H_T_L

2018-19 If I were GM

819 posts in this topic

On 10/21/2018 at 5:52 PM, campabee82 said:

With the kings doing so badly thus far there is speculation that they are getting ready to make some moves soon if things don't turn around. Just wondering what everyone thinks the going rate for guys like Muzzin and Kempe are and if we could afford them

One player I might kick the tires on is Toffoli. Right handed shot, can play wing or center and has a pretty solid release. I think that would be a quality pick up. The question is what would the ask be?

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After watching the Oilers game from the stands I'm firmly convicted we need to get rid of Schlemko and Alzner.   Benn is fine if we limit him to the bottom pairing.     We need a mobile LHD that can replace those 2 guys and Weber back asap

LHD - Weber

Mete - Petry

Rielly - Juulsun

or depending on who we get 

Rielly - Weber

Mete - Petry

LHD - Juulsun (if the LHD is a vet 2way D that can help Juulsun learn)

Benn then becomes your 7th D.   Alzner/Schlemko gone.

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18 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

After watching the Oilers game from the stands I'm firmly convicted we need to get rid of Schlemko and Alzner.   Benn is fine if we limit him to the bottom pairing.     We need a mobile LHD that can replace those 2 guys and Weber back asap

Julien was using Schlemko a lot. I wonder if MB has asked them to do so so that he can show that Schlemko is healthy & therefore can be traded?  I cant see any other reason why he was used so much last night.

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4 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Julien was using Schlemko a lot. I wonder if MB has asked them to do so so that he can show that Schlemko is healthy & therefore can be traded?  I cant see any other reason why he was used so much last night.

Julien also used the 4th line way too much 

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1 hour ago, HabsAlways said:

After watching the Oilers game from the stands I'm firmly convicted we need to get rid of Schlemko and Alzner.   Benn is fine if we limit him to the bottom pairing.     We need a mobile LHD that can replace those 2 guys and Weber back asap

LHD - Weber

Mete - Petry

Rielly - Juulsun

or depending on who we get 

Rielly - Weber

Mete - Petry

LHD - Juulsun (if the LHD is a vet 2way D that can help Juulsun learn)

Benn then becomes your 7th D.   Alzner/Schlemko gone.

 

1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Julien was using Schlemko a lot. I wonder if MB has asked them to do so so that he can show that Schlemko is healthy & therefore can be traded?  I cant see any other reason why he was used so much last night.

We all agree that we need a LHD. The problem is that at this point of the season, no one has thrown in the towel on their year (except maybe the Kings and I'd say no thank you to Jake Muzzin), so any deal we make would be a hockey trade, and we'd need to give up a roster player in all probability. If you want a #1 LHD now, you're dealing Drouin or Gallagher or Weber or Petry to make that happen. The Canes have a wealth of good young LHD, with Jake Bean and Haydn Fleury and Jaccob Slavin, but if they deal one of those guys, they're then looking at that spot becoming a weakness. So even though they want forwards, hard to see them dealing Slavin and I'm not sure about the other two. IMO, targeting a guy like Bean, who can potentially grow into a top pairing role is a much better move than trying to go after an established player though... will cost less in a trade and it gives you an asset who can be here long-term.

As for the guys we have, the entire bunch just looked lost last night. Even the better D men like Petry, Mete, and Reilly were all over the place, and I think some of it has to do with the fact that

1. There is currently no stability with who is partnering who.

2. Being asked to play with the likes of Benn, Schlemko, and Alzner is weighing these guys down too.

The "good" D men we have are solid but for the most part aren't stars. They can't carry the weight of poor-quality partners. I do believe Schlemko and Benn are both tradeable, having two years and one year left on their contracts respectively. Both guys can be assets as depth D men to a playoff team with a strong D corps. Think Nashville, for example... not a horrible thought to have Benn as your 7th or 8th D man. Think SJ and how maybe they take Schlemko back to sit as a 7th guy behind the likes of Burns/Vlasic/Karlsson/etc. Those teams can afford to have a veteran to play 12 minutes a night and mainly be a penalty killing specialist if they need be. They don't have to ask them to be top 4 players and weaken the entire line-up by asking them to play above their heads. So yeah, I believe both those players can find a niche, and I think it will help if we can get Weber back and stay healthy on the back end to put Benn or Schlemko in the line-up one at a time on the 3rd pairing and showcase them at what they're good at. It serves no one to push Schlemko or Benn up to the first pair and have them look completely out of place.

The last point I'll make is this: Ouellet is already better than the three stooges on defence. In his last couple of games, he started trying to do more than he was capable of with bad pinches, but he's a better puck-mover and skater than the other guys. So even without a trade, your 6 guys should be Weber/Petry/Juulsen down the right in some order and Reilly/Mete/Ouellet down the left in some order. Everything else is either to showcase for a trade or because there are irrational decisions being made by the coach or GM.

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If I were the GM I would seriously do something about the goaltending. But I have no idea as to WHAT to do.

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1 hour ago, PHIL LACROIX said:

If I were the GM I would seriously do something about the goaltending. But I have no idea as to WHAT to do.

I would bring up Lingren and let him play the games Neimi is now playing and play Price. He's either going to have to play through what's going on or at least find out if he can. Neimi has done what a backup is supposed to do. This team is still building and learning so let Lingren have his shot too and live with it. I can not believe he is going to be worse and I would say this is the season to find out if he is part of the future. We actually have a future that isn't looking bad moving forward. So lets find out if Lingren can do it and find out if Price is going to be able to get back to form. Bring up Lingren and play Price, move forward. Playing Neimi isn't the future and we need to know  if Price can or will rebound for moving forward. I do believe the defense should settle down when Weber is back and maybe that helps Price and whoever along with hoping we find someone for the left side. I love the fast game but maybe we need to step back just a little and not have the d pinch as much and not have all the forward commit to deep. We might need to play a little more defensive game until we can get our goals against down more and help out the goalies more. Once better established defensively then move toward the transition to offense. Babcock , Trot's most of the top coaches always want offense from good defense.

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Ok so was just wondering about a possible scenario and what everyone thinks the likelihood is, personally I think it may be too far out there and wishful thinking but here it goes. We know the Leafs are looking for 2 roster players one of which is preferably a top 4 RHD and the other a top 9 forward. Could MB's recall of Scherbak be because he wants to offer up Scherbak and either Petry or Juulsen. The timing of the recall seems benign because his conditioning stint has hit 14 days, but it's not like he is going straight on to the roster either. By trading Petry you dump salary to sign Nylander and certainly to resign Juulsen next year would mean the Leafs no longer have cap issues. Any thoughts. 

Edited by campabee82
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9 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Ok so was just wondering about a possible scenario and what everyone thinks the likelihood is, personally I think it may be too far out there and wishful thinking but here it goes. We know the Leafs are looking for 2 roster players one of which is preferably a top 4 RHD and the other a top 9 forward. Could MB's recall of Scherbak be because he wants to offer up Scherbak and either Petry or Juulsen. The timing of the recall seems benign because his conditioning stint has hit 14 days, but it's not like he is going straight on to the roster either. By trading Petry you dump salary to sign Nylander and certainly to resign Juulsen next year would mean the Leafs no longer have cap issues. Any thoughts. 

Also Scherbak is no Nylander by any means but they would not have to worry about his lack of defensive ability because no matter which line he is on the centre would be able to make up for it whether it's JT,  AM or NK. 

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Ok so was just wondering about a possible scenario and what everyone thinks the likelihood is, personally I think it may be too far out there and wishful thinking but here it goes. We know the Leafs are looking for 2 roster players one of which is preferably a top 4 RHD and the other a top 9 forward. Could MB's recall of Scherbak be because he wants to offer up Scherbak and either Petry or Juulsen. The timing of the recall seems benign because his conditioning stint has hit 14 days, but it's not like he is going straight on to the roster either. By trading Petry you dump salary to sign Nylander and certainly to resign Juulsen next year would mean the Leafs no longer have cap issues. Any thoughts. 

Conditioning stint means they had no choice but to bring him back or place him on unconditional waivers

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7 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Conditioning stint means they had no choice but to bring him back or place him on unconditional waivers

I know that. Was just saying that convienently his stint ran out and he is on the IR now which one would think means they are still not happy with him and are probably looking to trade him. We know that the Leafs don't need another defensive forward although they would probably take one but it's not a deal breaker for them. Scherbak could provide at least a small fraction of the scoring they are going to lose if Nylander leaves, and either Petry or Juulsen could play top 4 and are both RHD. Not saying at all that a trade is even being considered just wondered if possible.

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I'd think Scherbak's value in a trade right now is pretty low. It might have been better if we explored trading him last season when he had 30 points in 26 games with Laval. Right now he just feels like an unknown commodity. And Montreal isn't doing anything to boost his value by sitting him, sending him for conditioning stints, and criticizing his "board play" or whatever it was they were unhappy with (classic Montreal management). I think the most Scherbak could get us is another under-performing prospect. So... probably not too much to explore unless we get someone slightly younger that can play/develop in Laval for the season. Just my two cents.

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I believe the media has being reporting that Toronto's ask for Nylander is a top-six forward and a top-four defender. Based on that ask, I would maybe consider proposing something like Tomas Tatar and Victor Mete. Mete is not a top-four D, but seems to have some value and upside. Maybe you substitute Noah Juulsen for Mete since we seem deeper on the right side of defense. Then the question becomes how much is Nylander worth to us? Would we even give him the money he's asking for?

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

one would think means they are still not happy with him and are probably looking to trade him.

Or it just means he's actually injured.  Too bad we've been mislead by this management so often its hard to know what the truth is.

35 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I believe the media has being reporting that Toronto's ask for Nylander is a top-six forward and a top-four defender. Based on that ask, I would maybe consider proposing something like Tomas Tatar and Victor Mete. Mete is not a top-four D, but seems to have some value and upside. Maybe you substitute Noah Juulsen for Mete since we seem deeper on the right side of defense. Then the question becomes how much is Nylander worth to us? Would we even give him the money he's asking for?

Honestly, I think id rather keep Mete & Tatar. I like Nylander a lot but im still not sure where his ceiling is and I feel like Tatar and Mete will be important cogs in this team for some time.  Id be interested in Nylander for an older defensman but one of the young ones I think we an ill afford to part with at this point

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With Weber inching his way towards a return, I wonder whether Jeff Petry becomes a valuable trading chip. He's an advanced-stat gem, and someone I'm sure Kyle Dubas would be interested in acquiring to fill the hole on the right side of his blue line. From our end, it definitely weakens an already iffy blue line, but if the aim is to build towards the future and the team views Weber as the RHD vet they want to keep, the thought process could be to trade Petry before his value drops off, to let this year slide a bit, and to try to put in place cogs for future seasons... with that in mind, you'd have Weber as your 1 RHD, Juulsen as your 2 RHD, and potentially Brook or Fleury (or a fill-in free agent) as your 3 RHD next year. The left side would still need to be strengthened considerably, but there's an argument for trading Petry to acquire a player like Nylander who can help longer-term.

So what gets it done? I don't think Petry is enough because of the age gap, even if he fills a need for Toronto. I also don't think they want to take on Petry's salary AND another big salary up front, so in my view, Drouin and Tatar and maybe even Gallagher are off limits in these trade talks. I don't think the Habs will trade Domi or Kotkaniemi, so the name I'd toss out there who could potentially get a deal done would be Lehkonen. He's viewed as a reliable two-way player who can be 2nd-to-3rd line and has the talent to score 20 goals, albeit hasn't had the luck or the finish on a regular basis since his rookie season. Lehkonen's a guy I'd hate to lose, but I'd wonder about a deal along the lines of

Petry and Lehkonen

for

Nylander and a 4th round pick

 

Again, makes us worse now because the weakest link on our team is defence and we would be making it weaker, but I think it makes us stronger in the long run and it suddenly allows you to explore trading another forward like Drouin to help the left side of your defence. So for example, could you swing him to Carolina (who we know want a scoring winger) for Bean and wing prospect Janne Kuokkanen? Would leave us lining up something along the lines of this next year:

 

Domi-Nylander-Suzuki

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Hudon-Poehling-Armia

Byron-Danault-Shaw

 

Reilly-Weber

Mete-Juulsen

Bean-Brook

 

 

 

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23 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

With Weber inching his way towards a return, I wonder whether Jeff Petry becomes a valuable trading chip. He's an advanced-stat gem, and someone I'm sure Kyle Dubas would be interested in acquiring to fill the hole on the right side of his blue line. From our end, it definitely weakens an already iffy blue line, but if the aim is to build towards the future and the team views Weber as the RHD vet they want to keep, the thought process could be to trade Petry before his value drops off, to let this year slide a bit, and to try to put in place cogs for future seasons... with that in mind, you'd have Weber as your 1 RHD, Juulsen as your 2 RHD, and potentially Brook or Fleury (or a fill-in free agent) as your 3 RHD next year. The left side would still need to be strengthened considerably, but there's an argument for trading Petry to acquire a player like Nylander who can help longer-term.

So what gets it done? I don't think Petry is enough because of the age gap, even if he fills a need for Toronto. I also don't think they want to take on Petry's salary AND another big salary up front, so in my view, Drouin and Tatar and maybe even Gallagher are off limits in these trade talks. I don't think the Habs will trade Domi or Kotkaniemi, so the name I'd toss out there who could potentially get a deal done would be Lehkonen. He's viewed as a reliable two-way player who can be 2nd-to-3rd line and has the talent to score 20 goals, albeit hasn't had the luck or the finish on a regular basis since his rookie season. Lehkonen's a guy I'd hate to lose, but I'd wonder about a deal along the lines of

Petry and Lehkonen

for

Nylander and a 4th round pick

 

Again, makes us worse now because the weakest link on our team is defence and we would be making it weaker, but I think it makes us stronger in the long run and it suddenly allows you to explore trading another forward like Drouin to help the left side of your defence. So for example, could you swing him to Carolina (who we know want a scoring winger) for Bean and wing prospect Janne Kuokkanen? Would leave us lining up something along the lines of this next year:

 

Domi-Nylander-Suzuki

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Hudon-Poehling-Armia

Byron-Danault-Shaw

 

Reilly-Weber

Mete-Juulsen

Bean-Brook

 

 

 

Im all for trading Petry (or better still Weber, but you know we wont) but ideally I want a Pacioretty for Tatar/Suzuki/Pick type deal.   

I mean I get what you're saying about Nylander but do we really need help up front as much as we need it on the backend?   Is there a bluechip LD prospect who would immediately be our #1 defensman of the future?  

I understand you suggest flipping Drouin then for a defensman but any time we require MB to make not one but two good trades, i worry... 

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I saw tonight that someone suggested that there might be a Weber for Nylander option and that it would be win-win. I don't feel like it would be a win-win and I also am not sure about us giving up our best chance at improving our PP. I would rather give up Petry or Juulsen plus a forward like Hudon or Lehkonen who have potential top 6 skill then giving up Weber unless we can somehow figure out how to improve our PP without him. I also don't see MB trading Weber after naming him captain without any player input. I have 2 preferable scenarios for getting Nylander.

1. Offer sheet him at 7.5-8 x 5 see what the Leafs do. 

2. Offer Petry, Hudon and 4 rd pick for Nylander and Subban. Jordan Subban could be another P.K. but even if he is half as good as P.K. We still come out ahead on the deal because we don't lose too much on the right D. Then you can go and find a LHD.  

Our Back end could then be

Reilly-Weber

Mete-Juulsen 

Ouellett-Subban

If Subban is eligible this year. 

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On 11/15/2018 at 0:41 PM, BigTed3 said:

With Weber inching his way towards a return, I wonder whether Jeff Petry becomes a valuable trading chip. He's an advanced-stat gem, and someone I'm sure Kyle Dubas would be interested in acquiring to fill the hole on the right side of his blue line. From our end, it definitely weakens an already iffy blue line, but if the aim is to build towards the future and the team views Weber as the RHD vet they want to keep, the thought process could be to trade Petry before his value drops off, to let this year slide a bit, and to try to put in place cogs for future seasons... with that in mind, you'd have Weber as your 1 RHD, Juulsen as your 2 RHD, and potentially Brook or Fleury (or a fill-in free agent) as your 3 RHD next year. The left side would still need to be strengthened considerably, but there's an argument for trading Petry to acquire a player like Nylander who can help longer-term.

So what gets it done? I don't think Petry is enough because of the age gap, even if he fills a need for Toronto. I also don't think they want to take on Petry's salary AND another big salary up front, so in my view, Drouin and Tatar and maybe even Gallagher are off limits in these trade talks. I don't think the Habs will trade Domi or Kotkaniemi, so the name I'd toss out there who could potentially get a deal done would be Lehkonen. He's viewed as a reliable two-way player who can be 2nd-to-3rd line and has the talent to score 20 goals, albeit hasn't had the luck or the finish on a regular basis since his rookie season. Lehkonen's a guy I'd hate to lose, but I'd wonder about a deal along the lines of

Petry and Lehkonen

for

Nylander and a 4th round pick

 

Again, makes us worse now because the weakest link on our team is defence and we would be making it weaker, but I think it makes us stronger in the long run and it suddenly allows you to explore trading another forward like Drouin to help the left side of your defence. So for example, could you swing him to Carolina (who we know want a scoring winger) for Bean and wing prospect Janne Kuokkanen? Would leave us lining up something along the lines of this next year:

 

Domi-Nylander-Suzuki

Tatar-Kotkaniemi-Gallagher

Hudon-Poehling-Armia

Byron-Danault-Shaw

 

Reilly-Weber

Mete-Juulsen

Bean-Brook

 

 

 

I like this kind of trade however was thinking more of Petry, Hudon and a 3rd or 4th rounder for Nylander and Jordan Subban for reasons discribed above. But if your going to trade Drouin I think you have go after someone like OLE or Chychrun. I think Arizona may consider parting with either if it meant getting Drouin and we also have a good trading history with them so they may do a 1 for 1.

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

I like this kind of trade however was thinking more of Petry, Hudon and a 3rd or 4th rounder for Nylander and Jordan Subban for reasons discribed above. But if your going to trade Drouin I think you have go after someone like OLE or Chychrun. I think Arizona may consider parting with either if it meant getting Drouin and we also have a good trading history with them so they may do a 1 for 1.

If they could pull off both trade you then have a lineup that could potentially be next year 

Tatar-Nylander-Gallagher 

Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Suzuki

Byron-Peoling-Scherbak

Peca-Shaw-Armia

OLE/Chychrun-Weber 

Reilly/Mete-Juulsen 

Mete/Reilly-Subban/Brook

This year we could look like

Tatar-Nylander-Gallagher

Lehkonen-Kotkaniemi-Armia

Byron-Shaw-Scherbak

Agostino-Evans-Peca (not the greatest but at least Deslauriers isn't in there)

OLE/Chychrun-Weber 

Reilly/Mete-Juulsen 

Mete/Reilly-Subban/Benn

The D gets infinitely better this year and moving forward with both Brook and Fluery getting closer and neither would have to be rushed. Also when Weber does leave we don't get weaker on the right and have trade chips for the future as well.

 

 

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The idea of offering Jeff Petry is bold. There's a lot of merit in it as a starting point in an offer for Nylander. With Weber returning... and Bergevin unlikely to deal his new captain, dealing Petry could be a very interesting option.

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To Toronto:

Jeff Petry ($5.5 million)

Nikita Scherbak ($0.84 million)

2nd round draft choice (2019)

To Montreal:

William Nylander (RFA)

Ron Hainsey ($3.0 million)

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Yeah, we'd look pretty bad without Petry on the back end but if there was a way to get Nylander for him, I'd definitely go for it and then think about rebuilding our D.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

The idea of offering Jeff Petry is bold. There's a lot of merit in it as a starting point in an offer for Nylander. With Weber returning... and Bergevin unlikely to deal his new captain, dealing Petry could be a very interesting option.

It may be an interesting option but I wouldn't do it... Petry is the best available right defenseman when and if Weber get's re-injured. I like the idea of trying to acquire Nylander at a reasonable cost where another prospect or roster player and another of the Habs surplus d-men are included.

I suggest that Hudon, Agostino may interest the Leafs and/or maybe even McCarron with Benn (who seems more comfortable on the right side) could work for both teams

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39 minutes ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

It may be an interesting option but I wouldn't do it... Petry is the best available right defenseman when and if Weber get's re-injured. I like the idea of trying to acquire Nylander at a reasonable cost where another prospect or roster player and another of the Habs surplus d-men are included.

I suggest that Hudon, Agostino may interest the Leafs and/or maybe even McCarron with Benn (who seems more comfortable on the right side) could work for both teams

I don't think a combination of Benn + Hudon (or) Agostino (or) McCarron would draw any interest from Torornto. They could certainly get a better defender somewhere in the league for Nylander. Agostino and McCarron really really have absolutely zero value in a trade, in my opinion. 

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I really don't think we have what it takes to go after Nylander. Nor do I think Toronto would want to trade within their division.

I would really love to offer him 5 years at 8 million and see what happens (we can't offer more than 5 years or it messes up the compensation). 

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