Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

State Of The Habs 2018-19


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Yeah, I suppose your right but we also are too weak at center to offer up a legitimate number 1 NHL ready center for Karlsson. However I do like the idea of Weber and Mete for Karlsson. Would not like to see Poehling in there either though. At least that way you can get a decent reliable defense men who is not out injured more than he is playing.

the only thing of any value we have to offer ottawa would be our 1st for next year because we are going to be a bottom 5 team again. otherwise its a non starter. anyway why do you want karlsson,so we have a bunch of bums and karlsson?

this team needs a wrecking ball , not an individual player at this or that position. we are weak everywhere,we are not a player away. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

this team needs a wrecking ball , not an individual player at this or that position. we are weak everywhere,we are not a player away. 

Jeff33, The team needs a revamp yes but not a wrecking ball as you suggest. We are weak at center and have been for 2 decades and paying weber to sit out almost entire seasons for the past 2 years is ridiculous. but had you read my lines you would see there is hope to at least start the revamp and get free agents interested in coming to the habs again. Maybe even in a couple of years compete for a cup.

1. Drouin, Kotkaniemi, Gallagher

2. Lehkonen, Peca, Sherbak

3 Domi, Plekanec, Armia

4. De La Rose, Freose, Shaw

D

1. Karlson, Petry

2. Mete, Alzner

3. Benn Juulsen

G

1. Price

2. Niemi

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Jeff33, The team needs a revamp yes but not a wrecking ball as you suggest. We are weak at center and have been for 2 decades and paying weber to sit out almost entire seasons for the past 2 years is ridiculous. but had you read my lines you would see there is hope to at least start the revamp and get free agents interested in coming to the habs again. Maybe even in a couple of years compete for a cup.

1. Drouin, Kotkaniemi, Gallagher

2. Lehkonen, Peca, Sherbak

3 Domi, Plekanec, Armia

4. De La Rose, Freose, Shaw

D

1. Karlson, Petry

2. Mete, Alzner

3. Benn Juulsen

G

1. Price

2. Niemi

Im reading your lines and this looks like a last place team unless kotkaniemi is a real stud number 1, which I would like to see at least happen at the AHL level before I get any kind of hopes up in the regard..... 

even then......matthew peca is your 2c holy moly .....and then we got plek and froese and thats what your hoping to see going forward?

anyway its all moot, if MB called and offered byron and danault for karlsson dude would probably laugh and hang up. unless your adding about 100 draft picks thats not an offer .

just buckle your seat belt we are going to stink for a while. even after MB loses his job the next guy is going to have to be hercules to clean these stables

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

anyway its all moot, if MB called and offered byron and danault for karlsson dude would probably laugh and hang up

Do you even read the whole thread or just stick your 2 cents in without reading. I never once said Byron and Danault for Karlsson I added Pacioretty there too, and Maas_art pointed out that probably would not fly only way the Sens consider is Weber and Mete or Poehling. To which my response was Weber and Mete don't want to give up a potential number 2 center in case Peca drowns with the responsibility. Read the whole thread next time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

the only thing of any value we have to offer ottawa would be our 1st for next year because we are going to be a bottom 5 team again. otherwise its a non starter. anyway why do you want karlsson,so we have a bunch of bums and karlsson?

this team needs a wrecking ball , not an individual player at this or that position. we are weak everywhere,we are not a player away. 

The team already has a wrecking ball and that would be Bergevin.  

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Do you even read the whole thread or just stick your 2 cents in without reading. I never once said Byron and Danault for Karlsson I added Pacioretty there too, and Maas_art pointed out that probably would not fly only way the Sens consider is Weber and Mete or Poehling. To which my response was Weber and Mete don't want to give up a potential number 2 center in case Peca drowns with the responsibility. Read the whole thread next time.

I read the whole thread, and my first post addressed it. I said your not gonna get karlsson for patch danault and byron, and even if you could there would be no point because its not like we are 1 player away....to which you replied by saying look at this potential lineup as a defense that we can be a contender, and I was not impressed with your potential lineup. What did I miss?

Anyway guys on a general note, because I think what you are seeing that I'm not is a common fallacy of overvaluing what you have because you have no frame of reference. 

for example what Im saying is, we have scherbak. looks like hes got some skills and might make the team. thats cool, but the harsh reality is that he had 6 pts in 26 games. thats not data I can analyze and say oh baby this guy is gonna be great, we are gonna be contenders soon!

we have lehkonen, seems like a pretty decent prospect. 139gp,49 pts.  Chicago has a kid named alex debrincat, who they drafted using our pick we exchanged for andrew shaw. .as a rookie he scored 52 pts. give me that guy and ill be excited and believe your optimism . what we have are some decent kids who have had so-so results. if 1 or 2 or 3 of them break out and turn into legit scorers, I'll change my tune and start agreeing with you. otherwise, the numbers back up my position which is that we got a whole lot of not much here, and getting tavares or karlsson really wouldnt make us a contender. maybe a playoff team that gets bumped right away and Ive seen too many habs team which were that. im sick of that.

blow this thing up. get rid of everyone over the age of 25 and lets get serious

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/20/2018 at 1:24 PM, habs1952 said:

Seriously get rid of anyone over 25 what kind of logic is that. Then all you have is a bunch of snot nosed rookies running around playing for themselves, who will teach them how to play at the NFL level of no one is over 25? Who will be the leader? How do you ever expect to make the playoffs if you don't have leadership and experience? That is Buffalo Sabres logic right there and how long have they been rebuilding! Since Hasek left that's how long! WOW winning logic just fire everyone you need to join Bergevin's team of managers!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, campabee82 said:
On 20/07/2018 at 1:24 PM, habs1952 said:

Seriously get rid of anyone over 25 what kind of logic is that. Then all you have is a bunch of snot nosed rookies running around playing for themselves, who will teach them how to play at the NFL level of no one is over 25? Who will be the leader? How do you ever expect to make the playoffs if you don't have leadership and experience? That is Buffalo Sabres logic right there and how long have they been rebuilding! Since Hasek left that's how long! WOW winning logic just fire everyone you need to join Bergevin's team of managers!

Id sure hate to be buffalo with eichel and dahlin for 10 years of their primes. the point is not to worry about the playoffs and let those youth turn into good players, and have high drafts and get more potential star players. then you either grow your own stars, or at least a good enough cast that its worth then worrying about adding vets for leadership and making the playoffs. those players are always available. we have been acquiring new ones year after year just to stay on the bubble. 

the funny thing is your saying I should join bergy's management team but your the one agreeing with his logic

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Correct me if I am wrong but did Buffalo not finish last or close to it again with all their young guys. You can have a ton of young guys without any veteran players they still don't have the experience to make the playoffs or even be a legitimate contender. Your right about needing younger TALLENTED players and not having sights on the playoffs this year but I think that if you start from scratch you would have to hope that all of you picks for the next 3 years turn out to be winners just to set your sights on being a contender in 4 or 5 years. The reality is that of all of the picks over the next 3 years you may only get 2 maybe 3 good players. So you would still have to have a baseline system in place to build from which is all I was trying to demonstrate with bringing in a Karlsson type of player. And that will just get you into the playoffs within the next year or two then you build from there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

37 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

Id sure hate to be buffalo with eichel and dahlin for 10 years of their primes. the point is not to worry about the playoffs and let those youth turn into good players, and have high drafts and get more potential star players. then you either grow your own stars, or at least a good enough cast that its worth then worrying about adding vets for leadership and making the playoffs. those players are always available. we have been acquiring new ones year after year just to stay on the bubble. 

the funny thing is your saying I should join bergy's management team but your the one agreeing with his logic

I hate the idea that it's just easy enough to be bad a couple of years then all of a sudden you're a cup contender because of "possible" draft picks. Even when being last almost was a sure thing of the #1 pick Edmonton for how many years? Even they got lucky and got McDavid when Buffalo actually should have. So with the blow it up that solves everything idea than why hasn't Phoenix won the last 5 or so cups or even better yet made the playoffs? If a couple of the young guys hopefully a center can break out and surprise us all of a sudden it's looking better sooner. You can look at the roster and say no way , but everyone who looked at the Vegas roster last year said the same thing. The old adage you don't play the game on paper but on the ice. At this time does the roster look like a playoff roster probably not. That said if Price plays better Mete and Juelsilen have a year under the belt , some young players with potential Druin may be more comfortable this year Pacs could easily have a decent year Gallagaer is only improving. We have young guys who want to prove themselves and "may" surprise. So I don't think it's all doom and gloom and I don't think we have to totally blow up the team because that isn't any sure thing. We could finish last the next two seasons and not get the first pick very easily the way it is set up now. Again a good goalie , a 30 goal scorer forward an unknown defense .....Vegas who picked them in the cup final this time last year? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, campabee82 said:

 

1. Drouin, Kotkaniemi, Gallagher

2. Lehkonen, Peca, Sherbak

3 Domi, Plekanec, Armia

4. De La Rose, Freose, Shaw

Don't take this personally, but as a whole those line's are garbage , and that is more a reflection on MB

Your 2nd line C is a 4  th liner and your 3 rd and 4 th line C 's probably shouldn't even be in the NHL

De La Rose is a C not a winger

I have no idea what Lehkonen,Sherbak, Domi and Armia are capable and you have 2 of them on the 2nd line

Shaw should eb traded , especially if you're going to keep him and pay him what MB signed him for

Link to comment
Share on other sites

18 minutes ago, CaptWelly said:

I hate the idea that it's just easy enough to be bad a couple of years then all of a sudden you're a cup contender because of "possible" draft picks. Even when being last almost was a sure thing of the #1 pick Edmonton for how many years? Even they got lucky and got McDavid when Buffalo actually should have. So with the blow it up that solves everything idea than why hasn't Phoenix won the last 5 or so cups or even better yet made the playoffs? If a couple of the young guys hopefully a center can break out and surprise us all of a sudden it's looking better sooner. You can look at the roster and say no way , but everyone who looked at the Vegas roster last year said the same thing. The old adage you don't play the game on paper but on the ice. At this time does the roster look like a playoff roster probably not. That said if Price plays better Mete and Juelsilen have a year under the belt , some young players with potential Druin may be more comfortable this year Pacs could easily have a decent year Gallagaer is only improving. We have young guys who want to prove themselves and "may" surprise. So I don't think it's all doom and gloom and I don't think we have to totally blow up the team because that isn't any sure thing. We could finish last the next two seasons and not get the first pick very easily the way it is set up now. Again a good goalie , a 30 goal scorer forward an unknown defense .....Vegas who picked them in the cup final this time last year? 

1.  Lets be clear. Im not saying blowing it up will guarantee we become a cup contender. Im saying this team as its comprised is one of the worst in the league and its time to take it out back and shoot it. I'm saying lets liquidate our assets and make a fresh start. At least that future team has a chance, this one does not and so there's no point in trying to bandaid it or hang onto aging guys like price and weber just so we can make believe we are a playoff team.

2. I went over this with you before Im sure of it. Vegas had a 1c who scored 44 goals and 75 points. When Drouin does that, I wont be saying what I'm saying now. They also had I think 4 or 5 other guys break 60 points. we didnt have EVEN ONE. now like I said above, if these kids we have break out, then im on board and ill start sipping the koolaid. if they continue on like they have we come in last place again. simple. sometimes players turn into stars,sometimes they just play like stars for a magical year or two, but the underlying point is someone needs to produce for you to win.  we dont have anyone who produces in a significant way. 

3. your doing here what the other guy is doing and not having a frame of reference. mete has a year under his belt ok....he got 9 points. what am I realistically expecting...15? 20?  we have young guys who want to prove themselves and may surprise, so does every single team. they all have their own guys. what they also have is legit talent that produces. 

what are we even worried about, we HAVE these shaws and webers and pacioretty's and they dont match up to real stars on real teams and we lose anyway!! everybody can go, get as many young players and prospects as we can and lets get serious

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How much younger are you looking to get I mean seeing as the habs average age is 26.8 years old ranked 9th youngest in the NHL there isn't much more we can do to get younger. So by getting rid of anyone over 25 you may be dropping 3 to 5 players that won't open many roster spots for younger players. There goes your blow it up and get younger theory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering the only one really much north of 30 is Weber your not proposing to lose much age as Pacioretty is 29, Shaw is 27, and price is 31. Another interesting fact that may be overlooked by a lot of fans is that while we are a younger team as noted above we are also the smallest team in average height and on the lower end of average weight making the habs easily pushed around. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Being smaller and younger are not bad things but the biggest downfall to this team and the reason we should not just blow it up is simple no one wants to play for Bergevin. They do not have the confidence that he has the best interest of the team in mind and everyone is afraid that he could blow this team up even worse at any moment. So Get rid of Bergevin and let the team we have grow and show what they are capable of with a real GM they can count on and want to play for and add another talented peice or two then see where they are at.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

32 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Being smaller and younger are not bad things but the biggest downfall to this team and the reason we should not just blow it up is simple no one wants to play for Bergevin. They do not have the confidence that he has the best interest of the team in mind and everyone is afraid that he could blow this team up even worse at any moment. So Get rid of Bergevin and let the team we have grow and show what they are capable of with a real GM they can count on and want to play for and add another talented peice or two then see where they are at.

the current mess being a deterrent is a good point and I agree.......however the mess is really that we have our star money tied up in guys-the ones I mentioned-who do not stack our roster up against any good team. 

Its not even all about the age to me, its about moving on from name players who just arent good enough for us to take this teamseriously. 

I mean we werent even good enough a few years back and then we just downgraded like crazy from there. We havent been able to score to save our lives in so long. Its time to move on from our name players, thats what I mean by blow it up. And if we do that and move forward with the young guys we have and the young guys we should be aimiing to bring back with the trades we should make, we CAN see what they are capable of and supplement them when they are ready.

Anything we do otherwise is just attempting to tread water and pretend we are better than what we are when the results on the ice tell a completely different story

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ok well then yes I agree that there are a lot of players that are over valued but with them being over valued and not playing well enough to trade we are stuck with them cause every other team 8n the league sees that they are over paid and no one will take them. So in essence we are stuck with them at least until they either start playing well enough that their value increases or their current contract runs out. Alzner is another one that I feel is extremely over valued and should be added to your list. But again because of that no one else will take him. Our only real hope is they start performing well enough that at the trade deadline we are able to move some of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know this isn't exactly a new development but to me it's still unfathomable how MB hasn't been fired yet. The roster is a complete mess and he's 100% responsible for creating it. We have no top-line centers or LDs to speak of, yet so many LWs and RWs that we won't have enough room once everyone's healthy – unless we use them at center. Then there's a number of prospects battling for roster spots who we can't send to Laval without the risk of losing them for nothing on waivers.

We know trades are hard and some players simply don't want to play in Montreal. That's no excuse for having such an imbalanced roster though. The worst of all is nobody forced MB's hand, he did this all by himself.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

CaLla  your completely right we have a ton of prospects and way more wingers than any team ever needs and it's not going to get any better really cause next year we have 11 more picks followed by 9 in 2020. That's another 20 players that are going to be looking for spots either in Laval or as part of the Habs. That's why I don't see blowing this team up for more younger players as a real option if your going to blow it up and you can find willing trade partners then forget about getting even more younger guys and hoping things improve. Get some established players in the 23 to 28 years old range that have high end talent. The problem really lies with 1. No one wants to come here 2. Bergevin wants younger guys who he can develop his way 3. Bergevin does not want anyone who will stand up and speak there mind. Why else would he have traded a young outspoken PK for an older follow the leader Weber. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Price would have very high trade value but may be impossible to trade. he has a NMC, an absurd salary and the very real potential that he might never live up to it to enough of a degree to make it palatable for another team.

Weber is absolutely tradeable and should be being actively shopped. He is the last real chance we have at getting back the kind of package we were HOPING to get from max.

Shaw should be tradeable as long as he comes back healthy. he was playing pretty decent last year.....obviously we should have traded him then but then that would imply someone competent is in charge of such things.

Alzner is probably not tradeable thats probably one of the worst contracts in the league. seriously....how does MB have a job still

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, jeff33 said:

1.  Lets be clear. Im not saying blowing it up will guarantee we become a cup contender. Im saying this team as its comprised is one of the worst in the league and its time to take it out back and shoot it. I'm saying lets liquidate our assets and make a fresh start. At least that future team has a chance, this one does not and so there's no point in trying to bandaid it or hang onto aging guys like price and weber just so we can make believe we are a playoff team.

2. I went over this with you before Im sure of it. Vegas had a 1c who scored 44 goals and 75 points. When Drouin does that, I wont be saying what I'm saying now. They also had I think 4 or 5 other guys break 60 points. we didnt have EVEN ONE. now like I said above, if these kids we have break out, then im on board and ill start sipping the koolaid. if they continue on like they have we come in last place again. simple. sometimes players turn into stars,sometimes they just play like stars for a magical year or two, but the underlying point is someone needs to produce for you to win.  we dont have anyone who produces in a significant way. 

3. your doing here what the other guy is doing and not having a frame of reference. mete has a year under his belt ok....he got 9 points. what am I realistically expecting...15? 20?  we have young guys who want to prove themselves and may surprise, so does every single team. they all have their own guys. what they also have is legit talent that produces. 

what are we even worried about, we HAVE these shaws and webers and pacioretty's and they dont match up to real stars on real teams and we lose anyway!! everybody can go, get as many young players and prospects as we can and lets get serious

I was comparing to the Vegas roster before the season started. Before they had any of the guys have break out years. It's easy to go back and compare now and show what those guys had but this time last year NO ONE believed any of those players were going to all of a sudden have break out (maybe even career  years). On paper this time last year Vegas didn't look good either they had Fluery, and Neal as known players. So that was the real comparison not what they did and their current roster compared to our current roster. This time last year there were analyst that picked the HABS to make the playoffs and most didn't pick Vegas to even make the playoffs. So there is always surprises and unknowns. Not all things "automatically" have comparable and in sports they don't always have to. We are fans and can have our own opinions and hopes. There is no definite right or wrong. Or we wouldn't "as fans" be on these boards with our great wisdom we would be actual professionals  behind benches or in front offices.  I am hoping for Price to bounce back Pacs to have a great season Weber come back early and be strong and rested Drouin to have a break out year a long with a couple of others. If nothing else what Vegas did (with a no name roster mostly) can give you hope if you chose to. I always want to win and being bad doesn't always increase chance of being better. To each their own GO HABS GO!!! This doesn't mean I agree with MB and all his choices but I still root for my team!

 

,

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • H_T_L locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...