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Montreal acquires Steve Mason, Joel Armia, and picks


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7 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

About 1.4 mill for 2 years i believe somebody mentioned. Not a huge deal i guess. We'll see what they do with the big kid on RW.

true but its the pronciple of it... we could have carried it all this year. Who knows, we might need that 1.4 million next year

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2 minutes ago, habsisme said:

true but its the pronciple of it... we could have carried it all this year. Who knows, we might need that 1.4 million next year

With Marc (trades are hard) Bergevin at the helm, i doubt it becomes an issue. 

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The cap hit for the next two seasons is not a big deal. We'll have space because it's unlikely we'll be signing any major names to big contracts in the next few seasons. The real positive here is the acquisition of Armia and the draft choices. I would like to see more deals like this in early July.

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2 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

The cap hit for the next two seasons is not a big deal. We'll have space because it's unlikely we'll be signing any major names to big contracts in the next few seasons. The real positive here is the acquisition of Armia and the draft choices. I would like to see more deals like this in early July.

I'm with you 100% on that.  This was a breath of fresh air compared to other early summer trades MB has made in recent seasons.

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On 6/26/2018 at 9:00 PM, BigTed3 said:

So here's an example of how to exploit another team... the Jets have 24M in cap space, but they need to re-sign Hellebuyck, Trouba, Morrisey, and add 5 more forwards. it will likely cost them something like 6.5M for Hellebuyck, 6M for Trouba, and 4M for Morrisey. Even if they get hometown discounts, they're going to have maybe 10M to sign 5 forwards. They supposedly want to bring back Stastny, who likely clocks in around 5M. So they're going to need to dump someone. Rumors out of Winnipeg are that the Jets want to trade Steve Mason and his 4.1M contract, which expires after this season. Perfect. Here we are. We'll take Mason, but in exchange, you flip us Jack Roslovic or Logan Stanley or Sami Niku. or you trade us your 1st round pick next year. We take a cap penalty for a year, we also get a young asset as compensation. That's the deal Marc Bergevin needs to be making.

I like the deal, obviously. This is exactly the type of thing I suggested a few days ago. Would have been nice to get a slightly better prospect, but Armia is a decent 3rd line winger in his own right. We buy out Mason and the picks are likely negligible (will probably be a late 4th rounder anyways), as is Bourque. So the deal is basically taking Armia in exchange for an added cap hit of 1.37M for the next two years. It's a win.

That said, the Habs continue to stockpile wingers without addressing other needs. At some point, MB has to turn some of those wingers into centers and D men. We have Pacioretty, Drouin, Lehkonen, Domi, Hudon, Gallagher, Shaw, Byron, Scherbak, and now Armia are all potential top 9 wingers. Even if JD plays center, you don't need 9 other guys to fill 6 spots. Something's got to give. Shaw and Byron are both injured to start the year, but when everyone's healthy, I don't really see the Habs looking to trade Lehkonen, Armia, Domi, Hudon, or Gallagher. I wonder if this intensifies the efforts to deal Max or if it makes a guy like Shaw expendable.

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11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I like the deal, obviously. This is exactly the type of thing I suggested a few days ago. Would have been nice to get a slightly better prospect, but Armia is a decent 3rd line winger in his own right. We buy out Mason and the picks are likely negligible (will probably be a late 4th rounder anyways), as is Bourque. So the deal is basically taking Armia in exchange for an added cap hit of 1.37M for the next two years. It's a win.

That said, the Habs continue to stockpile wingers without addressing other needs. At some point, MB has to turn some of those wingers into centers and D men. We have Pacioretty, Drouin, Lehkonen, Domi, Hudon, Gallagher, Shaw, Byron, Scherbak, and now Armia are all potential top 9 wingers. Even if JD plays center, you don't need 9 other guys to fill 6 spots. Something's got to give. Shaw and Byron are both injured to start the year, but when everyone's healthy, I don't really see the Habs looking to trade Lehkonen, Armia, Domi, Hudon, or Gallagher. I wonder if this intensifies the efforts to deal Max or if it makes a guy like Shaw expendable.

Please make it be Shaw! i have nothing against the guy but we really have no need for a guy like him in our lineup.

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26 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Please make it be Shaw! i have nothing against the guy but we really have no need for a guy like him in our lineup.

He played much better last year and under Julien in particular than under Therrien. His contract is a touch much, but I can live with him if he plays disciplined hockey. I really like him on a 3rd line with Lehkonen and Danault. What I'm less sure of is how he and others fit in with so many wingers.

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This type of deal makes perfect sense, although from some previous similar deals I thought the return would be a bit better (at least a 2nd rounder). Although I admit I don't know much about Armia, but sounds like more of the same (a solid bottom-six winger), not sure if there's any untapped upside there.

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12 minutes ago, Graeme-1 said:

This type of deal makes perfect sense, although from some previous similar deals I thought the return would be a bit better (at least a 2nd rounder). Although I admit I don't know much about Armia, but sounds like more of the same (a solid bottom-six winger), not sure if there's any untapped upside there.

I really liked Armia in his draft year. Was a player I had on my watch list and I think he went right before our pick. Good size, decent skater, good shot. He's got a lot of the right tools. Doesn't look all that fast but he covers ground because of his size and he has a smooth stride; for that reason, his first step is maybe just a bit slow but once he gets going he skates well. Just needs to put it all together.

He also played a lot of 4th line in his time with the Jets, mainly with guys like Adam Lowry and Mathieu Perreault and Andrew Copp, so not unreasonable to think he could produce more with better linemates and more ice time. A good comparison for Habs fans could be a guy like Rene Bourque, but with much better defensive ability. I'm optimistic he could be a 20-goal scorer if given the chance.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

That said, the Habs continue to stockpile wingers without addressing other needs. At some point, MB has to turn some of those wingers into centers and D men. We have Pacioretty, Drouin, Lehkonen, Domi, Hudon, Gallagher, Shaw, Byron, Scherbak, and now Armia are all potential top 9 wingers. Even if JD plays center, you don't need 9 other guys to fill 6 spots. Something's got to give. Shaw and Byron are both injured to start the year, but when everyone's healthy, I don't really see the Habs looking to trade Lehkonen, Armia, Domi, Hudon, or Gallagher. I wonder if this intensifies the efforts to deal Max or if it makes a guy like Shaw expendable.

This. 

I have a gut feeling that MB is planning on using Domi at centre.   I know he hasnt played a ton there in the NHL but he did take 412 faceoffs last year.  Thats about what Eller took his last year with us, which, if i rememeber correctly was 50/50 wing and centre. So he (Domi) did play quite a bit of centre last season.  

I dont mind trying Domi there, and with his defensive game he may actually do ok under Julien.    I certainly dont love  Drouin-Domi-Danault-DLR  (Holy Aliteration)  but considering I dont think we'll be very good this year, maybe it will allow us time to evaluate players.    I also wouldnt mind trying Hudon there. 

It sure seems like we should be trading for some centres but one thing seems to be clear:  We are drafting projects, we are taking on salary dumps, we are trading for picks... this is a team in the middle of a rebuild, whether Bergevin wants to admit it or not.  That means we should be shopping Weber, Price, Petry and others.  Will we? 

 

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11 minutes ago, maas_art said:

This. 

I have a gut feeling that MB is planning on using Domi at centre.   I know he hasnt played a ton there in the NHL but he did take 412 faceoffs last year.  Thats about what Eller took his last year with us, which, if i rememeber correctly was 50/50 wing and centre. So he (Domi) did play quite a bit of centre last season.  

I dont mind trying Domi there, and with his defensive game he may actually do ok under Julien.    I certainly dont love  Drouin-Domi-Danault-DLR  (Holy Aliteration)  but considering I dont think we'll be very good this year, maybe it will allow us time to evaluate players.    I also wouldnt mind trying Hudon there. 

It sure seems like we should be trading for some centres but one thing seems to be clear:  We are drafting projects, we are taking on salary dumps, we are trading for picks... this is a team in the middle of a rebuild, whether Bergevin wants to admit it or not.  That means we should be shopping Weber, Price, Petry and others.  Will we? 

 

Agreed on trying guys out at center, whether it's Domi or Hudon or Shaw or whoever else. Hudon's actually stated he would feel comfortable playing center if the team asked him too. The concern I have is when you look at our middle, it's a ton of really small players. Not a lot of guys who are strong enough to match up with a Thornton or a Malkin or a Scheifele or so on. So there's work to do there. As I've always said, I'm fine with having smaller skilled players, but there has to be balance. Not all your players can be smaller guys, so I don't think you can go in with two of Drouin, Domi, and Hudon as your top 6 centers. It'll leave us with match-up problems.

I think you're also right about the secret re-build. The other thing this tells us is that Bergevin has either been given reassurance about his job or all his moves are being approved, and I'd say it's more likely to be the former, given Hands-Off Molson is at the helm. Bergevin isn't acting like a GM who wants to save his job this year, he's acting like a guy who knows this team is going to be bad this season and is okay with it. Which is fine, maybe good even. Bad that Bergevin isn't being shown the door but at least a first hint that maybe he gets that we can't just plow ahead with our current core. If only he wasn't so sold on grit and jam and attitude now...

MB and GM kind of hinted after the season ended that they might be looking to move on from the current core, but I wasn't sure he would act on that. I still think he's going to keep his veterans intact (minus maybe Pacioretty) this season and then perhaps make a move to dismantle more when he thinks Poehling and JK and company are closer. That said, I think the guy it's most imperative to move on from is Weber. I think Pacioretty, if we move Weber and extend him, will still score goals for a few years. I think Price can rebound, albeit I hate his contract. I really feel like Weber's play is going to drop off again within the next 2-3 seasons and we're already seeing the wear and tear on him from the way he plays. Big minutes, big hits. It's harder to maintain that style of game than the game played by a finesse player like Pacioretty. I don't see Weber's value rising any more, albeit the market might open up once his salary drops off a bit. I think now's the time to move him (either this off-season or next at the latest) and try to cash in on teams desperate for D men, especially with all the big names re-signing and the only big name left (Karlsson) being held for a king's ransom (most teams don't want to meet Ottawa's demand of having to take Ryan too). So someone's going to see Weber as the most viable option. He could easily help a team get over the hump to a Cup. He's easily still a top pairing guy. But for where we are, I'd rather turn that into a couple of 1st rounders or prospects. I'd have taken the Isles' picks of Wahlstrom and Dobson for Weber, for example. Get something now while you still can.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

He also played a lot of 4th line in his time with the Jets, mainly with guys like Adam Lowry and Mathieu Perreault and Andrew Copp, so not unreasonable to think he could produce more with better linemates and more ice time..

Better linemates in Montreal than he had in Winnipeg ??

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I’ve gotta believe that management/molson have agreed to rebuild ala TO and Edmonton, which is to try to get the generational type player. Toronto got matthews and although they sucked for a long time winning that lottery changed the losing and ended their rebuild, same with the oil and mcdavid. Once you win the lottery and the generational player the rebuild ends

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45 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Better linemates in Montreal than he had in Winnipeg ??

Absolutely. Look at Armia's linemates over the past two years. He spent most of his time on the 4th line with Lowry, Copp, Perreault, Hendricks, etc. He shouldn't be a 4th liner here, and he may even get into the top 6. So if you give him players like Drouin, Pacioretty, Domi, Lehkonen, etc. and if you give him more ice and some PP time, then yes, his production has a chance of improving. Do you think he's going to be a 4th liner here?

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22 minutes ago, booboo_mtl said:

I’ve gotta believe that management/molson have agreed to rebuild ala TO and Edmonton, which is to try to get the generational type player. Toronto got matthews and although they sucked for a long time winning that lottery changed the losing and ended their rebuild, same with the oil and mcdavid. Once you win the lottery and the generational player the rebuild ends

I hope you're right but I haven't heard anything about trading Price or Weber and that just has to be a part of any rebuild

 

5 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Absolutely. Look at Armia's linemates over the past two years. He spent most of his time on the 4th line with Lowry, Copp, Perreault, Hendricks, etc. He shouldn't be a 4th liner here, and he may even get into the top 6. So if you give him players like Drouin, Pacioretty, Domi, Lehkonen, etc. and if you give him more ice and some PP time, then yes, his production has a chance of improving. Do you think he's going to be a 4th liner here?

I agree, he will get more ice time here. He isn't a bottom 6, it seems to me he has at least the potential to be a middle 6 type guys. And he's a right handed shot. Anyway we lost nothing for him and the picks 

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27 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Probably not but this team is crap not matter how we try to line the players up

I'll put it this way... I think he's a more talented offensive player than Andrew Shaw, and Shaw was given plenty of PP time here. If they give Armia a shot, he's better than some of the other guys we've employed.

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21 minutes ago, jwlk said:

anyone consider there's no secret rebuild, MB just really likes Armia, seems his type of bottom 4 guy, this whole deal could have been just to get him, would you be suprised

Definitely possible MB is just all over the place and has no real plan. That's been the case thus far. But if he was in win-now mode to save his job, he'd have drafted Zadina or Hughes over JK, and he wouldn't have given away free cap space for the next two years just to get late draft picks and Armia.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Definitely possible MB is just all over the place and has no real plan. That's been the case thus far. But if he was in win-now mode to save his job, he'd have drafted Zadina or Hughes over JK, and he wouldn't have given away free cap space for the next two years just to get late draft picks and Armia.

1000x to the bolded part.

The deal today was very telling to me. Not just because of the cap relief but to then buy him out... if it were just this year then you could say, ok he knows what he has committed this year, but next year too? I know that its not a ton of money but you have to figure if you're thinking about trading Pacioretty, and maybe some other vets like Weber, Petry etc - for young players - you know you'll have a lot of cap space.

The only player id be surprised to see traded right now is Price. I just think MB has hitched his horse to him so much and he probably thinks that if there's any position you can play well into your 30s its goal.   But, on the flipside, it sure sounded like him and Molson were talking about Price when they referred to "attitude" so who knows. 

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