Larry-Launstein-Jr

State Of The Habs 2018-19

1,825 posts in this topic

11 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I still think that line-up is pretty bad. Nothing to say yet whether Nylander can step into a 1C role, he's been protected in the Leafs line-up and hasn't had to take on the top dog spot. and then going down the rest of the center ice position, Danault (ideally a 3C), Plekanec (ideally a 4C), and DLR (a 4C at best) are all likely to be asked to do more than they're capable of. Even with Nylander, the middle of the ice is awful. The wingers are fine, but after all is said and done, we've dealt away our best scorers and are left with a collection of undersized puck distributors and no pure snipers. And on D, Karlsson-Petry would pack a fantastic 1-2 punch, but no matter how good your top 2 is, you're going to give up scoring chances and goals if you plan on playing Alzner, Benn, and Schlemko. Juulsen and Mete, while promising, still need to prove they can reproduce what they did last year and still need to show they can play a full year in the top 4. And Price, already having played like he was distracted last year, is now expecting a second kid and really has to prove he can bounce back too.

So sure, some decent players to build around, but unfortunately, way too many holes in the line-up in key positions and way too many question marks in others.

Yeah my argument with Regis22 was that a total rebuild was not necessary and making the playoffs was a possibility with the addition of a couple key parts. yes the Habs need more grit on the 3rd and 4th lines but players like that are not lacking and not expensive.  Also by filling those 2 holes allows you to have more options through the season if the need to add a better second line center arises. by being competitive early makes Montreal a more attractive team for players looking to move.

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30 minutes ago, FireHabs said:

More grit?

Yeah bigger tougher guys that are going to protect the skilled players

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55 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Ok don't know what your talking about the Habs already have great young talent in Hudon, Lindgren, and Mete. Karlson would add valued experience on defense and a number one center would provide much needed offense not to mention being able to start with the puck more often which is key to nay good offense. the role players could get a bit bigger but the acquisition of Armia and Domi provide scoring depth. if the Habs could land Karlson then I see him playing with Mete and Petry splitting time along side Juulsen/Shlemko and Alzner and Benn stay together that D would be a top defense in the NHL on paper anyway.  If the Habs could land a number one center then Drouin could move back to the wing where he is better suited and the best line combo could be as follows (for presentation we will use Karlson and Nylander filling in the spots as examples)

Drouin-Nylander-Gallagher

Domi-Danault-Armia

Byron-Plekanec-Hudon

Lehkonen-De La Rose-Shaw (Lehkonen would be interchangeable between top 3 lines to create options)

Karlson-Mete

Petry-Juulsen/Shlemko

Alzner-Benn

Price

Niemi

cant say that team won't make the playoffs

 

danault and armia is your 2nd line and you think thats a good team?

Regis is right, even if this team adds a top centre it still stinks.

You described our kids as "great".......sorry, Mete got like 9 points, that isnt "great".  Lehkonen scored what, 4 goals? Every team in the league has good looking prospects, until they start doing anything significant,which our guys haven't, all they are is hopes and dreams.  And dont get me wrong, I like the kids we have, but until at least one of them steps up and does something, our roster is a bunch of B and C level players at best

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Yeah my argument with Regis22 was that a total rebuild was not necessary and making the playoffs was a possibility with the addition of a couple key parts. yes the Habs need more grit on the 3rd and 4th lines but players like that are not lacking and not expensive.  Also by filling those 2 holes allows you to have more options through the season if the need to add a better second line center arises. by being competitive early makes Montreal a more attractive team for players looking to move.

o_0

thats what we need!? thats all we have!! :4224:

as I just said, this teamis a bunch of B and C level players, we have a severe deficit of A level talent at both forward and defense . Thats what the habs need. good players at literally every position.

this is not a playoff team. this is one of the worst rosters in the NHL. we are a bottom 5 team as currently constructed, and the worst thing that could possibly happen is we get anywhere near the playoffs, because then we can justify kicking the can down the road on this incompetent management group and continue being a mediocre team with no direction

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21 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

o_0

thats what we need!? thats all we have!! :4224:

as I just said, this teamis a bunch of B and C level players, we have a severe deficit of A level talent at both forward and defense . Thats what the habs need. good players at literally every position.

this is not a playoff team. this is one of the worst rosters in the NHL. we are a bottom 5 team as currently constructed, and the worst thing that could possibly happen is we get anywhere near the playoffs, because then we can justify kicking the can down the road on this incompetent management group and continue being a mediocre team with no direction

I don't disagree with your assessment of the talent level of most of the players however I do not see many players in the lineup with true grit that would make other teams think twice about running Price or taking shots at Drouin. And the lines I outlined were based on our current roster with only adding 2 players into the mix. I probably should have moved Armia to  third line and Hudon second but there is no reason to think about an entire rebuild was all I was trying to show also I did say in the first post that the number one thing that needed to change was firing Bergevin

Edited by campabee82
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3 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Yeah my argument with Regis22 was that a total rebuild was not necessary and making the playoffs was a possibility with the addition of a couple key parts. yes the Habs need more grit on the 3rd and 4th lines but players like that are not lacking and not expensive.  Also by filling those 2 holes allows you to have more options through the season if the need to add a better second line center arises. by being competitive early makes Montreal a more attractive team for players looking to move.

Building a team just to make the playoffs should not be the goal. Building the team towards a future cup should be.

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44 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I don't disagree with your assessment of the talent level of most of the players however I do not see many players in the lineup with true grit that would make other teams think twice about running Price or taking shots at Drouin. And the lines I outlined were based on our current roster with only adding 2 players into the mix. I probably should have moved Armia to  third line and Hudon second but there is no reason to think about an entire rebuild was all I was trying to show also I did say in the first post that the number one thing that needed to change was firing Bergevin

I agree that we don't need to tear down the house and start from scratch, but I believe we're going to be basement dwellers for a while and the only way to get out of this hole is to properly develop prospects who may eventually be able to become legit 1st/2nd line centers. The Tavares situation this summer was an outlier, scoring centers you can build around generally aren't available. The last guy we had at that position was Saku and even then people were arguing that he wasn't a true 1st liner.

With Gallagher, Drouin, Domi, Hudon, Danault, Lehkonen, Armia, Mete, and Juulsen we do have a solid supporting cast but this roster has massive holes at the most important positions. That's why I'd still try moving Pacioretty, Price, Weber, Petry, Byron, Shaw, Benn, Alzner, and Plekanec for young roster players, prospects, and picks. The team is going to suck this year, we might as well add players with room for growth and make it worthwile.

Edited by ChiLla
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46 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

I agree that we don't need to tear down the house and start from scratch, but I believe we're going to be basement dwellers for a while and the only way to get out of this hole is to properly develop prospects who may eventually be able to become legit 1st/2nd line centers. The Tavares situation this summer was an outlier, scoring centers you can build around generally aren't available. The last guy we had at that position was Saku and even then people were arguing that he wasn't a true 1st liner.

Agreed. At the start of this summer we talked about the possibility of winning the lottery (and Drafting Dahlin) and then signing Tavares.

In those 2 moves we would become pretty much contenders overnight (ideally you would have then signed a guy like Statsny as your #2C)  but thats basically adding 2 of the top 4 most important slots on you entire roster for free.   I didnt happen and there's no other scenario where its going to happen.

So now we wait until guys like JK and RP and other top prosects are ready and - hopefully - in the meantime any trades we make (ie pacioretty) will be with the idea that we're not going to peak until maybe 2 - 3 years from now.  Acquring a 28 year old centre wont help us much then & i wouldnt do it, unless what we're sending away is something pretty minor.   

 

 

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I havent heard anyone mention this here yet but yesterday Stephane Waite said (about Carey Price's subpar season):

"We know why and we have solutions”

He then said  that  he "fully expects him (price) to return to form." 

 

Interesting.  I mean i thought the issue was fatigue but this (coming from the goalie coach) implies there was some sort of underlying physical (technique/injury/equipment)  problem.   Really really hope Waite is right.   Whether you want to keep Carey, or trade him or whatever, a healthy top-end Carey Price is better for everyone at this stage. 

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1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

Building a team just to make the playoffs should not be the goal. Building the team towards a future cup should be.

I did not say to build a team just to make the playoffs but without making the playoffs you can't entice the free agents to come to Montreal. That's why Statsny said he wouldn't come to Montreal. We have made the playoffs once in three years, and had top ten picks in the 2 years we didn't make the playoffs and we are still no further ahead. Now you want to go 1 in 4 years in the playoffs to get another early draft pick which isn't working by the way. So if we do that and don't make the playoffs again this year and next year we draft 1 or 2 top centers who will be ready another 2 or 3 years from then. We will be looking at 1 in 6 or 7 years in the playoffs and that's ridiculous we would be as attractive as Buffalo or the Islanders for free agents. You can't build a team from scratch using draft picks alone that's what Buffalo has been trying to do for years it never works besides look at the history of the game Roy drafted 156th, Robitalle 171, Theo Flurry 166, Zetterberg 210, Gilmour 134, Brett Hull 117, Datsyuk 171, draft position really means squat management needs to do a better job scouting and developing players and attracting free agents to Montreal and not making the playoffs is not going to get that done

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I havent heard anyone mention this here yet but yesterday Stephane Waite said (about Carey Price's subpar season):

"We know why and we have solutions”

He then said  that  he "fully expects him (price) to return to form." 

 

Interesting.  I mean i thought the issue was fatigue but this (coming from the goalie coach) implies there was some sort of underlying physical (technique/injury/equipment)  problem.   Really really hope Waite is right.   Whether you want to keep Carey, or trade him or whatever, a healthy top-end Carey Price is better for everyone at this stage. 

Waite was already on record earlier this off-season saying Carey and he both realized that they skipped steps this past year. He said that they both assumed because Carey had certain things down pat in the past that he didn't have to work on them in practice, and then come game time, he often showed flaws in his goaltending fundamentals. So Waite said this year, they'll be going back and making sure they prepare fully.

It didn't sound like anything to do with an injury, it sounded like it was a lack of proper practice and focus. As I've said, I wonder whether having a kid played with Carey's routine and sleep pattern and concentration, and now there's a second one on the way. So even though I know Price if fully capable of being a star, he's going to have to re-prove to everyone that he can show up every night.

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4 hours ago, habs1952 said:

Building a team just to make the playoffs should not be the goal. Building the team towards a future cup should be.

:5187:

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

So even though I know Price if fully capable of being a star, he's going to have to re-prove to everyone that he can show up every night.

I have a feeling he will.


I think last year the season was over so early that he just gave up.  It was like there was no point & he wanted desperately for a reboot button.

I think this year he'll come out & stand on his head.   Im not sure if it will be enough to get W's  ...but it should be interesting. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

I have a feeling he will.


I think last year the season was over so early that he just gave up.  It was like there was no point & he wanted desperately for a reboot button.

I think this year he'll come out & stand on his head.   Im not sure if it will be enough to get W's  ...but it should be interesting. 

And given the roster, my gut says Price comes out and looks just as apathetic as he did last year.    The first 10 games will tell ... if we're 500 or close to it (4-6, 5-5, 4-5-1, 5-4-1 etc) I'm not so sure Price will stand on his head after that.   Webber out for 2-3 months, possibly no Patches, no goal scorers just Price carrying the team ... that gets old real fast

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5 hours ago, maas_art said:

I havent heard anyone mention this here yet but yesterday Stephane Waite said (about Carey Price's subpar season):

"We know why and we have solutions”

He then said  that  he "fully expects him (price) to return to form." 

 

Interesting.  I mean i thought the issue was fatigue but this (coming from the goalie coach) implies there was some sort of underlying physical (technique/injury/equipment)  problem.   Really really hope Waite is right.   Whether you want to keep Carey, or trade him or whatever, a healthy top-end Carey Price is better for everyone at this stage. 

My dad and i believe that it has to do with Carey Price's knee, you know the one the Kreider took out in the playoffs.  We believe that he needs to have surgery on it to repair some damaged ligaments or tendons( based on how he was moving from side to side in the crease) and that he is putting it off in hopes of it healing naturally.

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2 minutes ago, truehabs said:

My dad and i believe that it has to do with Carey Price's knee, you know the one the Kreider took out in the playoffs.  We believe that he needs to have surgery on it to repair some damaged ligaments or tendons( based on how he was moving from side to side in the crease) and that he is putting it off in hopes of it healing naturally.

The Kreider Incident happened in May 18, 2014 :  https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/carey-price-run-over-by-chris-kreider-1.2646421

in the next season (2014/2015)  played ungodly posted a 1.96 GAA, a 0.933 SAV and won a ton of awards.

2015/2016 he posted a 2.06 and 0.934 SAV

2016/2017 2.26 and 0.923

2017/2018 is the outlier and a full 4 years after the Kreider hit.      And 3 of the 4 seasons after that collision were stellar to excellent.    So no, it's very unlikely this has anything to do with Kreider colliding with him in Game 1 of the 2014 playoffs.

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It probably has to do with crap team in front of him

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https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/what-the-puck-canadiens-are-rebuilding-by-accident-not-by-design

What the Puck: Canadiens are rebuilding by accident, not by design

There is no plan, Stan.

For weeks, Geoff Molson and Marc Bergevin have been talking about this famous plan that will somehow turn around the fortunes of the Montreal Canadiens. With the draft and the free-agency sweepstakes long gone, it’s now clear and transparent that in fact there never was any plan.

In Management 101 — a first-year course, by the way, that no one in the Bell Centre executive suites appears to have taken — we call this “managing via improvisation” and it’s not a good thing. Sadly it could be argued that it’s precisely that lack of planning that’s marred a succession of general managers from Réjean Houle on through to the bizarre tag team of Bob Gainey and Pierre Gauthier and now Bergevin.

If you disagree, explain to me Bergevin’s plan? At one point, many of us figured it was a two-word plan — John Tavares. But that was always a pipe dream only believed by those whose favourite Weezer song is Hash Pipe. I mean seriously! The most coveted free agent in modern National Hockey League history is going to come to Montreal? I don’t think so. Because Bergevin played hockey with Tavares’ agent when they were kids? Laughable.

But the fact that Bergevin tried desperately to snare Tavares and then Paul Stastny proves once and for all that he’s not in rebuild mode, either. So that is also not the plan. It’s true that in some ways the Habs look like they’re in rebuild position — given that a big chunk of their players are on the younger end of the spectrum — but the sad fact is that if they’re rebuilding, they’re rebuilding by accident, not by design.

 

The reality is you can’t be in a rebuild if you have two aging players — say hello to Carey Price and Shea Weber — who are eating up nearly $20 million of your salary cap.

At the end of the season, Molson said the team’s performance was unacceptable and that “we have a plan to fix it.” But what moves have been made to ensure that the performance will be more acceptable next season? Adding right-winger Joel Armia from the Winnipeg Jets? Really? It’s funny, but his wasn’t exactly the name on everyone’s lips during the Jets’ exciting playoff run.

Is it the addition of Max Domi that’s going to make everything right in Habs Nation? The young man who scored all of five times on goalies last season.

Is the plan to rid the team of any player who shows real skill? Maybe. P.K. Subban, Mikhail Sergachev, Andrei Markov, Alexander Radulov and Alex Galchenyuk are gone and it looks like goal-scorer Max Pacioretty will be the next one to be shown the door in none-too-subtle fashion by Bergevin.

By the way, why has it become the accepted wisdom that Patches simply has to go? What is up with that? The team just jettisoned one of the only players who can put the puck in the net with the Galchenyuk trade and now the GM seems intent on moving his captain as well. I am not a big Pacioretty fan. He’s a ghost in the playoffs, never goes near the corners or anywhere else where he might find a little physical resistance and he never was “captain” material. But why unload your most prolific goal-scorer?

Marc de Foy had an excellent column in Le Journal de Montréal Friday discussing the poisonous relationship between Pacioretty and Bergevin. There is a toxic culture in the Habs organization and it starts with Bergevin. As I asked last week, explain to me why it makes sense to have the boss be in a fight with one star player after another?

In the end, maybe the plan is simply to keep the profits rolling by keeping expenses down. My colleague Stu Cowan had a good column this week speculating that the team might once again be well under the salary cap. So what if that really is the plan. You know you’re not going to get into the playoffs, but you don’t really care all that much because Bergevin is cutting costs.

That’s just unacceptable. One of the most profitable teams in the NHL is spending far less than the other teams. That’s not a quest for excellence. It’s a quest for excellent financial results and if the on-ice product is mediocre, you just shrug your shoulders and make up some new excuse.

That plan is good for the shareholders, but it sure is heck isn’t good for us fans.

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5 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/montreal-canadiens/what-the-puck-canadiens-are-rebuilding-by-accident-not-by-design

What the Puck: Canadiens are rebuilding by accident, not by design

There is no plan, Stan.

For weeks, Geoff Molson and Marc Bergevin have been talking about this famous plan that will somehow turn around the fortunes of the Montreal Canadiens. With the draft and the free-agency sweepstakes long gone, it’s now clear and transparent that in fact there never was any plan.

In Management 101 — a first-year course, by the way, that no one in the Bell Centre executive suites appears to have taken — we call this “managing via improvisation” and it’s not a good thing. Sadly it could be argued that it’s precisely that lack of planning that’s marred a succession of general managers from Réjean Houle on through to the bizarre tag team of Bob Gainey and Pierre Gauthier and now Bergevin.

If you disagree, explain to me Bergevin’s plan? At one point, many of us figured it was a two-word plan — John Tavares. But that was always a pipe dream only believed by those whose favourite Weezer song is Hash Pipe. I mean seriously! The most coveted free agent in modern National Hockey League history is going to come to Montreal? I don’t think so. Because Bergevin played hockey with Tavares’ agent when they were kids? Laughable.

But the fact that Bergevin tried desperately to snare Tavares and then Paul Stastny proves once and for all that he’s not in rebuild mode, either. So that is also not the plan. It’s true that in some ways the Habs look like they’re in rebuild position — given that a big chunk of their players are on the younger end of the spectrum — but the sad fact is that if they’re rebuilding, they’re rebuilding by accident, not by design.

 

The reality is you can’t be in a rebuild if you have two aging players — say hello to Carey Price and Shea Weber — who are eating up nearly $20 million of your salary cap.

At the end of the season, Molson said the team’s performance was unacceptable and that “we have a plan to fix it.” But what moves have been made to ensure that the performance will be more acceptable next season? Adding right-winger Joel Armia from the Winnipeg Jets? Really? It’s funny, but his wasn’t exactly the name on everyone’s lips during the Jets’ exciting playoff run.

Is it the addition of Max Domi that’s going to make everything right in Habs Nation? The young man who scored all of five times on goalies last season.

Is the plan to rid the team of any player who shows real skill? Maybe. P.K. Subban, Mikhail Sergachev, Andrei Markov, Alexander Radulov and Alex Galchenyuk are gone and it looks like goal-scorer Max Pacioretty will be the next one to be shown the door in none-too-subtle fashion by Bergevin.

By the way, why has it become the accepted wisdom that Patches simply has to go? What is up with that? The team just jettisoned one of the only players who can put the puck in the net with the Galchenyuk trade and now the GM seems intent on moving his captain as well. I am not a big Pacioretty fan. He’s a ghost in the playoffs, never goes near the corners or anywhere else where he might find a little physical resistance and he never was “captain” material. But why unload your most prolific goal-scorer?

Marc de Foy had an excellent column in Le Journal de Montréal Friday discussing the poisonous relationship between Pacioretty and Bergevin. There is a toxic culture in the Habs organization and it starts with Bergevin. As I asked last week, explain to me why it makes sense to have the boss be in a fight with one star player after another?

In the end, maybe the plan is simply to keep the profits rolling by keeping expenses down. My colleague Stu Cowan had a good column this week speculating that the team might once again be well under the salary cap. So what if that really is the plan. You know you’re not going to get into the playoffs, but you don’t really care all that much because Bergevin is cutting costs.

That’s just unacceptable. One of the most profitable teams in the NHL is spending far less than the other teams. That’s not a quest for excellence. It’s a quest for excellent financial results and if the on-ice product is mediocre, you just shrug your shoulders and make up some new excuse.

That plan is good for the shareholders, but it sure is heck isn’t good for us fans.

The fans' assignment then, should they choose to accept it, is to make it NOT GOOD for the shareholders.

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

I have a feeling he will.


I think last year the season was over so early that he just gave up.  It was like there was no point & he wanted desperately for a reboot button.

I think this year he'll come out & stand on his head.   Im not sure if it will be enough to get W's  ...but it should be interesting. 

But what does that say about his attitude if that's the case? If we're out again after 20 games this season, is he just going to pack it in again? If he's meant to be a leader on this team, he has to lead through the tough times, not cave in during them.

1 hour ago, truehabs said:

My dad and i believe that it has to do with Carey Price's knee, you know the one the Kreider took out in the playoffs.  We believe that he needs to have surgery on it to repair some damaged ligaments or tendons( based on how he was moving from side to side in the crease) and that he is putting it off in hopes of it healing naturally.

I don't think he's injured. He easily could have been hurt or less than 100% at times last year, but if he had a serious injury, you'd think the team and the player would have been smart enough to say last season is lost, do the surgery now and then you have 9 months before you need to be ready. It was the perfect window. The team shut down Weber and Pacioretty and so on. There was nothing to lose by shutting down Price too. Most knee surgeries take 3-9 months to recover from, so he would have had ample time to get it done without missing anything significant.

 

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34 minutes ago, rocketbelifleur said:

The fans' assignment then, should they choose to accept it, is to make it NOT GOOD for the shareholders.

This post will self destruct in 5 seconds. :)

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6 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I did not say to build a team just to make the playoffs but without making the playoffs you can't entice the free agents to come to Montreal. That's why Statsny said he wouldn't come to Montreal. We have made the playoffs once in three years, and had top ten picks in the 2 years we didn't make the playoffs and we are still no further ahead. Now you want to go 1 in 4 years in the playoffs to get another early draft pick which isn't working by the way. So if we do that and don't make the playoffs again this year and next year we draft 1 or 2 top centers who will be ready another 2 or 3 years from then. We will be looking at 1 in 6 or 7 years in the playoffs and that's ridiculous we would be as attractive as Buffalo or the Islanders for free agents. You can't build a team from scratch using draft picks alone that's what Buffalo has been trying to do for years it never works besides look at the history of the game Roy drafted 156th, Robitalle 171, Theo Flurry 166, Zetterberg 210, Gilmour 134, Brett Hull 117, Datsyuk 171, draft position really means squat management needs to do a better job scouting and developing players and attracting free agents to Montreal and not making the playoffs is not going to get that done

You can't entice good free agents unless you have the basis of a team where the addition of a good free agent or two would give you a shot at the cup. Bergevin has gotten rid of that base.

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15 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

You can't entice good free agents unless you have the basis of a team where the addition of a good free agent or two would give you a shot at the cup. Bergevin has gotten rid of that base.

Molson and Bergevin are all about themselves, making $$$ and saving their own skins. The Stanley Cup is a mere afterthought.

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Bergevin has some secret master plan he sold everyone on potentially landing Tavares that's why he left all that cap space that was complete bs...now bergervin will sell us on Tyler seguin...the pitch we can make to Seguin is that he played for Julien while in Boston...seguin and benn r great off ice friends and that's the reason benns still on our roster....price and seguin did a commercial together few years back 

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