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Galchenyuk traded for Domi


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I think they got good value back and didn't demand more because Galchenyuk's value was at all time low for a player with his potential. So their plan is to draft Kotkaniemi and have pieces like Drouin, Domi, Scherbak, Gallagher, Hudon, Mete, Juulsen play alongside him in a few years.

Who plays 1C in the meantime? Can Ryan Poehling also step into the Top6?

Who do we acquire with all this cap space?

If Price doesn't step up, do they risk hurting his pride and choosing Lindgren over him?

What do we see from Shea Weber?

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20 hours ago, Disillusioned1 said:

Well, a Ford is a lot better these days than before...

Also, we can argue all we want about the relative value of Galchenyuk vs. Domi, but there's another reason why I used the Mercedes vs. Ford analogy.  With a Mercedes you konw you're getting a car that goes pretty fast (scores goals), handles pretty well (good hands), is pretty luxurious and comfortable (skilled) but perhaps isn't as safe as a Volvo (average defence) or as reliable as a Honda (consistency).  But at the end of the day you're getting a pretty darn good car.

On the other hand, a Ford is not necessarily a bad car, but it is first of all, very utilitarian.  Secondly, it's not necessarily weak in any area but also excels at none.  Lastly but certainly not the least, it is far more replaceable.  That's what we did here.  It's not just that we replaced a Mercedes (better car, however much better we can talk about) with a worse one, it's also the fact we got something that to me personally, doesn't stand out.  It's better than a Dodge or a Chrystler but it doesn't excel.

I would suggest Domi will be more like the Mustang while Galchebyuk the has potential to be the W202 which was a Mercedes noted for its shady electronics ie poor decision making.

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2 hours ago, Habberwacky said:

I would suggest Domi will be more like the Mustang while Galchebyuk the has potential to be the W202 which was a Mercedes noted for its shady electronics ie poor decision making.

When Domi scores 30 goals, you can come back and tell me all about how he's a Mustang.

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Just for reference.  Since Galchenyuk got drafted, I'm gonna exclude the first strike shortened year, in no year has there been 30 players who scored 30 goals or more.  The year Galchenyuk did for example, there were 28.  The lowest was 2014-2015 were there were 15, and it generally hovered around the low to mid 20 or so mark.  That is, once again, not a Bugatti, but it is pretty exclusive company.

He was a 20 goal scorer in his first full season, the third season (his second season he was injured for 17 games) and a 30 goal scorer in his fourth.  The trade is not a giveaway and, nothing against Domi personally, but we should not pretend to be happy about it.

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28 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Danault?   Petry? 

 

Not much else though. 

Vanek was a good move, so was the trade that got us Wiese (which we used to get Danault once he started playing bad). Getting us out of the Cole contract and getting Ryder... I still scratch my head cause early on I mostly liked MB... but then he went crazy

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I still scratch my head cause early on I mostly liked MB... but then he went crazy

Totally.  I didnt even really have a problem with MT for 2 years. Sometimes you want a cheerleader - he definitely broke the team of some bad habits and got the gang playing like a unit. But after year 1 or 2 he should have been canned.  By year 3 it was so obvious to everyone and i think somewhere in that point in time, when it was abundantly clear MB should jettison his buddy from the foxhole, he took the proverbial bullet to the brain & has never since recovered. 

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22 hours ago, Litany said:

I'll take that bet.  We aren't going to have anywhere near as many late game leads he'd need to be able to pot empty netters into.

What, that Domi will spend the majority of his career scoring between 20-30 goals a season? Maybe a touch optimistic, perhaps 15-25 is more realistic. Anyways, point is I think Domi has better hands than he is being credited for. I have no explanation for the past two seasons, but do we really think that his rookie year is the best he has, and that he will never reach even those heights again? I expect that he will surpass those totals. I can't say by how much, or when, but I don't think it's unreasonable to eventually see him plateau around 20 goals/40 assists.

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2 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

What, that Domi will spend the majority of his career scoring between 20-30 goals a season? Maybe a touch optimistic, perhaps 15-25 is more realistic. Anyways, point is I think Domi has better hands than he is being credited for. I have no explanation for the past two seasons, but do we really think that his rookie year is the best he has, and that he will never reach even those heights again? I expect that he will surpass those totals. I can't say by how much, or when, but I don't think it's unreasonable to eventually see him plateau around 20 goals/40 assists.

You do realize you just said that you hope his upside is what Galchenyuk is today, in a down season.  Then once again, why did we do the trade?

But on the more practical side of things, he's billed as a playmaker right?  Who will he pass to?  Even if Pacioretty doesn't get traded and gets back to scoring 35 goals instead of 17, or Webber somehow remains healthy for the whole year, this team still can't score any damn goals, before it traded its third leading scorer.

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On 6/22/2018 at 6:42 PM, Habberwacky said:

I would suggest Domi will be more like the Mustang while Galchebyuk the has potential to be the W202 which was a Mercedes noted for its shady electronics ie poor decision making.

I'll take the Mustang any day. The old Mustangs in particular, from 1964 to about 1970. You had the base Mustang, the Boss Mustang, the Mach 1 and the Shelby Mustang. Not a bad group at all.

As far as this trade goes, I would have liked it if the Canadiens could have gotten another player as part of the deal. They need numbers right now, to build up depth and find a few guys who could blossom into stars and hopefully superstars. But I will admit, I was not impressed with Galchenyuk when he was with the Habs.

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2 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

, but I don't think it's unreasonable to eventually see him plateau around 20 goals/40 assists.

check the stats for the last  5 years or so

60 points would almost lead this team in scoring

 

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4 minutes ago, Disillusioned1 said:

You do realize you just said that you hope his upside is what Galchenyuk is today, in a down season.  Then once again, why did we do the trade?

But on the more practical side of things, he's billed as a playmaker right?  Who will he pass to?  Even if Pacioretty doesn't get traded and gets back to scoring 35 goals instead of 17, or Webber somehow remains healthy for the whole year, this team still can't score any damn goals, before it traded its third leading scorer.

I wasn't meaning to imply that Domi turning into a consistent 20/40 guy equaled us winning the trade, just that he has better hands than a lot of people are giving him credit for. And that I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up 20+ goals regularly.

But, since you mention it. Galchenyuk has never put up a 20/40 season, let alone in a down year. And no mater how you play with the numbers, 30/30, 40/20, he's never put up 60 points. He's had a shortened season or two where his PPG% might have been close to that, absolutely. But to say Galchenyuk is a 60 point player is a stretch, and to add "in a down season"? I don't know man...

For arguments sake, lets assume we traded a guaranteed 60 point player for a projected to be 60 point player (that was just my projection to be clear, I don't have any outside sources to quote Domi as a 60 point player). If i were to attempt to convince you that the trade was a win for us I would do so by highlighting the stats that point to Domi being the more complete hockey player. Their +/- speaks volumes. Personally, I don't look at the trade based on winners and losers. I see two equally young, equally talented players that needed fresh starts. I hope everybody wins.

As for who is going to score without our third best scorer? I can't say for certain. I will say that Lehkonen has shown in the past to have a pretty wicked one-timer from the slot, as well as a few others that have room for an increase in their scoring like Hudon, Scherbak, Drouin etc. Other than one year, Galchenyuk himself hasn't really put up much more than 20, which is my prediction for Domi. And lastly, playmakers have the ability to create scorers. Just look at Big Joe and how many 40 goal scorers he has created over the course of his career. Lol Domi is no Joe, just pointing out the nature of playmaking.

I'm not trying to pretend that Domi is a superfreak, but I think we're just worrying ourselves into a tizzy over nothing. He's not a slug, the kid can play just fine, and Galchenyuk isn't leaving behind as big of a crater to fill as some are letting on. We might have just as bad a season this year as we just had, but it won't be because of this trade. (except for maybe the fact that we didn't acquire a top left D or center, but obviously nobody was willing to bite on that)    

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9 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

. I will say that Lehkonen has shown in the past to have a pretty wicked one-timer from the slot, as well as a few others that have room for an increase in their scoring like Hudon, Scherbak, Drouin etc.

The Habs do not have a real  # 1 and a # 2 C . Good luck with hoping  those guys can score goals . They cant  even get the puck out of their own end because the D is awful

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12 minutes ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I wasn't meaning to imply that Domi turning into a consistent 20/40 guy equaled us winning the trade, just that he has better hands than a lot of people are giving him credit for. And that I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up 20+ goals regularly.

But, since you mention it. Galchenyuk has never put up a 20/40 season, let alone in a down year. And no mater how you play with the numbers, 30/30, 40/20, he's never put up 60 points. He's had a shortened season or two where his PPG% might have been close to that, absolutely. But to say Galchenyuk is a 60 point player is a stretch, and to add "in a down season"? I don't know man...

For arguments sake, lets assume we traded a guaranteed 60 point player for a projected to be 60 point player (that was just my projection to be clear, I don't have any outside sources to quote Domi as a 60 point player). If i were to attempt to convince you that the trade was a win for us I would do so by highlighting the stats that point to Domi being the more complete hockey player. Their +/- speaks volumes. Personally, I don't look at the trade based on winners and losers. I see two equally young, equally talented players that needed fresh starts. I hope everybody wins.

As for who is going to score without our third best scorer? I can't say for certain. I will say that Lehkonen has shown in the past to have a pretty wicked one-timer from the slot, as well as a few others that have room for an increase in their scoring like Hudon, Scherbak, Drouin etc. Other than one year, Galchenyuk himself hasn't really put up much more than 20, which is my prediction for Domi. And lastly, playmakers have the ability to create scorers. Just look at Big Joe and how many 40 goal scorers he has created over the course of his career. Lol Domi is no Joe, just pointing out the nature of playmaking.

I'm not trying to pretend that Domi is a superfreak, but I think we're just worrying ourselves into a tizzy over nothing. He's not a slug, the kid can play just fine, and Galchenyuk isn't leaving behind as big of a crater to fill as some are letting on. We might have just as bad a season this year as we just had, but it won't be because of this trade. (except for maybe the fact that we didn't acquire a top left D or center, but obviously nobody was willing to bite on that)    

First of all, +/- speaks volumns does it?  I don't know who it was that mentioned it here, if that's the case the Alzner's a better player than Petry.

Second, Galchenyuk was a 56 point scorer, playing roughly 15 mintues a game, when he only played centre for part of it and had decent linemates, once gain, only for the part of it, without playing on the PP.  So technically no that's not 60 points, but it's better than 40 points.  In addition, to quote myself above.  If you consider Galchenyuk a 30 goal scorer, then he's in a pretty exclusive group that's less than 3.5% of the league.  Even if he's a 20 goal scorer, that's at minimum, top 8% of the league.  And on our team, we scored 209 goals last year as a team.  Some we just traded away roughly 10% of our goal production (on a year he shot terribly too) and one of the few semi-reliable options on our dreadful powerplay, so we're definitely not fine.

Lastly but certainly not the least, I don't have a crystal ball.  We don't deal in hypotheticals.  But since we're assuming things about the future, we can just as well assume that Galchenyuk somehow miraculously develop strong defensive skills in his prime, or more realistically, become a 75 to 80 point scorer.  That's no more or less accurate than predicting Domi will be a 60 point scorer.  Why would I give away the essential bird in hand of a basically 60 point scorer for a hypothetical 60 point scorer?

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On 6/25/2018 at 6:15 PM, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I wasn't meaning to imply that Domi turning into a consistent 20/40 guy equaled us winning the trade, just that he has better hands than a lot of people are giving him credit for. And that I wouldn't be surprised to see him put up 20+ goals regularly.

But, since you mention it. Galchenyuk has never put up a 20/40 season, let alone in a down year. And no mater how you play with the numbers, 30/30, 40/20, he's never put up 60 points. He's had a shortened season or two where his PPG% might have been close to that, absolutely. But to say Galchenyuk is a 60 point player is a stretch, and to add "in a down season"? I don't know man...

For arguments sake, lets assume we traded a guaranteed 60 point player for a projected to be 60 point player (that was just my projection to be clear, I don't have any outside sources to quote Domi as a 60 point player). If i were to attempt to convince you that the trade was a win for us I would do so by highlighting the stats that point to Domi being the more complete hockey player. Their +/- speaks volumes. Personally, I don't look at the trade based on winners and losers. I see two equally young, equally talented players that needed fresh starts. I hope everybody wins.

As for who is going to score without our third best scorer? I can't say for certain. I will say that Lehkonen has shown in the past to have a pretty wicked one-timer from the slot, as well as a few others that have room for an increase in their scoring like Hudon, Scherbak, Drouin etc. Other than one year, Galchenyuk himself hasn't really put up much more than 20, which is my prediction for Domi. And lastly, playmakers have the ability to create scorers. Just look at Big Joe and how many 40 goal scorers he has created over the course of his career. Lol Domi is no Joe, just pointing out the nature of playmaking.

I'm not trying to pretend that Domi is a superfreak, but I think we're just worrying ourselves into a tizzy over nothing. He's not a slug, the kid can play just fine, and Galchenyuk isn't leaving behind as big of a crater to fill as some are letting on. We might have just as bad a season this year as we just had, but it won't be because of this trade. (except for maybe the fact that we didn't acquire a top left D or center, but obviously nobody was willing to bite on that)    

Re-evaluating a bit later, I don't think this trade was quite as awful or lopsided as I did initially. We are losing the better player, but we also get the better contractual situation (cheaper and longer team control) and less time in the NHL suggests Domi may not have peaked yet (this is a highly touted prospect coming off his rookie contract, which included a solid rookie season). And I think Montreal fans can over-evaluate Galchenyk due to his skill level - but when it comes down to it, his production - what ultimately matters - has only been okay.

I still don't like this trade for a couple reasons - given Domi is coming off 2 down-seasons, I think something like Galchenyk for Domi + 2nd-rounder would be more fair. But more importantly, I don't feel like it met a major need and we lost one of our (sadly) best and most season-to-season consistent point-getters - so situationally I don't like it either.

So I'd rate it still pretty bad, but not Subban for Weber bad.

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5 hours ago, Graeme-1 said:

Re-evaluating a bit later, I don't think this trade was quite as awful or lopsided as I did initially. We are losing the better player, but we also get the better contractual situation (cheaper and longer team control) and less time in the NHL suggests Domi may not have peaked yet (this is a highly touted prospect coming off his rookie contract, which included a solid rookie season). And I think Montreal fans can over-evaluate Galchenyk due to his skill level - but when it comes down to it, his production - what ultimately matters - has only been okay.

I still don't like this trade for a couple reasons - given Domi is coming off 2 down-seasons, I think something like Galchenyk for Domi + 2nd-rounder would be more fair. But more importantly, I don't feel like it met a major need and we lost one of our (sadly) best and most season-to-season consistent point-getters - so situationally I don't like it either.

So I'd rate it still pretty bad, but not Subban for Weber bad.

Not as bad as Subban-Weber but still another losing trade IMO. What it comes down to is anger against Bergevin and the Habs for yet another case of simply terrible asset management. As I've said, I'm sure Galchenyuk didn't have as much trade market value as we would have liked, but a lot of that comes back to what the Habs did to lower that value. They bashed him in the media. They benched him or demoted him in the line-up repeatedly. They refused to play him at the higher-value center position, even though he requested it and even though our season was clearly lost. The guy has frankly had offensive success in that role before, and he is as good defensively as Desharnais (our 1C for years) and not that far off Drouin. Even if Galchenyuk had been brutal in his own zone, if he had been paired with Gallagher and allowed to play at center and put up 25 goals and 55 points, he would have been in higher demand. Teams don't talk about how badly Malkin does in the face-off circle or his defensive lacunes. Teams don't talk about McDavid's defensive miscues. Goal-scoring is at such a premium that if you can find a center who puts up 25-30 repeatedly, he's going to be in demand.

Instead, the Habs clearly made it personal, as they've done with countless other players. And as a result, we got minimal value on our return. So I'm not going to argue about whether Domi will end up being better or worse for us, but I am going to argue AG's value was minimized by the Habs. Why was he not allowed to play center? Why was he never given a look with Gallagher this year, despite their history of success before? Why did he not have a long-term deal here, leaving us to worry about UFA status in 2 years while Gallagher got one? Personal grudge, personal grudge, personal grudge. It's a recurring theme with Bergevin. I wouldn't be surprised in the least if Philip Danault gets a 4-5 year deal or longer. I wouldn't be surprised if Lehkonen gets one when it comes time. Yet I wonder if Hudon's going to have to take a bridge deal. The asset mismanagement has been rampant, and that's why I'm upset. This trade is merely a reflection of how Bergevin turned a dollar into a dime.

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