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5 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Curiously, do we think that center ice or defense is the biggest problem heading into next season? I feel like we're going to have a harder time finding any solution to our problem on D. Yes, we can say that Victor Mete and Noah Juulsen playing from game 1 will make the team better, but we should also be cautious about assuming too much "development" from a 19-year old and a 21-year old. They could just as easily have a tough year. Especially if Shea Weber isn't around to anchor the D due to injury. And that's another concern... Can we expect Weber to make it 60-70 games next season? Less? 

Alzner, Schlemko, Benn... In a perfect world they would be competing for a bottom pairing spot. However, I don't believe that's going to happen with Bergevin at the helm. These guys will likely be getting regular minutes next season.

From a personnel standpoint i think centre is a bigger problem.   We have more than enough wingers (especially left wings) and we have several wing prospects who are capable of stepping in.  We are barren at centre.  Danault is a fine #3  We have plenty of options at #4 and we could always sign someone if we choose. I think there are #2's available (Stasny, Bozak) and in a couple of years I think Poehling can step into that role.  But #1?   I think thats a huge hole.   Drouin is not a #1c.  I thought Galchenyuk was one but clearly he wont be given a chance there.   So we have to not only fill #2 (and possibly #4) but we also have to fill the #1 hole.   So imho we have ONE of our top 4 centres right now.  Maybe 2.

On defense we have a gaping hole next to Weber but our biggest problem is how we use what we have.  

Weber and Petry are still good players.  Both are arguably top pairing guys and definitely top 4. 

Mete, Juulsen, Reilly all look like they should be regular NHLers. At least one of them is probably a top 4. 

Valiev &  Benn (and maybe Lernout) are probably NHLers but maybe #5-6 only.  

Alzner & Schlemko were horrendous last year.  is that all they have? Can they be better? Will they be back even?   Dunno.

Between the first 6-7 guys I mentioned I think we have 5 of the top 6 spots and its not a horrendous group.   Adding in a guy who fits in the top 2 would be a huge boost to this team.    If you could trade Pacioretty for a top 2 puck moving dman and stop playing alzner and schlemko, this defense is already better. I heard a rumour out of calgary (patches for TJ Brodie & a centre prospect):

Brodie - Weber
Mete - Petry
Reilly - Juulsen

Is already worlds better than what we had last year.  But i firmly believe our defense was worse than it had to be simply because of how we used our personnel

 

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20 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Bergevin is the biggest problem heading into next year. He's proven he's incapable of doing the job.

Totally. And i firmly believe its spilled into Julien too - that either MB is micromanaging him or Julien feels like he has to play the players MB got him. 

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I think at this point, it's a little bit basic to talk about Radulov/Markov vs. Drouin/etc... if you compare our 2017-18 roster to the one before it, you can argue the forward group was better this past year as a whole. Drouin theoretically should have been able to replace the minutes and scoring Radulov's absence created, except that Radulov also seemed to play with an edge and was well-liked by his teammates, and showed up in clutch situations. Drouin didn't really do that this year, for whatever reason.

Going into the season, though, it was fair to call Radulov for Drouin a wash. You then had Lehkonen being a year more experienced and the addition of Hudon as a regular and there was definitely some hope there with respect to scoring depth. What went wrong? Hemsky flamed out quickly. Plekanec was still being asked to play reasonably big minutes as a center. Galchenyuk was bounced around a lot. Drouin never developed as a top 6 center. And Pacioretty had his worst year in half a decade. That last one was probably the killer. If max pots 35-40 goals this year, we likely have 5 more wins. That said, I really didn't see the forward group as the biggest reason for our poor season, despite the lack of true top centers.

Now look at where the bigger problems were. In goal, Carey was atrocious. Replace .900 goaltending with .920 goaltending and again, that's maybe 6-8 more wins, maybe more. Look at the defence: Alzner, Benn, Schlemko, Morrow, and Streit at the start of the year were all negatives by virtue of their presence. We would have been better off going in with Mete, Juulsen, Lernout, etc. full-time. We saw that towards the end of the year. You went from Subban to Weber (older and slower) to injured Weber for 25 games (even slower) to no Weber (which meant an even bigger dose of the non-NHL quality bunch listed above). I showed some of the analysis here that was done in season where the Habs D crew ranked worst in the league looking at collective stats like breakouts and passing and loos puck recovery and so on. Simply put, they were brutal. They didn't support the offence, they didn't re-launch the attack quickly, and the forwards paid for that. Put Subban and Beaulieu back in there instead of Weber and Alzner and chances are Pacioretty would have scored more and Drouin would have scored more and so on down the line.

So yes, we need centers. Yes, some of our forwards under-performed. But to me, the bigger issue to resolve is clearing out the clutter from our D line and finding some puck-moving top end D men. I think despite the lack of elite scoring forwards, we have good enough talent up front to be able to generate goals if the D were better. Get a 1C but still play Alzner-Schlemko-Benn as half your D corps, and the team will still suck next year.

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9 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I think at this point, it's a little bit basic to talk about Radulov/Markov vs. Drouin/etc... if you compare our 2017-18 roster to the one before it, you can argue the forward group was better this past year as a whole. Drouin theoretically should have been able to replace the minutes and scoring Radulov's absence created, except that Radulov also seemed to play with an edge and was well-liked by his teammates, and showed up in clutch situations. Drouin didn't really do that this year, for whatever reason.

Going into the season, though, it was fair to call Radulov for Drouin a wash. You then had Lehkonen being a year more experienced and the addition of Hudon as a regular and there was definitely some hope there with respect to scoring depth. What went wrong? Hemsky flamed out quickly. Plekanec was still being asked to play reasonably big minutes as a center. Galchenyuk was bounced around a lot. Drouin never developed as a top 6 center. And Pacioretty had his worst year in half a decade. That last one was probably the killer. If max pots 35-40 goals this year, we likely have 5 more wins. That said, I really didn't see the forward group as the biggest reason for our poor season, despite the lack of true top centers.

Now look at where the bigger problems were. In goal, Carey was atrocious. Replace .900 goaltending with .920 goaltending and again, that's maybe 6-8 more wins, maybe more. Look at the defence: Alzner, Benn, Schlemko, Morrow, and Streit at the start of the year were all negatives by virtue of their presence. We would have been better off going in with Mete, Juulsen, Lernout, etc. full-time. We saw that towards the end of the year. You went from Subban to Weber (older and slower) to injured Weber for 25 games (even slower) to no Weber (which meant an even bigger dose of the non-NHL quality bunch listed above). I showed some of the analysis here that was done in season where the Habs D crew ranked worst in the league looking at collective stats like breakouts and passing and loos puck recovery and so on. Simply put, they were brutal. They didn't support the offence, they didn't re-launch the attack quickly, and the forwards paid for that. Put Subban and Beaulieu back in there instead of Weber and Alzner and chances are Pacioretty would have scored more and Drouin would have scored more and so on down the line.

So yes, we need centers. Yes, some of our forwards under-performed. But to me, the bigger issue to resolve is clearing out the clutter from our D line and finding some puck-moving top end D men. I think despite the lack of elite scoring forwards, we have good enough talent up front to be able to generate goals if the D were better. Get a 1C but still play Alzner-Schlemko-Benn as half your D corps, and the team will still suck next year.

I tend to agree defense is really where things have gotten predictably worse. Price and Pacioretty slumps were unexpected, but the impact of moving out all of our puck-moving defenseman for "steady" types was predictable to anyone not stuck in the dead-puck era.

While Pittsburgh has shown offensive firepower can make up for a question defense, Nashville has shown you don't necessarily need great forwards if you have a strong d-corps (despite winning the President's trophy, Forseberg was the only Nashville player remotely close to PPG, and also the only one to hit 30 goals - if you extrapolate his stats to 82 games, and even then just barely).  What's so unfortunate is Montreal was so close to having an elite defense - with a year or two more of development, imagine what Subban, Sergachev, Mete, Petry, Beaulieu, and Juulsen plus a couple depth pieces could look like as a group. 

 

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18 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

I tend to agree defense is really where things have gotten predictably worse. Price and Pacioretty slumps were unexpected, but the impact of moving out all of our puck-moving defenseman for "steady" types was predictable to anyone not stuck in the dead-puck era.

While Pittsburgh has shown offensive firepower can make up for a question defense, Nashville has shown you don't necessarily need great forwards if you have a strong d-corps (despite winning the President's trophy, Forseberg was the only Nashville player remotely close to PPG, and also the only one to hit 30 goals - if you extrapolate his stats to 82 games, and even then just barely).  What's so unfortunate is Montreal was so close to having an elite defense - with a year or two more of development, imagine what Subban, Sergachev, Mete, Petry, Beaulieu, and Juulsen plus a couple depth pieces could look like as a group. 

 

If you look at our current defence, it's almost salvageable with a little work and/or luck. I still believe Mete-Petry is a good 2nd pairing. Constructing a 3rd pairing shouldn't be the hardest job for a general manager IF IF IF the top 4 is built properly. Look at Nashville, with maybe the best group of 4 D men in the league, and they're still hiding guys like Emelin and Yannick Weber on their back end. So I can believe that we can find two 3rd pairing guys out of players like Reilly, Valiev, Lernout, Brook, Fleury, etc. over the next couple of years, or simply finding 1-2 guys on the trade or free agency market without giving up much. There are really two things that need to be done to correct the D:

1. Addition by subtraction: we need to remove the pieces that are hurting us. We dumped Streit. We dumped Morrow. But there's work to be done to relieve ourselves of Alzner, Schlemko, and Benn. Benn is the easiest to swallow still being on the team and the easiest to dump by virtue of his having the shortest and cheapest contract, in addition to his being the least awful of the three. But as I said, as long as we have those three in our line-up, they're going to hurt us and we won't be able to win. I think the rest of the roster knows this too, and it's a prime example of how Bergevin's lack of judgment is hurting us and will continue to hurt us over the length of these types of contracts.

2. The first pairing needs to be fixed. We keep coming back to this, but not only is Subban the superior player to Weber, he's also a guy who's easier to pair with anyone else. Weber really needs to be paired with a good skater and a guy who can move the puck. Subban has been great playing next to the likes of Emelin and Gill. If we're to keep Weber (which I don't think is a great plan), then we absolutely have to have a 1A PMD next to him. Dahlin could likely grow into that role. I even wonder if a draft pick like Quinn Hughes could be a nice fit, as he's mobile and fantastic with the puck but needs a guy next to him with size and defensive ability. Sergachev could have been a good fit too. But barring a draft solution, it means MB is going to have to do a lot of work to find a guy like that. What would likely be easier is dealing Weber for a puck moving #1 D man or else dealing Weber for a center and trading Price or Pacioretty for a 1D. These types of moves would also free up the money needed to go after the likes of Tavares or ROR or in a year, maybe someone like Karlsson or Doughty or whoever else if you believe in pipe dreams. But put that part of it aside. The bottom line is that if you can trade Weber for a puck-moving 1D, then it opens the pool of who you need to sign or trade for to get the player to go next to him. Another option would be to target a player like John Carlson in free agency this summer. Washington's going to have cap trouble trying to re-sign him, so he may hit market. Sign him as your 1D and then you're free to trade Weber and Pacioretty to get a 2D and a center in some order again. There are options, but it's going to take some amount of luck in the draft or work from Bergevin to make the trades/signings to rectify his past errors.

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http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/jack-todd-marc-bergevin-shows-how-not-to-take-responsibility-for-poor-performance

 

Then it was Bergevin’s turn. Maybe he should have stuck with the clichés, because what he trotted out for the cameras was an embarrassment. “It was a disappointing season from start to finish and that is unacceptable,” Bergevin said – a statement with which no one could disagree.

“The overall attitude needs to change,” Bergevin went on. “I think an attitude changes a lot of things. Of course good players make things better, but if you have good players with the right attitude. … I could bring anyone in here, but if the attitude is not better, we’re going to be in the same spot.”

So who was responsible for putting together this team full of players with rotten attitudes? Don Cherry? Fonzie? Drake? Minnie Mouse?

Call me crazy but I could swear Marc Bergevin has been GM of the Montreal Canadiens for six seasons now. If there is a bad attitude in the room, surely he is responsible? What good does it do to shift the burden to the players, when you selected those players?

One of Bergevin’s real accomplishments when he came here was to change the culture left by outgoing GM Pierre (The Ghost) Gauthier. Gauthier was on a virtual war footing with his players after his shabby treatment of a couple of traded players (notably Mike Cammalleri). Gauthier was so tense he could make coffee nervous and it rubbed off on the entire organization.

Enter Bergevin, a guy you could have a beer with, a prankster with a sense of humour, a man who could get everyone to loosen up. Six years on, however, Bergevin is beginning to seem more and more like Gauthier. Next thing you know, we’ll be hearing the players were forced to eat a vegan meal on the plane following a bad game on the West Coast.

Really, what Bergevin needed to say was achingly simple: “I blew it. We needed Andrei Markov and Alexander Radulov, we needed them badly, and I went about it all wrong. It was too little, too late. I should have been out in front with both of them and locked them up early and I didn’t and that set the tone for this entire disaster.

“It’s on me, ladies and gentlemen. I’m the GM, I’m the one who messed up.”

But like his team’s season, the GM’s exit interview was a disappointment from start to finish.

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8 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

 

“The overall attitude needs to change,” Bergevin went on. “I think an attitude changes a lot of things. Of course good players make things better, but if you have good players with the right attitude. … I could bring anyone in here, but if the attitude is not better, we’re going to be in the same spot.”

 

You know, trading Subban for his "attitude" ... yeah, how's that working for you MB?

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

This is probably the greatest thing ive ever seen.  it looks to be a couple of years old, but its still applicable. 

CaSipJSXEAEMxVV.png-large (1).png

Love it :4224: pretty much covers everything. 

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More criticism of Molson, Bergevin, and the Habs management from The Gazette:

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/what-the-puck-habs-need-to-restructure-their-management-group

Quote: "It’s about a management group that acts on emotion, makes huge decisions without thinking them through and, at its worst, is small-minded and petty."

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

More criticism of Molson, Bergevin, and the Habs management from The Gazette:

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/what-the-puck-habs-need-to-restructure-their-management-group

Quote: "It’s about a management group that acts on emotion, makes huge decisions without thinking them through and, at its worst, is small-minded and petty."

First line of article:  "During their post-season mea culpa routine, Molson and Bergevin kept saying there's a plan. But it doesn't seem like there is a plan."

They're wrong; the plan is to say they have a plan ... that's it!

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

More criticism of Molson, Bergevin, and the Habs management from The Gazette:

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/what-the-puck-habs-need-to-restructure-their-management-group

Quote: "It’s about a management group that acts on emotion, makes huge decisions without thinking them through and, at its worst, is small-minded and petty."

Bang on.  Its ridiculous, infuriating and is going to cost them a LOT of fans.  Its the habs, so im sure they will come back eventually but for now this is a very very bad move from every standpoint, including business. 

 

7 minutes ago, rocketbelifleur said:

First line of article:  "During their post-season mea culpa routine, Molson and Bergevin kept saying there's a plan. But it doesn't seem like there is a plan."

They're wrong; the plan is to say they have a plan ... that's it!

Yup. There absolutely is no plan aside from saying there's one. When you trade Subban for Weber you can say "its all part of the plan."  When you dont resign Radulov and then Markov you can say "we're still following through with our plan," thats fine but at some point it becomes evident that there is and never was a plan. 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

More criticism of Molson, Bergevin, and the Habs management from The Gazette:

http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/what-the-puck-habs-need-to-restructure-their-management-group

Quote: "It’s about a management group that acts on emotion, makes huge decisions without thinking them through and, at its worst, is small-minded and petty."

Very good article. I was gonna post it but you beat me to it. ;)

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24 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Bang on.  Its ridiculous, infuriating and is going to cost them a LOT of fans.  Its the habs, so im sure they will come back eventually but for now this is a very very bad move from every standpoint, including business. 

 

Yup. There absolutely is no plan aside from saying there's one. When you trade Subban for Weber you can say "its all part of the plan."  When you dont resign Radulov and then Markov you can say "we're still following through with our plan," thats fine but at some point it becomes evident that there is and never was a plan. 

I'm still bitter about the Subban trade. That's the bottom line. Like a lot of other fans here, I loved watching Subban play. He was dynamic and you always felt like he could take over a game. Forget whether you like him or dislike him as a person, there just aren't a ton of players in the league who can do what he does on the ice. Kovalev was like that too. But in the absence of a dominant team, one of the few things that makes it worth watching and following the team is having stars like that you wow you with their skill.

At the end of the day, we never replaced it. If we had dealt Subban for a haul of players like Draisaitl, Nurse, and RNH, then yes, you find a way of explaining that to your fans. If you trade Subban for a Barzal or another guy who can dance on the ice, you can generate excitement again. But we didn't. We traded Subban for a guy who was past his prime and then we lied about what we were doing and why we did it... so the Habs haven't been forgiven and quite frankly don't deserve to be forgiven. Bergevin took a fan favorite player and traded him away and he did it seemingly without a care that he was making the team worse and he did it for personal spite.

So as long as Bergevin is still in place and as long as the Habs haven't given us another electric star to replace Subban and as long as they're not dominating, there just isn't a reason to feel good about this team and the damage that management has done that cost us a shot at being a real contender.

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6 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm still bitter about the Subban trade. That's the bottom line. Like a lot of other fans here, I loved watching Subban play. He was dynamic and you always felt like he could take over a game. Forget whether you like him or dislike him as a person, there just aren't a ton of players in the league who can do what he does on the ice. Kovalev was like that too. But in the absence of a dominant team, one of the few things that makes it worth watching and following the team is having stars like that you wow you with their skill.

At the end of the day, we never replaced it. If we had dealt Subban for a haul of players like Draisaitl, Nurse, and RNH, then yes, you find a way of explaining that to your fans. If you trade Subban for a Barzal or another guy who can dance on the ice, you can generate excitement again. But we didn't. We traded Subban for a guy who was past his prime and then we lied about what we were doing and why we did it... so the Habs haven't been forgiven and quite frankly don't deserve to be forgiven. Bergevin took a fan favorite player and traded him away and he did it seemingly without a care that he was making the team worse and he did it for personal spite.

So as long as Bergevin is still in place and as long as the Habs haven't given us another electric star to replace Subban and as long as they're not dominating, there just isn't a reason to feel good about this team and the damage that management has done that cost us a shot at being a real contender.

Me too. That was the beginning of the end for us thanks to Bergevin & Molson.

That's why a cleanup from the top to the bottom has to happen before we can become a Stanley Cup contender again.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm still bitter about the Subban trade. That's the bottom line. Like a lot of other fans here, I loved watching Subban play. He was dynamic and you always felt like he could take over a game. Forget whether you like him or dislike him as a person, there just aren't a ton of players in the league who can do what he does on the ice. Kovalev was like that too. But in the absence of a dominant team, one of the few things that makes it worth watching and following the team is having stars like that you wow you with their skill.

At the end of the day, we never replaced it. If we had dealt Subban for a haul of players like Draisaitl, Nurse, and RNH, then yes, you find a way of explaining that to your fans. If you trade Subban for a Barzal or another guy who can dance on the ice, you can generate excitement again. But we didn't. We traded Subban for a guy who was past his prime and then we lied about what we were doing and why we did it... so the Habs haven't been forgiven and quite frankly don't deserve to be forgiven. Bergevin took a fan favorite player and traded him away and he did it seemingly without a care that he was making the team worse and he did it for personal spite.

So as long as Bergevin is still in place and as long as the Habs haven't given us another electric star to replace Subban and as long as they're not dominating, there just isn't a reason to feel good about this team and the damage that management has done that cost us a shot at being a real contender.

I hope if Subban wins the cup he takes it to the Montreal chidren's Hospital.

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On ‎17‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 8:26 AM, jennifer_rocket said:

Curiously, do we think that center ice or defense is the biggest problem heading into next season? I feel like we're going to have a harder time finding any solution to our problem on D. Yes, we can say that Victor Mete and Noah Juulsen playing from game 1 will make the team better, but we should also be cautious about assuming too much "development" from a 19-year old and a 21-year old. They could just as easily have a tough year. Especially if Shea Weber isn't around to anchor the D due to injury. And that's another concern... Can we expect Weber to make it 60-70 games next season? Less? 

Both , and Weber could be a problem too. Hes going to be 33 ; look at the year Duncan Keith just had

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I'm still bitter about the Subban trade. That's the bottom line. Like a lot of other fans here, I loved watching Subban play. He was dynamic and you always felt like he could take over a game. Forget whether you like him or dislike him as a person, there just aren't a ton of players in the league who can do what he does on the ice. Kovalev was like that too. But in the absence of a dominant team, one of the few things that makes it worth watching and following the team is having stars like that you wow you with their skill.

At the end of the day, we never replaced it. If we had dealt Subban for a haul of players like Draisaitl, Nurse, and RNH, then yes, you find a way of explaining that to your fans. If you trade Subban for a Barzal or another guy who can dance on the ice, you can generate excitement again. But we didn't. We traded Subban for a guy who was past his prime and then we lied about what we were doing and why we did it... so the Habs haven't been forgiven and quite frankly don't deserve to be forgiven. Bergevin took a fan favorite player and traded him away and he did it seemingly without a care that he was making the team worse and he did it for personal spite.

So as long as Bergevin is still in place and as long as the Habs haven't given us another electric star to replace Subban and as long as they're not dominating, there just isn't a reason to feel good about this team and the damage that management has done that cost us a shot at being a real contender.

And the odd thing about all the "like or dislike him as a person" is I've never heard a single concrete bad thing about him. With hockey players we've regularly heard about everything from drugs to domestic violence to having an affair with a teammate's spouse, being a cheap-shot artist, trying to injure others, or not showing up to practice. But about the worst concrete thing I've heard about Subban is ... he could be a little annoying I guess?

Unless there's something really bad we don't know about (in which case I'd assume someone with Montreal would 'leak' it), all the dislike of Subban just feels so petty (and arguably prejudicial - in a sport with so few minorities this perceived general dislike for no apparent reason doesn't make hockey look good).

And I agree, the worst thing about that trade is just how pointless it was. If you traded him for a young center or something you could at least make the case for it, or if you traded him for a prospect and it didn't work out you could at least argue hindsight is 20/20. But we did a 1-1 trade for the same position, for a player who is older, past his prime, and better suited to the game 5+ years ago: there's just no redeeming quality to the trade.

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1 minute ago, Graeme-1 said:

And the odd thing about all the "like or dislike him as a person" is I've never heard a single concrete bad thing about him. With hockey players we've regularly heard about everything from drugs to domestic violence to having an affair with a teammate's spouse, being a cheap-shot artist, trying to injure others, or not showing up to practice. But about the worst concrete thing I've heard about Subban is ... he could be a little annoying I guess?

Unless there's something really bad we don't know about (in which case I'd assume someone with Montreal would 'leak' it), all the dislike of Subban just feels so petty (and arguably prejudicial - in a sport with so few minorities this perceived general dislike for no apparent reason doesn't make hockey look good).

And I agree, the worst thing about that trade is just how pointless it was. If you traded him for a young center or something you could at least make the case for it, or if you traded him for a prospect and it didn't work out you could at least argue hindsight is 20/20. But we did a 1-1 trade for the same position, for a player who is older, past his prime, and better suited to the game 5+ years ago: there's just no redeeming quality to the trade.

Although to be fair, we hear a lot less of these whispers now that he's in Nashville. But a small note to opposing fans: regardless of your reasoning, it's probably best not to boo the one minority on the ice whenever he touches the puck. Even if your reasoning is 100% hockey related, the optics don't look good.

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5 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

And the odd thing about all the "like or dislike him as a person" is I've never heard a single concrete bad thing about him. With hockey players we've regularly heard about everything from drugs to domestic violence to having an affair with a teammate's spouse, being a cheap-shot artist, trying to injure others, or not showing up to practice. But about the worst concrete thing I've heard about Subban is ... he could be a little annoying I guess?

Unless there's something really bad we don't know about (in which case I'd assume someone with Montreal would 'leak' it), all the dislike of Subban just feels so petty (and arguably prejudicial - in a sport with so few minorities this perceived general dislike for no apparent reason doesn't make hockey look good).

And I agree, the worst thing about that trade is just how pointless it was. If you traded him for a young center or something you could at least make the case for it, or if you traded him for a prospect and it didn't work out you could at least argue hindsight is 20/20. But we did a 1-1 trade for the same position, for a player who is older, past his prime, and better suited to the game 5+ years ago: there's just no redeeming quality to the trade.

Molson has admitted the team was trying to trade Subban for months before it happened. He's admitted this was the team who initiated the trading process (despite Bergevin's repeated lies to us to the contrary). And why? It clearly wasn't because of a failure to perform on the ice or as you said, because we were getting a better player nor a player who addressed a different need. There was no single hockey-related reason for the deal.

It simply came down to some men (Bergevin and Therrien and maybe other members of management) who had admitted their goal was "to make him a better person" before they even met him and who didn't like his personality. They didn't like that PK was so adored by the public or that he did things that were unconventional on the ice (like carry the puck instead of play dump and chase) or that he made a donation to the Children's that put himself in the spotlight instead of leaving all the focus on the team. As The Gazette article stated, the entire thing was just petty. Therrien and Bergevin were egotistical and selfish and they just couldn't take Subban not fitting their pre-conceived notion of what a hockey player was 30 years ago. So they orchestrated trading him. It gave them satisfaction that they could show him who's boss and take him away from his public.

As I said, I just don't have patience or forgiveness for that type of behavior. Bergevin ruined a roster to feed his own ego. Hard to think he can do anything to make fans believe anything good about him now, especially after the lies and antagonistic and condescending approach with which he's treated fans and media since.

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