Jump to content
The Official Site of the Montréal Canadiens
Canadiens de Montreal

State Of The Habs 2018-19


Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Carey was bad last year, no doubt. I think everyone knows it, including Carey, and MB has referenced it several times, so it's not like anyone's trying to cover it up. I posted a while back that Stephane Waite said he and Carey stopped practicing the basics of goaltending last year because they assumed he had those down but that this year they went back to make sure he is doing those things routinely, so maybe there will be a change.

I do also think Carey kind of gave up on last season a bit after we started tanking. And then of course, you had his slow, bad-at-moving-pucks defence from a season ago that made it ten times worse. If the Habs do make moves to get rid of Alzner and Benn, even if we're less experienced, I think we'll see that pays dividends for Price as well. His contract remains a big concern,but I have faith he can at least be a top 10-12 goalie in the league and maybe better.

The contract is a concern for me, too. I have no idea where the cap will be in a few years, but having the highest paid goaltender in the world, performing below the quality of the best goaltenders in the NHL, is going to be depressing for followers and fans of the team. I suppose if he can perform in the 10-12 range, that would be okay... but I often wonder if all that money would be better spent elsewhere. There's no pressing need to have the money now, but who knows who we might need to resign in 3-4 years from now.

I'm glad to hear that Carey and Waite are back to the basics. Hopefully it translates to a better season for Carey.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lines at practice were the same today, with Alzner subbing in for Benn.   Mete-Petry and Reilly-Juulsen  as our top 4.     Promising. 

 

Some thought that Plekanec will draw in for Peca next game so that game #3 (our first on home ice) they can celebrate opening night and Plek's #1000 in the same night.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

58 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Lines at practice were the same today, with Alzner subbing in for Benn.   Mete-Petry and Reilly-Juulsen  as our top 4.     Promising. 

 

Some thought that Plekanec will draw in for Peca next game so that game #3 (our first on home ice) they can celebrate opening night and Plek's #1000 in the same night.  

Heard that talk to, although supposedly opening night is going to be a hommage to the '93 team and their 25 year anniversary, so maybe the plan is to make Plekanec's 1000th the 2nd home game.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Heard that talk to, although supposedly opening night is going to be a hommage to the '93 team and their 25 year anniversary, so maybe the plan is to make Plekanec's 1000th the 2nd home game.

Im sort of torn too. I mean Ive been a pleky fan for a decade plus but between him and Peca who do i want in the lineup?   I mean honestly hes' probably not in my top 14 if im icing the forwards I want to see.  

So im happy he gets this honor but the sooner the better and then we can let him sit until we get injuries - and even then - lets make sure there's not someone in Laval that is more deserving. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Im sort of torn too. I mean Ive been a pleky fan for a decade plus but between him and Peca who do i want in the lineup?   I mean honestly hes' probably not in my top 14 if im icing the forwards I want to see.  

So im happy he gets this honor but the sooner the better and then we can let him sit until we get injuries - and even then - lets make sure there's not someone in Laval that is more deserving. 

Yup.

Peca > Plekanec

Scherbak > Plekanec, albeit different roles, but Scherbak at least has the potential to get better and help us down the line

I'd even rather DLR over Plekanec for the same reason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Yup.

Peca > Plekanec

Scherbak > Plekanec, albeit different roles, but Scherbak at least has the potential to get better and help us down the line

I'd even rather DLR over Plekanec for the same reason.

And thats why I dumped all over it when we did it.  The ONLY thing that makes sense is he plays his 1000  game and we put him on waivers or trade him.like the next day. He is literally just wasting roster space. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

And thats why I dumped all over it when we did it.  The ONLY thing that makes sense is he plays his 1000  game and we put him on waivers or trade him.like the next day. He is literally just wasting roster space. 

As long as he's not taking roster space I dont have a big problem with him in the system. It looks more and more like he was brought back as a mentor. He's been working with JFK and Domi on faceoffs. I get the sense that management was very up front with him when they signed him.  His quote today:

“I know what stage I’m at in my career,” Plekanec said. “I want to be in the lineup and now I have to stay ready for when my my number’s on the board.”

Now, if we get players back from injury and have to, say, put Scherbak on waivers because TP is on the 23man roster, thats a problem. But id be pretty surprised if they it come to that. 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

And thats why I dumped all over it when we did it.  The ONLY thing that makes sense is he plays his 1000  game and we put him on waivers or trade him.like the next day. He is literally just wasting roster space. 

 

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

As long as he's not taking roster space I dont have a big problem with him in the system. It looks more and more like he was brought back as a mentor. He's been working with JFK and Domi on faceoffs. I get the sense that management was very up front with him when they signed him.  His quote today:

“I know what stage I’m at in my career,” Plekanec said. “I want to be in the lineup and now I have to stay ready for when my my number’s on the board.”

Now, if we get players back from injury and have to, say, put Scherbak on waivers because TP is on the 23man roster, thats a problem. But id be pretty surprised if they it come to that.

I was also against the Plekanec signing... at best, he's doing a 4th line center's work that could be done by a younger player, yet he's doing it without the upside of giving that younger player experience for the future. If we were a legit contender this year, then yes, maybe it makes sense to have a Plekanec as a key veteran PK guy for the playoffs. But we're not.

If and when everyone is healthy, are we going to put Scherbak on waivers ahead of Plekanec? Are we going to put DLR on waivers first? Interested to know.

I also wonder how much of this ordeal is related to the backlash from Markov walking. It's possible MB or GM or both thought fans were so upset about letting a longtime Hab like Markov walk that they want to give fans Plekanec's 1000th game. Not sure they understood that the backlash wasn't so much about just letting Markov walk and more about the fact that there wasn't anyone better to bring in. In Plekanec's case, there are better younger players who can take his roster spot.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

27 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

 

I was also against the Plekanec signing... at best, he's doing a 4th line center's work that could be done by a younger player, yet he's doing it without the upside of giving that younger player experience for the future. If we were a legit contender this year, then yes, maybe it makes sense to have a Plekanec as a key veteran PK guy for the playoffs. But we're not.

If and when everyone is healthy, are we going to put Scherbak on waivers ahead of Plekanec? Are we going to put DLR on waivers first? Interested to know.

I also wonder how much of this ordeal is related to the backlash from Markov walking. It's possible MB or GM or both thought fans were so upset about letting a longtime Hab like Markov walk that they want to give fans Plekanec's 1000th game. Not sure they understood that the backlash wasn't so much about just letting Markov walk and more about the fact that there wasn't anyone better to bring in. In Plekanec's case, there are better younger players who can take his roster spot.

:6280:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, jeff33 said:

And thats why I dumped all over it when we did it.  The ONLY thing that makes sense is he plays his 1000  game and we put him on waivers or trade him.like the next day. He is literally just wasting roster space. 

100% Agreed. Plekanec needs to be gone, along with a few others. (Price, Weber, Alzner)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

100% Agreed. Plekanec needs to be gone, along with a few others. (Price, Weber, Alzner)

Are you kidding get rid of Price then what do you have as a replacement a washed up Niemi or an inconsistent McNiven or Lindgren? No Price has earned the right to be the starter AND prove last year was a fluke. If this year goes the same way then you can consider trading him but you don't go and trade a superstar player cause of one or two bad seasons. By that Measure the Caps should trade Ovechkin if his goals drop one season over another or the Pens should trade Crosby if he has less than say 70 points a season. But like Price those players have proven they are among the best in the world and deserve to be allowed a bad season now and then. It is just so much more emphasized because fans look at a goal being scored as a direct result of the goalies abilities not as a result of the teams ability or lack there of to play defense in front of him. Yes Price had a bad year and yes he admits it but he also had NO team defense in front of him either. If his season last year had occurred with a defense half as good as his heart trophy season then yeah think about trading him but it didn't! So jumping on a goalie for a bad season with no defense in front of him is kind of like thinking you can stand on the train tracks and hold up a hand and expect to be able to stop a speeding train.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Are you kidding get rid of Price then what do you have as a replacement a washed up Niemi or an inconsistent McNiven or Lindgren? No Price has earned the right to be the starter AND prove last year was a fluke. If this year goes the same way then you can consider trading him but you don't go and trade a superstar player cause of one or two bad seasons. By that Measure the Caps should trade Ovechkin if his goals drop one season over another or the Pens should trade Crosby if he has less than say 70 points a season. But like Price those players have proven they are among the best in the world and deserve to be allowed a bad season now and then. It is just so much more emphasized because fans look at a goal being scored as a direct result of the goalies abilities not as a result of the teams ability or lack there of to play defense in front of him. Yes Price had a bad year and yes he admits it but he also had NO team defense in front of him either. If his season last year had occurred with a defense half as good as his heart trophy season then yeah think about trading him but it didn't! So jumping on a goalie for a bad season with no defense in front of him is kind of like thinking you can stand on the train tracks and hold up a hand and expect to be able to stop a speeding train.

trade not give away.

e.g what if it was for nylander and andersson 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

trade not give away.

e.g what if it was for nylander and andersson 

I am not convinced Anderson is worth it even as a package deal with Nylander. Also on the flip side say Anderson is worth it and you can convince the Leafs to trade both him and Nylander and Price does what everyone is expecting and returns to even 3/4ths his former glory. Now you just added Price to an already stacked Leafs team which now definitely puts them in the top 2 or 3 potential cup winning teams. That would be an automatic career killing trade for the GM, Coach and most of their staff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I am not convinced Anderson is worth it even as a package deal with Nylander. Also on the flip side say Anderson is worth it and you can convince the Leafs to trade both him and Nylander and Price does what everyone is expecting and returns to even 3/4ths his former glory. Now you just added Price to an already stacked Leafs team which now definitely puts them in the top 2 or 3 potential cup winning teams. That would be an automatic career killing trade for the GM, Coach and most of their staff.

On top of all of this you now have one MORE winger and a decent young goalie with the same defense problems so why not just see if Price returns to form and trade Weber for a better younger dman or prospects.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Are you kidding get rid of Price then what do you have as a replacement a washed up Niemi or an inconsistent McNiven or Lindgren? No Price has earned the right to be the starter AND prove last year was a fluke. If this year goes the same way then you can consider trading him but you don't go and trade a superstar player cause of one or two bad seasons. By that Measure the Caps should trade Ovechkin if his goals drop one season over another or the Pens should trade Crosby if he has less than say 70 points a season. But like Price those players have proven they are among the best in the world and deserve to be allowed a bad season now and then. It is just so much more emphasized because fans look at a goal being scored as a direct result of the goalies abilities not as a result of the teams ability or lack there of to play defense in front of him. Yes Price had a bad year and yes he admits it but he also had NO team defense in front of him either. If his season last year had occurred with a defense half as good as his heart trophy season then yeah think about trading him but it didn't! So jumping on a goalie for a bad season with no defense in front of him is kind of like thinking you can stand on the train tracks and hold up a hand and expect to be able to stop a speeding train.

Re: bolded.

At a certain point, yes, a smart GM, I think, would trade those players if they could. An off-season isn't the same thing as the beginning of a decline. There will be a time when Crosby and Ovechkin start putting up fewer and fewer numbers. If one could get younger prospects or some high end picks down the road for players on the decline, you snap that up.

Don't get me wrong, I love Price. I want him to be at his best because it's pretty much the only way we stand a chance of remotely getting to stop shaving in April. That contract, though, is really only good for him and if someone gave me someone else for him, someone that might add stability on the defense or more goals on the scoreboard, I start writing a letter to the fans that love him and take the PR hit for the sake of future wins.

Price is only worth that money when he's a 4x6 piece piece of plywood. Anything less than that then we should jump at the chance to get the same thing for cheaper and maybe come out on the better end of the score sheet at the end of a game.

 

EDIT: just to add, I'm fairly certain the farthest we've gone in the Playoffs since our last Cup was under a goalie by a different name. Said goalie, I don't think, has found a stable job since.

That is to say: while keeping pucks out of the net is an important element of the game, we'll never win a 0-0 game.

I'd give Price to Nashville if we could get PK back. There's plenty of goalies. Maybe the ceiling might not be as high with Lindgren or Niemi but out problem won't be solved by goaltending. We need goal scoring.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

^^ I think Price can still be good if not excellent for another 5 years. But is he going to be the best goalie in the league? Is he going to be worth over 10M a season? And can he maintain that performance over the rest of the length of his contract? I'm not so sure about the answer to those questions. Only time will tell.

I think the main thing MB needs to look at is what I've said over and over when it comes time to evaluating any player: who are your core players and when is the window when they will be able to take you to a Cup? If your goal as a GM is to just try and make the playoffs, then sure, keeping Price is reasonable. But the real goal of any team should be to be a legit Cup contender. Right now, the core we're looking at to be able to build a Cup contender is made up of players like Kotkaniemi, Mete, Juulsen, Drouin, Lehkonen, Hudon, and maybe guys like Suzuki, Ylonen, Poehling, Brook, Ikonen, and Romanov. Sure, we have good veterans like Weber, Petry, Gallagher, and Tatar, but I just don't see enough of a supporting cast right now to say we're a true contender with them. Either MB would need to swing a couple of deals to acquire two top-4 defencemen and a legit top-line center (which would be very hard to do) or else he's better off building around the younger core I mentioned above. It doesn't mean you can't have a veteran or two hanging around as part of that future, but they'd best be paid reasonably to make everything work, and Price isn't. To keep Price for another 8 years also means you're potentially saying the likes of LIndgren, McNiven, and Primeau will never be your starting goalie of the future, and FWIW, a lot of people feel like we have a strong pipeline of future goalies coming. So at what point do you have to ask yourself, who's the best goalie to carry the team in the window between 3-6 years from now and who's going to give you the best return on the cap hit? I'm not saying it's not Price, but I am saying it's worth asking that question.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Are you kidding get rid of Price then what do you have as a replacement a washed up Niemi or an inconsistent McNiven or Lindgren? No Price has earned the right to be the starter AND prove last year was a fluke. If this year goes the same way then you can consider trading him but you don't go and trade a superstar player cause of one or two bad seasons. By that Measure the Caps should trade Ovechkin if his goals drop one season over another or the Pens should trade Crosby if he has less than say 70 points a season. But like Price those players have proven they are among the best in the world and deserve to be allowed a bad season now and then. It is just so much more emphasized because fans look at a goal being scored as a direct result of the goalies abilities not as a result of the teams ability or lack there of to play defense in front of him. Yes Price had a bad year and yes he admits it but he also had NO team defense in front of him either. If his season last year had occurred with a defense half as good as his heart trophy season then yeah think about trading him but it didn't! So jumping on a goalie for a bad season with no defense in front of him is kind of like thinking you can stand on the train tracks and hold up a hand and expect to be able to stop a speeding train.

As others have said and as I keep reiterating, Price is past his prime IMO. My personal reasoning for trading Price is also that albatross of a contract he has, it really paralyzes us from acquiring key players that are needed for a serious Cup run. Not to mention the contract given to players like Alzner.

Today's successful NHL teams who are serious contenders do not rely so heavily on their goaltending or one player, as they do on offense, defense and speed.

I may be wrong and he might play brilliantly this year but we won't be getting anywhere near a Cup run as a result.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree. I think Price is two years into his prime with the best still ahead of him. I think our faced paced style will really accentuate his play making ability and the time spent in our own end will drop significantly if Julien and Ducharme's system is effective. He'll still have to make the big save but the shots on goal should go down as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

^^ I think Price can still be good if not excellent for another 5 years. But is he going to be the best goalie in the league? Is he going to be worth over 10M a season? And can he maintain that performance over the rest of the length of his contract? I'm not so sure about the answer to those questions. Only time will tell.

I think the main thing MB needs to look at is what I've said over and over when it comes time to evaluating any player: who are your core players and when is the window when they will be able to take you to a Cup? If your goal as a GM is to just try and make the playoffs, then sure, keeping Price is reasonable. But the real goal of any team should be to be a legit Cup contender. Right now, the core we're looking at to be able to build a Cup contender is made up of players like Kotkaniemi, Mete, Juulsen, Drouin, Lehkonen, Hudon, and maybe guys like Suzuki, Ylonen, Poehling, Brook, Ikonen, and Romanov. Sure, we have good veterans like Weber, Petry, Gallagher, and Tatar, but I just don't see enough of a supporting cast right now to say we're a true contender with them. Either MB would need to swing a couple of deals to acquire two top-4 defencemen and a legit top-line center (which would be very hard to do) or else he's better off building around the younger core I mentioned above. It doesn't mean you can't have a veteran or two hanging around as part of that future, but they'd best be paid reasonably to make everything work, and Price isn't. To keep Price for another 8 years also means you're potentially saying the likes of LIndgren, McNiven, and Primeau will never be your starting goalie of the future, and FWIW, a lot of people feel like we have a strong pipeline of future goalies coming. So at what point do you have to ask yourself, who's the best goalie to carry the team in the window between 3-6 years from now and who's going to give you the best return on the cap hit? I'm not saying it's not Price, but I am saying it's worth asking that question.

The best goalie we have in our system who word carry us to a cup contending team right now is Price. I don't see Lindgren, Noemi or McNiven ever being a starting goalie both McNiven and Lindgren have been here trying to establish themselves as prices backup now for a couple of years without any success. Primeau I have not seen play so I cannot comment on his ability to be number one. That said I do not believe that ONE bad season by Price is enough to say that he is beyond his prime especially when that season was played with the team we had last year like HABS=STANLEYCUP has been saying. Like many others my opinion is that Price returns to form and if he does there is no reason to believe that he is not going to be one of the best goalies in the league into his 40s many other goalies have accomplished that feat like Roy, Broaduer, Belfore, even Luongo who still plays at a high level. Price may have been overvalued a little but I don't think he was overvalued as much as most people do. He probably should have been signed for between 8 and 9 mil for 8 years but that's on MB for paying 10.5. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To be fair, our younger goalies haven't had "a couple of years without any success", they were actively delayed due to the expansion draft and the Habs needing a goaltender with a contract available for selection.

 

The question those of us that support moving Price are asking isn't "who drags us to the playoffs these next few years" but rather "who helps us three plus years down the road when we're ready to be in playoff conversation".  To the first question, yes, Price is undoubtedly the answer.  However, the odds of winning it all are at their longest right now.  We likely cannot improve them enough... without actually dealing Price to solve another deficiency or two.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • H_T_L locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...