Larry-Launstein-Jr

State Of The Habs 2018-19

1,456 posts in this topic

10 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Fortunate to walk out of Chicago with two points last night. Kudos to Price and our PK,, because we were for the most part outplayed after our early start. Something needs to happen soon with our PP if making the playoffs is the plan. A team with the numbers we have on the PP, has no right being in a playoff position. The roof is bound to collapse if things don't change.

So here's the thing: to start the year, we played lights-out possession hockey and dominated offensively. But our goaltending was brutal. Now we've gone to playing lower-event hockey and losing possession a bit more, yet Price has been solid for the past few weeks. But at least at 5v5, we've shown we have the elements to be able to score goals and to be able to get goaltending. So the pieces of the puzzle are there, if we can put them together.

So what worked when? Well the offence worked better when Deslauriers was injured and we were able to run through 4 lines. Byron and Armia going down hurt us, because we really saw the impact the lack of depth had when we were rolling the likes of Deslauriers-Peca on the 4th line and Agostino on the 3rd. I think Chaput has really helped to stabilize that 4th line again and make up for how bad Deslauriers is, and Agostino has settled into a role on the 4th line, where he's more apt. The other thing was the defence... when Schlemko was injured and Alzner was in the pressbox, we moved the puck a heck of a lot better. When those two made their way back into the line-up, we saw a drop-off. Now Alzner's gone, but we still haven't seen the offence rebound quite as much yet. Weber definitely helps but he's also not a guy who skates the puck up ice, so we're still lacking a bit there, and because he's on the right side, he's basically eaten up some of Petry's extra minutes and taken Juulsen's spot. He hasn't fixed the fact the left side is still brutal.

The other thing you mentioned is special teams. The PP has been awful. Even when it's scored a few goals, those goals have been flukes or they've been off set plays from the face-off. Few and far between have been the games where our PP has shown creativity and generated constant pressure. I think our PP numbers actually flatter us, because if you just watch it, it's brutal. Disorganized, predictable, and often times, we simply fail to set anything up in the zone or get on loose pucks to win possession. So that definitely has to change, and I'd start with the fact the personnel we're using needs to change. That group has failed over and over. I'd personally start by throwing Weber-Petry out as my two D men. Use two righties, with Weber on the off-side so that he can use his shot from the middle of the ice and Petry as the guy who can feed him cross ice. Up front, I'd use Domi on the right wing and tell him to crank it. He actually has an outstanding shot and he needs to be a trigger man because we really don't have too many other guys. I'd put Kotkaniemi on the left half-wall rotating down low behind the net to be a distributor, and I'd have Tatar in the slot/crease area. They need to try something new there though, regardless. It's the area we have the most room to improve to impact outcomes of games.

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On 12/10/2018 at 4:02 PM, caperns61 said:

 I was and still am a Subban Fan. 

I believe my take on Weber was a little clouded because of how much I loved PK. I was looking for everything wrong with Weber just to justify how silly the trade was. However now that Subban has been gone for over 2 seasons and the fact Weber has not played in over a year.

Well watching Weber on the back end since his return is a thing of beauty. He can shoot a rocket, He is so strong on the wall, his skating is not Subban skating but he is a big man who can get to areas quicker than I gave him credit for. Even his passing is better then I remember when he first arrived. He also simplifies the plays which is a coaches dream. He is a true number one deeman and now not letting my love of PK get in the way. I can see why NHL coaches love this Player so much. 

I do wish he was only 28 or 29 though :(

Oh bye the way I do still wish we had Subban as well :(

 

 

When the trade went down I said i would have gladly traded ANYONE on the blueline not named Subban to get Weber. But trading one for the other was just dumb.  Like you, id rather have PK but Shea Weber is no slouch. 

There was a play the other night in Chicago where he was 1 on 1 with the rushing winger.  We've seen 2 Habs dman (Mete and Reilly) get beaten with the exact same play this year (both resulting in goals) and for a split second the thought is "oh man if they got beaten by the forward, slow Weber will definitely" but even though he was outmatched in speed, his positioning was spot on & his super upper-body strength allowed him to hold the forward off with his arm as he used his stick to play the puck.  It was really a clinic on how good positional hockey can be as effective as speed.

If they were the same age, i would have been fine with the trade. Its Price for Hasek - two totally different but equally excellent players.   But that 4 years man.

On the bright side, Shea just got a year of rest & honestly so far the new knee makes him look a couple years younger.

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Nonexistent goaltending, penalty kill, defense, offense.  

 

 

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PK let up 4 goals in 4 occasions last night. PP went 0 for 1 and gave up a shorty. Just about as bad a special team performance as you can get. This really needs to be sorted out.

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

When the trade went down I said i would have gladly traded ANYONE on the blueline not named Subban to get Weber. But trading one for the other was just dumb.  Like you, id rather have PK but Shea Weber is no slouch. 

There was a play the other night in Chicago where he was 1 on 1 with the rushing winger.  We've seen 2 Habs dman (Mete and Reilly) get beaten with the exact same play this year (both resulting in goals) and for a split second the thought is "oh man if they got beaten by the forward, slow Weber will definitely" but even though he was outmatched in speed, his positioning was spot on & his super upper-body strength allowed him to hold the forward off with his arm as he used his stick to play the puck.  It was really a clinic on how good positional hockey can be as effective as speed.

If they were the same age, i would have been fine with the trade. Its Price for Hasek - two totally different but equally excellent players.   But that 4 years man.

On the bright side, Shea just got a year of rest & honestly so far the new knee makes him look a couple years younger.

So I was having similar thoughts to caperns, its been enough time that my rage goggles have come off, and Im willing to give out some credit. This coming the day after Weber got torched multiple times getting caught high up in the play and being too slow to come back haha...but lets lay it out

 Subban was better than Weber at the time we made the trade, and its not a comparison anymore, hes head and shoulders better at this point, and its not even a debate. That was a stupid trade made for entirely personal reasons, and we lost it. That being said:

Weber has 2 elements still to his game which are truly top notch. 1. His perimeter around the net is special. You go in behind our net, or cut in front, or anything in the little circle around the net, you lose and its his puck.  2. that shot is ridiculous, Ive never seen someone blow a knob off a goalie stick. Hes missing the net like crazy right now, but he will get in a groove and start burying a lot of those. Its possibly still the hardest shot in the league

 

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

PK let up 4 goals in 4 occasions last night. PP went 0 for 1 and gave up a shorty. Just about as bad a special team performance as you can get. This really needs to be sorted out.

In fairness to the PK its been pretty good most nights.   PP has been brutal all year. 

 

40 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

So I was having similar thoughts to caperns, its been enough time that my rage goggles have come off, and Im willing to give out some credit. This coming the day after Weber got torched multiple times getting caught high up in the play and being too slow to come back haha...but lets lay it out

Haha. Well my post was based on the games up to last nights' - which i didnt see (thankfully by the sound of it!! :D)

 

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1. Starting Niemi .....he should never be playing that game. Price is hot , he had a day between and after, 10 mily plays.

2. Not starting Reilly.....its his old team and aside from that, hes a guy who should be playing regularly and working out the kinks in his game with live experience. hes a guy that fits our team identity.  instead I gotta look at blenmko out there failing all night

3.  Im getting really really tired of seeing shaw and especially agostino on the PP. can we get serious please ?  just like earlier in the year with armia. julien and therrien are the same with this , they get some stupid idea about a guy playing in a certain spot and they will just let it fail 10 million times and still never change it. 

 

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4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

So I was having similar thoughts to caperns, its been enough time that my rage goggles have come off, and Im willing to give out some credit. This coming the day after Weber got torched multiple times getting caught high up in the play and being too slow to come back haha...but lets lay it out

 Subban was better than Weber at the time we made the trade, and its not a comparison anymore, hes head and shoulders better at this point, and its not even a debate. That was a stupid trade made for entirely personal reasons, and we lost it. That being said:

Weber has 2 elements still to his game which are truly top notch. 1. His perimeter around the net is special. You go in behind our net, or cut in front, or anything in the little circle around the net, you lose and its his puck.  2. that shot is ridiculous, Ive never seen someone blow a knob off a goalie stick. Hes missing the net like crazy right now, but he will get in a groove and start burying a lot of those. Its possibly still the hardest shot in the league

 

Gte one thing straight I love Subban. In Fairness to Weber though, He does not get to play with the likes of Mattias Ekholm or Roman Josi, In all honesty, other then Weber, there is not one defensman on our team who could make the Nashville defense core maybe Petry but he would be behind Ellis and Subban.  We have two old guys who should not be on the NHL, Benn and Schlemko,, we have two castoffs in Rielly and Kulak, We have two young guys in  Mete and Jullsen that have promise but in Nashville would likely be trade chips or playing in the AHL. If you swap out Weber and Subban right now Subban would be getting torched most nights on the back end as well. Not because Subban or Weber is bad. Its what they have to play with.

Edited by caperns61
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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

1. Starting Niemi .....he should never be playing that game. Price is hot , he had a day between and after, 10 mily plays.

2. Not starting Reilly.....its his old team and aside from that, hes a guy who should be playing regularly and working out the kinks in his game with live experience. hes a guy that fits our team identity.  instead I gotta look at blenmko out there failing all night

3.  Im getting really really tired of seeing shaw and especially agostino on the PP. can we get serious please ?  just like earlier in the year with armia. julien and therrien are the same with this , they get some stupid idea about a guy playing in a certain spot and they will just let it fail 10 million times and still never change it. 

 

1. Niemi is just not very good, but that being said, you can't play Price 75 times a year. The back-up needs to be able to play one in every 8 games at a minimum. Right now, Niemi hasn't shown he can do that. I'd favor replacing him with Lindgren, and at least then you'd be developing a player for the future who either helps you or becomes a trade asset.

2. Agreed with Reilly... he would have been motivated for this game. No reason to opt for Bemko over him so often.

3. The PP is in shambles, but at this point I don't think it's on 1-2 guys. Agostino has actually produced a few points on the PP. But that being said, there's just something wrong with the fundamental set-up of the PP. The same thing happened last year until they stuck Galchenyuk on the right side between the point and half-wall. At that point, you had a sharpshooter who was scoring and who was also drawing defenders away from other guys. We simply don't have a guy who has shown he can do that on the PP yet. Of all the players we have, Domi has really shown the best shot and fastest release, so he's the guy I'd throw into that spot. I'd put Weber in that spot on the other side (left side of the ice) and Petry at the blue line to be able to feed Weber. I think that's the start of the set-up we should be using, and then we need to find two guys to play down low.

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20 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Gte one thing straight I love Subban. In Fairness to Weber though, He does not get to play with the likes of Mattias Ekholm or Roman Josi, In all honesty, other then Weber, there is not one defensman on our team who could make the Nashville defense core maybe Petry but he would be behind Ellis and Subban.  We have two old guys who should not be on the NHL, Benn and Schlemko,, we have two castoffs in Rielly and Kulak, We have two young guys in  Mete and Jullsen that have promise but in Nashville would likely be trade chips or playing in the AHL. If you swap out Weber and Subban right now Subban would be getting torched most nights on the back end as well. Not because Subban or Weber is bad. Its what they have to play with.

Sure, its definitely fair to say life is a lot harder playing for the habs brutal d corps. Just to be clear I was speaking about a situation in particular where he occasionally gets torched which happened a handful of times against Minny, where if he gets caught playing high up the ice its over because hes too slow to get back, which has nothing to do with who hes playing with. 

Anyway a team needs 3 legit skilled dman at minimum to be a cup contender (yeah yeah I know the pens managed) so its very fair to say he could use a lot more help than this biway clearance bin collection

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19 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

1. Niemi is just not very good, but that being said, you can't play Price 75 times a year. The back-up needs to be able to play one in every 8 games at a minimum. Right now, Niemi hasn't shown he can do that. I'd favor replacing him with Lindgren, and at least then you'd be developing a player for the future who either helps you or becomes a trade asset.

2. Agreed with Reilly... he would have been motivated for this game. No reason to opt for Bemko over him so often.

3. The PP is in shambles, but at this point I don't think it's on 1-2 guys. Agostino has actually produced a few points on the PP. But that being said, there's just something wrong with the fundamental set-up of the PP. The same thing happened last year until they stuck Galchenyuk on the right side between the point and half-wall. At that point, you had a sharpshooter who was scoring and who was also drawing defenders away from other guys. We simply don't have a guy who has shown he can do that on the PP yet. Of all the players we have, Domi has really shown the best shot and fastest release, so he's the guy I'd throw into that spot. I'd put Weber in that spot on the other side (left side of the ice) and Petry at the blue line to be able to feed Weber. I think that's the start of the set-up we should be using, and then we need to find two guys to play down low.

 normally would agree, things being contextually what they were (riding a win streak, trying to hang onto a playoff spot, price being hot, not a back to back on either end) I expected him to start. anyway I think your Lindgren idea trumps everything, I feel like the honeymoon is over for Niemi. every start hes made this year its like guaranteed 2 bad goals at least.

as for the PP, what I'm seeing really is we absolutely stink at gaining the zone and getting set up. I dont feel like we are that bad once there, although the results are pretty bad.  with your idea drouin could move down to the half wall on the off wing and be a shot option from there...

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IMO, the team we saw  tonite/last night, is the team that we should ice every game. Having said that, I'm not sure where Armia (when he comes back), can fit in. Who would come out? 

 

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32 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

IMO, the team we saw  tonite/last night, is the team that we should ice every game. Having said that, I'm not sure where Armia (when he comes back), can fit in. Who would come out? 

 

Armia, Hudon and Mete are all guys who can stake a claim to getting time on the roster yet.  Schlemko and DLo should never come back in.  Benn should come out for Mete.  No idea who you swap at forward if every one is healthy but Hudon Agostino and Peca probably would be the 3 id rotate.  Armia should have a safe spot as should Chaput at this point probably. 

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11 hours ago, maas_art said:

Armia, Hudon and Mete are all guys who can stake a claim to getting time on the roster yet.  Schlemko and DLo should never come back in.  Benn should come out for Mete.  No idea who you swap at forward if every one is healthy but Hudon Agostino and Peca probably would be the 3 id rotate.  Armia should have a safe spot as should Chaput at this point probably. 

Agreed on Deslauriers and Schlemko. I really don't see how you anyone can argue they shouldn't be demoted to the AHL when we're fully healthy.

Ideally, I think the 4th line would be Hudon-Chaput-Armia, but Agostino has played well of late, so hard to write him off too.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Agreed on Deslauriers and Schlemko. I really don't see how you anyone can argue they shouldn't be demoted to the AHL when we're fully healthy.

Ideally, I think the 4th line would be Hudon-Chaput-Armia, but Agostino has played well of late, so hard to write him off too.

Agreed.  I think both Agostino and Chaput have earned their promotions & even though they dont have the same skillset as a guy like Hudon I can live with them over him if there's something the coach really sees as problematic with Hudon.   Dlo has neither going for him - he's not skilled, he's not earned a spot & to me he's been given that spot all year based on his reputation last season and the fact that he seems to be well liked.

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Agreed.  I think both Agostino and Chaput have earned their promotions & even though they dont have the same skillset as a guy like Hudon I can live with them over him if there's something the coach really sees as problematic with Hudon.   Dlo has neither going for him - he's not skilled, he's not earned a spot & to me he's been given that spot all year based on his reputation last season and the fact that he seems to be well liked.

 

And even last year, he had awful possession statistics and just rode an unsustainable shooting percentage. A lot of the fourth line's success was actually driven by Daniel Carr, but Deslauriers got the glory for finishing off some easy chances and for being a French guy who finished checks. He's done nothing this year to suggest he deserves to be in the NHL, especially over players like Hudon, Armia, Scherbak, and Agostino. This year, the 4th line was good early before the injuries to Armia and Byron and before Deslauriers came back, and then it has found its stride again since Chaput came up. Very little to do with Deslauriers.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

And even last year, he had awful possession statistics and just rode an unsustainable shooting percentage. A lot of the fourth line's success was actually driven by Daniel Carr, but Deslauriers got the glory for finishing off some easy chances and for being a French guy who finished checks. He's done nothing this year to suggest he deserves to be in the NHL, especially over players like Hudon, Armia, Scherbak, and Agostino. This year, the 4th line was good early before the injuries to Armia and Byron and before Deslauriers came back, and then it has found its stride again since Chaput came up. Very little to do with Deslauriers.

and yet we are going to lose Hudon to waivers because this guy is apparently indispensable

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Taking advantage of Carolina sloppy play last night.  

 

 

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We are having a pretty good year. yes so far/ Most of you said you were done with the Habs this year. For me they have provided me with some very entertaining hockey. Been a fan for a long time and will be one for many more. Do not care who used to be here. but will support the group that is here now. Definitely see the advantage to Deslaurier. one tough guy is not the or a problem. Hudon needs to earn a spot and continues to play sloppy hockey. Peca should be the guy lost on waivers if any.

Drouin is and has been great. why he gets such poor treatment is a mystery to me. 

Price needs to stop talking to media and play his game. He has a statement after every sub par performance. If he can keep his head in the game anything is possible.

From what I see in our prospects the future looks good. Lets all stop reading the Gazette and get behind OUR team.

 

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2 hours ago, tony5775 said:

We are having a pretty good year. yes so far/ Most of you said you were done with the Habs this year. For me they have provided me with some very entertaining hockey. Been a fan for a long time and will be one for many more. Do not care who used to be here. but will support the group that is here now. Definitely see the advantage to Deslaurier. one tough guy is not the or a problem. Hudon needs to earn a spot and continues to play sloppy hockey. Peca should be the guy lost on waivers if any.

Drouin is and has been great. why he gets such poor treatment is a mystery to me. 

Price needs to stop talking to media and play his game. He has a statement after every sub par performance. If he can keep his head in the game anything is possible.

From what I see in our prospects the future looks good. Lets all stop reading the Gazette and get behind OUR team.

 

On a few of your points:

- Agreed with you on Drouin, he's having a heck of a year with Domi (and now Shaw) on the first line. They need to do more on the PP, but they've been gold at ES.

- Agreed with you on prospects. Great depth at forward with Evans, Suzuki, Ikonen, Ylonen, Olofsson, Poehling, etc. all potentially making a push soon. D pool is lacking a bit after Brook and maybe Fleury.

- Hudon has been inconsistent but he's still been better than Deslauriers. My issue is that the former seems to sit for longer while the latter gets more chances but has done less. Peca is IMO better than Deslauriers too. I'm not against having some size in the line-up and I'd agree that our line-up is built around a lot of small players and not a ton of balance. But I also don't think Deslauriers has enough talent to be the guy in there to balance it out.

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On 12/13/2018 at 6:26 PM, jeff33 said:

Sure, its definitely fair to say life is a lot harder playing for the habs brutal d corps. Just to be clear I was speaking about a situation in particular where he occasionally gets torched which happened a handful of times against Minny, where if he gets caught playing high up the ice its over because hes too slow to get back, which has nothing to do with who hes playing with. 

Anyway a team needs 3 legit skilled dman at minimum to be a cup contender (yeah yeah I know the pens managed) so its very fair to say he could use a lot more help than this biway clearance bin collection

Did not know that. You are right though, He got torched again in the Carolina game as well. Caught flat footed. That happens all over the league though and even with the best deeman in the game. I seen a replay of Brent Burns a few games ago where a winger blew by him on the outside and scored as well. Stuff happens, No one is perfect. I still think Weber is a lot better then I gave him credit  for becuase of how i felt about Subban.

I think some of the mental mistakes happening over the last couple of games is the reality of not playing in over a year. It was all adrenaline when he came back. But as he settles in over the next 20 games I am sure his play will be better. I so Wish they would let Reilly play with Weber and Bring Mete back up and let him develop with Jullsen. Kulak, Benn, Schelmko with Petry in that order...

 

Edited by caperns61
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3 hours ago, caperns61 said:

Did not know that. You are right though, He got torched again in the Carolina game as well. Caught flat footed. That happens all over the league though and even with the best deeman in the game. I seen a replay of Brent Burns a few games ago where a winger blew by him on the outside and scored as well. Stuff happens, No one is perfect. I still think Weber is a lot better then I gave him credit  for becuase of how i felt about Subban.

I think some of the mental mistakes happening over the last couple of games is the reality of not playing in over a year. It was all adrenaline when he came back. But as he settles in over the next 20 games I am sure his play will be better. I so Wish they would let Reilly play with Weber and Bring Mete back up and let him develop with Jullsen. Kulak, Benn, Schelmko with Petry in that order...

 

Im so with you on the Reilly point, I think thats internally far and away our best option.  To tie it in, if theres a knock on Weber its his skating and Reilly has the wheels to cover for him and let him hang back. Plus, when he's on his game, like he was last game, he is genuinely impactful and I think being paired with Weber and having him in his ear would be fantastic

 

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A chance to solidify our WC spot tomorrow vs the Bruins. They lost to Buffalo tonight and remain one point behind us with equal games played. It's a big one.

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