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State Of The Habs 2018-19


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22 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

As others have said and as I keep reiterating, Price is past his prime IMO. My personal reasoning for trading Price is also that albatross of a contract he has, it really paralyzes us from acquiring key players that are needed for a serious Cup run. Not to mention the contract given to players like Alzner.

Today's successful NHL teams who are serious contenders do not rely so heavily on their goaltending or one player, as they do on offense, defense and speed.

I may be wrong and he might play brilliantly this year but we won't be getting anywhere near a Cup run as a result.

I felt the best time to trade Price and Patches was the 1st year we tanked.  I heard a rumour after the 2016 deadline that Garth snow offered Barzal, Strome and a 1st for Patches and Bergie declined.  If he would've kicked in Price, maybe they could've gotten a couple more picks or prospects.

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On 10/6/2018 at 3:01 PM, campabee82 said:

The best goalie we have in our system who word carry us to a cup contending team right now is Price. I don't see Lindgren, Noemi or McNiven ever being a starting goalie both McNiven and Lindgren have been here trying to establish themselves as prices backup now for a couple of years without any success. Primeau I have not seen play so I cannot comment on his ability to be number one. That said I do not believe that ONE bad season by Price is enough to say that he is beyond his prime especially when that season was played with the team we had last year like HABS=STANLEYCUP has been saying. Like many others my opinion is that Price returns to form and if he does there is no reason to believe that he is not going to be one of the best goalies in the league into his 40s many other goalies have accomplished that feat like Roy, Broaduer, Belfore, even Luongo who still plays at a high level. Price may have been overvalued a little but I don't think he was overvalued as much as most people do. He probably should have been signed for between 8 and 9 mil for 8 years but that's on MB for paying 10.5. 

Yup the only guy we have in our system right now who might one day compete for the starting role is Fleury and lets not forgot a bunch of teams passed on him for some reason.

Carey Price is 31.    He could have another 7-8 years of prime playing time based on the number of 38yr+ goalies kicking around the league these days.   The only concern is if he returns to Carey form or Scarey form.

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11 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Yup the only guy we have in our system right now who might one day compete for the starting role is Fleury and lets not forgot a bunch of teams passed on him for some reason.

Carey Price is 31.    He could have another 7-8 years of prime playing time based on the number of 38yr+ goalies kicking around the league these days.   The only concern is if he returns to Carey form or Scarey form.

My concern would be how well the team in front of him plays defensively. If Price needs to do headstands every night I can see his carreer shortened by a few years. Roberto Luongo is 39 and I think he is still highly regarded.

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Sportsnet did a "definitive ranking" of the top defensemen in the league over 3 seasons.  They used various metrics to rank offense, transition and defense,

Our own Jeff Petry ranked 13th in the league.   (if you dont want to cry, dont look at #3).  Petry was ranked 23rd last year.  

 

Full article here: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-20-defencemen-three-seasons/

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Sportsnet did a "definitive ranking" of the top defensemen in the league over 3 seasons.  They used various metrics to rank offense, transition and defense,

Our own Jeff Petry ranked 13th in the league.   (if you dont want to cry, dont look at #3).  Petry was ranked 23rd last year.  

 

Full article here: https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/definitive-ranking-nhls-top-20-defencemen-three-seasons/

I didn't see Weber in there. :ph34r:

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2 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

I didn't see Weber in there. :ph34r:

No one did.

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

He didnt meet the threshold for games played.    I think with the metrics they were using he wouldnt be, but it would be close. 

The cutoff, if I recall, was 2000 minutes over the past 3 seasons. Weber played pretty much full seasons the two before last one and 26 games last year, so he would only have had to average 11 minutes of ice time a night to reach the threshold. So I'm sure he was eligible. The fact is that when it comes to a lot of the advanced metrics, Weber just isn't very good. He's not a great transition player, he doesn't get on loose pucks, etc. Arbitrary as to what stats should be used and how they should be weighted, but if you look at which players in these rankings end up at the top they seem to be a pretty decent reflection of which players have value. Not surprised as at all that Subban is top 3 and not surprised at all that Petry scores well ahead of Weber.

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13 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

No one did.

The cutoff, if I recall, was 2000 minutes over the past 3 seasons. Weber played pretty much full seasons the two before last one and 26 games last year, so he would only have had to average 11 minutes of ice time a night to reach the threshold. So I'm sure he was eligible. The fact is that when it comes to a lot of the advanced metrics, Weber just isn't very good. He's not a great transition player, he doesn't get on loose pucks, etc. Arbitrary as to what stats should be used and how they should be weighted, but if you look at which players in these rankings end up at the top they seem to be a pretty decent reflection of which players have value. Not surprised as at all that Subban is top 3 and not surprised at all that Petry scores well ahead of Weber.

And yet some still believe the Habs got the better of the Subban Weber trade... go figure :5187:

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3 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

And yet some still believe the Habs got the better of the Subban Weber trade... go figure :5187:

I don't think we got the better of the Subban trade, but I do believe we got the better of the Galchenyuk trade.  As far as the 1 for 1's Bergie has made, this is the best.  I still believe the Drouin and Weber trades were a win for the other guys.

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18 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

No one did.

The cutoff, if I recall, was 2000 minutes over the past 3 seasons. Weber played pretty much full seasons the two before last one and 26 games last year, so he would only have had to average 11 minutes of ice time a night to reach the threshold. So I'm sure he was eligible. The fact is that when it comes to a lot of the advanced metrics, Weber just isn't very good. He's not a great transition player, he doesn't get on loose pucks, etc. Arbitrary as to what stats should be used and how they should be weighted, but if you look at which players in these rankings end up at the top they seem to be a pretty decent reflection of which players have value. Not surprised as at all that Subban is top 3 and not surprised at all that Petry scores well ahead of Weber.

No matter what happened I was always going to be mad about the Subban trade, he was my favourite player so even if Weber came here and was fantastic I was always going to still wish it didnt happen.

That being said, I will double down on my opinion that he is the most overrated "star"player we have had. Once upon a time he was a force. I thought his first year you could see flashes of it, but clocks dont run backwards and the cold hard truth is this is the type of player that is going extinct.

Conversely, could you imagine Subban with THIS team now,playing how we do?   just makes you wanna cry. One of the worst trades in habs history

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FWIW  Assat (Kotkaneimi's Finnish team)  is still looking for its 1st regulation win - 10 games into the season.  Its apparently a tire-fire.

IMHO there is NO WAY that MB and Julien let Kotkaniemi go back there. 

As a European player he is eligible to play in Laval but I understand there's some speculation that his contract and/or contract with Assat has a clause where he can refuse to play in the AHL  (so, NHL or Finnish league only) but Im not 100% positive.

 

Prior to the start of the Finnish season i thought odds were he'd get 9 games and get sent back.  Hes handled himself well in 2 games and with the added news of his team back home, i think its very likely he stays with the team all year.  Maybe he gets loaned out for the WJC but that would be about it. 

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37 minutes ago, maas_art said:

FWIW  Assat (Kotkaneimi's Finnish team)  is still looking for its 1st regulation win - 10 games into the season.  Its apparently a tire-fire.

IMHO there is NO WAY that MB and Julien let Kotkaniemi go back there. 

As a European player he is eligible to play in Laval but I understand there's some speculation that his contract and/or contract with Assat has a clause where he can refuse to play in the AHL  (so, NHL or Finnish league only) but Im not 100% positive.

 

Prior to the start of the Finnish season i thought odds were he'd get 9 games and get sent back.  Hes handled himself well in 2 games and with the added news of his team back home, i think its very likely he stays with the team all year.  Maybe he gets loaned out for the WJC but that would be about it. 

I'd rather him stay here if his Finnish team is a disaster. Better to learn in Montreal (even if it is a hard season) rather than go back and play on a horrible team in Finland. IMO. I'll eventually get around to watching a game. I missed the first two matches. Perhaps Thursday night I'll catch some of the Kings game. I'm excited to see him play!

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7 hours ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I don't think we got the better of the Subban trade, but I do believe we got the better of the Galchenyuk trade.  As far as the 1 for 1's Bergie has made, this is the best.  I still believe the Drouin and Weber trades were a win for the other guys.

We've hashed this out already, but the Weber-Subban trade was a loss on just about every facet you can use to evaluate them: we got the older, slower, less skilled player with a better shot but worse defensive ability and a considerably worse contract. And a guy who plays the same position. It was an indefensible trade IMO, especially in our position where we simply shortened our Cup window for nothing.

The Galchenyuk-Domi trade and the Drouin-Sergachev trade are more debatable. In the former, you can argue we got the younger player with better passing skills. But on the other hand, we gave up the better goal-scorer and on our team, where we had few proven goal scorers and also ended up trading away Pacioretty, adding another pass-first player doesn't really make a ton of sense. Sure, Domi has played well. Sure, the team has played well thus far. But it's two games, and Domi missed most of the pre-season after a stupid penalty. I think you can defend the Domi acquisition, but I'm just not sure how the deal fits into the make-up of the roster. I think MB needed to do something else to add another goal-scorer if he was going to trade away Pacioretty and Galchenyuk. Similarly for Drouin, I don't think there was a clear winner to the trade and in ten years, I think it's entirely possible we could declare either Mtl or TB the victor. But dealing away an NHL-ready Sergachev at the same time that you get rid of Markov, Beaulieu, and Emelin left the left side of the defence in shambles. So like the Domi trade, I think you can defend it in isolation, but there seems to be no clear plan from our GM as to how that trade fits into the bigger picture.

Thus far, I think we've seen improvement in our play compared to last year for a couple of reasons:

1. It's a small sample size, so even though there's optimism, I don't think we can say much yet.

2. Price has been better than last season.

3. JK's emergence has allowed the other centers to go back into more appropriate roles.

4. We've gotten better by subtraction... no Alzner, no Plekanec, no DLR, no Deslauriers, no Schlemko, limited Benn back in a 3rd-pairing role, and so on. You take a lot of the slower players out of the line-up and replace them with faster skilled guys and not surprisingly, we're better. We'll see if they continue to sit those slow veterans though. As it stands, I think we're missing true top end talent but we're making up for it with speed, puck skill, and depth. Our 1st and 2nd lines may be inferior to most other teams but our 3rd and 4th lines are probably better quality than what others can put out too. So if we roll four lines successfully, we can wear other teams down. If you suddenly drop Hudon and Peca and Kotkaniemi and replace them with Plekanec, DLR, and Deslauriers, I think you're going to see a drop-off in the entire team's ability to keep up.

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5 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

As a European player he is eligible to play in Laval but I understand there's some speculation that his contract and/or contract with Assat has a clause where he can refuse to play in the AHL  (so, NHL or Finnish league only) but Im not 100% positive.

 

His contract includes a European Assignment Clause which means he can refuse Laval and go back to Finland if he chooses.

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Julien said today that he expects Deslauriers back in the lineup in less than 2 weeks.  DLR should be cleared very soon too...  We need to make some decisions (ie Alzner, Plekanec, Scherbak etc). 

The best case scenario would be to trade Alzner +  another waiver-elligable roster player for a prospect who is waiver exempt, or a pick.  Worst case scenario is exposing someone like DLR or Scherbak to waivers and hoping they clear (i think DLR would, i think Scherbak would not).  

It seems clear that MB needs to make a move - and fairly quickly - which is always a scary thought. 

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Interesting tidbit today in the Athletic where MB says that the asking price for Ryan OReilly from Buffalo was    " Ryan Poehling + 2nd Round Pick + ____"   He didnt say what the 'extra' was but it sounds like the key pieces were Poehling and the 2nd.  

Its good value but considering where our team is heading im glad we didnt make that deal.    What surprises me more is that Buffalo was looking for a package like that & ended up in completely the opposite direction with mid-tier talent and so so picks.  

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2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Knowing MB he'll likely do something stupid like send JK back to Finland.

Yup.   And that woudlnt even be the worst he could do.   I could see him trading Hudon or someone to make space for DLo.  

 

38 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

And when you use Benn properly he looks fairly good actually.   It's when you over use him that he starts making mistakes.

Totally.  EOTP  had a very interesting piece last year where they showed he was basically playing the same both years with us. The problem is that in his first year (after the trade) he was playing 3rd pairing minutes with 3rd pairing assignments and 3rd pairing matchups.    Last year he was playing top 4 - and sometimes even top pair - assignments and minutes and it just didnt work.   

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33 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yup.   And that woudlnt even be the worst he could do.   I could see him trading Hudon or someone to make space for DLo.  

 

 

For sure. Personally i have no problem if we were to lose DLR to waivers. We have lots of guys who can play that role. Would be nice to get another asset for him, but that's life if there are no takers. I'd like to hold on to Scherbak if possible, but again,,,, i won't lose any sleep over it. 

As much as i would like to see it happen, i doubt Alzner gets moved one way or the other

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15 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

For sure. Personally i have no problem if we were to lose DLR to waivers. We have lots of guys who can play that role. Would be nice to get another asset for him, but that's life if there are no takers. I'd like to hold on to Scherbak if possible, but again,,,, i won't lose any sleep over it. 

As much as i would like to see it happen, i doubt Alzner gets moved one way or the other

Based on our roster, i think the following forwards are safe:

Gallagher, Drouin, JFK, Domi, Lehkonen, Byron, Tatar, Danault, Shaw, Armia.  I would hope that Hudon is on that list too, but surprised he's playing so far down the lineup - i guess there's only so many top 9 spots. 

That leaves  Peca, Plekanec, DLR, Deslauriers and Sherbak vying for 1 spot in the lineup and 3 total roster spots.  The thing is, the 11 players listed above are 8 wingers and 3 centres, so that last spot - unless they plan on shifting someone to centre is either Peca or Plekanec's.

I cant see them waiving Peca or Deslauriers and they'd be foolish to waive Scherbak.      As you said, its nothing to lose sleep over but was obvious even before the season started that we had too much bottom 9 depth.

Hopefully it gets sorted in a positive way but i have my doubts. 

 

As for Alzner, i think there's a legit chance he's not on this roster by Christmas.  Im not sure how they heck MB will pull that rabbit out of his hat but I am positive he's trying hard to make something happen. I mean MB does not like admitting he's wrong (which he actually did publicly a few weeks ago re: alzner)  so i am sure he wants to fix that asap. 

 

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4 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Based on our roster, i think the following forwards are safe:

Gallagher, Drouin, JFK, Domi, Lehkonen, Byron, Tatar, Danault, Shaw, Armia.  I would hope that Hudon is on that list too, but surprised he's playing so far down the lineup - i guess there's only so many top 9 spots. 

That leaves  Peca, Plekanec, DLR, Deslauriers and Sherbak vying for 1 spot in the lineup and 3 total roster spots.  The thing is, the 11 players listed above are 8 wingers and 3 centres, so that last spot - unless they plan on shifting someone to centre is either Peca or Plekanec's.

I cant see them waiving Peca or Deslauriers and they'd be foolish to waive Scherbak.      As you said, its nothing to lose sleep over but was obvious even before the season started that we had too much bottom 9 depth.

Hopefully it gets sorted in a positive way but i have my doubts. 

 

As for Alzner, i think there's a legit chance he's not on this roster by Christmas.  Im not sure how they heck MB will pull that rabbit out of his hat but I am positive he's trying hard to make something happen. 

 

Wouldn't be admitting his mistake? :7072:

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10 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Based on our roster, i think the following forwards are safe:

Gallagher, Drouin, JFK, Domi, Lehkonen, Byron, Tatar, Danault, Shaw, Armia.  I would hope that Hudon is on that list too, but surprised he's playing so far down the lineup - i guess there's only so many top 9 spots. 

That leaves  Peca, Plekanec, DLR, Deslauriers and Sherbak vying for 1 spot in the lineup and 3 total roster spots.  The thing is, the 11 players listed above are 8 wingers and 3 centres, so that last spot - unless they plan on shifting someone to centre is either Peca or Plekanec's.

I cant see them waiving Peca or Deslauriers and they'd be foolish to waive Scherbak.      As you said, its nothing to lose sleep over but was obvious even before the season started that we had too much bottom 9 depth.

Hopefully it gets sorted in a positive way but i have my doubts. 

 

As for Alzner, i think there's a legit chance he's not on this roster by Christmas.  Im not sure how they heck MB will pull that rabbit out of his hat but I am positive he's trying hard to make something happen. I mean MB does not like admitting he's wrong (which he actually did publicly a few weeks ago re: alzner)  so i am sure he wants to fix that asap. 

 

MB made another one of his signature dumb signings this summer when he extended Deslauriers, so i don't see him reversing his position on that deal. He likes to tie down those 4th liners, doesn't he?:rolleyes: Re signing Pleky is another one of those questionable moves that we could have easily done without. Nice to have that veteran depth, but not at the expense of losing an equal and younger guy who fills the need of a retooling team like ours. Scherback or DLR are his likely targets IMO and Peca on the outside. Moving Hudon by waiver would just be idiotic. He easily moves up or down a lineup like ours. Then again,,,, we are talking about a GM with a history.

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