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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Therrien and Bergevin were egotistical and selfish and they just couldn't take Subban not fitting their pre-conceived notion of what a hockey player was 30 years ago. So they orchestrated trading him. It gave them satisfaction that they could show him who's boss and take him away from his public.

This right here is why i think Bergevin may well go down as the worst GM in habs history.  Sure, maybe he'll rebuild the team and maybe he will change that but i think its unlikely. 

Instead, what we have is a guy who clearly has some hockey knowledge. He has some ability to make good moves (vanek, danault, weise) but he ofsets them with ridiculous moves based solely on personal biases and pettiness (subban, eller, possibly galchenyuk?) 

Houle was in waaaay over his head. MB has a much better skillset to the point where the two shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence and yet they are, because he's so stubborn and spiteful that he's taken this team backwards with no actual plan in sight. 

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5 hours ago, maas_art said:

This right here is why i think Bergevin may well go down as the worst GM in habs history.  Sure, maybe he'll rebuild the team and maybe he will change that but i think its unlikely. 

So... MAYBE a very stubborn, 52-year old man will change his approach to management, build us a winner, and get over his personal bias issues and use of categories like "grit" and "heart" and "attitude" and "leadership" when considering what his team needs... I think you're right. Unlikely.

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6 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

So... MAYBE a very stubborn, 52-year old man will change his approach to management, build us a winner, and get over his personal bias issues and use of categories like "grit" and "heart" and "attitude" and "leadership" when considering what his team needs... I think you're right. Unlikely.

Now that those excuses are used up I wonder what the excuse will be next year.

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1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

Now that those excuses are used up I wonder what the excuse will be next year.

MB & Molson have turned this team into a mockery and into every example of how NOT to manage an NHL team.

Laurel & Hardy. Heckle & Jeckle. These guys are a JOKE and the rest of the NHL knows it very clearly.

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16 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

It simply came down to some men (Bergevin and Therrien and maybe other members of management) who had admitted their goal was "to make him a better person" before they even met him and who didn't like his personality. They didn't like that PK was so adored by the public or that he did things that were unconventional on the ice (like carry the puck instead of play dump and chase) or that he made a donation to the Children's that put himself in the spotlight instead of leaving all the focus on the team. As The Gazette article stated, the entire thing was just petty. Therrien and Bergevin were egotistical and selfish and they just couldn't take Subban not fitting their pre-conceived notion of what a hockey player was 30 years ago. So they orchestrated trading him. It gave them satisfaction that they could show him who's boss and take him away from his public..

I think that's probably all it was. Unfortunately this sort of attitude is way too prevalent in hockey overall, especially in Canada (is it any wonder Canadian teams are performing so poorly on average - statistically we should be seeing cup parades in Canada every 5 years)? Ironically it's non traditional markets (Nashville, Vegas, etc) who are actually bringing the most personality and fun back to hockey, and I say good riddance. Tradition and pre-conceived notions about hockey players is all well and good, but it's time to move forward. It's fine for teams like Montreal to honor the past, but our management seems to keep getting stuck there.

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36 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

I think that's probably all it was. Unfortunately this sort of attitude is way too prevalent in hockey overall, especially in Canada (is it any wonder Canadian teams are performing so poorly on average - statistically we should be seeing cup parades in Canada every 5 years)? Ironically it's non traditional markets (Nashville, Vegas, etc) who are actually bringing the most personality and fun back to hockey, and I say good riddance. Tradition and pre-conceived notions about hockey players is all well and good, but it's time to move forward. It's fine for teams like Montreal to honor the past, but our management seems to keep getting stuck there.

100% Agreed. We have to move on and evolve with today's NHL and do what it requires to produce champions.

Traditions begone.

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22 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

And the odd thing about all the "like or dislike him as a person" is I've never heard a single concrete bad thing about him. With hockey players we've regularly heard about everything from drugs to domestic violence to having an affair with a teammate's spouse, being a cheap-shot artist, trying to injure others, or not showing up to practice. But about the worst concrete thing I've heard about Subban is ... he could be a little annoying I guess?

Unless there's something really bad we don't know about (in which case I'd assume someone with Montreal would 'leak' it), all the dislike of Subban just feels so petty (and arguably prejudicial - in a sport with so few minorities this perceived general dislike for no apparent reason doesn't make hockey look good).

And I agree, the worst thing about that trade is just how pointless it was. If you traded him for a young center or something you could at least make the case for it, or if you traded him for a prospect and it didn't work out you could at least argue hindsight is 20/20. But we did a 1-1 trade for the same position, for a player who is older, past his prime, and better suited to the game 5+ years ago: there's just no redeeming quality to the trade.

The other thing I was thinking about this is Subban never publicly complained about his treatment, usage, being sent to the minors, etc as far as I know (especially early in his career when he was arguably underutilized). For all the "selfish" talk, at the end of the day at least publicly he was alaways a team player.

Compare this to everything Drouin pulled in Tampa (not saying whether this was right or wrong, especially since we don't know the exact details, but Subban could have made similar complaints at that point in his career) , yet MB had no problem giving up our top prospect + 2nd for him. Not to mention Radulov (at least he didn't cost us any assets).

But Subban had to go ...

 

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11 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

The other thing I was thinking about this is Subban never publicly complained about his treatment, usage, being sent to the minors, etc as far as I know (especially early in his career when he was arguably underutilized). For all the "selfish" talk, at the end of the day at least publicly he was alaways a team player.

Compare this to everything Drouin pulled in Tampa (not saying whether this was right or wrong, especially since we don't know the exact details, but Subban could have made similar complaints at that point in his career) , yet MB had no problem giving up our top prospect + 2nd for him. Not to mention Radulov (at least he didn't cost us any assets).

But Subban had to go ...

 

Yup and as I keep saying, the Subban trade was the beginning of the end for our team under this management. 

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13 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

The other thing I was thinking about this is Subban never publicly complained about his treatment, usage, being sent to the minors, etc as far as I know (especially early in his career when he was arguably underutilized). For all the "selfish" talk, at the end of the day at least publicly he was alaways a team player.

Compare this to everything Drouin pulled in Tampa (not saying whether this was right or wrong, especially since we don't know the exact details, but Subban could have made similar complaints at that point in his career) , yet MB had no problem giving up our top prospect + 2nd for him. Not to mention Radulov (at least he didn't cost us any assets).

But Subban had to go ...

 

And to boot, MB has been very liberal with giving out long-term contracts to players like Drouin, Gallagher, Price, Desharnais, Prust, etc. Yet he played hardball with Subban, Eller, and Galchenyuk and forced them into bridge deals. He played hardball with Subban a 2nd time even after he had proven himself on the show-me contract and won the Norris, yet MB still wouldn't give him a long-term deal until GM stepped in. There's no doubt that MB was giving out deals to players he liked or players who were Francophones or players whom he perceived as having grit and withholding them from players that he didn't like on a personal level as much. All his talk about character and attitude and so on is simply bull, with Drouin being the perfect example of a guy who was deemed to have a bad attitude and a problem in the room and yet who was handily acquired and paid without ever having played a game here. Meanwhile, Therrien is running his mouth off about how he's "going to make Subban a better man" without having met him. Based on reputation alone? Based on what? Because if you believe the stories and rumors, then Drouin is a guy who needed more help with that than Subban, and then the Habs never once mentioned a need for that with JD.

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bits and pieces. And we wonder why the habs stink

https://recrutes.ca/ch-ch-ch-changes/

 

You would think an NHL player that had played on ten different NHL teams would have been able to find another coaching position given how many contacts he would have made in his career, but Daigneault would not coach again given his mediocre results until his old high school chum Bergevin came calling four years later when he was hired to manage the Canadiens.

One wonders why Daigneault was ever hired in the first place. Underachiever in the NHL, limited coaching experience, and in that limited time, a lack of success

There is a distrubing pattern there. Defencemen seem to have the ability to get better in a hurry once they leave JJ’s nest.

Noah Juulsen, Mike Reilly, Victor Mete and Brett Lernout after his second callup all looked quite good when they first entered Montreal’s lineup. By the ends of their seasons they all looked decent, but had they improved? Juulsen by season’s end was coughing up the puck more. So, arguably, were Reilly and Mete before he got injured.

So when the final evaluation is compiled on Daigneault – he has never had team success as a coach; he has had issues evaluating and teaching young defencemen properly, and he has been far below average in coaching special teams.

He used to be in charge of the power play, and the Habs were at the bottom of the league in power-play percentage under his guidance. This year the former NHL defenceman who was never a regular on an NHL power play or penalty kill ran the team’s penalty kill, and to the surprise of no one the club had the second worst in the NHL this season with an unimpressive 74.1 % rate.

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Sure makes you wonder at the "thinking" of our GM in hiring these people. How the heck can you run an effective PP, with a 5-6 (being generous here) D-man running it? When I see Sergachev, PK, Barbario, and Andrighetto, on the PP, it make me have ever more hatred for MB. 

And we have this Bozo running the circus for the next 2-3 years minimum? 

I'm sorry, but that's exactly how I feel. 

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On 25-4-2018 at 8:07 AM, kinot-2 said:

Sure makes you wonder at the "thinking" of our GM in hiring these people. How the heck can you run an effective PP, with a 5-6 (being generous here) D-man running it? When I see Sergachev, PK, Barbario, and Andrighetto, on the PP, it make me have ever more hatred for MB. 

i was led to believe they hired Muller for the powerplay, yet there is a clear lack of creativity when in doing so, even the opposition waits for the shot set-up by either Galchenyuk, or Weber. it shows that even Gallagher, Galchenyuk, Drouin, are really no more than reasonable to good second-liners.(for now)

MB seems to only see his own reality, I believe it might even have been so that PK dressed better, and overtook his popularity. therefor giving him even more reason to rid himself of this. I said before, that he was afraid of fire, for when a player sparks, it seems to spook him. and as for attitude, there`s one in every crowd, maybe even in your own workspace. and there may be reasons to let some of them go, but then again, I don`t know the whole story.

but I do know that his EGO gets him in trouble, there are many ways to make deals in the NHL, and he shows he is (mostly) just as creative as he was when playing defense.

I hope he doesn't just try to clear the mistakes of last season, but I wish him vision of what this team really is in comparison to the top teams playing now, if he has to stay here, then I hope he can step out of his reality into the one I have, .. and start turning this into a real contender, not too hard, a little luck in the draw, and land some players you can really use.

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5 hours ago, Shutoutfan said:

Read today some facebook comments on a post about the draft lottery how people would love to have Plekanec back for about 4.5mil a year. Crazy times.

I would rather not have TP back at all.

A 4th liner on the Leafs  becomes Montreals 2 nd or 3 rd liner .

Time to let a younger player grow into the position .

But im betting he'll be back 100 % because he has character , attitude and all that intanginle stuff that you cant measure and doesn't score you goals

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

I would rather not have TP back at all.

A 4th liner on the Leafs  becomes Montreals 2 nd or 3 rd liner .

Time to let a younger player grow into the position .

But im betting he'll be back 100 % because he has character , attitude and all that intanginle stuff that you cant measure and doesn't score you goals

I think he'll be back too, just not at his current contract, unless he can get a better deal somewhere else. Who else on the Habs is a good checker? 

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I just do not want to see any of these guys anymore. I dont care if we get pleks for 50 bucks. just move on and give us some new players to potentially be excited about.

ditto for patchy. I know this GM is too pridefully invested in weber or price to move them, but its time to turn the page on the last hab core era

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

But im betting he'll be back 100 % because he has character , attitude and all that intanginle stuff that you cant measure and doesn't score you goals

And its no secret that Julien loves Pleks.  My guess is that MB will consult with CJ and CJ will say he'd like TP back if possible. Im sure they had discussions about him possibly coming back this summer before they traded him. 

 

30 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

I think he'll be back too, just not at his current contract, unless he can get a better deal somewhere else. Who else on the Habs is a good checker? 

Yeah, in theory i dont have a problem with TP at $2m or less for a 1 year deal. I think he'd be better than DLR in that position.  But the only way i bring him back is if we have 3 guys playing ahead of him. Danault is one but we need a bonefide #1 and a true #2.  So if we sign JT and statsny or something then sure, if you have the money bring back TP.   Tavares - Statsny - Danault - Plekanec?  Sign me up.  But like Regis i worry that it will be   Statsny - Plekanec - Danault DLR or something horrible like that.

 

 

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52 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

. Who else on the Habs is a good checker? 

Teach someone . They keep bringing back older players at the end of their career , never giving  a young guy a chance , then when the old guy is done they don't have a replacement . But he'll be back to play his 1ooo game with the Habs , something Markov wasn't allowed to do

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

Teach someone . They keep bringing back older players at the end of their career , never giving  a young guy a chance , then when the old guy is done they don't have a replacement . But he'll be back to play his 1ooo game with the Habs , something Markov wasn't allowed to do

Ya know, when Doug Jarvis was drafted out of Peterborough, his last year of junior he had 133 PTs. in 69 games. and he was made into checker. When Carbonneau was drafted he had 182 PTs. in 72 games in his last year, and he was made into a checker. Both were very good. Now, who would be our next 3rd line checker from our current roster, or our prospects to replace TP? 

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2 hours ago, jeff33 said:

I just do not want to see any of these guys anymore. I dont care if we get pleks for 50 bucks. just move on and give us some new players to potentially be excited about.

ditto for patchy

unless they do decide, or find a way to get Tavaris, then I would like for him to stay, otherwise I`m inclined to agree.

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I feel it would be a big mistake bringing Plekanec back. We have enough older, under-performing dinosaurs on this team as it is. Mind you with this GM, his cronyism, his own incompetence along with his side-kick owner, I doubt that this team will EVER be modernized to an NHL-Ready-to-win-the-Cup caliber one anytime soon.

I have absolutely no faith in this GM's abilities nor the owner in doing what's right for our team, and we will be stuck in mediocrity for a long time to come unless things change drastically. Including the political attitude of language before skill.

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