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Poll: Lucic for Alzner


BigTed3
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Would you trade Karl Alzner for Milan Lucic straight up?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Would you trade Karl Alzner for Milan Lucic straight up?



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On 6/13/2018 at 5:01 PM, jennifer_rocket said:

How about the argument that Lucic's expression of anger and brashness on the ice will probably reflect the exact way we feel as fans with the direction of the organization, thus Lucic appearing empathetic to the plight of the fans, thus likely becoming a fan favorite?

I think that many fans will remember his antics vs. the Habs while he was playing for the Bruins... he could even be booed IMO while Fans once again disprove of Marc Bergevin's looking towards grit with older players.

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It was a hypothetical poll, so no firm evidence but per LeBrun we are apparently not (thankfully) interested in ML:

TSN: Pierre LeBrun reports there are trade conversations going on between the Edmonton Oilers and other teams regarding Oilers left wing Milan Lucic. While a lot of people are trying to link Lucic to the Montreal Canadiens because they lost out in the bidding for his services two years ago, LeBrun said he’s told they are no longer interested in the big winger.

 

 

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I voted yes but am now thinking otherwise. If they had the same contract remaining, I'd stick with yes (Lucic at least has some chance to help us offensively). But given the cap mess MB is already leaving for the next GM, taking an a bigger cap hit, and most importantly, for an extra year, could turn out to be a high-cost for a small short-term (maybe) gain.

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20 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

I voted yes but am now thinking otherwise. If they had the same contract remaining, I'd stick with yes (Lucic at least has some chance to help us offensively). But given the cap mess MB is already leaving for the next GM, taking an a bigger cap hit, and most importantly, for an extra year, could turn out to be a high-cost for a small short-term (maybe) gain.

I don't think there's any question Lucic is the more valuable player straight up. The question is whether it's worth that extra money and term, and like your recent thinking, I think it's a no. They're both dead weight against the cap, so no need to make the swap. The trade the Habs probably need to make is taking on a dead weight cap hit that's higher than Alzner's but for 1-2 years as opposed to 4 more. Take the added cap hit in years where you're not competitive and relieve yourself of the giant mistake a bit sooner..

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3 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

I voted yes but am now thinking otherwise. If they had the same contract remaining, I'd stick with yes (Lucic at least has some chance to help us offensively). But given the cap mess MB is already leaving for the next GM, taking an a bigger cap hit, and most importantly, for an extra year, could turn out to be a high-cost for a small short-term (maybe) gain.

I voted yes too and am now thinking exactly the same way

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13 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

No way Edmonton would be so foolish as to trade Lucic for Alzner one on one IMO.

Thanks to Bergevin we hold the weaker player who is grossly overpaid.

Besides, in his own minuscule way of thinking, our GM is probably convinced we have the better player.

Bergevin's thought process:

Alzner's "intangibles" > Lucic's "intangibles"!!!

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12 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

:4224:

Indeed. When it comes to intangibles, we have the best GM in the league able to diagnose this enigma.

For once, I would like to hear Bergevin make a trade based on tangibles. Get a guy who is measurably and demonstrably better than the guy you traded away. Hasn't happened in a long time. Bergevin's best moves (the Petry deal, the Vanek for Collberg trade, Byron off waivers, etc.) were the ones where he didn't give up anyone whose talent he had had the chance to evaluate. When he's traded players we've actually developed and established here, he's managed to minimize their value and/or trade at their lowest point in almost all cases...

- He and Therrien bashed Subban repeatedly then dealt him

- They mismanaged Tinordi and let him languish until he had no value

- They played Bouillon/Murray rather than developing Beaulieu, tossed him around the bottom of the line-up then dealt him for nothing so they could keep Benn

- Speaking of Benn, they acquired him after Pateryn's wife made a social media comment they didn't like.

- Off ice issues? Kassian gets suspended for being a passenger in a car accident. Trade him away for nothing too.

- Galchenyuk gets bashed and benched and pulled off the position where he could develop more value during a season where the team is going no where, then dealt for a guy who had 5 goals against goaltenders last year.

- Fucale and McCarron were once coveted prospects in trade proposals, if you believe the rumors. The first might be done and the latter might be soon too. Plummeting value with no return.

- He could have traded Plekanec a couple of seasons ago, when he still had huge value too. We're lucky to have escaped with a late 2nd rounder for him, but he easily could have fetched us a first and more if we had acted earlier, and with Eller and Danault sitting behind him, we had replacements lined up we didn't use.

- Desharnais, it was plain to see to anyone, had success far above what he was worth because he was getting 1st line minutes and PP time playing with Pacioretty. Instead of trading him while he had value, we waited and waited and ended up basically dumping him for nothing.

- Andrighetto... what was MB thinking? You have a skill guy, play him with other skill and build up his value. Don't let him play in the AHL and 4th line here and then deal him for a plugger.

- Barberio waived when he was decent instead of either keeping him or making a trade... zero value on that nil return obviously.

 

It's been a long and consistent string of asset mismanagement. You didn't like Galchenyuk as a person? Fine. But make sure you get market value for him. In a lost season, you play the guy at center with his best chemistry winger (Gallagher) and you give him PP time and you build up his value and then you trade him marketing him as a 1C. You don't give him 10 games on the 4th line then keep him off the PP for a stretch then move him up and down but never play him with Gallagher. Yet another example of brutal asset management. Everyone knows you buy low and sell high, and Bergevin is consistently selling low. As I said, the only assets he hasn't been able to de-value have been picks and newly-drafted prospects (Collberg, Sergachev)... really the only times he hasn't been utterly fleeced on trades.

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On 6/17/2018 at 9:03 PM, BigTed3 said:

For once, I would like to hear Bergevin make a trade based on tangibles. Get a guy who is measurably and demonstrably better than the guy you traded away. Hasn't happened in a long time. Bergevin's best moves (the Petry deal, the Vanek for Collberg trade, Byron off waivers, etc.) were the ones where he didn't give up anyone whose talent he had had the chance to evaluate. When he's traded players we've actually developed and established here, he's managed to minimize their value and/or trade at their lowest point in almost all cases...

- He and Therrien bashed Subban repeatedly then dealt him

- They mismanaged Tinordi and let him languish until he had no value

- They played Bouillon/Murray rather than developing Beaulieu, tossed him around the bottom of the line-up then dealt him for nothing so they could keep Benn

- Speaking of Benn, they acquired him after Pateryn's wife made a social media comment they didn't like.

- Off ice issues? Kassian gets suspended for being a passenger in a car accident. Trade him away for nothing too.

- Galchenyuk gets bashed and benched and pulled off the position where he could develop more value during a season where the team is going no where, then dealt for a guy who had 5 goals against goaltenders last year.

- Fucale and McCarron were once coveted prospects in trade proposals, if you believe the rumors. The first might be done and the latter might be soon too. Plummeting value with no return.

- He could have traded Plekanec a couple of seasons ago, when he still had huge value too. We're lucky to have escaped with a late 2nd rounder for him, but he easily could have fetched us a first and more if we had acted earlier, and with Eller and Danault sitting behind him, we had replacements lined up we didn't use.

- Desharnais, it was plain to see to anyone, had success far above what he was worth because he was getting 1st line minutes and PP time playing with Pacioretty. Instead of trading him while he had value, we waited and waited and ended up basically dumping him for nothing.

- Andrighetto... what was MB thinking? You have a skill guy, play him with other skill and build up his value. Don't let him play in the AHL and 4th line here and then deal him for a plugger.

- Barberio waived when he was decent instead of either keeping him or making a trade... zero value on that nil return obviously.

 

It's been a long and consistent string of asset mismanagement. You didn't like Galchenyuk as a person? Fine. But make sure you get market value for him. In a lost season, you play the guy at center with his best chemistry winger (Gallagher) and you give him PP time and you build up his value and then you trade him marketing him as a 1C. You don't give him 10 games on the 4th line then keep him off the PP for a stretch then move him up and down but never play him with Gallagher. Yet another example of brutal asset management. Everyone knows you buy low and sell high, and Bergevin is consistently selling low. As I said, the only assets he hasn't been able to de-value have been picks and newly-drafted prospects (Collberg, Sergachev)... really the only times he hasn't been utterly fleeced on trades.

:6351:

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