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State Of The Habs 2018-19


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1 minute ago, CaptWelly said:

I was comparing to the Vegas roster before the season started. Before they had any of the guys have break out years. It's easy to go back and compare now and show what those guys had but this time last year NO ONE believed any of those players were going to all of a sudden have break out (maybe even career  years). On paper this time last year Vegas didn't look good either they had Fluery, and Neal as known players. So that was the real comparison not what they did and their current roster compared to our current roster. This time last year there were analyst that picked the HABS to make the playoffs and most didn't pick Vegas to even make the playoffs. So there is always surprises and unknowns. Not all things "automatically" have comparable and in sports they don't always have to. We are fans and can have our own opinions and hopes. There is no definite right or wrong. Or we wouldn't "as fans" be on these boards with our great wisdom we would be actual professionals  behind benches or in front offices.  I am hoping for Price to bounce back Pacs to have a great season Weber come back early and be strong and rested Drouin to have a break out year a long with a couple of others. If nothing else what Vegas did (with a no name roster mostly) can give you hope if you chose to. I always want to win and being bad doesn't always increase chance of being better. To each their own GO HABS GO!!! This doesn't mean I agree with MB and all his choices but I still root for my team!

 

,

All of us here are rooting for our CH.

However most of us are in agreement that MB is the wart that has to be removed in order for us to progress.

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

Price would have very high trade value but may be impossible to trade. he has a NMC, an absurd salary and the very real potential that he might never live up to it to enough of a degree to make it palatable for another team.

Weber is absolutely tradeable and should be being actively shopped. He is the last real chance we have at getting back the kind of package we were HOPING to get from max.

Shaw should be tradeable as long as he comes back healthy. he was playing pretty decent last year.....obviously we should have traded him then but then that would imply someone competent is in charge of such things.

Alzner is probably not tradeable thats probably one of the worst contracts in the league. seriously....how does MB have a job still

Agreed on all.   Price i think would command a high return but there is virtually no one i think who would pay it. He'd need to go to a team that was all in, had goaltending deficiencies and had young assets to move.  Just dont see the right fit out there.   I am in the camp that believes he will bounce back, and as such, with all the ELC we will have and the fact that he is apparently a good leader, I dont mind keeping him to be honest.  Its the one contract I wouldnt hate to keep ahold of.  If we did a rebuild right, we'd need some salary just to reach the cap floor.

Weber MUST be shopped now.  A cap right, money poor team would probably pay handsomely for him.  A team that is on the cusp of contending might too.  

Shaw would have takers.  He's young enough that i wouldnt mind keeping him but i worry he's one concussion away from the LTIR

Alzner would be tough.  I think you might be able to move him if we retained salary.  At that point it might be worth just keeping him as a 3rd pairing, PK specialist.  From what ive heard he's one of the most liked guys in the league so it certainly wouldnt hurt to keep him on your (very young) roster.

If we're moving those guys Id move other older players too. Not all of them but:

- Petry would most likely bring you a young prospect + pick.
- Byron could probably fetch a decent young prospect + pick.
- Benn and Schlemko wouldnt bring much but even a 2-4th rounder is nothing to sneeze at and it opens up roster space. 

 

 

 

 

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I hate having the wait and see attitude before completely scrapping the team that I keep portraying here. However if we want to get the best possible value out of anyone we are looking to trade we need to wait until at least Christmas to see where they are at and what we could truly get for them. If Weber does come back early and plays well we should shop him right away cause there is no telling when he could be out again. If Pacioretty bonuses back and is on track to have a great year then yeah give him what he wants keep him long term with a NYC. If Shaw returns to even half the form he was in in Chacago then see what's out there for options. Alzner and Benn were always over rated and should be shopped to get what we can and open space for free agents next year. Byron I think would need to be part of a package deal to get value back, unless he becomes an over night phenom but doubtful. Price I think will bounce back as well and will be worth keeping like Pacioretty. However none of this really matters is MB is still in charge. Cause he will always find a way to wreak havoc on the players and fans alike.

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4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

Price would have very high trade value but may be impossible to trade. he has a NMC, an absurd salary and the very real potential that he might never live up to it to enough of a degree to make it palatable for another team.

Weber is absolutely tradeable and should be being actively shopped. He is the last real chance we have at getting back the kind of package we were HOPING to get from max.

Shaw should be tradeable as long as he comes back healthy. he was playing pretty decent last year.....obviously we should have traded him then but then that would imply someone competent is in charge of such things.

Alzner is probably not tradeable thats probably one of the worst contracts in the league. seriously....how does MB have a job still

 

 

We'll be lucky to see Weber on the ice before the trade deadline.

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1 hour ago, habs1952 said:

We'll be lucky to see Weber on the ice before the trade deadline.

honestly I dont think that matters too much. hes living off his rep anyway, everyone knows what he is. he will come back and score a few pp goals, occasional big hit and make 4 foot passes. 

even if he only plays 10 games before the deadline it wont affect his value much, just as long as hes actually back and there arent complications. a smart gm would start having conversations now....be cool if we had one of those...

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

honestly I dont think that matters too much. hes living off his rep anyway, everyone knows what he is. he will come back and score a few pp goals, occasional big hit and make 4 foot passes. 

even if he only plays 10 games before the deadline it wont affect his value much, just as long as hes actually back and there arent complications. a smart gm would start having conversations now....be cool if we had one of those...

With his "value", he's an albatross ( with contract and term) for any team that would want him so, we're stuck with him.  

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10 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

With his "value", he's an albatross ( with contract and term) for any team that would want him so, we're stuck with him.  

Its really not though.  

Shea Weber is a valuable trade chip right now and will continue to be valuable no matter how long he plays.  Who he is valuable to will change - right now a contender but in a few years it may be a cap right, cash poor team - but he'll always have value with that contract and it is not an albatross in the least.  His cap hit is $7.8m which is not at all out of line with what he brings to the table (assuming he can stay healthy - which even though he's had a rough patch - I do think he'll be able to do).  He's currently being paid nearly $6m year and that will go down to $3m in a few years.  

A cheap owner like Melnyck or similar would love to get a hold of Weber.  He'll always have value. The question is what that value is.   If he comes back strong, its probably a big haul. If he returns and plays poorly then its likely minimal (picks or prospects) but still not difficult to move.   Unfortunately i dont know if we'll ever find out since i cannot see MB moving him. 

 

 

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I laugh at how Webber is viewed! in the end it was a bad trade for many many reasons but if it would have been done right with at least another player or good draft pick and other smart moves that would have given us a short term shot it could have been ok but we all know that was not the case here. the thing is it is not like Webber is on par with say Benn he is a very good d man and if we can't use him as he is getting older and we are in no position to make a run he should be able to get us something good for the future either a prospect and a pick or a really solid pick. in the end it is over for us now and he will not be part of any great future so we have to get what we can to make that future happen.

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42 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

I laugh at how Webber is viewed! in the end it was a bad trade for many many reasons but if it would have been done right with at least another player or good draft pick and other smart moves that would have given us a short term shot it could have been ok but we all know that was not the case here. the thing is it is not like Webber is on par with say Benn he is a very good d man and if we can't use him as he is getting older and we are in no position to make a run he should be able to get us something good for the future either a prospect and a pick or a really solid pick. in the end it is over for us now and he will not be part of any great future so we have to get what we can to make that future happen.

If we had traded something like Gallagher and a 1st rounder for Weber, I think people would have viewed the trade differently. It's not to say that's a good or bad trade, but you could at least make an argument that you're dealing one type of asset for a different area of strength. With the Subban deal, we got older, we got less skilled, and we got the worse contract. And the overlying sentiment was that the trade was made because of MB and MT's personal vendetta against Subban and not for hockey reasons.

But imagine we had traded a forward or prospects for Weber, and suddenly you have Subban-Weber-Petry down the right side and you're golden on defence. Weber would have been a perfect #2 to Subban's top dog. Instead, we downgraded and didn't pick up any other assets in the deal. To undo as much as possible, MB still has a window to trade Weber while he continues to have perceived value. He's not going to get another #1 D man back, but he could definitely get younger players or picks and bring more potential back.

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10 hours ago, maas_art said:

A cheap owner like Melnyck or similar would love to get a hold of Weber.  He'll always have value. The question is what that value is.   If he comes back strong, its probably a big haul. If he returns and plays poorly then its likely minimal (picks or prospects) but still not difficult to move.   Unfortunately i dont know if we'll ever find out since i cannot see MB moving him.

There's 2 problems I have with this theory:

  1. Supply and demand: there's no shortage of frontloaded contracts while there's very few teams who need to get the cap floor using cap tricks. Are there any real examples of a bad contract being moved (as an asset rather than negative value) to help a team get the floor? Maybe, but I can't think of any, and there's a lot of contracts that have gone sour that would have been attractive for this reason.
  2. LTIR: The biggest risk of Weber's contract to everyone but Nashville is LTIR - and historically with long-term deals, it's usually more a matter of when and not if this happens. While there's some cap relief for players on LTIR, it still causes cap headaches.

Weber definitely has positive value now, but that contract could turn sour very quickly (it will still be tradeable, but the value could turn negative).

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Sept 7

4 - 0 loss to Ottawa rookies .

And so it begins

First-round draft pick Brady Tkachuk scored twice as the Ottawa Senators' rookie team beat the Montreal Canadiens' rookie squad 4-0 Friday in the first game of a three-day tournament that also features the Toronto Maple Leafs. Alex Formenton and Christian Jaros also scored for the Senators while goalie Filip Gustavsson made 15 saves for the shutout.

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19 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Sept 7

4 - 0 loss to Ottawa rookies .

And so it begins

First-round draft pick Brady Tkachuk scored twice as the Ottawa Senators' rookie team beat the Montreal Canadiens' rookie squad 4-0 Friday in the first game of a three-day tournament that also features the Toronto Maple Leafs. Alex Formenton and Christian Jaros also scored for the Senators while goalie Filip Gustavsson made 15 saves for the shutout.

Surely it's the attitude from our side which keeps us from winning. ;)

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14 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Sept 7

4 - 0 loss to Ottawa rookies .

And so it begins

First-round draft pick Brady Tkachuk scored twice as the Ottawa Senators' rookie team beat the Montreal Canadiens' rookie squad 4-0 Friday in the first game of a three-day tournament that also features the Toronto Maple Leafs. Alex Formenton and Christian Jaros also scored for the Senators while goalie Filip Gustavsson made 15 saves for the shutout.

annnnd  kotkaniemi was -2  with obviously 0 points.  Im not going to sit here and argue the pick,its not like I have watched all these guys and I know what Im talking about,and the future is totally up in the air, but I think we should have taken zadina or tkachuk. I know we need a center but if either of those guys becomes a way better player than JK we could use them to trade for one.

 

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14 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

annnnd  kotkaniemi was -2  with obviously 0 points.  Im not going to sit here and argue the pick,its not like I have watched all these guys and I know what Im talking about,and the future is totally up in the air, but I think we should have taken zadina or tkachuk. I know we need a center but if either of those guys becomes a way better player than JK we could use them to trade for one.

 

it's just one game, depending on who we play him with and system we use he could thrive, but here in montreal we will probly move to wing

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2 minutes ago, jwlk said:

it's just one game, depending on who we play him with and system we use he could thrive, but here in montreal we will probly move to wing

of course, it means nothing the kid is like 17 still.  but I totally meant to add that so thank you :4224: LW for sure

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14 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

annnnd  kotkaniemi was -2  with obviously 0 points.  Im not going to sit here and argue the pick,its not like I have watched all these guys and I know what Im talking about,and the future is totally up in the air, but I think we should have taken zadina or tkachuk. I know we need a center but if either of those guys becomes a way better player than JK we could use them to trade for one.

 

Tkachuk is literally an entire year older than Kotkaniemi and this was basically JK's first semi-serious game on small ice. As for Zadina, he's fine but if people think Pacioretty is a floater and doesn't do anything if he's not scoring they aren't going to be happy with Zadina. I watched him in Halifax a fair bit and he's just not a #3 talent IMO, doesn't really drive the play from the wing. He's more James Neal than Pacioretty if that makes sense. Wahlstrom is the better winger IMO, he has much better vision and impacts the game more than Zadina.

Tkachuk will have a fine season but I'm glad the Habs stayed away. He's always been the oldest and most physically developed player at every level and never really scored much at all, while Kotkaniemi was a top 6 forward in the 4th best pro league in the world as a lanky 17 year old and only just turned 18 in the summer. 

Tkachuk is a physically mature player and will probably have the 3rd best rookie season after Dahlin and Svechnikov but I'm not remotely concerned about which player is best in year 1 or 2 and I don't really see Tkachuk as a guy with a big upward trajectory. He's NHL ready now and will be a solid middle six player but I don't think we'll see big jumps from him in his 2nd and 3rd seasons and onwards. I dunno, people talk about him like he's Wayne Simmonds but I just don't think he'll be at that level.

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MB did an interview with Marc Denis... a few of the interesting points made:

- MB Stated you don't talk about a rebuild as long as you have Carey Price. Added that when he became GM in 2012, many teams were looking for a #1 goalie and are still looking for one and that as such, Carey is here to stay, like the foundation of a house. (So much for a rebuild, so much for the thought of trading his veterans)

- Denis asked about his D corps and whether he had confidence in them after being over-excited last year. Bergevin responded "I can't denigrate my own players in public" and "I have confidence in Carey Price." (doesn't sound like he has any confidence in his D this year and that he's put all his cards back on Carey again, just like in the past)

- On JK, MB says he wouldn't say he's a franchise player but that he thinks he will be at minimum a great center (whatever that means to him)

- MB states that he'll accept the argument of poor development the day a young player goes to another team and becomes the player everyone thought he would be (I'd argue this doesn't take into account your own development system simply ruining a player though).

- Says the team will not remove the C from Pacioretty but adds that even though they like Pacioretty as a player, there are business decisions to be made (so confirms the desire to trade him essentially)

- Confirms that Radulov was initially looking for an 8-year deal then went down to 6 but that his demands were too high. He went to market and got the offer from Dallas, which MB agreed to match, except that Radulov said the Habs had to give him an extra million a season to make up for the differences in taxes, and MB refused on account of the fact he has the same salary cap as Dallas (I'm completely on board with MB on this one. For anyone who believes taxes don't affect player decisions, it's BS. They do, whether the impact is as real as players think it is or not. The cap is bogus and negatively impacts teams like us as a result of not being able to match taxes fairly)

- Says he got good advice from Rick Dudley to never make a move just to save his own job (and hopefully he sticks to this)

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Just now, habs1952 said:

31st place here we come!!!!!!! Heck, we might even set the modern day record for the least amount of goals scored in a season. More Habs history to celebrate at the opening ceremonies. 

C'mon now,,,,, we have Tatar to replace Max's 20 goal production and we have the best empty net guy in the League to replace Chucky. :ph34r:

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I actually think you guys are going to be surprised at how this team does this year.   

I mean yes, we're essentially the same team as last year but I also think we had a ridiculous string of bad luck to start the season & they just never fully recovered.  I wouldnt be surprised at all to see us as a wildcard team.   Id rather see us as a lottery team, mind you, but i think we'll be better - a lot better- than what we showed last year. 

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2 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I actually think you guys are going to be surprised at how this team does this year.   

I mean yes, we're essentially the same team as last year but I also think we had a ridiculous string of bad luck to start the season & they just never fully recovered.  I wouldnt be surprised at all to see us as a wildcard team.   Id rather see us as a lottery team, mind you, but i think we'll be better - a lot better- than what we showed last year. 

My hopes rest on them somehow miraculously ruining the Leafs home opener. :frech1: After that????

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This organization has become so petty

 

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/stu-cowan-whats-in-a-number-at-canadiens-rookie-camp

Markov and Subban are two players Canadiens management would like to forget even though they both never wanted to leave Montreal and Markov would still love to come back. With Shea Weber out until December following foot and knee surgery, the 39-year-old Markov could probably still fill the No. 2 spot on the Canadiens’ weak blue line beside Jeff Petry, but that won’t happen with Markov now starting his second year with Ak-Bars in the KHL after posting 5-28-33 totals in 55 games last season.

Melancon and Brook didn’t choose numbers 79 and 76, they were given to them at rookie camp. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but it seems like the Canadiens are putting unnecessary added pressure on those two defencemen while also sending a message to Markov and Subban, who had personality conflicts with GM Marc Bergevin.

Markov is the only player in Canadiens history to have No. 79, wearing it with pride for 16 seasons before getting into a contract dispute with Bergevin and going to Russia. The only other Canadiens player to wear No. 76 besides Subban — who was traded to the Nashville Predators two years ago for Weber — is Jozef Balej, who wore it for four games during the 2003-04 season.

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6 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I actually think you guys are going to be surprised at how this team does this year.   

Nope

Some of us thought they we're going to suck last year , with the D they had, and they did

And nothing has changed , unless CP has another all world year and sneaks them into a wildcard spot .

The still have NO # 1 or @ 2 NHL C and the 4 th lien C should retire

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9 minutes ago, Regis22 said:

Nope

Some of us thought they we're going to suck last year , with the D they had, and they did

And nothing has changed , unless CP has another all world year and sneaks them into a wildcard spot .

The still have NO # 1 or @ 2 NHL C and the 4 th lien C should retire

Why cant you let someone else have an opinion?   Do you need to drag everyone down with your crap attitude?   We get it, you hate the habs.   

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