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Poll: What needs to change?


BigTed3
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Which of the following need to happen for you to believe in the Habs again?  

33 members have voted

  1. 1. Which of the following need to happen for you to believe in the Habs again?

    • Fire Julien
    • Fire Bergevin
    • Trade away the core (some or all of Price, Pacioretty, Weber, Gallagher, Petry, etc.)
    • Get a top 5 draft pick
    • Fix the defence corps
    • Big changes aren't needed; just reset and next season will be better


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The Habs have problems. Marc Bergevin might have you believe that things will be fine, what with such a fantastic D corps, and that next year could be a bounce back. Most fans, on the other hand, have given up. So what needs to change in your eyes to bring the Habs back into contention and to bring you back as a fan? You can choose any or all of the answers (multiple answers are allowed).

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If the big team stinks after years of deals, drafts and contract negotiations.....if the farm team really stinks at the same time and the prospect cupboards are bare......

Nothing short of a full rebuild along with a house-clearance of (many) inept backroom staff will do.

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7 hours ago, PuckPundit said:

How come there's no option for "Ownership Change"? :4322:  That is the root cause. 

Along with the French media that is content with mediocrity and is requirement for French speaking front office personnel.  It will take a French owner with the clout to say enough of this culture.  

 

 

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1. Firing Bergevin is imperative. He's proven his judgment is so bad that he doesn't deserve to have the job and can't be trusted to orchestrate a re-tool or re-build.

2. Firing Julien IMO isn't imperative. I wonder whether there is a better coach or not and don't agree with all of his decisions, but he's a proven coach and I think he can be given a shot with a better roster.

3. Re-tooling the D is a must. It's the biggest weakness on the team, and it's the primary reason we are awful at both ends of the ice. Alzner, Schlemko, Benn, and Morrow all have to go. Each one is hurting us, and to have 4 guys like that is just brutal. Again, this comes down to how bad a job Bergevin did, but we can't have these players here any more.

4. I think the team can win with the core of its current roster if the above changes are made, but I also think the they need a true 1C and some luck, and frankly it'll be hard to make those changes within a timeframe that allows you to compete with Weber and Price not going past their prime by too much and with Pacioretty on a reasonable/tradeable contract. So reasonably speaking, it makes the most sense to dump these three players and get assets that can help over a longer window.

5. It would be nice to get a top 5 pick. The top 4-5 players are clearly a notch above the rest in the draft, and could be NHL-ready right away. But it's not imperative. It would just speed up the re-build.

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I selected:

  1. Fire Bergevin
  2. Trade Away Core
  3. Top 5 Pick
  4. Fix Defense

Bergevin should already be fired. The longer he stays around the longer the team will be stuck in this rut. He is responsible for our defensive failures and our inability to acquire a top-six center.

In terms of the core, I would like to see Weber and Pacioretty moved as soon as possible.

Fingers crossed for a top 5 pick.

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I think what needs to change is the overall philosophy of hiring and acquiring French first,,, management and players.  Time to do what every other successful franchise does,,,, hire and draft the best available. Until we stop handicapping ourselves like that, things will never change. Win first and let the politics take a back seat.

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Why does everyone think Montreal must have a French GM. That is nonsense. Remember all the Stanley Cups brought by English GM's namely Frank Selke Sr. and Sam Pollock. Enough said. They should have never let Scottie Bowman slip away when he wanted to be GM. They need perhaps Stan Bowman from Chicago with Scottie as his advisor. I know they want to preserve the history, then start with the history of hiring the best candidates. The history was English speaking GM's and coaches.  I will never understand the thought process of it is better to lose with a French speaking coach and Gm than win with an English one. Can someone explain it to me. 

 

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Just now, ThinkOutsidethebox said:

Why does everyone think Montreal must have a French GM. That is nonsense. Remember all the Stanley Cups brought by English GM's namely Frank Selke Sr. and Sam Pollock. Enough said. They should have never let Scottie Bowman slip away when he wanted to be GM. They need perhaps Stan Bowman from Chicago with Scottie as his advisor. I know they want to preserve the history, then start with the history of hiring the best candidates. The history was English speaking GM's and coaches. 

That's the thing though. Not EVERYBODY feels that way. It's just a stupid self imposed restriction put in place to appease  French media. A cowardly move by an owner fearing some kind of boycott of his core business products. I say grow a pair and put the team first.

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15 minutes ago, ThinkOutsidethebox said:

Why does everyone think Montreal must have a French GM. That is nonsense. Remember all the Stanley Cups brought by English GM's namely Frank Selke Sr. and Sam Pollock. Enough said. They should have never let Scottie Bowman slip away when he wanted to be GM. They need perhaps Stan Bowman from Chicago with Scottie as his advisor. I know they want to preserve the history, then start with the history of hiring the best candidates. The history was English speaking GM's and coaches.  I will never understand the thought process of it is better to lose with a French speaking coach and Gm than win with an English one. Can someone explain it to me. 

 

:2008122810303:

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5 hours ago, H_T_L said:

That's the thing though. Not EVERYBODY feels that way. It's just a stupid self imposed restriction put in place to appease  French media. A cowardly move by an owner fearing some kind of boycott of his core business products. I say grow a pair and put the team first.

100%. This is a new self-imposed restriction that GM put in to pansy to the French media because he's scared of language politics. Molson is simply worried about the backlash, so instead he's opted to take the easy way out and stick with Francophones. The Cunneyworth escapade really added fuel to the fire for the hardcore Francophiles, who used that move to argue all English coaches were a bad idea.

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10 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

3. Re-tooling the D is a must. It's the biggest weakness on the team, and it's the primary reason we are awful at both ends of the ice. Alzner, Schlemko, Benn, and Morrow all have to go. Each one is hurting us, and to have 4 guys like that is just brutal. Again, this comes down to how bad a job Bergevin did, but we can't have these players here any more.

Agreed . But because MB and his staff did such a poor job of managing his assets and developing players , you get rid of these 4 guys and they're in the same situation as last summer trying to fill out a roster of six or more capable D men . And unfortunately he got left with the scraps . Tanking is vital so as to have the best opportunity possible of getting the young stud D man this summer

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10 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Agreed . But because MB and his staff did such a poor job of managing his assets and developing players , you get rid of these 4 guys and they're in the same situation as last summer trying to fill out a roster of six or more capable D men . And unfortunately he got left with the scraps . Tanking is vital so as to have the best opportunity possible of getting the young stud D man this summer

Absolutely, drafting a D man would be an easy fix to one of the holes if you get into the top 5. If you end up 6-10, most of the players ranked in that area are also defencemen like Dobson, Bouchard, etc., although I wonder if the Habs stretch for a center if they end up there. But I think if you look at you D corps next year, you can argue without significant change (just getting rid of the 4 guys I mentioned), you have

XXX-Weber

Mete-Petry

Jerabek-Juulsen

Lernout

 

It's not fantastic, but it's workable. A healthy Weber, a Mete with a year of extra experience, a better D man in Juulsen coming in... all of those things are upgrades on the 4 disasters we have now. UFA's that we could target:

- John Carlson: clearly the #1 guy to hit the market, if indeed he hits the market. Carlson is a righty, though, so he's probably more of a replacement for Weber that allows you to deal Shea for something else.

- Calvin de Haan: still 26, he could be a 2nd or 3rd pairing guy on the left, definitely an upgrade on Jerabek, Lernout, Juulsen...

- Cody Franson: would be a short-term signing, but could be a depth 6-7 guy on the right.

- Thomas Hickey: like de Haan, he'd be a mid-level D man to fill in on the left side.

- Mark Barberio: underrated guy who played well here. He could also be a 6-7 guy who can move the puck.

Not a lot of top-end options past Carlson (Jack Johnson isn't an ideal signing IMO), but we can definitely address our depth with players who are superior to what we have now. So imagine we get de Haan and Hickey, for example (which is feasible) and manage to dump our 4 slow guys. Then we'd be starting with

Mete-Weber

de Haan-Petry

Hickey-Juulsen

Jerabek

It's better. So then you have to start thinking about what you could get by trading Pacioretty, Weber, or Gallagher. There are some younger RFA guys who will be due raises that we could target, given our cap space... Matt Dumba, Brandon Montour, Darnell Nurse, Jacob Trouba, Ryan Murray. These are guys who start to improve your top 4 and can play for you down the line too. So there are options, for a good GM.

 

 

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On 2/18/2018 at 7:10 AM, BigTed3 said:

2. Firing Julien IMO isn't imperative. I wonder whether there is a better coach or not and don't agree with all of his decisions, but he's a proven coach and I think he can be given a shot with a better roster.

 

Yeah i hope he isnt fired.  If we were to bring in a new GM and make some substantial changes to this roster Id love to see Julien with a young, fast squad.  I think his patience would be rewarded & we could see a quick turn around assuming we can trade for players who are ready to play next year. 

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22 hours ago, maas_art said:

Yeah i hope he isnt fired.  If we were to bring in a new GM and make some substantial changes to this roster Id love to see Julien with a young, fast squad.  I think his patience would be rewarded & we could see a quick turn around assuming we can trade for players who are ready to play next year. 

If the case was that preconditions were set by MB that affected his decision making, I'd give him another shot at it (he has term on his contract too). But I'd like to see him make staff changes as well, which IMHO may have been part of the problem for him. That said, he does own part of the responsibility for this season result.

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On 2/18/2018 at 10:10 AM, BigTed3 said:

1. Firing Bergevin is imperative. He's proven his judgment is so bad that he doesn't deserve to have the job and can't be trusted to orchestrate a re-tool or re-build.

2. Firing Julien IMO isn't imperative. I wonder whether there is a better coach or not and don't agree with all of his decisions, but he's a proven coach and I think he can be given a shot with a better roster.

3. Re-tooling the D is a must. It's the biggest weakness on the team, and it's the primary reason we are awful at both ends of the ice. Alzner, Schlemko, Benn, and Morrow all have to go. Each one is hurting us, and to have 4 guys like that is just brutal. Again, this comes down to how bad a job Bergevin did, but we can't have these players here any more.

4. I think the team can win with the core of its current roster if the above changes are made, but I also think the they need a true 1C and some luck, and frankly it'll be hard to make those changes within a timeframe that allows you to compete with Weber and Price not going past their prime by too much and with Pacioretty on a reasonable/tradeable contract. So reasonably speaking, it makes the most sense to dump these three players and get assets that can help over a longer window.

5. It would be nice to get a top 5 pick. The top 4-5 players are clearly a notch above the rest in the draft, and could be NHL-ready right away. But it's not imperative. It would just speed up the re-build.

To me this pretty much covers how i see things needing to go as well. We can't have the same guy who thought this defence was going to work build the team! he has no clue! and less of a clue when it comes to negotiating with players it seems, Marky should have been a no brainer a lifelong Hab who loved it here and was respected in the room and losing Rads! i would have fired him right there and kept Rads! in two stupid acts where he felt the need to assert himself he ruined our offence and our defence. we would still have been a viable team if not for that perhaps not contenders but at least something that could have been fixed. now we are as bad as i have seen us in a long long time.

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54 minutes ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

If the case was that preconditions were set by MB that affected his decision making, I'd give him another shot at it (he has term on his contract too). But I'd like to see him make staff changes as well, which IMHO may have been part of the problem for him. That said, he does own part of the responsibility for this season result.

Agreed. No one is blameless and even if Julien's hands were tied I think he should have stood up more. I have a hard time believing he wouldnt have at least tried AG at centre if he wasnt being pressured not to and to me, at a certain point, you have to say "enough is enough, im coach." 

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38 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Agreed. No one is blameless and even if Julien's hands were tied I think he should have stood up more. I have a hard time believing he wouldnt have at least tried AG at centre if he wasnt being pressured not to and to me, at a certain point, you have to say "enough is enough, im coach." 

MB has a new fox hole buddy?

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On 2/18/2018 at 0:40 PM, jennifer_rocket said:

I selected:

  1. Fire Bergevin
  2. Trade Away Core
  3. Top 5 Pick
  4. Fix Defense

I accidentally put Fire Julien instead of Fire Bergevin. Otherwise, this is how I feel as well.

The core is over. Our high water mark was, in retrospect, the 2014 ECF. Bergevin has destroyed this team with his worthless backward lack of understanding of the modern game. We're not fine tuning our way out of this, unless the goal is to be a sad-sack bubble team getting bumped in the first round every other year.

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