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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

A left winger who can play center! No one wants a right winger who can play center... that would be stupid! I'm sure it was implied in your statement, obviously! 

Any winger. Surely, with all the picks he has, he can pick one winger he can turn into a centre. The odds would be in his favor.  If he fails he can trade the wingers for some more 6th and 7th D-men. You can never have enough D-men.

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2 hours ago, habsisme said:

A left winger who can play center! No one wants a right winger who can play center... that would be stupid! I'm sure it was implied in your statement, obviously! 

Funnily enough Oliver Wahlstrom is a guy who is a natural RW but has had a number of scouts say he should look pretty good at centre... 

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Been watching some game film and reading scouting reports on the top 8-10 players... some thoughts:

- Dahlin clearly number 1 all across the board, with comparisons ranging from Lidstrom to Niedermayer to Karlsson to Subban. All good.

- The next 3 guys up are the wingers: Tkachuk, Svechnikov, and Zadina. People basically compare Tkachuk to his father and brother in terms of playing style. Also some comparisons to Lucic, albeit he seems to be less of an agitator than all three of those comparisons and a bit more offensively gifted. He's a prototypical power forward. Zadina seems to have drawn comparisons to players like Mark Stone, Filip Forsberg, Petr Bondra, etc. Great hands, world-class shot and release, decent skater, needs some work on his decision-making and defence (which when I read the descriptions, made him sound eerily similar to Galchenyuk to me!). I also see a little bit of pre-injury Richard Zednik in him. Svechnikov is the highest-ranked North American skater and seems to have the best scouting reports, particularly with respect to skating and puck control. He's projected as a player like Marian Hossa, Patrick Laine, a poor man's Alex Ovechkin, or a Nikita Kucherov. Seems to have the slight edge on the other two right now.

- The group of 4 D men sitting behind this is probably the most intriguing, which is not to say another forward won't sneak into the top 8. But I'm talking about Hughes, Bouchard, Dobson, and Boqvist. Boqvist was ranked #5 by a lot of scouts all season long but has dropped off a bit towards the end. He's had a tougher time finding a spot in the adult game this year, but he's also a younger player for this draft year. Great hands, dynamic skater, and excellent right-handed shot. A little smaller, lacking a bit defensively, and with some questions as to how his game will translate onto the smaller North American ice surface. Hughes really impressed me on film. He's the older brother of projected 2019 #1 overall pick Jack Hughes but he's a good player in his own right. A lot of the same deficiencies as Boqvist in being a smaller, less physical guy with the need to work on his defensive game. But just a magician with the way he skates with the puck and makes cuts. Better vision and playmaking than Boqvist by a nose IMO, but not as hard or accurate a snipe. He's a lefty as well, FWIW. Comparisons here have included Brian Rafalski, Dan Boyle, Gostisbehere, and Brian Leetch... from what I've seen, he's got the skill to be a top-tier NHL defenceman, but he needs some work and some improvement defensively. Bouchard is probably the lowest risk of the 4 guys, if you ask me. He's got decent size, he's got a heavy shot, and he shows good smarts. Knows when to jump into the rush. Right-handed shot. His coach Dale Hunter compared him to John Carlson. Others have said Brent Seabrook. Projects as a solid #2 defenceman, with maybe a slightly lower ceiling than the others because he's not as dynamic with the puck but with less risk that he'll simply be a PP specialist because he's better defensively and has better size. The last guy is Dobson. Like Boqvist and Bouchard, he's a righty. His stock has risen over the year and he's been scouted as a dependable two-way D man with offensive upside. Above average at a lot of things but doesn't really blow you away with any one particular skill. A lot of scouting reports comparing him to Alex Pietrangelo, although he needs to grow into his frame a bit more upper-body wise. His skating motion right now reminds me a bit of Danny DeKeyser, and I don't mean that as a complement. He's one of those players who could be an all-around solid top-pairing D man, or he could be a #4 guy like a DeKeyser or a Johnny Boychuk. He looked the best on paper out of the four but watching him for myself, I wasn't as impressed as the scouting reports led me to believe he would be. I think a lot of that comes down to skating, which is just so important to playing in the NHL.

- Oliver Wahlstrom is the other player who's crept up into the top 6-8 discussion. Listed in some places as a center, he's been moved back and forth from there and wing and has mainly played wing this season. Good shot, good center of gravity, comparisons to a guy like Brock Boeser.

I reserve the right to change this at any time, but based on my most recent look into these prospects, I'd rank them in order of how I'd draft them

1. Dahlin

2. Svechnikov

3. Zadina

4. Tkachuk

5. Hughes

6. Bouchard

7. Boqvist

8. Dobson

9. Wahlstrom

 

Would like to see a bit more of Boqvist and Dobson though, as I'm not sure if there's tape I haven't seen that makes these guys look more like what the scouts have said...

 

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30 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Been watching some game film and reading scouting reports on the top 8-10 players... some thoughts:

- Dahlin clearly number 1 all across the board, with comparisons ranging from Lidstrom to Niedermayer to Karlsson to Subban. All good.

- The next 3 guys up are the wingers: Tkachuk, Svechnikov, and Zadina. People basically compare Tkachuk to his father and brother in terms of playing style. Also some comparisons to Lucic, albeit he seems to be less of an agitator than all three of those comparisons and a bit more offensively gifted. He's a prototypical power forward. Zadina seems to have drawn comparisons to players like Mark Stone, Filip Forsberg, Petr Bondra, etc. Great hands, world-class shot and release, decent skater, needs some work on his decision-making and defence (which when I read the descriptions, made him sound eerily similar to Galchenyuk to me!). I also see a little bit of pre-injury Richard Zednik in him. Svechnikov is the highest-ranked North American skater and seems to have the best scouting reports, particularly with respect to skating and puck control. He's projected as a player like Marian Hossa, Patrick Laine, a poor man's Alex Ovechkin, or a Nikita Kucherov. Seems to have the slight edge on the other two right now.

- The group of 4 D men sitting behind this is probably the most intriguing, which is not to say another forward won't sneak into the top 8. But I'm talking about Hughes, Bouchard, Dobson, and Boqvist. Boqvist was ranked #5 by a lot of scouts all season long but has dropped off a bit towards the end. He's had a tougher time finding a spot in the adult game this year, but he's also a younger player for this draft year. Great hands, dynamic skater, and excellent right-handed shot. A little smaller, lacking a bit defensively, and with some questions as to how his game will translate onto the smaller North American ice surface. Hughes really impressed me on film. He's the older brother of projected 2019 #1 overall pick Jack Hughes but he's a good player in his own right. A lot of the same deficiencies as Boqvist in being a smaller, less physical guy with the need to work on his defensive game. But just a magician with the way he skates with the puck and makes cuts. Better vision and playmaking than Boqvist by a nose IMO, but not as hard or accurate a snipe. He's a lefty as well, FWIW. Comparisons here have included Brian Rafalski, Dan Boyle, Gostisbehere, and Brian Leetch... from what I've seen, he's got the skill to be a top-tier NHL defenceman, but he needs some work and some improvement defensively. Bouchard is probably the lowest risk of the 4 guys, if you ask me. He's got decent size, he's got a heavy shot, and he shows good smarts. Knows when to jump into the rush. Right-handed shot. His coach Dale Hunter compared him to John Carlson. Others have said Brent Seabrook. Projects as a solid #2 defenceman, with maybe a slightly lower ceiling than the others because he's not as dynamic with the puck but with less risk that he'll simply be a PP specialist because he's better defensively and has better size. The last guy is Dobson. Like Boqvist and Bouchard, he's a righty. His stock has risen over the year and he's been scouted as a dependable two-way D man with offensive upside. Above average at a lot of things but doesn't really blow you away with any one particular skill. A lot of scouting reports comparing him to Alex Pietrangelo, although he needs to grow into his frame a bit more upper-body wise. His skating motion right now reminds me a bit of Danny DeKeyser, and I don't mean that as a complement. He's one of those players who could be an all-around solid top-pairing D man, or he could be a #4 guy like a DeKeyser or a Johnny Boychuk. He looked the best on paper out of the four but watching him for myself, I wasn't as impressed as the scouting reports led me to believe he would be. I think a lot of that comes down to skating, which is just so important to playing in the NHL.

- Oliver Wahlstrom is the other player who's crept up into the top 6-8 discussion. Listed in some places as a center, he's been moved back and forth from there and wing and has mainly played wing this season. Good shot, good center of gravity, comparisons to a guy like Brock Boeser.

I reserve the right to change this at any time, but based on my most recent look into these prospects, I'd rank them in order of how I'd draft them

1. Dahlin

2. Svechnikov

3. Zadina

4. Tkachuk

5. Hughes

6. Bouchard

7. Boqvist

8. Dobson

9. Wahlstrom

 

Would like to see a bit more of Boqvist and Dobson though, as I'm not sure if there's tape I haven't seen that makes these guys look more like what the scouts have said...

 

Id also agree with your rankings.


I could see our team ranking Tkachuk and Boqvist higher.   I could also see us going in on Walhstrom if we're say, 5th or 6th because he's the only guy in the top 10 who projects as a centre.  I think its the wrong move personally although id entertain trading our 1st to a team like edmonton for their 1st + Nurse so we can select Walhstrom later in the top 10 if thats an option. 

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4 hours ago, maas_art said:

Id also agree with your rankings.


I could see our team ranking Tkachuk and Boqvist higher.   I could also see us going in on Walhstrom if we're say, 5th or 6th because he's the only guy in the top 10 who projects as a centre.  I think its the wrong move personally although id entertain trading our 1st to a team like edmonton for their 1st + Nurse so we can select Walhstrom later in the top 10 if thats an option. 

I could definitely see Bergevin loving Tkachuk. It's not as bad as his overriding Timmins to select McCarron over skill, because Tkachuk at least projects as a top 6 forward in most every scout's books. But at the same time, I'd be doing a lot of wondering if MB selected Tkachuk ahead of Svechnikov. I don't know enough to say for sure that's the wrong choice, but knowing Bergevin's history and Timmins' comments about him, I'd have serious doubts the pick was made because Bergevin overrated perceived character or grit.

As for Wahlstrom, definite reach to grab him because you think he can be a center. We've gone down this road before. Galchenyuk. Drouin. Even Hudon and McCarron and Scherbak have been passed back and forth between wing and center. First and foremost, I believe you draft BPA, but if you're bumping up a guy's value one or two ranks because of position, you better be darn sure you're dead right about his ability to play that position. Bergevin has failed in that regard and doesn't deserve any benefit of the doubt here either. Again, from what I've read about Wahlstrom, he's been pretty much exclusively used as a winger this past year. From what I've seen of him in video, he looks pretty strong on his skates but he doesn't look like the most agile guy. He really looked like a winger to me.

Like you, I'd consider dropping down a few draft notches to acquire another asset like a Darnell Nurse. But if we're giving up on a Tkachuk, Hughes, or Bouchard to go down, I'd be doing it with the mindset that I'm falling into the range where we're taking Barrett Hayton, Joe Veleno, or Jesperi Kotkaniemi. I wouldn't be doing it because I think Wahlstrom is a center. FWIW, Tkachuk has also played a bit of center in his career, but he too doesn't project there as a NHL player.

First step is to see where we land after the lottery. But worst we can do is wind up 7th, and if you follow my rank order list, it should mean that worst case scenario is that we land one of Hughes, Bouchard, or Boqvist (or Dobson if you see him as being as good as some scouts see him). Any way you cut it, I think those players are all more likely to help us in the short to medium term than Wahlstrom.

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Reminder folks, the lottery takes place tomorrow at 7:30 est. 

Make or break for MB. I hope he's got a room full of Rabbit's feet. 

We should, theoretically, get a great player no matter where we draft but falling into Dahlin? That would almost singled handedly right half the ship. 

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