H_T_L

2018-19 If I were GM

459 posts in this topic

Yup,,,, he's still on the job.:rolleyes:

What would you do different this season?

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5 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Yup,,,, he's still on the job.:rolleyes:

What would you do different this season?

Is suicide an option? :P

 

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I was impressed with Michael Chaput's game vs. the Devils... weren't you? I think he deserves a serious look going forward... a dynamo type player who makes things happen similar to Gallagher IMO.

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1 hour ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I was impressed with Michael Chaput's game vs. the Devils... weren't you? I think he deserves a serious look going forward... a dynamo type player who makes things happen similar to Gallagher IMO.

He played well, but there's probably a reason he's been more or less a career AHLer to date. He's yet another smaller player, and if you look at the Habs line-up, it's full of small perimeter players who can pass but aren't elite goal-scorers and don't play a very physical game. Not sure Chaput is going to supplant someone else like Byron, Domi, Hudon, Drouin, Tatar, etc. I think he'll be a good AHLer who can be called up to fill in for injury, but I have a hard time seeing him making the team out of camp. IMO, this team is screaming more for a guy like Scherbak to step up as a goal-scorer.

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it showed a bit last night that we have some good set up men but are short on guys to pull the trigger.

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our biggest problem right now is mid-tier depth.  We have a couple of guys (Gallagher, Drouin) who are arguably 1st line players,  a lot of guys who are 2-3rd line and a whole team worth of 4th line.  On d, we have 1 or 2 guys who are top 4,  a couple more who may be (or may grow into) 2nd pairing and then a boatload of 3rd pairing guys.

My hope (and im sure its a dream) is that MB would now package some of those older guys for prospects and picks.  Move guys like Benn, Schlemko, Alzner (if you can),  Byron (like him but he's getting older & how many middle 6 wingers do we need?), Shaw, etc etc.   

This team is going to sink or swim by carey price this year, regardless of who is in front of him.   Move out the older players Marc.   Its time to accept the rebuild. 

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23 minutes ago, maas_art said:

our biggest problem right now is mid-tier depth.  We have a couple of guys (Gallagher, Drouin) who are arguably 1st line players,  a lot of guys who are 2-3rd line and a whole team worth of 4th line.  On d, we have 1 or 2 guys who are top 4,  a couple more who may be (or may grow into) 2nd pairing and then a boatload of 3rd pairing guys.

My hope (and im sure its a dream) is that MB would now package some of those older guys for prospects and picks.  Move guys like Benn, Schlemko, Alzner (if you can),  Byron (like him but he's getting older & how many middle 6 wingers do we need?), Shaw, etc etc.   

This team is going to sink or swim by carey price this year, regardless of who is in front of him.   Move out the older players Marc.   Its time to accept the rebuild. 

I wonder if Price will settle for being a part of a rebuild or demand a trade to a better team.

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other than gallagher we have no 1st line players, maybe a few draft picks and some of 3rd 4th liners, we could grab at least 1 more top line guy, would love to see drouin or domi step in and fill those roles, but i'm not sure they can, i would love a rebuild but if we can win now we need some good trades, no more pluggers, and price to have the best season of his career.

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Just now, Larry-Launstein-Jr said:

I wonder if Price will settle for being a part of a rebuild or demand a trade to a better team.

Its an interesting question.  If he comes back & plays like an MVP we could certainly use the haul he would bring (yes, i know historically goalies dont do well in trades but elite goalies - top 3 or so - break that rule) but there's historical evidence for goalies often being able to play long past the 'prime years' of other players, so if he buys into the rebuild there's  no reason to think he wouldnt believe we're going to be a contender in 3-4 years. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

our biggest problem right now is mid-tier depth.  We have a couple of guys (Gallagher, Drouin) who are arguably 1st line players,  a lot of guys who are 2-3rd line and a whole team worth of 4th line.  On d, we have 1 or 2 guys who are top 4,  a couple more who may be (or may grow into) 2nd pairing and then a boatload of 3rd pairing guys.

My hope (and im sure its a dream) is that MB would now package some of those older guys for prospects and picks.  Move guys like Benn, Schlemko, Alzner (if you can),  Byron (like him but he's getting older & how many middle 6 wingers do we need?), Shaw, etc etc.   

This team is going to sink or swim by carey price this year, regardless of who is in front of him.   Move out the older players Marc.   Its time to accept the rebuild. 

 

37 minutes ago, jwlk said:

other than gallagher we have no 1st line players, maybe a few draft picks and some of 3rd 4th liners, we could grab at least 1 more top line guy, would love to see drouin or domi step in and fill those roles, but i'm not sure they can, i would love a rebuild but if we can win now we need some good trades, no more pluggers, and price to have the best season of his career.

Here's how I view our forwards in terms of what "line" they fit on:

- Gallagher is a 1st line player

- Drouin was a little erratic in performance last year, but I think as a LW he's an acceptable first-line player. As a center, he's not.

- Domi is a 2nd line player, but again, remains to be seen if he can perform at center.

- Danault is a 3rd line center

- Plekanec, Peca, and DLR are all 4th line centers

- Lehkonen, Hudon, Armia, Tatar, and Scherbak are all capable of being 3rd line players or better; with more ice time and opportunity, I think at least 2 of them will be good enough this year to be labelled 2nd line wingers.

- Byron is a 3rd line winger.

- Shaw is a 3rd to 4th line winger

So when I look at that, I think we actually have pretty good depth at the wing position and enough guys to fill all the holes, assuming Drouin starts as the 1LW. We also have guys to fill out the center spots on the bottom two lines, as we did last year. But there are two to three problems with the line-up:

1. There is an appreciable lack of top 6 centers. Maybe Domi becomes a 2nd line center, but we're asking him not only to do that but to become a 1C having played little to no center as an NHL center before. Then, with the domino effect, we're asking a 2C to be a 2C, a 4C to be a 3C and so on. Lots of guys out of place and that just brings down every line.

2. Almost all of the players I listed in the top 9 positions are smaller players or guys who don't play with much physicality, and they're almost all pass-first offensively. Drouin and Domi both commented on that in interviews this week, saying they've discussed how someone's going to have to shoot even though they all like passing more. So while some of the players individually might be good enough to fill certain holes, the way the team has been composed leaves something to be desired - there's a lot of the same type of player and not a lot of bruising power forwards or scoring centers or snipers. That's on Bergevin for bad asset management.

3. I'll tack this on as well, but when we rank players as being 1st or 2nd liners or so on, it's on the basis of the 31st best player at one position being in the same category as the top 5 guys in that spot, which isn't actually the case. I believe Drouin can be one of the top 31 LW's in the league and I believe Gallagher is in the top 31 at RW and I believe Lehkonen or Hudon or so on can be in the top 60-90 at their position, but this team doesn't have a top 10 player at any forward position after trading Pacioretty. I'm not even convinced we have a top 50 center in the league. We finally have center prospects who might become top 50 centers in a few years, but for now, we're simply missing the high-end talent. So this isn't like Pit, where you have Crosby and Malkin and Kessel and then it's okay to have guys who are lower-end for their respective line-up spots. It's not like we have a McDavid and Draisaitl at the top or a Matthews-Tavares-Kadri or a Giroux-Couturier-Simmonds-Voracek or a Stamkos-Johnson-Kucherov or an Ovechkin-Kuznetsov-Backstrom or so on. There are tons of teams who have 2, 3, or even 5 guys who are better forwards than our top guy. That wasn't the case when our top end was Pacioretty-Radulov-Galchenyuk, but there's a marked drop-off with those players gone. So yes, I believe Drouin and Gallagher are "1st-line caliber" but that doesn't negate the fact that we're not very high up within each of those echelons. Our 4th line players might be good for 4th liners, but our top-line players aren't... kind of like having the 28th overall pick and just labeling it a "1st rounder" is very different than having a top 5 pick. We may have a lot of "mid-round picks" but at some point, you need quality and not just quantity.

 

 

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On 9/18/2018 at 2:43 PM, maas_art said:

Its an interesting question.  If he comes back & plays like an MVP we could certainly use the haul he would bring (yes, i know historically goalies dont do well in trades but elite goalies - top 3 or so - break that rule) but there's historical evidence for goalies often being able to play long past the 'prime years' of other players, so if he buys into the rebuild there's  no reason to think he wouldnt believe we're going to be a contender in 3-4 years. 

I think the only way you get rid of Price is when Seattle comes in.

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4 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I think the only way you get rid of Price is when Seattle comes in.

if he plays well, we can move him

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47 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I think the only way you get rid of Price is when Seattle comes in.

Strongly disagree.   If he comes back as MVP price, he would have plenty of suitors. The problem would be finding the best mix (you'd need a team that needed an elite goalie, had the cap space and had enough young players to be interesting) but there would be a deal to be had.   

Unfortunately I dont think we'll ever know because Mb wont do it - he's ours until MB is gone

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Price has a NMC so really if he doesnt want to go anywhere then its a moot point.

Would I be onboard with trading him, 100%. 

To me priority one would be trading weber. ASAP. This deadline.  to put it in perspective, the rangers just traded mcdonagh. like its a no-brainer, automatic next step

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36 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

Price has a NMC so really if he doesnt want to go anywhere then its a moot point.

Would I be onboard with trading him, 100%. 

To me priority one would be trading weber. ASAP. This deadline.  to put it in perspective, the rangers just traded mcdonagh. like its a no-brainer, automatic next step

Ultimately, (re the NMC) yes.  However, 9 times out of 10 when a team approaches a player & says "will you waive your clause" they agree because, lets face it: who wants to work for an organization that doesnt want you?     But i think its still moot because i dont believe Price will be moved as long as MB is in charge.

100% agree about Weber. I like him but we need to move him while he still has value. Unfortunately MB all but confirmed he wont move him when speaking with Marinaro recently. "I asked Marc Bergevin if he will consider trading Shea Weber seeing as he wants to make team younger. Bergevin says he wants a culture. Says young players need a pro, a mentor. Says it is very important to have a guy like that part of your team. And they have that with Shea Weber" 

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39 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Ultimately, (re the NMC) yes.  However, 9 times out of 10 when a team approaches a player & says "will you waive your clause" they agree because, lets face it: who wants to work for an organization that doesnt want you?     But i think its still moot because i dont believe Price will be moved as long as MB is in charge.

100% agree about Weber. I like him but we need to move him while he still has value. Unfortunately MB all but confirmed he wont move him when speaking with Marinaro recently. "I asked Marc Bergevin if he will consider trading Shea Weber seeing as he wants to make team younger. Bergevin says he wants a culture. Says young players need a pro, a mentor. Says it is very important to have a guy like that part of your team. And they have that with Shea Weber" 

translation: " I really didnt like subban and wanted to trade him for personal reasons, and I thought weber had enough name-value that I could sell it to the fans, and personally I foolishly thought that his intangibles would outweigh subban's tangibles. As it turned out, I got absolutely taken to the cleaners and made this team significantly worse. Because my ego is bigger than the good of the team, I couldnt possibly trade Shea because that would be perceived as admission that I made a really stupid move, and Im straight up not doing it no matter how much sense it makes."

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

translation: " I really didnt like subban and wanted to trade him for personal reasons, and I thought weber had enough name-value that I could sell it to the fans, and personally I foolishly thought that his intangibles would outweigh subban's tangibles. As it turned out, I got absolutely taken to the cleaners and made this team significantly worse. Because my ego is bigger than the good of the team, I couldnt possibly trade Shea because that would be perceived as admission that I made a really stupid move, and Im straight up not doing it no matter how much sense it makes."

:4224:

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1 hour ago, jeff33 said:

translation: " I really didnt like subban and wanted to trade him for personal reasons, and I thought weber had enough name-value that I could sell it to the fans, and personally I foolishly thought that his intangibles would outweigh subban's tangibles. As it turned out, I got absolutely taken to the cleaners and made this team significantly worse. Because my ego is bigger than the good of the team, I couldnt possibly trade Shea because that would be perceived as admission that I made a really stupid move, and Im straight up not doing it no matter how much sense it makes."

Marc, is that you?

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An interesting article on HEOTP today suggesting we should look at the cost of Josh Ho-Sang.   He was sent to the minors today (no waivers) and there's the belief that he doesnt fit into the islander's plans.

He's always been an enigma - all world talent and a mouth to match - but there's no denying his skill.   Could a change of scenery be the answer?  The suggestion is that he might come quite cheaply - perhaps at the cost of multiple depth assets - for example:

DLR + McCarron  or Lernout

for

Ho-Sang


So you do a couple of things:  1) you potentially upgrade talent (albeit HoSang is far from a sure thing to make the NHL, while DLR is most likely a competent 4th liner).   2) you move 2 waiver eligible players and get one back who doesnt have to clear them.  

You could potentially change that to something DLR + Schlemko or Benn  too.    

Thoughts?   My guess is that MB has no interest in Ho Sang's 'attitude'  although he did trade for another disgruntled, talented young winger in Drouin so... 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

An interesting article on HEOTP today suggesting we should look at the cost of Josh Ho-Sang.   He was sent to the minors today (no waivers) and there's the belief that he doesnt fit into the islander's plans.

He's always been an enigma - all world talent and a mouth to match - but there's no denying his skill.   Could a change of scenery be the answer?  The suggestion is that he might come quite cheaply - perhaps at the cost of multiple depth assets - for example:

DLR + McCarron  or Lernout

for

Ho-Sang


So you do a couple of things:  1) you potentially upgrade talent (albeit HoSang is far from a sure thing to make the NHL, while DLR is most likely a competent 4th liner).   2) you move 2 waiver eligible players and get one back who doesnt have to clear them.  

You could potentially change that to something DLR + Schlemko or Benn  too.    

Thoughts?   My guess is that MB has no interest in Ho Sang's 'attitude'  although he did trade for another disgruntled, talented young winger in Drouin so... 

Give him "the T-shirt". I'm sure he'll fall in line. :ph34r:

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IIWGM, I'd have my eye on the waiver wire for defencemen. Right now, we have 5 NHL-caliber D men left in camp: Mete, Petry, Juulsen, Reilly, and Ouellet. The last two are best suited to being on the 3rd pairing. So we're in dire need of NHLers and Benn, Alzner, Schlemko, and Despres just aren't. I'd hedge a bet that there is at least one D man made available via waivers or trade who is better than what we have already.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

IIWGM, I'd have my eye on the waiver wire for defencemen. Right now, we have 5 NHL-caliber D men left in camp: Mete, Petry, Juulsen, Reilly, and Ouellet. The last two are best suited to being on the 3rd pairing. So we're in dire need of NHLers and Benn, Alzner, Schlemko, and Despres just aren't. I'd hedge a bet that there is at least one D man made available via waivers or trade who is better than what we have already.

I still think Alzner has potential to be a decent 3rd pairing/PK specialist.  Its insane to pay him the sort of money we are, but it is what it is, no one is taking him.  Alzner-Juulsen looked pretty fair for a stretch last season.  The rest id dump immediately.   When everyone is healthy:

Reilly - Weber
Mete - Petry
Alzner/Ouellette - Juulsen

Isnt great but isnt a train wreck either.   Giving Benn, Schlemko AND Alzner minutes is going to tank whatever good the rest of the roster may be able to maintain. 

Mind you, if the plan is to tank, then by all means, play those three.  Heck, send Mete/Juulsen to the minors!

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So its pretty clear that our coaches (FINALLY) are evaluating our defensive talent better.

Top 4 right now is Mete-Petry,  Reilly-Juulsen  When Weber comes back he's obviously in that mix that last spot is most likely going to go to Oullette, Kulak, Olaffson or similar.   That means we currently have some dead weight on the blue-line.   Benn is probably the easiest moved - we wont get a huge return, but we could get a mid to late pick.  Same with Schlemko although he seems to spend more time on the IR than Benoit Brunet in his prime.  Based on their contracts, either one of them could be retained as defensive depth too. 

The big issue, obviously, is Alzner.   $4.6m for 4 more years.   And he cant crack our top 6, with Weber and Schlemko injured.  Yikes.   

So what do we do?  I think its pretty safe he has zero trade value.  When we signed him there were apparently (at least) 4 other offers - but I dont think any of those GMs would take him on now.  His value is not just gone, its probably negative.   So what do you do?  

We could possibly trade him for a different bad contract but i dont think thats a great idea too - if there's one thing we have its too many players.  

But what if you sweetened the pot?   Im thinking something like:

Alzner + Scherbak

for

A solid defensive prospect

 

There's obviously a risk because Scherbak could still be a top line player, but with our glut of wingers, will he get the chance in our organization?  It would need to be to a team that wants young players, has cap room and has a lack of depth on defense (so that Karl Alzner would actually get playing time, albeit probably 3rd pair).   Arizona maybe?  

Would you do it?   

 

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, maas_art said:

So its pretty clear that our coaches (FINALLY) are evaluating our defensive talent better.

Top 4 right now is Mete-Petry,  Reilly-Juulsen  When Weber comes back he's obviously in that mix that last spot is most likely going to go to Oullette, Kulak, Olaffson or similar.   That means we currently have some dead weight on the blue-line.   Benn is probably the easiest moved - we wont get a huge return, but we could get a mid to late pick.  Same with Schlemko although he seems to spend more time on the IR than Benoit Brunet in his prime.  Based on their contracts, either one of them could be retained as defensive depth too. 

The big issue, obviously, is Alzner.   $4.6m for 4 more years.   And he cant crack our top 6, with Weber and Schlemko injured.  Yikes.   

So what do we do?  I think its pretty safe he has zero trade value.  When we signed him there were apparently (at least) 4 other offers - but I dont think any of those GMs would take him on now.  His value is not just gone, its probably negative.   So what do you do?  

We could possibly trade him for a different bad contract but i dont think thats a great idea too - if there's one thing we have its too many players.  

But what if you sweetened the pot?   Im thinking something like:

Alzner + Scherbak

for

A solid defensive prospect

 

There's obviously a risk because Scherbak could still be a top line player, but with our glut of wingers, will he get the chance in our organization?  It would need to be to a team that wants young players, has cap room and has a lack of depth on defense (so that Karl Alzner would actually get playing time, albeit probably 3rd pair).   Arizona maybe?  

Would you do it?  

Scherbak is already seen by some as a flop, so not sure even he himself is going to get us a top prospect. I think we'd have to add more to dump Alzner without taking back a problem contract too (albeit maybe we could take back a shorter-term bad contract).

The other possibility is a flat-out buyout. if we buy him out next summer, we get hit with cap hits of 1.1, 4..2, 2.2, 1.1, 1.1, and 1.1M over the next 6 years. So two years from now would really be the problem year, albeit really no worse than keeping him on the roster for 3 more years at a 4.6M cap hit. if we wait until the summer of 2020 to buy him out, we get with 4.0, 2.0, 0.8, and 0.8M cap hits over 4 years. It's easily a better idea to buy him out if we're not going to play him and can't trade him, rather than just having him take up 4.6M of cap space to sit in the pressbox.

 

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