H_T_L

2018-19 If I were GM

819 posts in this topic

7 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

An interesting article from Pat Hickey in yesterday on Marner, who thinks we should offer sheet him. 

https://montrealgazette.com/sports/hockey/nhl/hockey-inside-out/hickey-on-hockey-5

One of the things I think is quite interesting that the article does point out is that only two of the top 25 scores is still in the playoffs and how the need for a top elite sniper or player isn't really needed for a long playoff run. The difference might be though during the season that top sniper may help insure you make the playoffs. I do think there should be always be a great deal of caution though about offer sheets. We could possibly be in a tough situation if say KK, Suzuki , Domi all exploded and were top flight players. Would we want to lose Suzuki in 3 years if he exploded and Poeling KK Domi and maybe others were now all needing big money at the same time while still having Price Weber ect. on the books. Once you do it other teams will target you and also may make it that no one else wants or will deal with you because of the offer sheet. I'm sure all GM's are wary of this especially with the cap. So you make a great deal and help cripple another team , but then all the other GM's decide no one will deal with you again. Small knit group with good memories. I would like to see Panarin of players available but don't want to break the bank either. That doesn't mean we couldn't make an offer to Toronto for Mariner we have some good right D prospects they may be interested in maybe add Suzuki and a first and second pick. Suzuki may help replace the offense and be cheap Jullisen Brook Flurey ect. may entice them because they need defense and they wouldn't hurt Toronto's cap. I like Suzuki and our upcoming young d but realistically you're not going to get Mariner for journey man we're willing to give up.

Montreal - Mariner

Toronto- Suzuki, Julliesen , 1st & 2nd pick.

 

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What if MTL were to offer to take on Ryan Callahan and buy him out?  Do you suppose Brisebois would kick in Ryan McDonaugh?  It would give us the top pairing LD we need.  Maybe a deal like: Hudon and Kulak for Callaghan and McDonaugh?  TB’s playoff run was incredibly short and they need a ton of cap space

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5 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

What if MTL were to offer to take on Ryan Callahan and buy him out?  Do you suppose Brisebois would kick in Ryan McDonaugh?  It would give us the top pairing LD we need.  Maybe a deal like: Hudon and Kulak for Callaghan and McDonaugh?  TB’s playoff run was incredibly short and they need a ton of cap space

That is very interesting, The have Sergichev and also Hedman already. McDonaugh still looked good and may be a good stop gap. We could still try to draft a future LD maybe even trade up in the draft.

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Just now, CaptWelly said:

That is very interesting, The have Sergichev and also Hedman already. McDonaugh still looked good and may be a good stop gap. We could still try to draft a future LD maybe even trade up in the draft.

The only thing that really hinders the deal is McD’s ntc.  There’s no guarantee he’ll wave it

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1 minute ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

The only thing that really hinders the deal is McD’s ntc.  There’s no guarantee he’ll wave it

Hmmmm, warm sunny state , team close to cup contention (should be) , no state taxes , no media pressure Hockey not major news in Florida along with he's not the focus of his current team  VS Montreal beautiful city weather ...well , taxes ..well , Fans great (as long as you're performing) , Media well , but you never know maybe ?

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On 5/16/2019 at 10:52 AM, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I feel that way too and if anything he could be used as trade bait to upgrade using a team tight against the cap as a trade partner.  I did mention Pittsburgh and Olli Maata as an example.  Their depth is so horrible, a guy like Kulak would be a welcome edition.

I saw the article below and was amazed that the author would even consider the trade as a win for the Pens. He suggested that the Habs should trade Shaw straight up for Maata. A deal I would take in a heartbeat and I would consider to be ridiculous. Take a read

https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/5/19/18631476/exploring-the-possibilities-for-trading-penguins-defenseman-olli-maatta

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25 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I saw the article below and was amazed that the author would even consider the trade as a win for the Pens. He suggested that the Habs should trade Shaw straight up for Maata. A deal I would take in a heartbeat and I would consider to be ridiculous. Take a read

https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/5/19/18631476/exploring-the-possibilities-for-trading-penguins-defenseman-olli-maatta

I would make this trade but I think its ridiculous. Maata is not that great and Shaw has been injured a lot but an amazing player on a good contract when he isn't. 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

I saw the article below and was amazed that the author would even consider the trade as a win for the Pens. He suggested that the Habs should trade Shaw straight up for Maata. A deal I would take in a heartbeat and I would consider to be ridiculous. Take a read

https://www.pensburgh.com/2019/5/19/18631476/exploring-the-possibilities-for-trading-penguins-defenseman-olli-maatta

 

1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I would make this trade but I think its ridiculous. Maata is not that great and Shaw has been injured a lot but an amazing player on a good contract when he isn't. 

Yeah I would actually rank Shaw as the better player but with much more in the way of question marks. Its why its probably a fair deal -  shaw comes with more risk but higher reward.  Maatta is a decent mid-tier player. Both are young-ish but Maatta gets the nod by a few years.   For us, a guy like Maatta would be more important/valuable on this roster than Shaw, especially with guys like Suzuki and Poehling possibly joining the mix.  There's a good chance if we go after anyone in free agency it will be a forward too so we could possibly afford to lose shaw. 


You could argue that Maatta still has the potential to be a top 3 dman - and he'd likely be our top LD by default but the question is whether he could handle true top pairing minutes. Id still rather give up someone (even better than shaw- ie Drouin) and get someone who is undisputedly our best LD.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

 

Yeah I would actually rank Shaw as the better player but with much more in the way of question marks. Its why its probably a fair deal -  shaw comes with more risk but higher reward.  Maatta is a decent mid-tier player. Both are young-ish but Maatta gets the nod by a few years.   For us, a guy like Maatta would be more important/valuable on this roster than Shaw, especially with guys like Suzuki and Poehling possibly joining the mix.  There's a good chance if we go after anyone in free agency it will be a forward too so we could possibly afford to lose shaw. 


You could argue that Maatta still has the potential to be a top 3 dman - and he'd likely be our top LD by default but the question is whether he could handle true top pairing minutes. Id still rather give up someone (even better than shaw- ie Drouin) and get someone who is undisputedly our best LD.

I don't know what to do with Maatta right now... he definitely has some potential but he's had his fair share of injuries too, and he's never been able to fully put his game together for a full season. I still think he has a lot to prove, and I wonder if he's really any better than Victor Mete for example. Would Maatta be an upgrade for us over Benn or Alzner or Folin? Absolutely. But I see him as being a #3-4-5 defenceman and probably not someone who fills our need for a top pairing LHD right now. He probably fills exactly the same role as Mete, and Kulak is an almost-as-good-and-some-might-argue-just-as-good option who could provide good 3rd-pairing minutes at a fraction of the cost.

So like you, I think the way to go is to give up more to get more. I'd rather target a Werenski via RFA offer sheet or trade or a Gostisbehere via trade or so on. Get a guy with more offensive upside who has more potential as a top-pairing player as opposed to another middle-of-the-pack option. We have guys who can be middle of the pack, and we need a player who can be a top 2-3 guy reliably right now.

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18 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I don't know what to do with Maatta right now... he definitely has some potential but he's had his fair share of injuries too, and he's never been able to fully put his game together for a full season. I still think he has a lot to prove, and I wonder if he's really any better than Victor Mete for example. Would Maatta be an upgrade for us over Benn or Alzner or Folin? Absolutely. But I see him as being a #3-4-5 defenceman and probably not someone who fills our need for a top pairing LHD right now. He probably fills exactly the same role as Mete, and Kulak is an almost-as-good-and-some-might-argue-just-as-good option who could provide good 3rd-pairing minutes at a fraction of the cost.

So like you, I think the way to go is to give up more to get more. I'd rather target a Werenski via RFA offer sheet or trade or a Gostisbehere via trade or so on. Get a guy with more offensive upside who has more potential as a top-pairing player as opposed to another middle-of-the-pack option. We have guys who can be middle of the pack, and we need a player who can be a top 2-3 guy reliably right now.

See the problem MTL is running into with LD's is the same problem they ran into at Centre.  Nobody's offering up a top pairing LD and the one's that are want all of our good prospects that we don't really want to part with.  Maatta has put up 29 points twice in this league and the gamble that you're hoping pays off in acquiring a guy like Olli Maatta is that the change of scenery could elevate his game.  Your hoping for "The Jeff Petry Effect" for the 24 year old Finn.  Having said all that, I would go no higher than Hudon and/or Reilly and/or Kulak.  Get a young D for pennies on the dollar.

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30 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

See the problem MTL is running into with LD's is the same problem they ran into at Centre.  Nobody's offering up a top pairing LD and the one's that are want all of our good prospects that we don't really want to part with.  Maatta has put up 29 points twice in this league and the gamble that you're hoping pays off in acquiring a guy like Olli Maatta is that the change of scenery could elevate his game.  Your hoping for "The Jeff Petry Effect" for the 24 year old Finn.  Having said all that, I would go no higher than Hudon and/or Reilly and/or Kulak.  Get a young D for pennies on the dollar.

I agree with everything you said

I would prefer not to trade Kulak but rather than Shaw, I'd rather Armia and maybe a 4th. If we are trading Shaw for Maatta, I think we should get a third back too

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I like to think of what seat we have everyone in. In other words, where are the holes in the line-up if everyone is in the ideal spot? So this is where I see players fitting in right now:

________-Domi-Gallagher

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-________

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw

Byron-Poehling-Armia

Weal

 

______-Petry

Mete-Weber

Kulak-Juulsen

Reilly

 

Price

______

 

You can move players from line 1 to line 2 or so on.  But I think in general, we already have a fantastic bottom 6 and we already have 6 of our 7 D spots filled with legitimately decent players in those positions. We just have 3 holes that could be upgraded. Back-up goalie is probably an easier spot to fill, and maybe the answer is already here with Lindgren or McNiven, so I won't address that further.

The ideal solutions here to fill those 3 holes are IMO:

1. Sign Skinner or barring that, a player like Lee, Duchene, Panarin, etc. If it ends up being a center, you can always move Domi to the 1LW spot. But finding a scoring top 6 player should be the one thing the UFA market could yield us.

2. Hope that Suzuki is ready. If he is, he needs to play on a scoring line, so there's a hole ripe for the taking.

3. Trade Drouin for a 1st pairing LHD.

Anything on top of that is a bonus. If Suzuki isn't ready, then you start to move players up in spots where they're out of the right seat, but I think you can still make it work. But signing a top 6 forward and trading for a player like Werenski or Gostisbehere or Murray or Provorov or so on is where MB should be looking. I've already detailed why Clb might be desperate for picks, so maybe they would entertain Drouin + their own 2nd rounder for Werenski. If you can do that, for example, and sign Skinner, I think you have a really fantastic line-up:

Skinner-Domi-Suzuki

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw

Byron-Poehling-Armia

 

Werenski-Petry

Mete-Weber

Kulak-Juulsen

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48 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I like to think of what seat we have everyone in. In other words, where are the holes in the line-up if everyone is in the ideal spot? So this is where I see players fitting in right now:

________-Domi-Gallagher

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-________

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw

Byron-Poehling-Armia

Weal

 

______-Petry

Mete-Weber

Kulak-Juulsen

Reilly

 

Price

______

 

You can move players from line 1 to line 2 or so on.  But I think in general, we already have a fantastic bottom 6 and we already have 6 of our 7 D spots filled with legitimately decent players in those positions. We just have 3 holes that could be upgraded. Back-up goalie is probably an easier spot to fill, and maybe the answer is already here with Lindgren or McNiven, so I won't address that further.

The ideal solutions here to fill those 3 holes are IMO:

1. Sign Skinner or barring that, a player like Lee, Duchene, Panarin, etc. If it ends up being a center, you can always move Domi to the 1LW spot. But finding a scoring top 6 player should be the one thing the UFA market could yield us.

2. Hope that Suzuki is ready. If he is, he needs to play on a scoring line, so there's a hole ripe for the taking.

3. Trade Drouin for a 1st pairing LHD.

Anything on top of that is a bonus. If Suzuki isn't ready, then you start to move players up in spots where they're out of the right seat, but I think you can still make it work. But signing a top 6 forward and trading for a player like Werenski or Gostisbehere or Murray or Provorov or so on is where MB should be looking. I've already detailed why Clb might be desperate for picks, so maybe they would entertain Drouin + their own 2nd rounder for Werenski. If you can do that, for example, and sign Skinner, I think you have a really fantastic line-up:

Skinner-Domi-Suzuki

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Danault-Shaw

Byron-Poehling-Armia

 

Werenski-Petry

Mete-Weber

Kulak-Juulsen

I really like this lineup but would switch Suzuki with Gallagher until Suzuki earned top line minutes

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

I really like this lineup but would switch Suzuki with Gallagher until Suzuki earned top line minutes

I think they could be interchangeable, not sure which combo would be best. My reasoning:

1. Gallagher and Tatar played well together last year, so I kept them together.

2. Skinner would be the best pure sniper on the roster. I paired him with Suzuki because I think he has better puck distribution skills than Gallagher.

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14 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think they could be interchangeable, not sure which combo would be best. My reasoning:

1. Gallagher and Tatar played well together last year, so I kept them together.

2. Skinner would be the best pure sniper on the roster. I paired him with Suzuki because I think he has better puck distribution skills than Gallagher.

Yeah I just want KK to get the better shooters like everyone else I was soooo frustrated this year when he was setting up players and they were flubbing his plays lol

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18 hours ago, habsisme said:

I agree with everything you said

I would prefer not to trade Kulak but rather than Shaw, I'd rather Armia and maybe a 4th. If we are trading Shaw for Maatta, I think we should get a third back too

Unless Carolina is offering up Slavin or Vegas is offering up Theodore, I would think most of our youth futures are off limits.  I don't think MB is looking to do another major roster flip like last year.  I think he's looking to add to his core without subtracting from it greatly.  Here's what I honestly see as being our top options at LD:

 

Trade Block: Olli Maata, Nick Leddy, Oskar Klefbom (you get the idea)...You don't get a top pairing guy, but you get a guy similar to Petry who can play in your top 4 and play top pairing during injury times.

UFA: Jake Gardiner is the only real option and again you're getting a top 4 guy that you're most likely going to sign to petry money.

Rookies: Hope that Otto Leskinen or whoever we draft impresses enough in training camp to steal a spot.  

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53 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Unless Carolina is offering up Slavin or Vegas is offering up Theodore, I would think most of our youth futures are off limits.  I don't think MB is looking to do another major roster flip like last year.  I think he's looking to add to his core without subtracting from it greatly.  Here's what I honestly see as being our top options at LD:

 

Trade Block: Olli Maata, Nick Leddy, Oskar Klefbom (you get the idea)...You don't get a top pairing guy, but you get a guy similar to Petry who can play in your top 4 and play top pairing during injury times.

UFA: Jake Gardiner is the only real option and again you're getting a top 4 guy that you're most likely going to sign to petry money.

Rookies: Hope that Otto Leskinen or whoever we draft impresses enough in training camp to steal a spot.  

I agree with your general premise. I would be happy to get Slavin or Theodore (not sure the former is happening though after his importance to Carolina's playoff run), and I've gone over my wish list for players like Werenski, Provorov, Murray, Klefbom, or Sanheim. I think any of those guys can play in the top 4 to be honest. Cam Fowler's another name we've discussed who may or may not be available at the right price. There are trade options out there for sure.

The UFA market is really weak. The two guys out there are Edler and Gardiner and both are probably mistakes to sign to their believed asks. You can't do more than two years with Edler and he reportedly wants 3 or more. And with Gardiner, it's hard to justify going 5-6 years and I don't doubt someone will give him that at 6M a season, just because of the lack of supply.

If you compare the trade/RFA options vs. a UFA, essentially it comes down to this: say MB could have Gardiner for 6 years at 6M a season and it would be a done deal that he would come here. Now say on the other hand that he could acquire one of the above trade targets or sign one by giving up a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounder. The question then becomes, would you give up Gardiner on the above contract and the picks (or players/prospects if it's a trade) that you need to get the guy you really want. I'd do it. I'd rather give up picks to get Werenski than get Gardiner for no assets but have to have him signed for 6 years.

I don't think there's a viable internal solution for the upcoming season at left D. Leskinen is a depth player at best. We have depth players. We have Mete and Reilly and Kulak and so on. Those guys can fill out the 2nd and 3rd pairings. We need a guy who can play top pair. Romanov is the one lefty in the organization who might one day fit that bill, but we know he's not coming and even if he did, it's unlikely he'd be ready to take on that role from day 1. So IMO, it's got to be a trade or an offersheet to get it done.

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21 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I'd rather give up picks to get Werenski than get Gardiner for no assets but have to have him signed for 6 years.

This.  We're finally in a position to be able to move a forward & not have it impact us negatively. We already have 7-8 quality forwards and thats not even counting if we sign someone like Duchene or Skinner as UFA - and the potential addition of Poehling and/or Suzuki.    Time to deal from a position of strength to fill our weakness.  Like you, i dont see any viable internal solution right now.  We need to look elsewhere to fill that hole.   We're set on the right and we're set with #2 and #3 pairing left dmen.  

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20 hours ago, maas_art said:

This.  We're finally in a position to be able to move a forward & not have it impact us negatively. We already have 7-8 quality forwards and thats not even counting if we sign someone like Duchene or Skinner as UFA - and the potential addition of Poehling and/or Suzuki.    Time to deal from a position of strength to fill our weakness.  Like you, i dont see any viable internal solution right now.  We need to look elsewhere to fill that hole.   We're set on the right and we're set with #2 and #3 pairing left dmen.  

Here's my issues with attempting an offer sheet on Werenski:

 

1. Even if he agrees to an offer sheet, I absolutely hate the idea of giving up our 2020 1st rounder.  On the off chance that we our lottery bound for a 3rd straight year, I would absolutely detest the idea of potentially missing out on drafting Alexis Lafreniere.  Of all the "Next great Quebecois" faces of the franchise, Lafreniere is actually the real deal.  The thought of him going to CBJ with our pick (potentially)  makes my stomach turn.  

2. If we break the unwritten code and make an offer sheet on Werenski (Or Marner), then that opens the door to people driving up the prices on Kotkaniemi, Suzuki and Poehling when they offer sheet them.

3. It'll potentially ruin working relationships with other GM's.  Trades will become even more difficult to make.  Remember, trades are hard for old MB, an offer sheet will only make them harder.

 

IF MB wants a top leftie bad enough then he could make a similar offer to what Calgary made Don Sweeney for Dougie Hamilton.  Our 1st and one of our 2nd rounders this year and our 2nd next year.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Here's my issues with attempting an offer sheet on Werenski:

 

1. Even if he agrees to an offer sheet, I absolutely hate the idea of giving up our 2020 1st rounder.  On the off chance that we our lottery bound for a 3rd straight year, I would absolutely detest the idea of potentially missing out on drafting Alexis Lafreniere.  Of all the "Next great Quebecois" faces of the franchise, Lafreniere is actually the real deal.  The thought of him going to CBJ with our pick (potentially)  makes my stomach turn.  

2. If we break the unwritten code and make an offer sheet on Werenski (Or Marner), then that opens the door to people driving up the prices on Kotkaniemi, Suzuki and Poehling when they offer sheet them.

3. It'll potentially ruin working relationships with other GM's.  Trades will become even more difficult to make.  Remember, trades are hard for old MB, an offer sheet will only make them harder.

 

IF MB wants a top leftie bad enough then he could make a similar offer to what Calgary made Don Sweeney for Dougie Hamilton.  Our 1st and one of our 2nd rounders this year and our 2nd next year.

 

 

I agree I believe there is a big risk with an offer sheet and usually doesn't work out in the long run. Also as stated say Suzuki is great and KK and Poehling all turn out good. It would be easy at that time for another team to do the same to us and with reason also. So if that happened I would hope those fans wanting to go that route would be okay possibly losing our won players the same way. I know everyone wants a trade made and I agree that we finally have a surplus at forwards now. The only thing is everyone is suggesting players like Druoin and others that we are disappointed in. That doesn't mean even with draft picks or throw ins, that other teams to make a deal aren't going to want what we don't' want to give up. What if there is a #1 LD that a team is willing to part with but it means KK ,Domi, Suzuki, Poehling , Gallager ect. Are we then willing to make the trade?

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How are the Golden Knights going to deal with the cap next season? They already seem to have many players signed, pushing the limit based on what the salary cap might be for next season. Any chance we can go back to them for another trade? I believe people have mentioned Shea Theodore's name on here.

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Maybe you could structure a deal around Shea Theodore ($5.2 million cap hit, six years remaining) and someone like Erik Haula ($2.75 million cap hit, one year remaining) for Jonathan Drouin ($5.5 million cap hit, four years remaining) and a defensive prospect. Vegas gets an improvement at forward and some cap relief heading into 2019-2020 and we get an improvement on D.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Maybe you could structure a deal around Shea Theodore ($5.2 million cap hit, six years remaining) and someone like Erik Haula ($2.75 million cap hit, one year remaining) for Jonathan Drouin ($5.5 million cap hit, four years remaining) and a defensive prospect. Vegas gets an improvement at forward and some cap relief heading into 2019-2020 and we get an improvement on D.

We do have right handed D prospects that might interest them. This could be worth checking into. They may want someone other than Drouin though.

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1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

We do have right handed D prospects that might interest them. This could be worth checking into. They may want someone other than Drouin though.

IF and only IF we were guaranteed to sign Duchene, I would consider trading Domi if it meant fixing the LHD problem. Don't want to but would consider it. 

I think the best option out there for fixing the LHD issue is via trade using picks and Drouin, Lihkonen, Danault or Tatar and or prospects, the Ideal teams to target are Florida, Nashville, Edmonton, Anaheim, Philadelphia and Vegas. We have 3 picks in the top 50 this year, We could give up the 15th and a second rounder + Lihkonen\Drouin + Fluery for a top LHD or something to that effect.

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