Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

The Draft


maas_art
 Share

Recommended Posts

Long time, no post. Feels bad but by far most likely outcome was to move down and instead the Habs actually move up. Not half bad. Also wouldn't be stunned if the Habs took Kotkaniemi who's been moving up draft boards some have him as high at 5. Either way, it was a positive night. At this point it feels like whichever teenager we draft is more relevant to Bergevin's successor but who knows. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Too bad we didn't luck out but it's still a win, I expected us to drop and we're actually getting a Top 3 pick.

I wouldn't trade down unless the offer is huge, so I'd go BPA in Zadina or Tkachuk, assuming both Dahlin and Svechnikov are gone.

Moving Pacioretty at the draft and getting another first rounder+ to draft a center could be another enticing option but we probably need him to acquire a guy who can move the puck and play big minutes with Weber.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Goodbye to Dahlin. :6351: But unbelievable lottery luck by Carolina!

Paper logic says Zadina will be drafted.  But I have a bad feeling MB will trade down for Tkachuk based on father "pedigree" and all the reputation nonsense.  :4224:

No chance Carolina will pass up on Svechnikov or do a trade/swap with Montreal.

3rd overall pick 6 years ago, and same again 6 years later.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Since they looked pretty good together at the World Juniors, maybe the Hurricanes are interested in having both Zadina and Necas on their team and pass on Svechnikov for us to draft. Otherwise we could try to swing a deal involving Pacioretty and acquire Necas ourselves.

Seeing as the Panthers have the 15th pick, a trade involving Pacioretty might also give us a chance to draft a center like Veleno or even Hayton (unlikely). Kotkaniemi would be great but I don't think we can make it work without trading down, which would be a mistake IMO.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Filip Zadina QMJHL \- Halifax Mooseheads: LW, 6'1, 192lbs.

 

Zadina is one of the players from this draft that I can say with confidence he'll be in the NHL in 2019, this guy is beyond NHL ready. If his skating is just a lagging part of his game and he catches up with other players foot speed, he'll be the best forward coming out of this draft. He has the best shot and puck possession among all other players, his ability to stop up, deke, and shoot is unreal. I would be very ok with grabbing him at #3.

 

Comparables: Artemi Panarin, Brock Boeser.

 

Finding comparables for Zadina was a little difficult because he's a pretty unique player. Usually the problem for wingers with hands and a great shot is their hockey iq, but Zadina is a smart player who's only real weakness is speed. I find he makes plays and space like Panarin, and when it comes time to shoot he seems to be able to get a shot off with next to no room, similar to Brock Boeser.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, ChiLla said:

Since they looked pretty good together at the World Juniors, maybe the Hurricanes are interested in having both Zadina and Necas on their team and pass on Svechnikov for us to draft. Otherwise we could try to swing a deal involving Pacioretty and acquire Necas ourselves.

I like this idea, max for necas and a dman? Carolina owner is reportedly looking to make big moves and max is a pretty big name

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I don't want to scare anybody, but the Habs could go off the board at 3 and select Joe Veleno

Veleno is projected between picks 10-20. Maybe a team will reach for him at 7 or 8, but not at 3. If they want Veleno, they'll trade back. Kotkaniemi is projected as a 5-10 pick, so he's more likely as a reach at 3 if they're aiming for a center.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Veleno is projected between picks 10-20. Maybe a team will reach for him at 7 or 8, but not at 3. If they want Veleno, they'll trade back. Kotkaniemi is projected as a 5-10 pick, so he's more likely as a reach at 3 if they're aiming for a center.

Projections do not mean a thing. Case in point, all 30 teams passed on Patrice Bergeron before he was taken in the 2nd round by Boston.  On a re draft of the 2003 class, I would think Bergeron would be a 1st rounder.  In fact I would've gladly taken him over Andrei Kostitsyn at 10.  Veleno is the 200 foot, 2 way centre we're missing.  he's aggressive on the PK, fore check and back check.  I've said all along however, MTL should move Patches to the Isles for both their 1st rounders to get Veleno.  I think we need to stock pile prospect depth in this draft to build a contender.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Projections do not mean a thing. Case in point, all 30 teams passed on Patrice Bergeron before he was taken in the 2nd round by Boston.  On a re draft of the 2003 class, I would think Bergeron would be a 1st rounder.  In fact I would've gladly taken him over Andrei Kostitsyn at 10.  Veleno is the 200 foot, 2 way centre we're missing.  he's aggressive on the PK, fore check and back check.  I've said all along however, MTL should move Patches to the Isles for both their 1st rounders to get Veleno.  I think we need to stock pile prospect depth in this draft to build a contender.

Yeah, but projections in the moment still matter. If you wait 15 years and look back at this year's draft class, the "projections" (i.e. hindsight) will be different too. That doesn't mean the projections now don't matter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Projections do not mean a thing. Case in point, all 30 teams passed on Patrice Bergeron before he was taken in the 2nd round by Boston.  On a re draft of the 2003 class, I would think Bergeron would be a 1st rounder.  In fact I would've gladly taken him over Andrei Kostitsyn at 10.  Veleno is the 200 foot, 2 way centre we're missing.  he's aggressive on the PK, fore check and back check.  I've said all along however, MTL should move Patches to the Isles for both their 1st rounders to get Veleno.  I think we need to stock pile prospect depth in this draft to build a contender.

 

6 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Yeah, but projections in the moment still matter. If you wait 15 years and look back at this year's draft class, the "projections" (i.e. hindsight) will be different too. That doesn't mean the projections now don't matter.

Agreed that projections don't mean the players will end up being the best, but you're still taking a bigger gamble going against what dozens of scouts think. More often than not, the Crosby or Toews or Hedman pick at the top of the draft is going to be better than the guy projected to go #20 or #40. That's why higher percentages of picks in the top 10 make the NHL and become stars than lower picks. The success rate of picks goes way down after you get out of the top 10-20 choices. So there will always be exceptions, but mostly, projections means your odds of hitting are higher. Put another way, let's say I give you two ways of winning a million dollars. You can flip a coin and if it's heads, I give you the money or you can roll a die and if it's a 6, I give you the money. Now maybe just maybe the coin flips tails and the die lands on 6, but that doesn't mean the odds of the die turning out were higher nor that they'll be higher in the future. I'd still take the guy that has the 50% chance of being a superstar over the guy with a 17% chance.

And even if your scouts did think Veleno was going to be the best player in the draft, you'd still have to weigh your odds of getting him lower down. Is it a gamble? Sure. But if you think no one else in the top 10 believes in Veleno the way you do, then maybe you can trade #3 for a pick in the 8-10 range, still get your guy, and also get another asset... I'm not saying Veleno won't be good nor that the Habs won't reach for him, but with tons of scouts leaning towards Svechnikov and Zadina, I think there's a higher chance those two guys have more value and I think there's a decent chance Veleno is still available if you trade back. Something to consider...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎2018‎-‎04‎-‎30 at 8:11 AM, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Projections do not mean a thing. Case in point, all 30 teams passed on Patrice Bergeron before he was taken in the 2nd round by Boston.  On a re draft of the 2003 class, I would think Bergeron would be a 1st rounder.  In fact I would've gladly taken him over Andrei Kostitsyn at 10.  Veleno is the 200 foot, 2 way centre we're missing.  he's aggressive on the PK, fore check and back check.  I've said all along however, MTL should move Patches to the Isles for both their 1st rounders to get Veleno.  I think we need to stock pile prospect depth in this draft to build a contender.

I would certainly pass on Veleno. I watched him when they played the Cape in the playoffs. All three games on the island. He actually played on the wing. He was hardly aggressive. He actually shyed away from the play and looked more of a perimeter player. I got to watch Dubois when he played with the eagles, before he was traded last season Veleno is not even close to Dubois. Like great players, when Dubois had the puck the play seemed to slow down. Veleno looked like all the other top players. . He is also an older player having turned 18 in January.  I would be more inclined to go after Jesperi Kotkaniemi, still only 17 till july and stock rising all the time much like Dubois. That is if your gambling on a center. My pick at 3 wold be Svech or Zadina, which ever is available

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 5/1/2018 at 11:13 PM, caperns61 said:

I would certainly pass on Veleno. I watched him when they played the Cape in the playoffs. All three games on the island. He actually played on the wing. He was hardly aggressive. He actually shyed away from the play and looked more of a perimeter player. I got to watch Dubois when he played with the eagles, before he was traded last season Veleno is not even close to Dubois. Like great players, when Dubois had the puck the play seemed to slow down. Veleno looked like all the other top players. . He is also an older player having turned 18 in January.  I would be more inclined to go after Jesperi Kotkaniemi, still only 17 till july and stock rising all the time much like Dubois. That is if your gambling on a center. My pick at 3 wold be Svech or Zadina, which ever is available

I watched Joe Veleno the entire time he was in Saint John and the numbers don't tell the entire story.  Veleno is a strong skater, solid, 2-way play-making centre a great deal of his assists are primary ones.  Joe Veleno is actually not a gamble at all.  He's the most NHL ready centre available.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I watched Joe Veleno the entire time he was in Saint John and the numbers don't tell the entire story.  Veleno is a strong skater, solid, 2-way play-making centre a great deal of his assists are primary ones.  Joe Veleno is actually not a gamble at all.  He's the most NHL ready centre available.

I could be wrong but i think what he meant by "gamble" is that at 3rd overall you take the guy most likely to be an impact player.  Thats not to say that Veleno isnt going to be a great player but aside from guys like Bergeron and Kopitar there are very very few two way playmaking centres that are true first liners.  Most 2 way centres tap out at 2nd line C - which is absolutely nothing to sneeze at but brings up the philosophical question: is drafting a #2c better than drafting a #1RW  if you have the 3rd overall pick. 

I think there's still a possibility you trade down, draft Veleno or Kotkaniemi and snag a top tier prospect in the process but Its a tricky move to pull off properly and i have no faith in MB to do it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, maas_art said:

I could be wrong but i think what he meant by "gamble" is that at 3rd overall you take the guy most likely to be an impact player.  Thats not to say that Veleno isnt going to be a great player but aside from guys like Bergeron and Kopitar there are very very few two way playmaking centres that are true first liners.  Most 2 way centres tap out at 2nd line C - which is absolutely nothing to sneeze at but brings up the philosophical question: is drafting a #2c better than drafting a #1RW  if you have the 3rd overall pick. 

I think there's still a possibility you trade down, draft Veleno or Kotkaniemi and snag a top tier prospect in the process but Its a tricky move to pull off properly and i have no faith in MB to do it. 

I think if you're going to trade down, you ideally don't want to go below 5 or 8 depending on the type of player you're aiming to get and who you're willing to accept as a pick. Dahlin and Svechnikov seem to be consensus 1-2. So if you sit at 3, you know you have your choice of Zadina or Kotkaniemi (or maybe Tkachuk or Hughes or Boqvist but ideally one of the first two). If you think there's not much to separate Zadina, Kotkaniemi, and Tkachuk, then dropping to 5 is a safe move, albeit I'm not sure Ottawa or Arizona would want to give up a young asset to move up. If you can accept Hughes or Boqvist or one of Bouchard/Dobson too, then you can go down to 7, 8, or 9. Past that, the prospect pool is dropping off a bit, so I think moving with the Isles is a pretty risky move, for example. Even if you get two centers like Veleno/Hayton or Veleno/Kupari to deal #3 for #'s 11 and 12, I'd rather have the impact player at #3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think if you're going to trade down, you ideally don't want to go below 5 or 8 depending on the type of player you're aiming to get and who you're willing to accept as a pick. Dahlin and Svechnikov seem to be consensus 1-2. So if you sit at 3, you know you have your choice of Zadina or Kotkaniemi (or maybe Tkachuk or Hughes or Boqvist but ideally one of the first two). If you think there's not much to separate Zadina, Kotkaniemi, and Tkachuk, then dropping to 5 is a safe move, albeit I'm not sure Ottawa or Arizona would want to give up a young asset to move up. If you can accept Hughes or Boqvist or one of Bouchard/Dobson too, then you can go down to 7, 8, or 9. Past that, the prospect pool is dropping off a bit, so I think moving with the Isles is a pretty risky move, for example. Even if you get two centers like Veleno/Hayton or Veleno/Kupari to deal #3 for #'s 11 and 12, I'd rather have the impact player at #3.

Yeah agreed.  The other thing is, even if you believed your scouts 100% and they said one of those guys will be a true #1, you have to believe that neither will be truly an NHL ready #1C for several years.   By all accounts Svechnikov and Zadina could easily be in our lineup in October.  For a guy like Marc Bergevin (whose job is safe only probably 'for now") that has to be a huge factor. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I watched Joe Veleno the entire time he was in Saint John and the numbers don't tell the entire story.  Veleno is a strong skater, solid, 2-way play-making centre a great deal of his assists are primary ones.  Joe Veleno is actually not a gamble at all.  He's the most NHL ready centre available.

Hey, u may be right. Keep in mind there was not a lot to compare him with in St Johns as they had worst team in the league. So he probably looked a lot better on most nights

And I am no scout.  But I watched all 3 games against Drummondville...He played on the wing and never really did anything exceptional. He looks like a good solid two way play. Certainly not what we need at the number 3 spot.  We need an elite talent . When it comes to the top 1 to 5 most scouts are usually close on the players. Anything later can be a crap shoot. Now don't get me wrong you can still grab a player later in round one who ends up being better. But at a much higher risk.

Personally as I stated above at number 3 I would take svech/zadina.

Now if we were to yake a gamble and trade our number 3, I would go after Islanders 11 and 12, then maybe we would be lucky enough to grab Kotkan and Veleno  with Poeling already surely you can get at least two good centers out of those 3.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I probably wouldnt trade 3rd overall if i was GM.  I think one of those guys (Schvenikov or Zadina, whichever we end up getting) is going to be a top line player for us for a while.


What I *would* do though is look at trading for a top 15 pick and seeing if i couldnt land a guy like Veleno or Kotkaniemi with that pick. Im sure some of the top ranked centres will be gone but I suspect at least one will still be available. 

The one that jumps out at me is 10th overall.  Currently held by edmonton.  Edmonton is a team in need of a shakeup, a team that has had some very bad drafting lately.  What if we offered Pacioretty for 10th overall + Nurse + maybe another prospect?    

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, maas_art said:

The one that jumps out at me is 10th overall.  Currently held by edmonton.  Edmonton is a team in need of a shakeup, a team that has had some very bad drafting lately.  What if we offered Pacioretty for 10th overall + Nurse + maybe another prospect?    

I think... you may be seeking too much from Edmonton for Pacioretty. I think you could maybe ask for 10th overall + another prospect/pick. I'm not sure you'd wriggle the 10th overall AND Nurse away from them with Pacioretty.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I think... you may be seeking too much from Edmonton for Pacioretty. I think you could maybe ask for 10th overall + another prospect/pick. I'm not sure you'd wriggle the 10th overall AND Nurse away from them with Pacioretty.

Maybe.  But remember what  Detroit got for Tatar, what Colorado got for Duchene and even what buffalo got for Kane as a short term rental. 

People on this board like to dump on Pacioretty but many GMs would look at him as a perennial 30+ goal scorer whose best centre while he racked up all those goals was David Desharnais. You put him next to McDavid of Draisatil or RNH and I bet he's a 40 goal scorer easily

Plus, they do have Chiarelli so... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Maybe.  But remember what  Detroit got for Tatar, what Colorado got for Duchene and even what buffalo got for Kane as a short term rental. 

People on this board like to dump on Pacioretty but many GMs would look at him as a perennial 30+ goal scorer whose best centre while he racked up all those goals was David Desharnais. You put him next to McDavid of Draisatil or RNH and I bet he's a 40 goal scorer easily

Plus, they do have Chiarelli so... 

Detroit received a first rounder (2018), a second rounder (2019), and a third rounder (2021) from Vegas. I do not believe that's even close in value to Edmonton's first rounder (2018), Nurse, and a prospect. And yes, Max is worth more than Tatar, but I think we need to "bridge the gap" here. Buffalo received a first rounder (2019), a fourth rounder (2019), and Daniel O'Regan from San Jose. I still don't think this compares in value to Edmonton's first rounder (2018), Nurse, and a prospect.

I think many GMs would, indeed, view Max as a consistent 30-goal man. However, I just don't see us getting a top-10 pick and a top-4 LD with him. Prove me wrong, MB... Prove me wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...