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State Of The Habs 2018-19


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Also to add to the above, a player like Galchenyk, who some think was an offensive dynamo for this team, only had 8 even strenght goals for this team last season. 8??? and he had the second most even strengh minutes only behind Gallagher, Gallagher had 19, heck Nicholas delauirier had 10 goals in only 600 minutes, Galchenyk had  8 goals in 1025 minutes. So if you dont back check, dont help in the defensive zone or the neutral zone, cant help with a defensive zone breakout and and can only score 8 even strengh goals in over a 1000 minutes of icetime well that is a huge problem for a team. 

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44 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

I am not sure that scherbak is a better player for Kots right now. Armia may not be lighting it up. But he is a very responsible player in all three zones that is why this team has been succesful, players who are willing to work hard in all zones, watch the wingers support the breakout from the defensive zone. Sherbak may have more offensive upside but at the end of the day that would likely be a step backwards for this team. If you drop Lekonen back with Kots and Byron and try Sherback with some proven NHL players in Domi and Droiun I would be for that. I love what Kots has brought to this team  i still think he needs the insulation he has been getting, 30 or 40 games into the season things could be different. Even over the last couple of games, KOts looks like he trying to catch up to the speed of the game a bit. 

We seen that with Galchenyk, yes he has more offensive upside, but at what cost, consistently the worst plus/ minus player on the team. Yes he may score a highlight reel goal, but at the end of the night he is a minus 3, because he only understands one end of the rink. He was brutal in his own end, because he rarely understood where to play without the puck,  if your a consistent 35 or 40 goal scorer than you can bite the bullet a bit. 

I  did say I wonder if they are sitting Scherbak because Armia is a better player to learn from. I just think that Scherbak may be inserted on Kotkaniemi's wing after the 9 game Mark to provide more of an offensive threat and start to build chemistry if there is a plan for them to play together in the future.

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19 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 

 

I think there's a misconception that offensive players like Scherbak take nights off more commonly because they don't play the same style of game as say a Danault or a Deslauriers or a Shaw. Those plumber type players are charged with lesser tasks. If they "try hard" and "don't make any major mistakes" they're seen as having had good games. Man, that Philip Danault really skated hard on that back check. Wow, Andrew Shaw took that bodycheck to make the clearing play. Deslauriers put his body on the line to block that shot for the team. You remember those standout plays and you associate them with effort or grit and you attribute a positive spin on them. Conversely, you look at scorers like Pacioretty or Briere or Galchenyuk or Kovalev or Scherbak now. All of those players have been labeled lazy or streaky or inconsistent by fans and media, but are they? No, maybe they don't look like they're running all over the ice, but frequently, these guys only need a couple of great moments a game to make an impact.

I remember a couple of games last year and in pre-season this year where Scherbak created something out of nothing and got a great scoring chance but didn't score. Sometimes he did it a few times in a game. But his "success" also depends on a defender or a goalie making a mistake, in a game where 90-93% of shots are stopped. If a guy like Scherbak or Pacioretty goes 5 games without scoring a goal, he's labeled as slumping. On the other hand, a guy like Danault or Shaw or Deslauriers can backcheck hard and if he happens to catch the guy and turn the puck over, you recall that as a success. You don't think as much about the next 5 times where he fails to get the puck. Your recall is that the player made a great play to save a scoring chance and your recall on Scherbak is that he didn't score the goal. But the opportunity for Danault to make that play happens much more frequently and the impediment from the other team to stop him from skating hard is less than the impediment to Scherbak scoring. It doesn't mean Scherbak isn't doing his job well or putting in any less effort to succeed, it just means that the scorer's job is harder. That's why there are not a lot of 30-goal scorers in the league and why there are a ton of guys that you can pick up as free agents or on waivers who can come in and do the job of a bottom 6 player. Byron was a waiver wire pick-up. Deslauriers was acquired for peanuts. We got Mitchell and Flynn and Prust and so on before them without giving up anything of note, and in 2-3 years, we'll probably have moved on from Deslauriers and found another cheaper, younger option to do his job, the same way we moved on from hardworking but less talented players like Mathieu Darche and Mathie Dandenault and Jeff Halpern and Ryan White and Glen Metropolit.

My point is that if you measure a sniper's success by how many goals they score and a plumber's success by how hard they try and how many bodychecks they throw or how many times they clear the puck from the zone, you're going to recall a lot more "successful occurrences" for the plumber. The denominators in those situations are not the same and the skillset needed to accomplish those goals are not comparable. When it comes to scorers, you simply have to live with the fact that it's a harder job to score and it's not going to happen every night or even every second game. I want to see guys contributing to the PP. I want to see guys creating scoring chances and putting pucks on net. I want to know that we're establishing puck possession in the O zone. I want to know what percentage of breakouts we turn into offensive shots and scoring chances. Those are going to be much more comparable measures of how a player like Scherbak is doing relative to those 4th liners. And given that Scherbak is no longer waiver-eligible, now is really the time to know what he can do. You can't stick him in the pressbox and say he's not performing. You can't put him on the 4th line and claim he doesn't create anything. He needs to be in the top 9 and preferably the top 6 and you need to give him 15-20 games to properly evaluate him. Given the Plekanec injury and the fact Deslauriers doesn't bring a wide skillset and the fact Armia has really struggled IMO, there's an opening in the line-up and specifically an opening on the RW position in the top 9 if you ask me. I'd love to know what Scherbak can do next to Drouin and one of Domi or Kotkaniemi.

 

 

 

I really haven't seen enough of Scherbak to confidently evaluate his work ethic. But I think that in a very general sense, regardless of whether its a skill guy or a plumber, I expect to see the same level of effort. Flynn was a bum, not because he didn't produce points, but because all he really did was skate up and down the ice. Floaters are floaters. If Scherbak has the skill that we think he does, and plays as hard as Gallagher, he will produce. I just hope we get to see what he can do sooner than later!

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10 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

Has  Armia really struggled? i am all for giving Sherbek a real shot but at the end of the day i don't see him getting it done, i really want to see him get a solid look before we make a decision one way or the other though as you will never be sure unless we do.

Yeah, Armia has struggled. He actually played well tonight, but for a guy who played half the games in the top 6 and the other half on the 3rd line, he doesn't have much to show for the opportunity he's been given. He's been on the PP every game with a regular shift and he hasn't really done anything there either. I'm not saying you sit him forever or that you don't come back to him, but he's looked like a 4th line winger to me. I'd rather see what Scherbak can do, and maybe he flops, but the upside to Scherbak is higher.

5 hours ago, MALMACIAN_CRUNCH said:

I really haven't seen enough of Scherbak to confidently evaluate his work ethic. But I think that in a very general sense, regardless of whether its a skill guy or a plumber, I expect to see the same level of effort. Flynn was a bum, not because he didn't produce points, but because all he really did was skate up and down the ice. Floaters are floaters. If Scherbak has the skill that we think he does, and plays as hard as Gallagher, he will produce. I just hope we get to see what he can do sooner than later!

Scherbak could end up being awful, but I'll say the same thing I said about Galchenyuk and McCarron and Hudon and Sekac and so on: you need to know. You can't have a skill player and stick them on the 4th line and play them 6 minutes a game and then proclaim they didn't get the job done. If you have a player that you project as a top 6-9 player, you need to know what they can do in that role with the appropriate linemates.

And no, I don't think Scherbak will ever have Gallagher's work ethic, but I also don't think Gallagher has Scherbak's puck skill. It remains to be seen if Scherbak will do anything with that skill, but he also has to be given a chance to show he can or cannot do it.

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13 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Yeah, Armia has struggled. He actually played well tonight, but for a guy who played half the games in the top 6 and the other half on the 3rd line, he doesn't have much to show for the opportunity he's been given. He's been on the PP every game with a regular shift and he hasn't really done anything there either. I'm not saying you sit him forever or that you don't come back to him, but he's looked like a 4th line winger to me. I'd rather see what Scherbak can do, and maybe he flops, but the upside to Scherbak is higher.

Scherbak could end up being awful, but I'll say the same thing I said about Galchenyuk and McCarron and Hudon and Sekac and so on: you need to know. You can't have a skill player and stick them on the 4th line and play them 6 minutes a game and then proclaim they didn't get the job done. If you have a player that you project as a top 6-9 player, you need to know what they can do in that role with the appropriate linemates.

And no, I don't think Scherbak will ever have Gallagher's work ethic, but I also don't think Gallagher has Scherbak's puck skill. It remains to be seen if Scherbak will do anything with that skill, but he also has to be given a chance to show he can or cannot do it.

Perhaps that is what they are doing with Armia.....

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Tonight is a great example of the state of the Habs, Sens and Habs are in roughly the same position in terms of expectations and being younger teams that are hopefully on the rise, but at the end of the day the Sens can put Stone and Duchene on the ice at 3 on 3 and the Habs have...Joel Armia and Mike Reilly. There's not a single star player on the roster and Gallagher is the only legitimate first line forward, there's still a long way to go.

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8 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Tonight is a great example of the state of the Habs, Sens and Habs are in roughly the same position in terms of expectations and being younger teams that are hopefully on the rise, but at the end of the day the Sens can put Stone and Duchene on the ice at 3 on 3 and the Habs have...Joel Armia and Mike Reilly. There's not a single star player on the roster and Gallagher is the only legitimate first line forward, there's still a long way to go.

Actually, I believe they have more than just that... it just requires the coaches management of the situation to be more astute. And for some, like Drouin, being a little less risky at times.

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15 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I  did say I wonder if they are sitting Scherbak because Armia is a better player to learn from. I just think that Scherbak may be inserted on Kotkaniemi's wing after the 9 game Mark to provide more of an offensive threat and start to build chemistry if there is a plan for them to play together in the future.

I agree we should try to get Scherback in, Why they would plug a guy like Shaw who played like he was on his death bed or Delaurie in a ahead of Scherback/Hudon I am not sure. They seem  to be getting things some what right and then you see the lineup last night,  I have to shake my head. Why not Sherback, Peca and HUdon.

The coaches have already proven to themselves the more players that can play at a higher pace the better this team is.  

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13 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

I agree we should try to get Scherback in, Why they would plug a guy like Shaw who played like he was on his death bed or Delaurie in a ahead of Scherback/Hudon I am not sure. They seem  to be getting things some what right and then you see the lineup last night,  I have to shake my head. Why not Sherback, Peca and HUdon.

The coaches have already proven to themselves the more players that can play at a higher pace the better this team is.  

Marc Bergevin gave Shaw and Deslaurier their contracts... I think he may have had something to do with them playing. Same with Alzner I would suggest. That said, they do have to play if they want to build interest in trade value... I guess.

 

Of course y

they

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I watched two periods of Saturday's game. Pretty exciting first period. Follow up by a pretty disappointing second period.

It's just one game.

We're just seven games into the season... and our record is good (somehow).

Maybe we can draw some conclusions after 20-25 games. However, so far... I am still worried about this Price contract. I guess I will find it to be albatross-like for the next eight seasons. Also... Holy jeez, get Alzner out of the lineup. He's not good enough to be playing in our starting six.

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Definitely still early to predict which way things will go. I agree the Price contract may well be an albatross as time passes. And this season, as yet, I personally have not been impressed overall... flashes of desperation may appear brilliant yet there have been  too many times where poor judgement creates unwanted problems for his defense-men and himself. Positioning remains an issue that we didn't see so much in his better years.

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It's all about business. The business of winning the Stanley Cup. (Lord knows it's been a long long drought and it's way overdue for us)

It's not about our personal affections for one player or another, it's about getting the right team built in order to achieve our goal.

For that reason everyone is expendable in order to get it done IMO.

If it means trading Price, Plekanec, Weber, Alzner in order to obtain younger prospects then so be it.

Pacioretty and Galchenyuk are gone and the roof didn't cave in.

We're a few key players away from being contenders IMO.

Let's get it done.

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1 minute ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

If that's the case that MB is micromanaging our coaching staff as it was suspected last season, it will be our downfall once again IMO.

There was "some" discussion on TSN today about whether Mete' or Alzner would play tomorrow. 

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18 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

There was "some" discussion on TSN today about whether Mete' or Alzner would play tomorrow. 

There should be NO discussions on this matter. The obvious choice is Mete.

I get it that Alzner has an albatross of a contract, but please, someone swallow their pride and admit their mistake.

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If Mete is healthy, it should be a no-contest decision to play him over Alzner and also over Benn and Ouellet. Alzner was our worst player last game.

In the same category, Hudon told reporters he's frustrated by the line-up decisions, which you can be sure is a reference to the fact that he knows he's a lot better than teacher's pet Nicolas Deslauriers and somewhat better than Andrew Shaw and Peca too.

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49 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

If Mete is healthy, it should be a no-contest decision to play him over Alzner and also over Benn and Ouellet. Alzner was our worst player last game.

In the same category, Hudon told reporters he's frustrated by the line-up decisions, which you can be sure is a reference to the fact that he knows he's a lot better than teacher's pet Nicolas Deslauriers and somewhat better than Andrew Shaw and Peca too.

Agreed, I know it's not ideal but we should definitely just put Alzner on waivers no one will trade for him but if they feel there is enough of an upside they may claim him off waivers, Doubtful but possible. As for Shaw and Deslauriers they should be traded for at least picks or other 3rd 4th liners. Wouldn't mind one of the infamous one for one MB trades for either of them as we couldn't possibly get worse players in return.

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Agreed, I know it's not ideal but we should definitely just put Alzner on waivers no one will trade for him but if they feel there is enough of an upside they may claim him off waivers, Doubtful but possible. As for Shaw and Deslauriers they should be traded for at least picks or other 3rd 4th liners. Wouldn't mind one of the infamous one for one MB trades for either of them as we couldn't possibly get worse players in return.

We would have to eat some salary for Alzner.

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7 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

If Mete is healthy, it should be a no-contest decision to play him over Alzner and also over Benn and Ouellet. Alzner was our worst player last game.

In the same category, Hudon told reporters he's frustrated by the line-up decisions, which you can be sure is a reference to the fact that he knows he's a lot better than teacher's pet Nicolas Deslauriers and somewhat better than Andrew Shaw and Peca too.

As good as his numbers may have been last season, he is what he is and frankly we don't need him to dress regularly. Keep him in the press box and for the love of god, let's not scratch Hudon because of him.

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From what I read it seems Mete has the same injury that kept him out of the lineup at the end of last season. For that reason they do not want to put him back in until 100% sure he will be okay. 

It is time to move on from Alzner and Benn lets hope that will happen at some point soon.

 

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