a team.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

So tack on Pacioretty to the list of Subban, Eller, Galchenyuk, Markov, Radulov, Semin, Diaz, Briere, PAP, Thomas, Carr, Kristo, Beaulieu, Pateryn, DSP, Sekac, etc. that Bergevin didn't think had the right attitude/character to play here or weren't worth paying, even though he freely dished out money to 4th liners and scrubs. Good judge of talent that Marc Bergevin.

Subban, Eller, Markov, Radulov those were guys that we needed to retain

Semin - 1 goal in 15 games, 3 assists and looked disinterested.  Bolted for KHL when nobody else was silly enough to give him a contract in the NHL.

Diaz -  Played 6 games for Nucks, then 11 for NY Rangers. 2014/15 played 56g and then after that was out of NHL.  No loss.

Briere -  Played one last season after MTL where he was even worse, then retired.

PAP-  Had a couple decent seasons after Habs, and now not in the NHL.    Minor loss at best

C Thomas ... 27 career NHL games, 1g ... now a career AHLer.   No loss.

Kristo - Career AHLer and now over seas.   No loss.

Beaulieau - Showed promise, struggled with Sabres.  Time will tell.

Pateryn - Decent season with Stars.    But he's a career bottom pairing D and not a massive loss.

Sekac -  After we traded him, he played another 58 games in the NHL with 3 teams scoring 3g 10a ... now in KHL.  No loss.

DSP -  4th line grinder at best.   And considering it was Sekac (who was undrafted) for DSP ... we really gained nothing nor lost anything.  Unless somehow you think Stefan Matteau (who we got for DSP and lost in the Exp Draft) is some sort of Elite player just waiting to break out after 6 years and 6 call ups to the NHL with 3 different teams).

And yes, MB sucks .. but lets not delude ourselves either that any of those players above with the exception of Subban, Eller, Markov and Radulov would have made us any better than we are.

I remember everyone harping about Sekac and how foolish we were to trade him ... I wasn't sold on him, neither was Chicago, Anaheim or Arizona.  And if you can't keep a spot in the Yotes lineup then you truly don't belong in the NHL.

I don't think MB is a bad judge of talent considering everyone of the guys above except the 4 I singled out are not NHL calibre.    Rather he's a poor negotiator in trades and tends to be looking to make a deal from a position of panic and weakness rather than being able to dictate the terms,    Subban for Webber is a perfect example.   While I wouldn't have personally traded PK, MB wanted to.    The problem is the rest of the GM's all knew he wanted to as well, and the best he could muster was a straight up PK for Webber.   And instead of just biting the bullet and keeping PK he pulled the trigger anyways.

He also has a fundamental problem in identifying what pieces he needs for a successful team in the modern NHL.    The roster he's assembled has no synergy and is a mish mash of ill fitting pieces.    It's like he was trying to make spaghetti and just grabbed random spices that on their own are good but definitely don't harmonize into a good pasta sauce.   

 

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Rumor is he won't renegotiate a new contract for Pacs will trade him!  Just my thought but a player is worth substantially more when they are under contract for a few years, obviously MB has never heard of a sign and trade.  My god someone please get this idiot out of our front office!!

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8 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Subban, Eller, Markov, Radulov those were guys that we needed to retain

Semin - 1 goal in 15 games, 3 assists and looked disinterested.  Bolted for KHL when nobody else was silly enough to give him a contract in the NHL.

Diaz -  Played 6 games for Nucks, then 11 for NY Rangers. 2014/15 played 56g and then after that was out of NHL.  No loss.

Briere -  Played one last season after MTL where he was even worse, then retired.

PAP-  Had a couple decent seasons after Habs, and now not in the NHL.    Minor loss at best

C Thomas ... 27 career NHL games, 1g ... now a career AHLer.   No loss.

Kristo - Career AHLer and now over seas.   No loss.

Beaulieau - Showed promise, struggled with Sabres.  Time will tell.

Pateryn - Decent season with Stars.    But he's a career bottom pairing D and not a massive loss.

Sekac -  After we traded him, he played another 58 games in the NHL with 3 teams scoring 3g 10a ... now in KHL.  No loss.

DSP -  4th line grinder at best.   And considering it was Sekac (who was undrafted) for DSP ... we really gained nothing nor lost anything.  Unless somehow you think Stefan Matteau (who we got for DSP and lost in the Exp Draft) is some sort of Elite player just waiting to break out after 6 years and 6 call ups to the NHL with 3 different teams).

And yes, MB sucks .. but lets not delude ourselves either that any of those players above with the exception of Subban, Eller, Markov and Radulov would have made us any better than we are.

I remember everyone harping about Sekac and how foolish we were to trade him ... I wasn't sold on him, neither was Chicago, Anaheim or Arizona.  And if you can't keep a spot in the Yotes lineup then you truly don't belong in the NHL.

I don't think MB is a bad judge of talent considering everyone of the guys above except the 4 I singled out are not NHL calibre.    Rather he's a poor negotiator in trades and tends to be looking to make a deal from a position of panic and weakness rather than being able to dictate the terms,    Subban for Webber is a perfect example.   While I wouldn't have personally traded PK, MB wanted to.    The problem is the rest of the GM's all knew he wanted to as well, and the best he could muster was a straight up PK for Webber.   And instead of just biting the bullet and keeping PK he pulled the trigger anyways.

He also has a fundamental problem in identifying what pieces he needs for a successful team in the modern NHL.    The roster he's assembled has no synergy and is a mish mash of ill fitting pieces.    It's like he was trying to make spaghetti and just grabbed random spices that on their own are good but definitely don't harmonize into a good pasta sauce.   

 

Agreed that some of those players ended up being no big deal. However, hard to say if they would have been better if our development and deployment hadn't been awful. Regardless, the point remains that most of these guys were dealt at least in part because MB didn't like their character, yet he was okay with bringing in other players with obvious character flaws. So even if I could justify a trade for another reason, that wasn't the reason MB made it; he was making deals for all the wrong reasons, and that's why we saw a good number of his decisions being way off base.

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Not surprisingly, lots of rumors about Pacioretty today.

First off though, per Jack Todd:
“I would take any reports that the Habs won’t sign Pacioretty with a grain of salt. Leaking the news could be an agent’s tactic, or it could be someone claiming to be in the loop who isn’t. In other words – unless you heard it from the late great Red Fisher…”

 

So far Ive heard that:
- The two Florida teams still have interest & Max would sign an extension with either.  No idea about players coming back.

- Las Vegas has big interest. Not sure if they would trade for him if he wont extend there & no idea if he would.  Return would be a package of prospects & young players

- Pittsburgh may not be out of the running yet but would need to either trade Kessel to us (no thanks) or move him elsewhere. Doesnt seem like a good fit.

- The NYI are still on Tavares Damage control & may want to acquire a 'hometown boy' (from an hour away) and high profile player like Patches.  

- Edmonton has a need for him, but are unlikely to be able to extend him so, probably no deal.

 

I get the sense there is still quite a bit of interest in Pacioretty despite MB's best efforts to lower his value.   The question seems to be whether he would extend with a particular team and what he's looking for there. I think at minimum he wants a 6 year deal and some teams may balk at that, even if given the opportunity.

Should be an interesting story to watch. 

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53 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Not surprisingly, lots of rumors about Pacioretty today.

First off though, per Jack Todd:
“I would take any reports that the Habs won’t sign Pacioretty with a grain of salt. Leaking the news could be an agent’s tactic, or it could be someone claiming to be in the loop who isn’t. In other words – unless you heard it from the late great Red Fisher…”

 

So far Ive heard that:
- The two Florida teams still have interest & Max would sign an extension with either.  No idea about players coming back.

- Las Vegas has big interest. Not sure if they would trade for him if he wont extend there & no idea if he would.  Return would be a package of prospects & young players

- Pittsburgh may not be out of the running yet but would need to either trade Kessel to us (no thanks) or move him elsewhere. Doesnt seem like a good fit.

- The NYI are still on Tavares Damage control & may want to acquire a 'hometown boy' (from an hour away) and high profile player like Patches.  

- Edmonton has a need for him, but are unlikely to be able to extend him so, probably no deal.

 

I get the sense there is still quite a bit of interest in Pacioretty despite MB's best efforts to lower his value.   The question seems to be whether he would extend with a particular team and what he's looking for there. I think at minimum he wants a 6 year deal and some teams may balk at that, even if given the opportunity.

Should be an interesting story to watch. 

2 years ago I said hes gonna want 8 mill a year and the time to trade him is now when hes been productive and has term on an amazing deal..... Im all over the map on my predictions with this team but man was I right about this one. Its kind of fun to call it and it comes true but really its just extremely frustrating because we just sat there like goons and let the clock run out.

Like OBVIOUSLY the value is just going to keep decreasing.  I said it at the deadline, MB should have just taken the best deal offered then and be done with it. I can almost guarantee we had multiple offers that we would all have been very happy with. Forget trying to do it at the draft, look what happened. Something goes wrong and now we are gonna take another L on a trade.

Anyway Florida seems to be the place that wants Max and the one he will willingly extend with. What do you guys realistically think might come back?

 

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7 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

2 years ago I said hes gonna want 8 mill a year and the time to trade him is now when hes been productive and has term on an amazing deal..... Im all over the map on my predictions with this team but man was I right about this one. Its kind of fun to call it and it comes true but really its just extremely frustrating because we just sat there like goons and let the clock run out.

Like OBVIOUSLY the value is just going to keep decreasing.  I said it at the deadline, MB should have just taken the best deal offered then and be done with it. I can almost guarantee we had multiple offers that we would all have been very happy with. Forget trying to do it at the draft, look what happened. Something goes wrong and now we are gonna take another L on a trade.

Anyway Florida seems to be the place that wants Max and the one he will willingly extend with. What do you guys realistically think might come back?

 

Totally agree with issues about value. Max is in a position to make life miserable for the Habs. If he asks too much he can prevent a deal  and we lose him for nothing or the return will drop. Bergevin needs to have a deadline for a contract and a trade. Waiting until the trade deadline may be tricky if the teams that are interested now are no longer in the running we risk seeing a Tavares situation. We may not get true value if we  wait much longer and need to appreciate that we had him at below value for a few years already. I would suggest something is better than nothing but if Patches wants to be a UFA that will not help our cause.

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

2 years ago I said hes gonna want 8 mill a year and the time to trade him is now when hes been productive and has term on an amazing deal..... Im all over the map on my predictions with this team but man was I right about this one. Its kind of fun to call it and it comes true but really its just extremely frustrating because we just sat there like goons and let the clock run out.

Like OBVIOUSLY the value is just going to keep decreasing.  I said it at the deadline, MB should have just taken the best deal offered then and be done with it. I can almost guarantee we had multiple offers that we would all have been very happy with. Forget trying to do it at the draft, look what happened. Something goes wrong and now we are gonna take another L on a trade.

I didnt think we should trade him 2 years ago but I also didnt believe MB could mess up this roster this badly.  Like you though, i felt like last year's trade deadline was the time to move him.  A team had him for a playoff run, and, would have nearly 1/2 a year to negotiate with him before he even hits the last year of his deal.   You have to believe some team out there would have made the move.  St Louis apparently might not have traded Statsny if they could have landed Pacioretty but since they couldnt, they felt like their chances were lessened so they became sellers instead of buyers.

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

Anyway Florida seems to be the place that wants Max and the one he will willingly extend with. What do you guys realistically think might come back?

Well thats a tough one.  The rumors are that we were pushing hard for Henrik Borgstrom and florida said no way.  On the one hand I dont blame them - he looks like he's going to be a beast, but on the other, they have Barkov and Trochek who are both young top 6 centres.   Frankly, id be happy with any of those 3 but not sure they will let any go.  Maybe if we add in another player from our end & make it a multi player swap.    Pacioretty + Byron  (or shaw)  for  Trochek +  Bystrom or Schemitsch etc.   The one nice fit is that Florida does have a ton of centre depth but lack high end wingers. We have no depth down the middle but about a zillion wingers.  Unfortunately, arguably their 2 best wingers are both LW. Pacioretty would easily still be in their top 2 but its not like they are desperate. 


I think, however, if we end up dealing with Florida, you're going to see someone like Jared McCann + Prospects  coming back.   McCann would probably do well under Julien but really just gives us another Danault/Lars Eller type and Im not sure thats what we need to get back in a Max Pacioretty trade.  Maybe we could get McCann + Ang (who does have top 6 centre potential) + pick but im not hopeful of Bergevin's negotiating skills. 

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I didnt think we should trade him 2 years ago but I also didnt believe MB could mess up this roster this badly.  Like you though, i felt like last year's trade deadline was the time to move him.  A team had him for a playoff run, and, would have nearly 1/2 a year to negotiate with him before he even hits the last year of his deal.   You have to believe some team out there would have made the move.  St Louis apparently might not have traded Statsny if they could have landed Pacioretty but since they couldnt, they felt like their chances were lessened so they became sellers instead of buyers.

Well thats a tough one.  The rumors are that we were pushing hard for Henrik Borgstrom and florida said no way.  On the one hand I dont blame them - he looks like he's going to be a beast, but on the other, they have Barkov and Trochek who are both young top 6 centres.   Frankly, id be happy with any of those 3 but not sure they will let any go.  Maybe if we add in another player from our end & make it a multi player swap.    Pacioretty + Byron  (or shaw)  for  Trochek +  Bystrom or Schemitsch etc.   The one nice fit is that Florida does have a ton of centre depth but lack high end wingers. We have no depth down the middle but about a zillion wingers. 


I think, however, if we end up dealing with Florida, you're going to see someone like Jared McCann + Prospects  coming back.   McCann would probably do well under Julien but really just gives us another Danault/Lars Eller type and Im not sure thats what we need to get back in a Max Pacioretty trade.  Maybe we could get McCann + Ang + pick but im not hopeful of Bergevin's negotiating skills. 

 

 

 

I like where your head is at. Id happily add to patch to get a legit C. 

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imo, no chance we get Trochek. Best we could hope for is Borgstrom but even that is doubtful unless we add and we don't have much to add except for picks.

I'd look for a Dman for the future, we really need to be looking multiple years ahead to fix this mess. By that time we'll have Poehling and JK down the middle, solid wingers with Domi, Drouin and we'll need more D to be maturing at the right time. CP will hopefully be rejuvenated by this time.

I'm more worried MB will try so hard to fill the hole at C that he'll forget about the D. And the new GM will be stuck with no D, not that we have much now.

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58 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

imo, no chance we get Trochek. Best we could hope for is Borgstrom but even that is doubtful unless we add and we don't have much to add except for picks.

Probably not but you have to swing for the fences.   Somewhere out there there's a deal to be had for one of the top 7 goal scorers in the league over the past 6 years.

59 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

I'd look for a Dman for the future, we really need to be looking multiple years ahead to fix this mess. By that time we'll have Poehling and JK down the middle, solid wingers with Domi, Drouin and we'll need more D to be maturing at the right time. CP will hopefully be rejuvenated by this time.

I'm more worried MB will try so hard to fill the hole at C that he'll forget about the D. And the new GM will be stuck with no D, not that we have much now.

Imho our defensive prospects are better than one might think.   Mete and Juulsen are both well on their way and guys like Fleury, Walford and Lernout are still projecting as NHL players and guys like Romanov, Sklenicka and Moravcik  are somewhat dark horses.


All in all I think we are well stocked for positions 3-6    The question is our top pair.  I dont have a hard time envisioning Mete there. Maybe Juulsen too but its tough to say.  Id feel a heck of a lot better with Sergachev in the pipe.  

 

My hope is that as this team is dismantled, which it surely will,  Weber and Petry are traded to a 'win now' team for top D prospects. But its MB so... 

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8 minutes ago, Habberwacky said:

I think it was Dan Robertson interviewed on radio today saying he hears it is Patches to San Jose for Timo Meier and draft picks.although with Kane staying in San Jose that may be different.

sounds about right.  Trade our two best assets for left wingers.      At what point does MB admit he has a LW addiction? 

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The key to trading Pacioretty is fit. Unless Max is signing an extension as part of the trade (and we know he was rumored to have not wanted to sign with Buffalo and rumored to have disliked the extension offered by LA), the team that takes him would need immediate help at left wing AND be willing to part with picks, prospects, or younger players AND have the cap space AND be able to compete for a Cup this year. So that's a lot of factors adding up.

I still see Edmonton as being a good fit. I still see Calgary as being a potential fit. Nashville maybe. Florida should still be a contender. Pittsburgh if they can make moves to accommodate him. You take a risk by holding on to Max that he gets hurt or has another bad year, but if I'm MB I really wonder about just starting the season with Pacman if you can't find the right deal now. Teams that know they're in the running by February or March might be more willing to give up a 1st and a good prospect for a Cup run. Right now, the thought of a Cup might be too hypothetical for some of those clubs, and the ones that want him for more than this year just don't seem to be able to make a trade and get him signed right now. So if you're pitching to teams that want him for one and then re-assess whether to keep him, maybe the trade deadline is a better time. Personally, I think the odds he rebounds and increases his value are pretty good, so I'd maybe hold onto him and play him with as good linemates as we can find and try to boost his value. And if he really really stinks, maybe then you have negotiating power to sign him to an extension for less than you would have had to (i.e. maybe he takes 5 years at 7M instead of asking for 8 x 8M). FWIW, the people who use models to predict the contracts players should get think Pacioretty should/will end up with a deal in the range of 6 years and slightly under 7M...

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4 hours ago, booboo_mtl said:

imo, no chance we get Trochek. Best we could hope for is Borgstrom but even that is doubtful unless we add and we don't have much to add except for picks.

I'd look for a Dman for the future, we really need to be looking multiple years ahead to fix this mess. By that time we'll have Poehling and JK down the middle, solid wingers with Domi, Drouin and we'll need more D to be maturing at the right time. CP will hopefully be rejuvenated by this time.

I'm more worried MB will try so hard to fill the hole at C that he'll forget about the D. And the new GM will be stuck with no D, not that we have much now.

By the time things fall into place Price will be playing goal with a stick in one hand and a cane in the other.

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The Montreal Canadiens announced on Thursday that they have invited defenceman Simon Despres to training camp. The 26-year-old Laval native spent the 2017-18 season with the KHL's Bratislava Slovan.

Despres scored four goals and added seven assists in 44 games with Slovan.

In 193 career NHL games with the Pittsburgh Penguins and Anaheim Ducks, the 6-foot-4, 218-pounder has registered six goals and 43 points, along with 150 penalty minutes and a plus-31 rating.

He dressed in just one game for the Ducks during the 2016-17, and appeared in a total of just 49 games from 2014-2017 due to concussions. He was bought out by the Ducks last summer.

A native of Laval, Després was the Penguins' first-round pick (30th overall) in the 2009 NHL Draft.

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

The Montreal Canadiens announced on Thursday that they have invited defenceman Simon Despres to training camp. The 26-year-old Laval native spent the 2017-18 season with the KHL's Bratislava Slovan.

Despres scored four goals and added seven assists in 44 games with Slovan.

In 193 career NHL games with the Pittsburgh Penguins and Anaheim Ducks, the 6-foot-4, 218-pounder has registered six goals and 43 points, along with 150 penalty minutes and a plus-31 rating.

He dressed in just one game for the Ducks during the 2016-17, and appeared in a total of just 49 games from 2014-2017 due to concussions. He was bought out by the Ducks last summer.

A native of Laval, Després was the Penguins' first-round pick (30th overall) in the 2009 NHL Draft.

is he any good, has anyone seen him play, MB loves those 1st overall picks, besides he cost us nothing, hope he makes the team

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5 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

https://www.tsn.ca/talent/the-nhl-still-hasn-t-figured-out-how-to-pay-goaltenders-1.1137499

I thought this was interesting. Worth mentioning considering how much we pay Carey Price will heavily impact the state of our team moving forward.

How much we pay Carey is no big deal. We're gonna have extra cap space for years despite his 10 mil/yr salary.

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Its clear that the difference is that goaltending is inconsistent.... not that its hard to read or analyze. Good goalies can really suck sometimes and bad ones can surprise you for a little while... that's why you don't pay for them. But I can still tell you which goalies are good and bad. Price is the best one in the league but still undeserving of that king of contract

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59 minutes ago, jwlk said:

is he any good, has anyone seen him play, MB loves those 1st overall picks, besides he cost us nothing, hope he makes the team

He was a very intriguing prospect a few years ago but he's what, 26 now? I cant see him ever being more than a 3rd pairing guy at this stage but you never know.  

For a while he  projected as a a top 4 and was looking good on that path both in pittsburgh and anaheim but he has had multiple concussions now & Im not sure that he can ever be the player he looked to be when drafted.

Big guy, good skater... if he's healthy its possible he makes it onto our roster but it seems like a longshot.  

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