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18 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Agreed. The Subban trade was the beginning of the end for this team. We still feel the impact to this day.

I think it started with Eller. I think MB had a list of players he wanted to get rid of.

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2 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I think it started with Eller. I think MB had a list of players he wanted to get rid of.

played 81 games and scored 38 points.  Shaw played 51  or 52 and got 20. And isnt a center. and takes a lot of stupid penalties and gets hurt constantly. or more appropriately you could compare that to plekanec's 26 points, who is the person he should have replaced and been playing in his position

subban's 59 would have put him in 1st on the habs this year. weber to his defense missed 50 games....however with his age and miles this is what reality starts looking like. he isnt going to bounce back and contend for a norris next year

Those 2 moves alone are negative 20-30 points off the team total, which we then compounded by letting radulov and his 72 points leave for nothing.

anyway Im sure poor bergy will NOW start making savvy moves. 

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Mr Molson

https://twitter.com/BWildeRecrutes

Shortened translation: "the decision to trade PK was made months in advance. As an organization we just had to find the right fit. Without going into details, a change in the team was needed. When Weber became available, the decision was quick." #Habs

On the plan; "Yes, I'm aware of what is planned; I know the names of those who may be let go. But we need to wait and see who will be available after the first round of the playoffs."

"Another example was the John Scott trade; we should have told the fans that we took on Scott because the Coyotes wanted to get rid of his contract"

In addition to his comments about PK, Molson confirmed Bergevin would need to consult with him to make a deal of that magnitude

 

Me

Hey Geoff

I'm going to be transparent with you, I don't think attitude is the problem.

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8 hours ago, H_T_L said:

If Molson had to be consulted on the PK deal and he OK'ed it,,,,, then that doesn't say much about his hockey smarts. Bad enough we have a dumb GM,, now we know for a fact we have just as dumb an owner.

And to boot, Molson also confirms to us that Bergevin was lying repeatedly when he stated he wasn't trying to trade PK and that the trade was a last-minute decision to change plans... we all suspected/knew that to be true to some degree, but now we have confirmation from the owner's mouth that the organization has been lying to us. Gives me no reason to believe Bergevin ever again when he feeds us more of his garbage. Why should we believe him with respect to Radulov or Markov or so on now either?

On the John Scott trade, Molson stated that "the real reason we took John Scott was because Arizona wanted to get rid of his salary." That remains a lie to some degree. Sure, Arizona may have wanted to dump Scott's salary. But we'd like to dump Alzner's and Schlemko's and we wanted to dump Gomez' and Desharnais' and so on before that. Every team has got players whose salaries they want to dump. No one helps you out unless they're giving you something else. So what did we get in that deal outside of Scott? We dealt Tinordi for Bartley, a player who had been on waivers and available for free just days before the trade. So no, I don't believe for a second that we just did Arizona a favor and I don't believe we took on Scott because we were so excited to get Bartley in the deal. There's more there that Molson isn't telling us. So much for transparency. More like hypocrisy.

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

On the John Scott trade, Molson stated that "the real reason we took John Scott was because Arizona wanted to get rid of his salary." That remains a lie to some degree. Sure, Arizona may have wanted to dump Scott's salary. But we'd like to dump Alzner's and Schlemko's and we wanted to dump Gomez' and Desharnais' and so on before that. Every team has got players whose salaries they want to dump. No one helps you out unless they're giving you something else. So what did we get in that deal outside of Scott? We dealt Tinordi for Bartley, a player who had been on waivers and available for free just days before the trade. So no, I don't believe for a second that we just did Arizona a favor and I don't believe we took on Scott because we were so excited to get Bartley in the deal. There's more there that Molson isn't telling us. So much for transparency. More like hypocrisy.

Celine Dion tickets

 

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

And to boot, Molson also confirms to us that Bergevin was lying repeatedly when he stated he wasn't trying to trade PK and that the trade was a last-minute decision to change plans... we all suspected/knew that to be true to some degree, but now we have confirmation from the owner's mouth that the organization has been lying to us. Gives me no reason to believe Bergevin ever again when he feeds us more of his garbage. Why should we believe him with respect to Radulov or Markov or so on now either?

On the John Scott trade, Molson stated that "the real reason we took John Scott was because Arizona wanted to get rid of his salary." That remains a lie to some degree. Sure, Arizona may have wanted to dump Scott's salary. But we'd like to dump Alzner's and Schlemko's and we wanted to dump Gomez' and Desharnais' and so on before that. Every team has got players whose salaries they want to dump. No one helps you out unless they're giving you something else. So what did we get in that deal outside of Scott? We dealt Tinordi for Bartley, a player who had been on waivers and available for free just days before the trade. So no, I don't believe for a second that we just did Arizona a favor and I don't believe we took on Scott because we were so excited to get Bartley in the deal. There's more there that Molson isn't telling us. So much for transparency. More like hypocrisy.

to some degree? haha its a total lie.

whats transparent is that scott was gonna make the all star game and bettman didnt want that to happen. and bergevin helped facilitate them keeping him out of the game. thats clearly what it was all about, and it shows that marc is a scumbag. he disgraced the entire franchise, we are supposed to be all about class. 

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21 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Shortened translation: "the decision to trade PK was made months in advance. As an organization we just had to find the right fit. Without going into details, a change in the team was needed. When Weber became available, the decision was quick."

This is even worse that what it looked before.   Originally the story we were told was that Subban wasnt being shopped, Poile called and asked what it would take to get PK and MB responded with Weber.     Now we know that we were actively shopping him for months???   So I would imagine the rumours from Vancouver and Edmonton were probably accurate. That means instead of a former elite defensman who will probably not age well, we could have gotten a #1centre not yet in his prime, a top prospect (on either wing or defense, depending upon which rumour you believe) and a 1st rounder.  

Great move guys. 

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If you believe Michel Bergeron (in his article in La Journal) He suggests that MB and GM were clearly identifying Pacioretty and Price as the "attitude problems" in the montreal dressing room.  His arguments are sound and I dont think any of us would be shocked if true.

What makes this interesting though is that it seems clear MB plans on making some big moves this summer.  

- Most insiders say its all but a done deal he's trading Pacioretty.  
- It seems like Galchenyuk may have earned a reprieve with both Julien and MB gushing over him towards the end of the season.  
- Weber and Drouin are two of MB's most high profile moves, they arent going anywhere
- Gallagher was one of the lone bright spots last year. He's likely safe
- There are plenty of guys like Shaw and Byron and Lehkonen and McCarron etc who might be moved.  I dont think any have a ton of value so these wont be "the big move(s)" we are expecting.

But where does Price fit into this?   At times MB has called him "untouchable" but it seems like he might have been singled out as an "attitude" problem at the presser.  Also, Waite took a guy two hrs away from retirement & made him look like Prime Neimi.  And we still have Lindgren. 

Could MB actually trade Price? Would he actually consider it?  What sort of return could we get?    There are teams who are in desperate need of a goaltender. And Price is certainly as high profile as the come.  But will MB actually do it?  

Should be an interesting summer. 

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:


Could MB actually trade Price? Would he actually consider it?  What sort of return could we get?    There are teams who are in desperate need of a goaltender. And Price is certainly as high profile as the come.  But will MB actually do it?  

Yes he could , he traded PK when he said he wasn't looking into it

Return , no idea . I wouldn't trade young promising prospects for a billion $ goalie .

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8 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Return , no idea . I wouldn't trade young promising prospects for a billion $ goalie .

You have to wonder if an old school GM like Chiarelli or Snow or even Benning  might be interested.    

There wouldnt be a lot of teams on the list but you only need one. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

You have to wonder if an old school GM like Chiarelli or Snow or even Benning  might be interested.    

There wouldnt be a lot of teams on the list but you only need one. 

 

oilers, and you want back either draisatl on a more or less 1 for 1, or they give us nuge, klefbom and whatever else we could get them to throw in

islanders and I want barzal.

flyers and I want a package including the ghost

st louis and i want thomas, kyrou, dunn and whatever else they wanna give us

Im totally on board. we should have did it instead of signing him, like how ottawa is gonna clean up trading karlsson and be way better off for it

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39 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

Wow. What a season...

I was so optimistic going into this year, aren't I red faced :/

You know, i think there was room for optimism.  I know the doom and gloom people like to say "told you so" but these same characters tend to disappear when we win and only come back during losing stretches.  Its easy to look like Nostradamus when your odds of not winning the cup are 30 out of 31 teams.

A lot of things went wrong this year that were predictable (markov + radulov >>>>>>> streit + Hemsky) some were iffy (schlemko looked way better than emelin when he was in NJ and SJ) and others were totally out of the blue (price flaming out, weber getting hurt in game 1). 

I think if we didnt have all that bad luck we're probably a bubble team. So not nearly as good as MB seemed to think we were, but probably not as bad as we looked at times this year. 

 

Quote

Even still, I think the potential for a drastic turn around is there.

It saddens me to say it, but a few more losses down the stretch would have been helpful.

I agree. If you brought in David Poile tomorrow I bet you we'd be a borderline contender by the time the season started.   We have some key trade pieces, some good overall depth we just have glaring holes that MB seems unwilling or unable to fill.

I am cautiously optimistic for next year.  I dont know if anything will change but i sure hope so. 

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12 minutes ago, maas_art said:

A lot of things went wrong this year that were predictable (markov + radulov >>>>>>> streit + Hemsky) some were iffy (schlemko looked way better than emelin when he was in NJ and SJ) and others were totally out of the blue (price flaming out, weber getting hurt in game 1). 

I think if we didnt have all that bad luck we're probably a bubble team. So not nearly as good as MB seemed to think we were, but probably not as bad as we looked at times this year

Agreed. We lost Markov and Radulov, I believe, as a direct result to the Price signing (big mistake). Streit and Hemsky were just cheap gambles that didn't pay off, no biggy. Alzner hurt. looked serviceable down the stretch with Juulsen, but man, that contract... Schlemko being hurt right out of the gate really didn't help. to the point that I'm still not sure how I feel about'em, or where he fits from here on. 

The bright note I suppose is that thanks to all that bad luck, we're sitting on what looks to be a juicy first round pick, with a slew of others. if we use them well, we should be able to restock them cupboards in a hurry.

13 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I agree. If you brought in David Poile tomorrow I bet you we'd be a borderline contender by the time the season started.   We have some key trade pieces, some good overall depth we just have glaring holes that MB seems unwilling or unable to fill.

I am cautiously optimistic for next year.  I dont know if anything will change but i sure hope so. 

First thing is first, I'd like to see us pull of a Galchenyuk/O'Reilly swap at the draft.

Second, throw $10 mil at Tavares, see if we can get it to stick.

Probably not a whole lot we're going to be able to do about our LD (unless of course the lotto gods smile upon us :), but after seeing what Mete and Juulsen can bring to the table, maybe it's not as bad as it seems..? Healthy Webber, healthy Schlemko..?

It would take some serious financial management, but can you imagine what Mr T and ROR could do for our lineup? Get them in there, watch Tavares turn Patches into a 40 goal scorer, THEN trade him at the deadline.

For the time being, that's my wish list.

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

You know, i think there was room for optimism.  I know the doom and gloom people like to say "told you so" but these same characters tend to disappear when we win and only come back during losing stretches.  Its easy to look like Nostradamus when your odds of not winning the cup are 30 out of 31 teams.

A lot of things went wrong this year that were predictable (markov + radulov >>>>>>> streit + Hemsky) some were iffy (schlemko looked way better than emelin when he was in NJ and SJ) and others were totally out of the blue (price flaming out, weber getting hurt in game 1). 

I think if we didnt have all that bad luck we're probably a bubble team. So not nearly as good as MB seemed to think we were, but probably not as bad as we looked at times this year. 

Just to add to that, the Drouin trade - while always looking iffy long-term - didn't lose us anything from the previous season and in theory at least replaced Radulov.  Taking that into account, really Markov was the only big loss we failed to replace from the year before. 

There were enough good players there that being a bubble-team was a totally justifiable prediction. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see the team make the playoffs next year. On paper this still isn't a bad team, it has major holes but isn't a barren wasteland.  My bigger concern at this point is the lack of top prospects and questionable long-term commitments that could turn really sour in a hurry (Weber, Price) or already look bad (mainly Alzner), along with two of our better forwards reaching UFA status in the next 2 offseasons (although at least we have cap-space so could mitigate that one).

 

 

 

3 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

I agree. If you brought in David Poile tomorrow I bet you we'd be a borderline contender by the time the season started.   We have some key trade pieces, some good overall depth we just have glaring holes that MB seems unwilling or unable to fill.

I am cautiously optimistic for next year.  I dont know if anything will change but i sure hope so. 

 

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2 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

Just to add to that, the Drouin trade - while always looking iffy long-term - didn't lose us anything from the previous season and in theory at least replaced Radulov.  Taking that into account, really Markov was the only big loss we failed to replace from the year before. 

There were enough good players there that being a bubble-team was a totally justifiable prediction. Honestly I wouldn't be shocked to see the team make the playoffs next year. On paper this still isn't a bad team, it has major holes but isn't a barren wasteland.  My bigger concern at this point is the lack of top prospects and questionable long-term commitments that could turn really sour in a hurry (Weber, Price) or already look bad (mainly Alzner), along with two of our better forwards reaching UFA status in the next 2 offseasons (although at least we have cap-space so could mitigate that one).

 

 

 

 

In theory we lost Radulov AND Sergachev to get Drouin.

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Curiously, do we think that center ice or defense is the biggest problem heading into next season? I feel like we're going to have a harder time finding any solution to our problem on D. Yes, we can say that Victor Mete and Noah Juulsen playing from game 1 will make the team better, but we should also be cautious about assuming too much "development" from a 19-year old and a 21-year old. They could just as easily have a tough year. Especially if Shea Weber isn't around to anchor the D due to injury. And that's another concern... Can we expect Weber to make it 60-70 games next season? Less? 

Alzner, Schlemko, Benn... In a perfect world they would be competing for a bottom pairing spot. However, I don't believe that's going to happen with Bergevin at the helm. These guys will likely be getting regular minutes next season.

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7 hours ago, habs1952 said:

In theory we lost Radulov AND Sergachev to get Drouin.

Not really we still had the money to sign Radulov after signing Drouin. You can debate the signing process but Radulov ended up making his decision which actual dollars to dollars would of been tough to match. Signing Alzner was what made us unable to afford Markov also. If done properly we could of easily had Markov , Radulov , while still making the Drouin trade.

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Just now, CaptWelly said:

Not really we still had the money to sign Radulov after signing Drouin. You can debate the signing process but Radulov ended up making his decision which actual dollars to dollars would of been tough to match. Signing Alzner was what made us unable to afford Markov also. If done properly we could of easily had Markov , Radulov , while still making the Drouin trade.

Yeah, we didn't lose Sergachev, Radulov, and/or Markov to get Drouin... Our G.M. lost Radulov and Markov all on his own. For nothing.

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4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Curiously, do we think that center ice or defense is the biggest problem heading into next season? I feel like we're going to have a harder time finding any solution to our problem on D. Yes, we can say that Victor Mete and Noah Juulsen playing from game 1 will make the team better, but we should also be cautious about assuming too much "development" from a 19-year old and a 21-year old. They could just as easily have a tough year. Especially if Shea Weber isn't around to anchor the D due to injury. And that's another concern... Can we expect Weber to make it 60-70 games next season? Less? 

Alzner, Schlemko, Benn... In a perfect world they would be competing for a bottom pairing spot. However, I don't believe that's going to happen with Bergevin at the helm. These guys will likely be getting regular minutes next season.

Bergevin is the biggest problem heading into next year. He's proven he's incapable of doing the job.

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