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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Im sorry but who cares where a player is drafted?  And how, exactly, does Gallagher having broken his hand have anything to do with saying one has had a great season while the other has not, despite being only 1 point different on the year?  

Im sure someone with stats can elaborate but he was playing on the 4th line well into november.  Gallagher, meanwhile never played with linemates as bad as Galchenuk.  I notice you conveniently skipped the part about Gallagher playing his natural RW all season long while AG has bounced between LW and RW even though his best offensive stretches have always come at centre. 

Come on, seriously?  We're not talking about 20 minutes a game vs 10.  Galcheyuk has averaged 16:04 per game  vs  Gallagher's 15:51  Thats 14 seconds. They basically play the same amount every night.    And yes, AG has more PP time. He has more PP points too, so that is a positive, no?    

And we're really going to discuss +/- with a straight face?    

I Care, and it seems like most people posting in this fourm care,  that is why we are hoping for a tank, if you have a top 5 pick you would expect that player to be better then a player picked at 150. At least I would?????

Here we go with the whining. Gallagher played with Plekanec  for most of the season while Galchenyk played with Droiun for most of the season. We both know The Galchenyk and Droiun would be starting in the offensive zone far more the Pleks and Gallagher.

Yes he does have more PP points and I am not sure if having more PP points is a positive. If the minutes were swapped would Gallagher have more points?

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6 hours ago, caperns61 said:

I will tell you why :). Gallagher has a cap hit of 3.75 million, Glachenyk has a cap hit of 4.9 million, Gallagher was picked in the 147th, Galchenyk was picked 3rd overall, surely you would expect more out of a 3rd overall pick compared to a pick at 147th. Not to mention breaking his hand twice. 

NO wayyyyyyyyyy gakchenyk played 1/3 of the season on the 4th line. That is a huggggge exaggeration. 

I can tell you though Gallgher has averaged less time on the ice this season and has played about 37 mins less on the PP then Galchenyk and I will not even get in to the defensive side of the game. Ahh maybe I will Glachenyk - 29 Gallagher - 12....

Galchenyuk's cap hit is higher right now. Last year, Galchenyuk had a cap hit of 2.8M (lower than Gallagher's) and he put up 44 pts to Gallagher's 29, despite playing fewer games than BG. In 2015-16, AG put up 56 pts at a 2.8M cap hit, and the year before that 46 pts at a cap hit of 925k. Who cares about the cap hit, who cares about where they were drafted, and for what it's worth, AG suffered a serious knee injury of his own and is apparently playing through a hand injury as we speak. So that goes both ways.

I'm not here to ride on Gallagher. The guy has been a best for us, he plays his heart out, and he's having a phenomenal season, particularly in the goal-scoring department. He's also done that despite playing a good share of games with Plekanec. That said, he's never been put in the doghouse the way Chucky has on repeated occasions. AG probably spent 8-10 games on the 3rd/4th lines early in the year this season and at least a dozen towards the end of last year, when he was playing behind the likes of Dwight King and Martinsen and Flynn. I'm not going to sit here and argue over which of Gallagher or Galchenyuk should be getting ice time because they both should be getting more than they're given. But to have nights where you play a guy like Galchenyuk 12-13 minutes while players like Froese, Deslauriers, King, Flynn, Moen, or whoever get more just doesn't make sense. Give me more AG, BG, Hudon, Scherbak, Lehkonen, Mete, Juulsen, etc. and let these guys grow and be the future of the team. What I don't want to see is grinders and slow character guys getting ice time over skill players, and I also don't think it's fair to try and single out Galchenyuk for playing poorly when he's having as good a year as anyone on the team.

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I think Gallagher is a substantially more effective player than Galchenyuk, 

At some point Galchenyuk is what he is, in his 6th pro season his track record of pro play suggests he's a 45-55 point 2nd line winger. I would have liked to see him get extended time at center but again, at some point you've got to wonder why it's now Therrien, Julien, coaches of team NA at the world cup, and the coaches of team USA at the WHC that see him as a winger and not a center. There's a non-zero chance they're wrong and his PPG stretches at center are representative, but the clock is ticking and I'm doubtful he suddenly puts it together and becomes a 1st line center at 25 in his 7th NHL season (then again I would have said the same about Brayden Schenn). 

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1 hour ago, Noob616 said:

I think Gallagher is a substantially more effective player than Galchenyuk, 

At some point Galchenyuk is what he is, in his 6th pro season his track record of pro play suggests he's a 45-55 point 2nd line winger. I would have liked to see him get extended time at center but again, at some point you've got to wonder why it's now Therrien, Julien, coaches of team NA at the world cup, and the coaches of team USA at the WHC that see him as a winger and not a center. There's a non-zero chance they're wrong and his PPG stretches at center are representative, but the clock is ticking and I'm doubtful he suddenly puts it together and becomes a 1st line center at 25 in his 7th NHL season (then again I would have said the same about Brayden Schenn). 

I think both guys are good at what they do. Gallagher is a more complete player, better defensively, and better along the boards, but Galchenyuk is a more skilled player with a better shot and better skating ability and puck control. They also complement each other well, and their PPG totals over their careers are pretty similar, with Gallagher probably having had more opportunity over that span. And by that, I mean they're close in terms of ice time (with Gallagher getting slightly more every year under Therrien and AG getting slightly more under CJ) but with AG spending more time in the proverbial doghouse and getting stuck with incompetent linemates.

AG has been more effective as a center offensively, and I think his defensive miscues are blown out of proportion given that we've accepted poor defensive play at center from Drouin and Desharnais with little complaint. Like you, I think it's getting a bit late in the game to develop AG as a center, but I think that's mainly on the Habs for not giving him the chance to play and develop there. The hypocritical Claude Julien stated a couple of weeks ago that he might go back to Drouin at center next year because he's improved with time and it's important to allow him to learn the position despite his mistakes... yet that same attitude was nowhere to be found with respect to Galchenyuk.

As another comparable outside of Schenn, look at Tyler Seguin, who also bounced around the line-up under Julien and put up 121 points in 203 games with Boston. After the trade to Dallas, where he's been allowed to play as a 1C, he's put up 4 30-goal seasons in 5 years (and might hit 40 this year) and has 377 points in 380 games. So his production has almost doubled and he's essentially a PPG player now. Granted, Seguin was younger when he got his opportunity, but you could see the change in scenery and opportunity allowed him to grow into the position. I truly wonder if we had given AG a new coach when he was 20 or 21 and allowed him to play freely as an offensive center, would we now have a PPG #1C too.

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Things will be different next year

We will sign Tavares

And then we'll have

CP who came off his worst year in the NHl

Weber will be 33 coming off a seaon ending injury year

Max and his worst year

and we'll be a contender

Sorry for the scarcasm but this team is bad !

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11 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Things will be different next year

We will sign Tavares

And then we'll have

CP who came off his worst year in the NHl

Weber will be 33 coming off a seaon ending injury year

Max and his worst year

and we'll be a contender

Sorry for the scarcasm but this team is bad !

If I were Tavares, I would want to go to a contender.

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23 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I think both guys are good at what they do. Gallagher is a more complete player, better defensively, and better along the boards, but Galchenyuk is a more skilled player with a better shot and better skating ability and puck control. They also complement each other well, and their PPG totals over their careers are pretty similar, with Gallagher probably having had more opportunity over that span. And by that, I mean they're close in terms of ice time (with Gallagher getting slightly more every year under Therrien and AG getting slightly more under CJ) but with AG spending more time in the proverbial doghouse and getting stuck with incompetent linemates.

I dunno, I don't really think they're that close at this point. That's not because I think Galchenyuk is bad but that I think Gallagher is probably the best forward on the team after Pacioretty and a supremely underrated player. They're different and complementary stylisically but Gallagher scores about as much as Galchenyuk while also being one of the most dominant possession drivers in the game, a strong penalty killer, acceptable defensively, and has far more utility up and down the lineup. As much as Galchenyuk's been given mediocre linemates/minutes at times it's not like Gallagher is getting the Desharnais (or Drouin) treatment either. He's going to pot 30 goals playing most of the year on a checking line with 35 year old Plekanec and a revolving door of rookies and grinders. Galchenyuk has certainly shown flashes of a much higher ceiling but at this point Gallagher's floor is just so much higher that I'd find it hard to favour Galchenyuk. I guess it ultimately doesn't matter since we have both players and there's no need to trade either, but I think it's important for evaluating the future of the team to think about Galchenyuk as what he's been for 6 pro seasons rather than what we dreamed of him becoming 6 years ago. 

23 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

AG has been more effective as a center offensively, and I think his defensive miscues are blown out of proportion given that we've accepted poor defensive play at center from Drouin and Desharnais with little complaint. Like you, I think it's getting a bit late in the game to develop AG as a center, but I think that's mainly on the Habs for not giving him the chance to play and develop there. The hypocritical Claude Julien stated a couple of weeks ago that he might go back to Drouin at center next year because he's improved with time and it's important to allow him to learn the position despite his mistakes... yet that same attitude was nowhere to be found with respect to Galchenyuk.

Yeah I agree with this, it's very frustrating in retrospect that defensive liabilities kept him out of the top 6 in favour of...Desharnais and Drouin. But I guess what I'm getting at is this is in the past and we can't just keep penciling in Galchenyuk to break out and become a 70+pt dominant scorer in the future, he's been a 45-55 point scoring winger his entire career and at this point there isn't much that suggests he'll be anything more. I guess the relevance for the future is the Habs will need to find some more high end scoring talent somehow, and if Habs' management are counting on natural progression from Galchenyuk and Drouin to drastically improve the team at forward I think we'll be disappointed. To be honest though I'm expecting him to be traded after this season which is a shame from a fan perspective since he's one of the few remaining players left on the team with any real panache.

 

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Nice video.

PK's gone on and continues to have success - individually and his team

MT was fired

DD was traded.

TP was traded but Im sure he'll be back because Montreal needs another old , overpaid 4 th liner .

MP had a bad year

And the Habs are a really bad hockey club.

Thank God for grit and character

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8 hours ago, CANADIENS27 said:

Last night, the recurring theme of no defense or penalty kill.  

 

 

This is on Bergevin and Julien this year. Despite Price and Weber (I'd include Patches too but he was pretty useless for a much of the season when healthy) being hurt our season was sealed by the brutal play of some of our UFA signings early in the year and Julien's inability to get his team to show up on the road most nights. We had an awful lot of players unable to function defensively (including forwards) for large parts of the season.  I think this is our lowest point total in modern NHL for a Hab team  and worst GF-GA differential that I can remember. No Excuses boys. If we are paying the same players for the same performances next year we are in trouble. I think we need to sign or trade Patches by draft day and I would not be breaking the bank for a 29 year old coming off  the season he just had if we can get some good assets for him. This leadership group has to be on their last legs in 2018. A replacement for Patches for captain should be Gallagher and if the players or coaches don't want to show up every night perhaps they could complain to him after each game.

This is definitely a year to remember and we will soon see the repercussions. This type of performance sheds light on the weaknesses in our system and Bergevin is currently standing in the spotlight. I have been a supporter of his moves in the past and still won't  complain about not signing Markov or Radulov. To be clear my problem is the signings he did in 2017-18 including the extension of the coach, and another summer of signing anyone but Tavares should be avoided. I may want a new GM and coach for Christmas, cause I sure don't want to see this  again.

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1 hour ago, Habberwacky said:

 We had an awful lot of players unable to function defensively (including forwards) for large parts of the season. 

Probably cause 3/4 of the D are / were # 5 to # 7 , or AHL D men, being asked to play the # 1, 2, 3 4 role .

 

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My thoughts ....

Weber, Patches and Price ... for a 1C and 1D ... rest of the lineup should settle down then, providing they play AG at center

     Drouin - 1C - Sherbek

     Lehkonen - AG - Gallagher

    Hudon - Danault - McCarron/Shaw

    Byron -  DLR - McCarron/Shaw

    1D - Mete

    Juulsun - Petry

   any of the rest of the D we currently own as the 5th/6th

   Lindgren and a UFA in net.

 

Oilers I say are an attractive partner ... Draisaitl, Nurse and a pick for Weber, Patches, Price :P

 

 

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20 hours ago, Habberwacky said:

 

This is definitely a year to remember and we will soon see the repercussions. This type of performance sheds light on the weaknesses in our system and Bergevin is currently standing in the spotlight. I have been a supporter of his moves in the past and still won't  complain about not signing Markov or Radulov. To be clear my problem is the signings he did in 2017-18 including the extension of the coach, and another summer of signing anyone but Tavares should be avoided. I may want a new GM and coach for Christmas, cause I sure don't want to see this  again.

There is zero chance Tavares signs here

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 François Gagnon took the opportunity to talk to some GM's about Max Pacioretty's situation.

That said, if some analysts and fans believe that the value of Pacioretty has decreased because of his difficult season, it doesn't seem to be the case at all.

Gagnon spoke with a general manager who said that the value of the Canadiens captain is still very high and that it will not go down at the NHL draft or during the off-season, as it's extremely difficult to find guys who can score 35 goals or more. 

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40 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Gagnon spoke with a general manager who said that the value of the Canadiens captain is still very high and that it will not go down at the NHL draft or during the off-season, as it's extremely difficult to find guys who can score 35 goals or more. 

which is why MB will not trade him and this team will have basically the same line up next year , as this year .

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17 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

which is why MB will not trade him and this team will have basically the same line up next year , as this year .

If MB can't sing Tavares, I think he's going to feel compelled to make a big trade just to show he's done something. I don't think he's going to trade Price or Weber because he's overly attached to them, but I wouldn't in the least be surprised if he trades Pacioretty and/or Galchenyuk. The problem as I see it is that I think he's going to deal Pacioretty for a player who is around the same age, rather than getting younger prospects or picks. I think MB still thinks this team can/will be competitive with some tweaking and some luck. So for me, it's not so much that he'll be reluctant to trade MP but moreso that he's going to make the wrong type of trade if he does.

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11 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

If MB can't sing Tavares, I think he's going to feel compelled to make a big trade just to show he's done something. I don't think he's going to trade Price or Weber because he's overly attached to them, but I wouldn't in the least be surprised if he trades Pacioretty and/or Galchenyuk. The problem as I see it is that I think he's going to deal Pacioretty for a player who is around the same age, rather than getting younger prospects or picks. I think MB still thinks this team can/will be competitive with some tweaking and some luck. So for me, it's not so much that he'll be reluctant to trade MP but moreso that he's going to make the wrong type of trade if he does.

Of course he believes this iteration of the team can win. He's going to immediately blame "injuries" (again) as soon as the season ends. He'll talk about Carey's "fatigue" condition and Weber's foot. That will be his excuse again. He'll point out how young guys like Charles Hudon were given an opportunity this year to show how the organization's development is a-okay!!!

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15 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

If MB can't sing Tavares, I think he's going to feel compelled to make a big trade just to show he's done something. I don't think he's going to trade Price or Weber because he's overly attached to them, but I wouldn't in the least be surprised if he trades Pacioretty and/or Galchenyuk. The problem as I see it is that I think he's going to deal Pacioretty for a player who is around the same age, rather than getting younger prospects or picks. I think MB still thinks this team can/will be competitive with some tweaking and some luck. So for me, it's not so much that he'll be reluctant to trade MP but moreso that he's going to make the wrong type of trade if he does.

I sort of feel like the only way we come out of this without another abysmal season is if MB gets ridiculously lucky.  As in:

- We get 1st overall & sign dahlin.    
- We sign Tavares
- We trade Pacioretty for a guy like RNH or similar.

We would probably be competitive right away but thats banking on adding a #1 dman via lottery, a #1 centre via free agency and a #2 centre via trade.  None of those are completely controllable (albeit Pacioretty for some #1a-2 centre is probably doable) and we will need a lot of stars aligning to make it happen.   But i fear thats "the plan."

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On ‎3‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 6:23 PM, Habberwacky said:

This is on Bergevin and Julien this year. Despite Price and Weber (I'd include Patches too but he was pretty useless for a much of the season when healthy) being hurt our season was sealed by the brutal play of some of our UFA signings early in the year and Julien's inability to get his team to show up on the road most nights. We had an awful lot of players unable to function defensively (including forwards) for large parts of the season.  I think this is our lowest point total in modern NHL for a Hab team  and worst GF-GA differential that I can remember. No Excuses boys. If we are paying the same players for the same performances next year we are in trouble. I think we need to sign or trade Patches by draft day and I would not be breaking the bank for a 29 year old coming off  the season he just had if we can get some good assets for him. This leadership group has to be on their last legs in 2018. A replacement for Patches for captain should be Gallagher and if the players or coaches don't want to show up every night perhaps they could complain to him after each game.

This is definitely a year to remember and we will soon see the repercussions. This type of performance sheds light on the weaknesses in our system and Bergevin is currently standing in the spotlight. I have been a supporter of his moves in the past and still won't  complain about not signing Markov or Radulov. To be clear my problem is the signings he did in 2017-18 including the extension of the coach, and another summer of signing anyone but Tavares should be avoided. I may want a new GM and coach for Christmas, cause I sure don't want to see this  again.

You might want a new coach and GM a lot sooner than Christmas.  

 

 

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