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18 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I would disagree with that. Everything has a price tag, but money is just one factor... I don't know where everyone here works and lives, but say someone offered you a 10% raise to move to a city somewhere else in North America where you had no friends or family and whereby you had to move your kids to a new school and make them start their lives over. Let's say you really enjoy the lifestyle afforded you by living in a city like Vancouver or Montreal and then someone offered you 10% more to live in Phoenix or Raleigh. Say you had spent your entire life living in the Southern States and then someone offered you more money to move to the cold in Edmonton or Minnesota. Say you were 28 or 30 years old and potentially signing a 7 year deal to take you through your remaining peak years... would you go somewhere you had no chance of winning a Cup just to get a bit more money? I likely wouldn't move in a lot of those situations, and sure, everyone is different and sure for some people, money is more important. But to me, the difference in money would have to be really really significant to give up you preferred choice of location or a chance at winning the ultimate prize that you worked your whole life to achieve.

Your chances of winning the cup in Montreal or Vancouver are slim or none so no matter where you go you're either better off or in the same boat except you're making more money. Players look for the best chance they have to win to get their names on the cup.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

I would disagree with that. Everything has a price tag, but money is just one factor... I don't know where everyone here works and lives, but say someone offered you a 10% raise to move to a city somewhere else in North America where you had no friends or family and whereby you had to move your kids to a new school and make them start their lives over. Let's say you really enjoy the lifestyle afforded you by living in a city like Vancouver or Montreal and then someone offered you 10% more to live in Phoenix or Raleigh. Say you had spent your entire life living in the Southern States and then someone offered you more money to move to the cold in Edmonton or Minnesota. Say you were 28 or 30 years old and potentially signing a 7 year deal to take you through your remaining peak years... would you go somewhere you had no chance of winning a Cup just to get a bit more money? I likely wouldn't move in a lot of those situations, and sure, everyone is different and sure for some people, money is more important. But to me, the difference in money would have to be really really significant to give up you preferred choice of location or a chance at winning the ultimate prize that you worked your whole life to achieve.

Agreed. The other thing that 'normal folks' forget is that we're talking about ridiculous amounts of money.    4th line grinders make as much money in 1 nhl season as the average Canadian will make in 15-20 years.  Sure, human nature means most people will still want more, more, more - but from a finanacial standpoint any player who is likely to play even a handful of years in the NHL will live very very well.  The 'other' factors tend to play a lot more into decisions than most people give them credit for.  I worked a lot with the flames & the flames players when i was in calgary. Certainly, climate, coaching, the guys you're playing with - those are all important but most of these guys were grateful to come to the rink each day and  I would say that the idea of winning with the guys around them trumped just about any other factor (ie money) since most of those were already taken care of.  
 

 

40 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Your chances of winning the cup in Montreal or Vancouver are slim or none so no matter where you go you're either better off or in the same boat except you're making more money. Players look for the best chance they have to win to get their names on the cup.

Well but remember its not who will win the cup, its what team a particular player thinks has the best chance of winning.  A guy like Tavares may see Price as the best goalie in the world and Weber as one of the top defensmen etc.    We have players who can be sold as high end.   So while you can certainly make a strong case that we arent contenders, the right salesperson could sell this team to a top UFA.  Especially if there was a plan outlined.  For example, when MB's team talks to Tavares you say how you're also going to sign a 2nd line centre and how you will put Pacioretty on one wing and Zadina on the other. How you are trying to trade for a top pairing dman etc etc.  Its MB's job to 'sell the sizzle.'  Will Tavares or other UFA buy it? I dunno but a team's actual chances are far less important than making the player think highly of their chances. 

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

I would disagree with that. Everything has a price tag, but money is just one factor... I don't know where everyone here works and lives, but say someone offered you a 10% raise to move to a city somewhere else in North America where you had no friends or family and whereby you had to move your kids to a new school and make them start their lives over. Let's say you really enjoy the lifestyle afforded you by living in a city like Vancouver or Montreal and then someone offered you 10% more to live in Phoenix or Raleigh. Say you had spent your entire life living in the Southern States and then someone offered you more money to move to the cold in Edmonton or Minnesota. Say you were 28 or 30 years old and potentially signing a 7 year deal to take you through your remaining peak years... would you go somewhere you had no chance of winning a Cup just to get a bit more money? I likely wouldn't move in a lot of those situations, and sure, everyone is different and sure for some people, money is more important. But to me, the difference in money would have to be really really significant to give up you preferred choice of location or a chance at winning the ultimate prize that you worked your whole life to achieve.

Yeah, money is one factor of the four I listed.  For most players its the primary factor.  10% for an average guy may be $10k.  10% for an average NHL'r may be $200k.  On a 3 year deal, that's $600k.  For guys that know their careers are short and their skillsets limited, it matters.  

I remember when Streit went UFA to the Islanders.  He loved Montreal and wanted to stay but Montreal couldn't pay him what the Islanders did.  Montreal management's words to Streit were effectively, do it for your family (sign the deal with the Islanders if they're going to give you that much money and term).  And sure enough he went to the Islanders primarily because they offered him top dollar.  

On the flip side you have guys like Hossa who want to win the Cup for the sake of winning the Cup (and not to getting a higher contract in the future), and guys like Fisher who want to live in Nashville due to family reasons.

So there is a spectrum, but in my experience most of these guys follow the money primarily, and most of them are getting better at managing their money as well.

 

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14 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

Well but remember its not who will win the cup, its what team a particular player thinks has the best chance of winning.  A guy like Tavares may see Price as the best goalie in the world and Weber as one of the top defensmen etc.    We have players who can be sold as high end.   So while you can certainly make a strong case that we arent contenders, the right salesperson could sell this team to a top UFA.  Especially if there was a plan outlined.  For example, when MB's team talks to Tavares you say how you're also going to sign a 2nd line centre and how you will put Pacioretty on one wing and Zadina on the other. How you are trying to trade for a top pairing dman etc etc.  Its MB's job to 'sell the sizzle.'  Will Tavares or other UFA buy it? I dunno but a team's actual chances are far less important than making the player think highly of their chances. 

MB is gonna have a real hard time signing top free agents when he has to explain why he's in year seven of his five year plan and the Habs are at the bottom of the league. Players and their agents aren't stupid.

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38 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Players and their agents aren't stupid.

See people say this every year and every year guys sign with teams like Arizona and the like.    

We shall see what happens but i dont think MB will have trouble signing guys. The problem is that we sign the wrong guys.  

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

See people say this every year and every year guys sign with teams like Arizona and the like.    

We shall see what happens but i dont think MB will have trouble signing guys. The problem is that we sign the wrong guys.  

Becuse the right guys don't wanna come.

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7 hours ago, maas_art said:

  We shall see what happens but i dont think MB will have trouble signing guys. The problem is that we sign the wrong guys.  

lol......Yup. ALl the guys who cant find jobs come to the Habs

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8 hours ago, maas_art said:

We shall see what happens but i dont think MB will have trouble signing guys. The problem is that we sign the wrong guys.  

I can get on board with this.  Bergevin seems to be a real personable guy, and I don't doubt that he could make a pretty good case to a UFA.  It seems to me that we've actually had a fair bit of success signing guys over from Europe and getting some of the players that we've gone after, the problem as you said is just that we've often chased the wrong ones.

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3 hours ago, habs1952 said:

Becuse the right guys don't wanna come.

 

3 hours ago, Regis22 said:

lol......Yup. ALl the guys who cant find jobs come to the Habs

Who are all these great UFAs we couldnt sign though?  Last year there were very little in the way of quality players available.  Bergevin completely botched Radulov and Markov but it wasnt because either didnt want to play for the habs (maybe they didnt want to play for him though ;) ) With Petry and Weber we had no need for Shattenkirk.  Alzner was the top defensive UFA after him.  Several sites (the hockey news, tsn) said we got him at a "bargain." Sure it worked out horrifically (as many predicted) but you cant say we didnt land one of the top UFA - its just that he was terrible.

The year before MB landed one of the the biggest UFAs in Radulov. lucic, erikson, okposo were all guys we apparently werent interested in (thankfully) not the other way around.

 

So again, while i do think MB has done a terrible job in a lot or respects I dont think he's had trouble landing UFAs..he's just been targeting the wrong guys.  And you dont build a team via UFA. you make tweaks that way but we've had gaping holes for 6 years. UFAs rarely (unless its a guy like Tavares, or Chara when he went UFA) help fill the really big ones. 

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MB's record in the UFA market is the least of his problems. His biggest issue in the past has been his hiring practice and his inability to fill gapping holes in the roster because you know,,,,,,,,, trades are hard to make.

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https://ca.yahoo.com/sports/news/cutting-bait-top-buyout-candidates-canadas-nhl-teams-125200513.html

The NHL’s buyout period begins on Friday, giving teams a way out from underneath some of the burdensome contracts that GMs have been known to generously dole out from time to time.

From June 15-30, clubs can choose to essentially pay a player not to play for them

 

Montreal Canadiens — Karl Alzner

This would be a long, costly one for the Habs — and might not even really be feasible this soon into Alzner’s egregious 5-year, $23-plus-million deal — but with an immense amount of cap space tied up in Shea Weber and Carey Price for the next eight (!!) years, Marc Bergevin and Co. might just have to take their licks on this one if they want to be in on any major free agents or trade options for the next half-decade or so.

Alzner’s contract is a hefty one, a brutal overpay for an average-at-best blueliner, but the Canadiens can drop the cap hit down to an average of $1.6 million for the next eight seasons from the $4.6 million he’s owed in each of the next four if they choose the buyout route.

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9 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Now that Galchenyuk has been traded, is anyone able to run down how many of MB's draft picks have played more than 20 NHL games and are playing with the Montreal Canadiens?

All we can get for him is DOMI???

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4 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Now that Galchenyuk has been traded, is anyone able to run down how many of MB's draft picks have played more than 20 NHL games and are playing with the Montreal Canadiens?

Juulsen, Mete, Scherbak, Lernout, McCarron, Lehkonen, De La Rose, Hudon... most of those are still in double digit games played and most of them are role players and likely won't be more. I don't expect McCarron to last long here. I'm not sure Lernout or DLR are NHLers in the long run. Juulsen and Scherbak are still too early on to pronounce on.

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Habs have traded Subban, Sergachev, Eller, and now Galchenyuk. Four of their best players. They've replaced them with Weber, Shaw, Drouin, and Domi. I would undo each and every one of those 5 trades that led to this and it's not even close. Bergevin might just be the worst GM in the league, and that wouldn't be close if it weren't for Chiarelli.

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39 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

And its not over yet

Wait until JULY 1 when they announce the signing of Plekanec

Most likely things the Habs will do:

- re-sign Plekanec

- offer Jack Johnson a big contract

- fail to get John Tavares and instead overpay for another 3rd line center whom they will claim can be a top 6 player

- trade Pacioretty for another underwhelming return

(and yes, somewhere two or three months ago, I wrote that I thought it was likely Bergevin was going to trade Galchenyuk this summer and we were all going to hate the return)

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5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Most likely things the Habs will do:

- re-sign Plekanec

- offer Jack Johnson a big contract

- fail to get John Tavares and instead overpay for another 3rd line center whom they will claim can be a top 6 player

- trade Pacioretty for another underwhelming return

Yes

Maybe

YES.

probably or either sign him long term 8 yrs for $10 million / yr

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19 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Juulsen, Mete, Scherbak, Lernout, McCarron, Lehkonen, De La Rose, Hudon... most of those are still in double digit games played and most of them are role players and likely won't be more. I don't expect McCarron to last long here. I'm not sure Lernout or DLR are NHLers in the long run. Juulsen and Scherbak are still too early on to pronounce on.

Thank you, Ted. Upon first glance, this seems like damn poor return for 6 years of drafting... Are other teams THIS bad at drafting players, developing them, and keep them with the big club after a few years of development?

Juulsen and Mate I HOPE can be difference makers at the NHL level. Lehkonen seems like a legitimate NHLer. Other than that... that's a whole pile of "whatever" players.

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13 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Yep. I read this yesterday. Spot on. Bergevin has clearly indicated he's not good at managing a hockey team in today's NHL. Molson is responsible now.

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12 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Galchenyuk, Sergachev, and Subban or Domi, Drouin, and Weber? Without a doubt I think most teams would take Galchenyuk, Sergachev, and Subban.

Not to mention Eller over Shaw.

The point has been made repeatedly that Bergevin inherited a team with Price, Subban, and Pacioretty in their prime, a #3 overall pick, Brendan Gallagher walking into the league ready to play, a still-useful Markov and Plekanec, etc. and managed to bungle everything up. A lot of it had to do with wasting the core's prime on a talentless coach like Michel Therrien. A lot of it had to do with failing to develop prospects and trading away skill for grit.

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18 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Not to mention Eller over Shaw.

The point has been made repeatedly that Bergevin inherited a team with Price, Subban, and Pacioretty in their prime, a #3 overall pick, Brendan Gallagher walking into the league ready to play, a still-useful Markov and Plekanec, etc. and managed to bungle everything up. A lot of it had to do with wasting the core's prime on a talentless coach like Michel Therrien. A lot of it had to do with failing to develop prospects and trading away skill for grit.

He's had good rentals (like Vanek) and he's had some good tinkering moves (Weise, Byron, Niemi)  but to me there's only been a couple of really strong transactions he's made:   getting Danault for two expiring UFA and getting Petry for picks.   

Thats pretty pitiful for 6 years.  Especially when you consider how many bad moves there have been.   

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