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State of the Habs


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20 hours ago, jwlk said:

how can an owner be so clueless, but it's his team

It really is amazing a GM can run the team into the ground this blatantly and be given another chance, although that's hardly a Montreal-only problem (and most of the Canadian teams have their own management issues - only Toronto and perhaps Winnipeg and maybe Calgary are really in a good spot, and Toronto was a basket case for years).

NHL career advice: if you want job security become a GM. If you want to get paid big bucks while unemployeed, become a coach.

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ManCity and (to a lesser extent) Liverpool are by far the most dominating offensive teams in the PL though. City has scored a total of 85 goals in 30 games this season, which is just massive for a football club. My math sucks but that amounts to what, around 198 goals in 70 games? That's better than ARI, BUF, MTL, DET, VAN, CAR and OTT even though football is traditionally rather low-scoring.

Don't get me wrong, the Habs are absolutely brutal and our number of shutouts is embarrassing, but it's hardly a fair comparison.

 

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14 hours ago, ChiLla said:

ManCity and (to a lesser extent) Liverpool are by far the most dominating offensive teams in the PL though. City has scored a total of 85 goals in 30 games this season, which is just massive for a football club. My math sucks but that amounts to what, around 198 goals in 70 games? That's better than ARI, BUF, MTL, DET, VAN, CAR and OTT even though football is traditionally rather low-scoring.

Don't get me wrong, the Habs are absolutely brutal and our number of shutouts is embarrassing, but it's hardly a fair comparison.

 

But it is a sensationalist one! And I, for one, am loving the sensationalism surrounding the Habs right now. It's all that keeps this jaded Canadiens fan going!

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

But it is a sensationalist one! And I, for one, am loving the sensationalism surrounding the Habs right now. It's all that keeps this jaded Canadiens fan going!

Fair enough ;) There's no point in discussing the real reasons for our downfall any further, we've probably heard it all by now.

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4 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Fair enough ;) There's no point in discussing the real reasons for our downfall any further, we've probably heard it all by now.

Very true. I think most of the people here have a pretty good understanding of the different reasons we've been bad this year. We've heaped a lot of the blame on MB (rightfully so). It's just funny to see that Liverpool and City have been outscoring us! Not the best comparison, but funny.

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Was anyone else a little bit peeved by Geoff Molson's recent interview? In it, he says that this season's performance cannot be blamed on Marc Bergevin. He says Bergevin is one of the best evaluators of talent in the NHL, he states that Bergevin built a winning team in Chicago, and he states that the bad season can be blamed on injuries, poor on-ice performance, poor player development, and not having enough players in the pipeline. Well, let's address those issues:

1. If Bergevin is a great evaluator of talent, then how did he end up acquiring the likes of King, Ott, Martinsen, Nesterov, Streit, Schlemko, Benn, Alzner, and so on? How did he deal Subban for Weber and Sergachev for Drouin? Why was he so insistent on drafting McCarron despite TT telling him to look at someone else? Not all of Bergevin's moves have been bad, but by and large, he's been one of the worst evaluators of talent in the league the past few years.

2. Bergevin was an assistant GM in Chicago, not the guy in charge, so how is it that he gets all of the credit for Chicago's success? Bergevin was assistant GM in Chicago from July 2009 until 2012, when he came here. He stepped into that role when the core of the team was already drafted... Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Bickell, Hjalmarsson, Bolland, Toews, and Kane were all drafted before that. And sure, MB was part of the Hawks organization before he became assistant GM, but he was one of many people and probably not the guy who chose to draft those players. Who were the 1st round choices when MB was aGM? Dylan Olsen. Kevin Hayes. Mark McNeill. No stars there. Not even very good NHLers. The 4 best players drafted in that time were probably Saad, Danault, Shaw, and Kruger. They also drafted Byron Froese. And MB has apparently spent most of his time trying to re-acquire those guys.

3. Can part of the Habs' season be blamed on injuries? Sure. But the truth is that the Habs were really bad even before the injury bug struck. And I've already detailed how other teams have dealt with injuries and had success, whereas every time the Habs under MB and MT have suffered key injuries, they've collapsed. Next.

4. Poor on-ice performance. Well that's performance by the players MB put together as coached by the 2nd coach that MB chose. MB claimed he improved the D. It's statistically the weakest one in the entire league, even when healthy. MB claimed he fixed the center problem with JD. He didn't. The roster is almost entirely players MB has drafted or traded for or signed now, and it's worse than when we had players he inherited. So the on-ice performance can be traced back to MB.

5. Poor player development and not having enough players in the pipeline? Again, that comes down to Bergevin's drafting and his failure to fire Lefebvre despite horrible horrible results and coaching decisions in the AHL for years. If GM's not putting that on Bergevin, then who is he putting it on?

Once again, we're being fed a giant pile of lies from Molson and the Habs. Does he think we're idiots? Does he think we don't recognize that Bergevin IS responsible for all the things he said were not MB's fault? The Habs have taken us for granted and pretend like we're dummies who don't understand the complexity of the game. I think we understand more than we're given credit for and certainly enough to know retaining Bergevin seems to be more about saving money than anything. There's no hockey-related reason to keep him.

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7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Once again, we're being fed a giant pile of lies from Molson and the Habs. Does he think we're idiots? Does he think we don't recognize that Bergevin IS responsible for all the things he said were not MB's fault? The Habs have taken us for granted and pretend like we're dummies who don't understand the complexity of the game. I think we understand more than we're given credit for and certainly enough to know retaining Bergevin seems to be more about saving money than anything. There's no hockey-related reason to keep him.

Well said BT, and a great overall assessment of the situation regarding Molson and our GM. I especially like your last paragraph.

Obviously it seems that our not so clueless Owner is showing the same contempt toward our fan-base as our GM is. No apologies to the fans, no admittance of any mistakes, and no commitment to win the Cup.

IMO the only thing that will persuade Molson to fire this incompetent GM is when or if he starts feeling the squeeze in his pocketbook due to the fans boycotting his products, loss of attendance and sales, and plunging TV viewership of the games.

 

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It's so incredibly frustrating because we all knew what to expect after losing both Markov and Radulov in the summer. I could live with losing Emelin and Beaulieu but they were still much better players than their replacements. Going back to that ridiculous interview at last year's golf tournament, Bergevin apparently thought he could fool everyone by claiming he had in fact improved his defence. Or maybe he truly thought he did, which is even more concerning. Either way, it was a disaster waiting to happen, and luckily it happened rather quickly. It's dumbfounding that he's now being patted on the back by ownership though, for basically dismantling the team and making it much worse in the process.

We haven't won a playoff series in three years. In year six of MB's tenure, we still don't have a No1 center. Several players we gave away are having career years elsewhere. We traded our one and only legit blue-chip prospect for a player who may or may not reach 40 points this season. There's no help left in Laval. And yet, Molson thinks Bergevin is 'one of the best evaluators of talent' out there? Give me a break.

 

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14 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Was anyone else a little bit peeved by Geoff Molson's recent interview? In it, he says that this season's performance cannot be blamed on Marc Bergevin. He says Bergevin is one of the best evaluators of talent in the NHL, he states that Bergevin built a winning team in Chicago, and he states that the bad season can be blamed on injuries, poor on-ice performance, poor player development, and not having enough players in the pipeline. Well, let's address those issues:

1. If Bergevin is a great evaluator of talent, then how did he end up acquiring the likes of King, Ott, Martinsen, Nesterov, Streit, Schlemko, Benn, Alzner, and so on? How did he deal Subban for Weber and Sergachev for Drouin? Why was he so insistent on drafting McCarron despite TT telling him to look at someone else? Not all of Bergevin's moves have been bad, but by and large, he's been one of the worst evaluators of talent in the league the past few years.

2. Bergevin was an assistant GM in Chicago, not the guy in charge, so how is it that he gets all of the credit for Chicago's success? Bergevin was assistant GM in Chicago from July 2009 until 2012, when he came here. He stepped into that role when the core of the team was already drafted... Keith, Seabrook, Crawford, Bickell, Hjalmarsson, Bolland, Toews, and Kane were all drafted before that. And sure, MB was part of the Hawks organization before he became assistant GM, but he was one of many people and probably not the guy who chose to draft those players. Who were the 1st round choices when MB was aGM? Dylan Olsen. Kevin Hayes. Mark McNeill. No stars there. Not even very good NHLers. The 4 best players drafted in that time were probably Saad, Danault, Shaw, and Kruger. They also drafted Byron Froese. And MB has apparently spent most of his time trying to re-acquire those guys.

3. Can part of the Habs' season be blamed on injuries? Sure. But the truth is that the Habs were really bad even before the injury bug struck. And I've already detailed how other teams have dealt with injuries and had success, whereas every time the Habs under MB and MT have suffered key injuries, they've collapsed. Next.

4. Poor on-ice performance. Well that's performance by the players MB put together as coached by the 2nd coach that MB chose. MB claimed he improved the D. It's statistically the weakest one in the entire league, even when healthy. MB claimed he fixed the center problem with JD. He didn't. The roster is almost entirely players MB has drafted or traded for or signed now, and it's worse than when we had players he inherited. So the on-ice performance can be traced back to MB.

5. Poor player development and not having enough players in the pipeline? Again, that comes down to Bergevin's drafting and his failure to fire Lefebvre despite horrible horrible results and coaching decisions in the AHL for years. If GM's not putting that on Bergevin, then who is he putting it on?

Once again, we're being fed a giant pile of lies from Molson and the Habs. Does he think we're idiots? Does he think we don't recognize that Bergevin IS responsible for all the things he said were not MB's fault? The Habs have taken us for granted and pretend like we're dummies who don't understand the complexity of the game. I think we understand more than we're given credit for and certainly enough to know retaining Bergevin seems to be more about saving money than anything. There's no hockey-related reason to keep him.

Yeah, its ludicrous.

Geoff Molson: ""He's somebody who really understands how to build a hockey team,"  only, he doesn't. 

The team that Bergevin inherited - the first years of his tenure as GM - we've won 17 playoff games and 3 rounds in the first 3 years
The team that Bergevin built (since the really major moves) we've won 2 playoff games and 0 rounds in the last 3 years.

I know Molson doesnt consider himself to have a "hockey mind" but simple mathmatics will tell you that the longer Bergevin has put his stamp on this team, the worse we do.

Id wish for the BOG to step in but our BOG is made up of:  
Geoff Molson (Governor)  
Kevin Gilmore (Canadiens COO),
Fred Steer (Canadiens CFO),
Michael Andlauer (Canadiens co-owner)
Andrew Molson (Molson Coors vice-chairman)
Marc Bergevin (Canadiens GM)

So unless Gilmore, Steer and Andlauer decide to veto Molson (who is the actual "governor" the rest are all alternate governors) then I think we're stuck with whatever Molson thinks is the right move... 

 

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35 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, its ludicrous.

Geoff Molson: ""He's somebody who really understands how to build a hockey team,"  only, he doesn't. 

The team that Bergevin inherited - the first years of his tenure as GM - we've won 17 playoff games and 3 rounds in the first 3 years
The team that Bergevin built (since the really major moves) we've won 2 playoff games and 0 rounds in the last 3 years.

I know Molson doesnt consider himself to have a "hockey mind" but simple mathmatics will tell you that the longer Bergevin has put his stamp on this team, the worse we do.

Id wish for the BOG to step in but our BOG is made up of:  
Geoff Molson (Governor)  
Kevin Gilmore (Canadiens COO),
Fred Steer (Canadiens CFO),
Michael Andlauer (Canadiens co-owner)
Andrew Molson (Molson Coors vice-chairman)
Marc Bergevin (Canadiens GM)

So unless Gilmore, Steer and Andlauer decide to veto Molson (who is the actual "governor" the rest are all alternate governors) then I think we're stuck with whatever Molson thinks is the right move... 

 

Foxhole guarding the hen house. :6351:

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Yeah, its ludicrous.

Geoff Molson: ""He's somebody who really understands how to build a hockey team,"  only, he doesn't. 

The team that Bergevin inherited - the first years of his tenure as GM - we've won 17 playoff games and 3 rounds in the first 3 years
The team that Bergevin built (since the really major moves) we've won 2 playoff games and 0 rounds in the last 3 years.

I know Molson doesnt consider himself to have a "hockey mind" but simple mathmatics will tell you that the longer Bergevin has put his stamp on this team, the worse we do.

Id wish for the BOG to step in but our BOG is made up of:  
Geoff Molson (Governor)  
Kevin Gilmore (Canadiens COO),
Fred Steer (Canadiens CFO),
Michael Andlauer (Canadiens co-owner)
Andrew Molson (Molson Coors vice-chairman)
Marc Bergevin (Canadiens GM)

So unless Gilmore, Steer and Andlauer decide to veto Molson (who is the actual "governor" the rest are all alternate governors) then I think we're stuck with whatever Molson thinks is the right move... 

 

Fred Steer needs to start dropping truth bombs about losses in revenue because of poor performance. Maybe that'll convince Molson to budge!

GO FRED GO!

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