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Galchenyuk traded for Domi


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1 minute ago, FireHabs said:

Now MB is taking about giving up the third pick, how does that make everyone feel?

He did? Can you give a source?  Unless the guy we want will be available a couple of spots down & we can get an asset + their pick, im probably not interested.  Like i said in another thread, if Edmonton wants to talk about dealing us Draisaitl for 3rd over + _____ then id definitely listen. 

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Ugh, just found out about this.  As a guy who just a few years ago would tape games to make sure I caught all 82, I honestly don't think I'm going to tune in to a single match this year.  I'm done.  What's there to watch?  What's there to hope for?  Maybe it sounds like I'm being dramatic or whatever, but it's simply the truth.  I've got better things to do with my time than be frustrated by a GM trading away anybody who's fun to watch in nonsense, sell-low deals.  Maybe I'm too much in my own head, but I can't watch this train wreck of a hockey team play without getting annoyed at how it got to be this way and where it's (not) going from here.

You can look at this trade a dozen ways, lots of which are spelled out in this thread, and Bergevin comes out looking like a fool in all of them.  But the worst to me is his utter and complete certainty that this path of grit > skill that he's got us on is the right way to build a team despite all evidence to the contrary.  The hockey world is near-unanimous in their criticism of these sorts of moves, but he's still there giving the same useless press conferences about how much character the new guy has while offering NO hockey-related reasons for doing what he does.  Newsflash: if every trade you make ends up in a press conference that feels more like an argument, maybe you're doing something wrong.  Meanwhile this team plays worse year after year after year as we slowly bleed our talent away.

Bergevin is obviously looking at the game of hockey and seeing something nobody else is seeing.  When you put yourself out there by going all-in against the conventional wisdom like this you're either going to reveal yourself as a genius or an idiot.  And I think the results so far speak for themselves...

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While I think we have more of the risk in this trade  short term. long term Galchenyuk is a UFA after two years and may not be in  the desert for long. Although we should see him focus on his game a little more to maximize his value. I still think we should have hot a little more from the deal and like the contract.  Having Domi, and Gallagher together with a healthy Shaw and Weber is not going to make life fun for a lot of other teams. What would be nice is if Domi can fulfill some of that crash and pass style that Rads had to help set up Patches. MP needs someone who can get him the puck and while Galchenyuk was effective on the PP I think we'll see Domi as a more responsible and consistent performer night in and night out 5 on 5. Read an interview with Shane Doan tonight talking about scoring 28 goals alongside Domi and he seems to think Domi  is ready to break out, Only problem is we have to wait 4 months to find out. Bergy better be picking a ready to play goal scorer as insurance towards his job and our season or the blow back may be more than Molson can control.

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18 minutes ago, Manatee-X said:

Ugh, just found out about this.  As a guy who just a few years ago would tape games to make sure I caught all 82, I honestly don't think I'm going to tune in to a single match this year.  I'm done.  What's there to watch?  What's there to hope for?  Maybe it sounds like I'm being dramatic or whatever, but it's simply the truth. 

This.

Over at EOTP someone commented that if MB did something amazing like signing Tavares he'd be 1/2 has mad at him as he is right now, but thats still a huge hole to climb out of.   Its not like we had tons of tradable assets to begin with and you can argue Galchenyuk was right at the very top of the list, so losing him for a player not even his equal, and at a position we dont need more players at feels like a massive step backwards. 

Like you, unless something changes dramatically I wont watch many games this year.   I watched pretty much every game for decades - even the dark days of Bulis-Koivu-Zednik as our first line - but at least then you didnt feel like the team was getting worse each year. This is brutal.  When will Molson step in??

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40 minutes ago, maas_art said:

He did? Can you give a source?  Unless the guy we want will be available a couple of spots down & we can get an asset + their pick, im probably not interested.  Like i said in another thread, if Edmonton wants to talk about dealing us Draisaitl for 3rd over + _____ then id definitely listen. 

MONTREAL GAZETTE

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40 minutes ago, FireHabs said:

MONTREAL GAZETTE

Link:http://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/canadiens-gm-marc-bergevin-willing-to-listen-to-offers-for-draft-pick

 

yeah, seems like the standard shtick though.  "“I’ll listen, I’m open,” Bergevin said about possibly trading the No. 3 pick when he met with the media Saturday morning at the Bell Centre to discuss Friday night’s deal that sent Alex Galchenyuk to the Arizona Coyotes in exchange for Max Domi. “I’ve told teams if they want to make me an offer, I’ll look at it. But again, sometimes teams don’t want to move up. As much as a team wants to move back or move up, if there’s no takers or buyers then you just sit where you’re at.”"   He's been saying this for a while now.

Reading between the lines, it sounds more like they (MB and Timmins) have targeted someone they believe will be available after 3rd (Hughes? Kotkaneimi?) and figure, "why not move down & nab an asset at the same time."

Funny, we were talking the other day about moving 3rd OVA for 5th OVA + Domi.  Didnt think we'd give AG straight up to get him.  

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8 hours ago, Manatee-X said:

Ugh, just found out about this.  As a guy who just a few years ago would tape games to make sure I caught all 82, I honestly don't think I'm going to tune in to a single match this year.  I'm done.  What's there to watch?  What's there to hope for?  Maybe it sounds like I'm being dramatic or whatever, but it's simply the truth.  I've got better things to do with my time than be frustrated by a GM trading away anybody who's fun to watch in nonsense, sell-low deals.  Maybe I'm too much in my own head, but I can't watch this train wreck of a hockey team play without getting annoyed at how it got to be this way and where it's (not) going from here.

You can look at this trade a dozen ways, lots of which are spelled out in this thread, and Bergevin comes out looking like a fool in all of them.  But the worst to me is his utter and complete certainty that this path of grit > skill that he's got us on is the right way to build a team despite all evidence to the contrary.  The hockey world is near-unanimous in their criticism of these sorts of moves, but he's still there giving the same useless press conferences about how much character the new guy has while offering NO hockey-related reasons for doing what he does.  Newsflash: if every trade you make ends up in a press conference that feels more like an argument, maybe you're doing something wrong.  Meanwhile this team plays worse year after year after year as we slowly bleed our talent away.

Bergevin is obviously looking at the game of hockey and seeing something nobody else is seeing.  When you put yourself out there by going all-in against the conventional wisdom like this you're either going to reveal yourself as a genius or an idiot.  And I think the results so far speak for themselves...

You're not being dramatic at all. I don't blame you for not wanting to watch the games. The team doesn't score goals, they can't play defense, and there are no entertaining players left on the roster. Unless Bergevin makes some incredible moves in the next few weeks, we're going to be battling for Jack Hughes.

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On 6/16/2018 at 8:57 AM, jennifer_rocket said:

In the last three seasons Alex has scored 10, 8, and 12 more goals than Domi has. But our team doesn't need goal-scoring, right???

Do you know William Karlsson, his first three seaons in the league he scored 3 goals, 9 goals and 6 goals. That would mean Alex would have scored 17, 21, and 11 more goals then him. If Vegas offered Karlsson for Galchenyk  straight up would you take that deal? 

Look its no secret i was not a Galchenyk fan. And i thought if you traded him or packaged him in a trade it should be for a center or top pairing LHD dee. 

Dont base your perception of Domi based on 3 seasons. Also unlike Galchenyk he knows there is a Neutral Zone and Defensive Zone in a hockey game :)

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3 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Do you know William Karlsson, his first three seaons in the league he scored 3 goals, 9 goals and 6 goals. That would mean Alex would have scored 17, 21, and 11 more goals then him. If Vegas offered Karlsson for Galchenyk  straight up would you take that deal? 

Look its no secret i was not a Galchenyk fan. And i thought if you traded him or packaged him in a trade it should be for a center or top pairing LHD dee. 

Dont base your perception of Domi based on 3 seasons. Also unlike Galchenyk he knows there is a Neutral Zone and Defensive Zone in a hockey game :)

I agree with you. I'm not as high on Chucky as other people here but couldn't they have gone after a Center or an LHD... even someone with similar point production; a risk that they believe in... I would have been on board with that.... but we are risking for what? Just another winger... the reward does not seem worth the risk to me

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33 minutes ago, habsisme said:

I agree with you. I'm not as high on Chucky as other people here but couldn't they have gone after a Center or an LHD... even someone with similar point production; a risk that they believe in... I would have been on board with that.... but we are risking for what? Just another winger... the reward does not seem worth the risk to me

This is my issue as well, we have glaring needs and if you are dead set on trading one of our more valuable assets fill a need don't just move sideways and down! it is kind of insane! i feel for Domi he is now in the same boat as Webber is traded for a player that had a strong following here and not much hope of filling his skates! not going to be a comfortable time for him here.

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4 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Do you know William Karlsson, his first three seaons in the league he scored 3 goals, 9 goals and 6 goals. That would mean Alex would have scored 17, 21, and 11 more goals then him. If Vegas offered Karlsson for Galchenyk  straight up would you take that deal? 

Look its no secret i was not a Galchenyk fan. And i thought if you traded him or packaged him in a trade it should be for a center or top pairing LHD dee. 

Dont base your perception of Domi based on 3 seasons. Also unlike Galchenyk he knows there is a Neutral Zone and Defensive Zone in a hockey game :)

William Karlsson shot 23.4% last season.  Are you expecting him to shoot 23.4% again?

Also, that means our team building plan involves hail marys and wishful thinking?  That would be funny if I didn't think that's exactly Bergevin's plan on Tavares.

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5 hours ago, CANADIENS27 said:

Bergevin says he understands the fans' frustration but they don't know Max.  A lot of fans seem to be saying otherwise.  

I love how Bergevin's go-to for explaining his obviously bad moves is always that he and his staff of high priests have magical knowledge that is automatically excluded from everyone else.

It's not 1988 anymore, Marc.

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20 minutes ago, habs_93 said:

I love how Bergevin's go-to for explaining his obviously bad moves is always that he and his staff of high priests have magical knowledge that is automatically excluded from everyone else.

It's not 1988 anymore, Marc.

:4224:

Our GM seems to be losing his marbles.

It tragically funny. 

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It would have been nice to have nabbed up an extra asset in the trade. It always is, and that's something I really wish MB would do more often.

But other than that, I like the trade. I expected to see Galchenyuk traded before the draft, and like so many others on here, figured it would be for either a C or LD. I also expected for us to be the ones having to package him with extra assets in order to get it done. The toughest part about trading Chucky is the fact that MB has done nothing but drag him through the mud over the last couple years. Hard to present a player like he's a top notch asset when the whole world sees you treat him like he's exactly the opposite. So considering that, I'm just happy we were able to do something.

And Domi is a boss! I have no explanations for his season last year, but the id is really good. High skill, high speed, high intensity. I'm sad to see Galchenyuk's one timer go (I think that's about all I'm really going to miss), but I'm pretty pumped to see Domi in the line up. Even if he doesn't fill any gaps, I think by the end of the season it will prove to be an upgrade. Even if Domi doesn't out perform Galchenyuk, I believe he will out perform what Galchenyuk would have done had he been stuck playing through the same situation he has been over the last two seasons (if that makes any sense).

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My initial reaction to this trade was "yuck".

But having had time to absorb it ... while I would have liked to get a bit more for Chucky, I don't think we got totally robbed either.

Chucky has a better overall offensive ceiling yes, but Domi brings almost as good potential (102pts last year on in OHL).     They're two very different players ... Chucky drives the play by controlling the puck, Domi is a playmaker.    So I think the hope here is that Domi will be making plays to our shooters (Patches, Lehkonen, Sherbek, Gallagher) and our overall success will be higher.   Domi is also the much better two way player as well.     

So while I don't absolutely hate this trade, I'm not overly upset by it either .. I think Domi actually may complement the other players we have and potentially make for better overall chemistry.

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21 hours ago, Manatee-X said:

Ugh, just found out about this.  As a guy who just a few years ago would tape games to make sure I caught all 82, I honestly don't think I'm going to tune in to a single match this year.  I'm done.  What's there to watch?  What's there to hope for?  Maybe it sounds like I'm being dramatic or whatever, but it's simply the truth.  I've got better things to do with my time than be frustrated by a GM trading away anybody who's fun to watch in nonsense, sell-low deals.  Maybe I'm too much in my own head, but I can't watch this train wreck of a hockey team play without getting annoyed at how it got to be this way and where it's (not) going from here.

You can look at this trade a dozen ways, lots of which are spelled out in this thread, and Bergevin comes out looking like a fool in all of them.  But the worst to me is his utter and complete certainty that this path of grit > skill that he's got us on is the right way to build a team despite all evidence to the contrary.  The hockey world is near-unanimous in their criticism of these sorts of moves, but he's still there giving the same useless press conferences about how much character the new guy has while offering NO hockey-related reasons for doing what he does.  Newsflash: if every trade you make ends up in a press conference that feels more like an argument, maybe you're doing something wrong.  Meanwhile this team plays worse year after year after year as we slowly bleed our talent away.

Bergevin is obviously looking at the game of hockey and seeing something nobody else is seeing.  When you put yourself out there by going all-in against the conventional wisdom like this you're either going to reveal yourself as a genius or an idiot.  And I think the results so far speak for themselves...

 

11 hours ago, CANADIENS27 said:

Bergevin says he understands the fans' frustration but they don't know Max.  A lot of fans seem to be saying otherwise. 

Bergevin has lost the benefit of the doubt a long time ago. He's told us how fans will love Drouin and that he can be a good center. He's told us Weber will make us forget PK and that he's a better asset. He's lied to us on tons of things, so I don't believe him on any of this either. Let Domi prove us otherwise, but no benefit of the doubt.

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

My initial reaction to this trade was "yuck".

But having had time to absorb it ... while I would have liked to get a bit more for Chucky, I don't think we got totally robbed either.

Chucky has a better overall offensive ceiling yes, but Domi brings almost as good potential (102pts last year on in OHL).     They're two very different players ... Chucky drives the play by controlling the puck, Domi is a playmaker.    So I think the hope here is that Domi will be making plays to our shooters (Patches, Lehkonen, Sherbek, Gallagher) and our overall success will be higher.   Domi is also the much better two way player as well.     

So while I don't absolutely hate this trade, I'm not overly upset by it either .. I think Domi actually may complement the other players we have and potentially make for better overall chemistry.

The problem is that the trade can't be viewed in isolation. There's a reality that puts this trade in context. And her it is:

1. This team has sucked at scoring goals, and that's been the case for a while. You had two snipers on your team: MP and AG (And FWIW, Pacioretty has been brutal as a sniper on the PP). Both may be gone by the start of the year. We have other guys who can get goals by working for them, but we had two guys with real skill at shooting. You can't have an area of weakness on your team and then make it weaker by trading a true goal-scorer for another set-up man. Domi's a good passer, sure. So is Drouin. So is Hudon. So are Lehkonen and Danault. I'm not sure there was a need for another smaller winger who can pass but not score, and Domi (as a reminder) had 5 goals last year that weren't into an empty net. People talk about how Domi will help set up Pacioretty for more goals, but MP may be gone and even if he isn't, the two guys play the same position, so they won't be on the ice together.

2. This team didn't need wingers. They have tons of offensive wingers... Pacman, Drouin, Gallagher, Hudon, Scherbak, Lehkonen, Shaw, Galchenyuk before the trade, maybe Rychel... there are guys who can play the top 6-9 on the wing. We have no top 6 centers. We have no top pairing left-handed D men. If you're going to trade away AG or MP, you absolutely needed to address one of your flagrant holes with that trade. It didn't happen, just like it didn't happen with the Sergachev trade either. You can't just keep acquiring wingers and ignoring the fact you suck elsewhere. Now the defenders of the trade will say this is just the first move and there will be more to come, but we said this last year after the Drouin acquisition... the trade itself was not awful IF there was a follow-up deal to trade someone like Pacioretty/Galchenyuk/Gallagher for a center. But we didn't do that. There was no follow-up trade, and then to boot, we let Radulov and Markov walk for nothing and we traded Beaulieu and lost Emelin and ended up with no left side to our defence as well, which compounded the stupidity behind trading Sergachev without addressing a key need.

So nothing against Domi, just like nothing against Weber or Drouin. All three guys are welcome on my team any time and can be valuable assets. But I don't believe an aging past-prime defenceman is better than a Norris winner in his prime and I don't believe two small playmaking wingers are better than a potential top pairing LHD and 30-goal scorer.

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12 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Do you know William Karlsson, his first three seaons in the league he scored 3 goals, 9 goals and 6 goals. That would mean Alex would have scored 17, 21, and 11 more goals then him. If Vegas offered Karlsson for Galchenyk  straight up would you take that deal? 

Look its no secret i was not a Galchenyk fan. And i thought if you traded him or packaged him in a trade it should be for a center or top pairing LHD dee. 

Dont base your perception of Domi based on 3 seasons. Also unlike Galchenyk he knows there is a Neutral Zone and Defensive Zone in a hockey game :)

This is exactly how Bergevin thinks and here is the problem:

Lets say Domi defies all expectations and scores 80 points next year.   Lets say Galchenyuk scores 50.   Bergevin is a genius, right?  Wrong.

I think if you polled 30 GMs, 28+ of them would say Galchenyuk > Domi.   So if you're Marc Bergevin & you think "wow, that Max Domi is great, we need to get him" - you do that but you dont make a trade at 75¢ on the dollar.   You trade Galchenyuk for Domi + Capobianco   Or  Domi + MacInnis    or at very least Domi  + Arizona's 2nd round pick. 

1 for 1 we are losers of this trade by a fair amount.  That is the problem.  What they each do now, is the future but in the present we just got burned (again) in a totally stupid and pointless trade. 

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

This is exactly how Bergevin thinks and here is the problem:

Lets say Domi defies all expectations and scores 80 points next year.   Lets say Galchenyuk scores 50.   Bergevin is a genius, right?  Wrong.

I think if you polled 30 GMs, 28+ of them would say Galchenyuk > Domi.   So if you're Marc Bergevin & you think "wow, that Max Domi is great, we need to get him" - you do that but you dont make a trade at 75¢ on the dollar.   You trade Galchenyuk for Domi + Capobianco   Or  Domi + MacInnis    or at very least Domi  + Arizona's 2nd round pick. 

1 for 1 we are losers of this trade by a fair amount.  That is the problem.  What they each do now, is the future but in the present we just got burned (again) in a totally stupid and pointless trade. 

Exactly. great post. thats exactly the problem. And I dont know how we can all break this down rationally on a chat forum and somehow these decisions keep getting made by paid professionals. 

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22 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Do you know William Karlsson, his first three seaons in the league he scored 3 goals, 9 goals and 6 goals. That would mean Alex would have scored 17, 21, and 11 more goals then him. If Vegas offered Karlsson for Galchenyk  straight up would you take that deal? 

Look its no secret i was not a Galchenyk fan. And i thought if you traded him or packaged him in a trade it should be for a center or top pairing LHD dee. 

Dont base your perception of Domi based on 3 seasons. Also unlike Galchenyk he knows there is a Neutral Zone and Defensive Zone in a hockey game :)

Okay. Don't base your perception of Karlsson on 1 season.

Do you think that because Karlsson busted out in 2017-2018, Max Domi will bust out with Montreal? I don't really see how picking Karlsson and using him as example has anything to do with the Domi/Galchenyuk trade and what it means for Montreal moving forward.

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12 hours ago, jeff33 said:

Exactly. great post. thats exactly the problem. And I dont know how we can all break this down rationally on a chat forum and somehow these decisions keep getting made by paid professionals. 

It is almost impossible to believe.   I mean its one thing if you're a powerhouse team with tons of depth but we have huge holes in our roster.  Galchenyuk was one of the best trade pieces we had & we used him to get...another left wing who, probably 100% of gms not named Marc Bergevin would say at this moment - june 2018 - is inferior to the player we traded away.  Thats bad asset management.

Its pretty obvious Galchenyuk has been on the block for some time (even as far back as when MT was the coach it sounds like) so why keep his value down? Last year, with 20 games to go with half our natural centres out and with CJ trying everyone but my dog at centre, why does Galchenyuk toil on the wing? DLR on the top line? Byron at C?  I mean come on.  Now we know that Gachenyuk even specifically asked to be played at centre after the injuries and the coaching staff said no.   How much could we have gotten for him if we had played him at centre for the last 15 games & he scored 15 points during that time?   We'll never know because, you know, we're bad at asset management. 

 

What a farse this team has become.   You cant help but feel bad for guys like Price, Pacioretty, Gallagher - and others - who sit and watch their prime years getting eaten up by a management team that would do worse than EA sports randomly-generated trades at building this team.  Someone tell me when this is over. 

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13 minutes ago, maas_art said:

(...)

What a farse this team has become.   You cant help but feel bad for guys like Price, Pacioretty, Gallagher - and others - who sit and watch their prime years getting eaten up by a management team that would do worse than EA sports randomly-generated trades at building this team.  Someone tell me when this is over. 

I don’t know if this has been addressed yet but the above point resonates with something that’s been bugging me for a while. 

For all his talk about bad attitudes, MB doesn’t seem to recognize how much his decision-making and management practices are probably (certainly?) partly (completely?) to blame for any attitude problems. 

Leadership starts at the top. My current work environment seems remarkably similar to the Habs’ right now. Questionable decisions at the upper levels that consistently lead to making my and my coworkers’ jobs increasingly harder. I love my job but when management policies actively makes us less capable to carry out our organizational goals, that love isn’t enough to keep me from becoming disgruntled.

I’d find it difficult to consistently put my best foot forward if every decision made makes us weaker as a team and then have the blame dropped on our shoulders when the inevitable happens. I don’t care how much money someone is getting paid, when front office actively takes you farther from our stated goals of winning, one has to wonder how much blame-taking a player can shoulder before realizing forces are against their chances of success  

There was an article in the Gazette, can’t find the link, about how all this is now on Molson’s shoulders. This is true but he doesn’t personally own the team, does he? You’d think that there are some shareholders that could collectively challenge Molson’s authority if he can’t make the proper decisions.

A presiding president that has lowered the value of the product seems to me a very poor choice for the job. It’s only going to get tougher to fill the seats .

Either way, this team is a mess and it can be solved very simply. Namely: fire Bergevin and/or replace Molson. Someone up above needs to take the responsibility for the culture of disappointment that they themselves created. 

Whatever happened to “it’s on me”? If that was ever the case, the responsibility would be on someone else by now. 

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