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2018-19 If I were GM


H_T_L
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2 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Apparently MB's on the list for GM of the year. I certainly wouldn't vote for him. He did some good things, but the list of bad is still pretty significant. I'd be surprised if he got anymore then 1 vote, and that would likely be his.

well if you're looking at last 12 months, i think he should be a finalist. And even if you look beyond that, that Weber deal is looking better and better the way PK has been playing

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3 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Apparently MB's on the list for GM of the year. I certainly wouldn't vote for him. He did some good things, but the list of bad is still pretty significant. I'd be surprised if he got anymore then 1 vote, and that would likely be his.

He made some swell moves this season, but nothing that would warrant GM of the year, IMO.

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12 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

He made some swell moves this season, but nothing that would warrant GM of the year, IMO.

Habs will always be my team but just as an accomplishment stand point this season is still a failure. Yes we should some resilience and have some bright spots but at the end of the day if you don't make the playoffs to give you a shot at winning it all the season is still a major disappointment.

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4 hours ago, habsisme said:

well if you're looking at last 12 months, i think he should be a finalist. And even if you look beyond that, that Weber deal is looking better and better the way PK has been playing

no way. 

1. obviously the 2 main trades worked out, but he fluked off tatar. that was at the request of vegas. he looked like a bust. so hes no genious, and he should have got way more for pacioretty by trading him way sooner

2. ditto chucky. should have been traded sooner, and should have had a chance to inflate his numbers. yes i like domi. I like domi and 2 prospects more

3. I know your joking about the weber trade. subban was the better player when they did it, its not even close now. yeah he had a tough year battling injuries but lets be realistic, hes one of the 5 or 10 best d in the nhl at this point and weber is maybe...30th? 40th?

everything else is classic bargain bin, which amounted to the predictable bargain bin result of not quite good enough.

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36 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

no way. 

1. obviously the 2 main trades worked out, but he fluked off tatar. that was at the request of vegas. he looked like a bust. so hes no genious, and he should have got way more for pacioretty by trading him way sooner

2. ditto chucky. should have been traded sooner, and should have had a chance to inflate his numbers. yes i like domi. I like domi and 2 prospects more

3. I know your joking about the weber trade. subban was the better player when they did it, its not even close now. yeah he had a tough year battling injuries but lets be realistic, hes one of the 5 or 10 best d in the nhl at this point and weber is maybe...30th? 40th?

everything else is classic bargain bin, which amounted to the predictable bargain bin result of not quite good enough.

He definitely fluked with Tatar

I didn't like the Chucky trade but that was no fluke and I don't think we could have got much more for Chucky ever

I'm not joking lol I'm not going to have this conversation again cause it's the only time i've been mad on this site. But I think Weber was better then and now... and cheaper and less of a headache. (I know ppl are going to bring up the length of the contract but he's either going to be good enough to trade or he will retire, it's not going to be an issue)

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32 minutes ago, habsisme said:

He definitely fluked with Tatar

I didn't like the Chucky trade but that was no fluke and I don't think we could have got much more for Chucky ever

I'm not joking lol I'm not going to have this conversation again cause it's the only time i've been mad on this site. But I think Weber was better then and now... and cheaper and less of a headache. (I know ppl are going to bring up the length of the contract but he's either going to be good enough to trade or he will retire, it's not going to be an issue)

Yeah some folks just hate Webber... who played less games  this year than Subban but got more points goals a better +- and had a better shooting percentage all while being older. he missed time due tho his injury issues to start the year as well and cherry on the sunday, Webber plays against the tougher players as our #1 D. I think the trade is a wash but to say it was a huge win by Nashville is pretty rich! it may end up that way but it is not trending that way right now.

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5 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yeah some folks just hate Webber... who played less games  this year than Subban but got more points goals a better +- and had a better shooting percentage all while being older. he missed time due tho his injury issues to start the year as well and cherry on the sunday, Webber plays against the tougher players as our #1 D. I think the trade is a wash but to say it was a huge win by Nashville is pretty rich! it may end up that way but it is not trending that way right now.

yeah my thoughts exactly. The only trade that MB has made that I didn't like much then and dislike more now is Sergachev for Drouin. It was a desperation move and mistake

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I dont think he fluked with Tatar as much as people think. Tatar now has 5 straight seasons on 20 or more goals. Vegas had to give give up a 1st 2nd and 3rd to get him. Ya so what he did not fit in with vegas. They were already rolling and really had no where to place him. Yes I dont think they thought they were getting a 60 point player but I am sure they assumed 20 plus goals and 45 plus points why wouldnt they??? He was still young and putting those numbers up on a bad detroit team..

Weber for Subban i was not happy when it happened, but the trade is closer then I gave it credit for. Its not about Subban anymore, its about the team :). Add to the fact he has scored more goals per game. Plays more physical. And is not surrounded by Elkhom, Jossi and Ryan Ellis...I think it ends up being more even then I gave it credit for.

I am not sure why people think Galchenyk had more value. He is one of the worst defensive forwards in the game. And his offensive numbers dont compensate for this weaknes. If anything we stole Domi when he was at an all time low...Not the other way around

Droiun for Sergachev i did not like and still dont and to make matters worse I think Droiun has little to no trade value.And our only hope is he grows up matures and can contribute to this team in the future

 

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9 hours ago, habsisme said:

well if you're looking at last 12 months, i think he should be a finalist. And even if you look beyond that, that Weber deal is looking better and better the way PK has been playing

LOL....c'mon, we never even made the playoffs. Our backup sucked. Left D sucked. Power play sucked. Drouin sucked. 

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10 hours ago, habsisme said:

We are at least a year away from that happening but you would have to give a lot. It starts with Kotkaniemi and a couple of firsts. Probably Poehling and Romanov too. He's the best player in the game but its hard to make a trade like that. The team who trades for him has to already be good and be capable of losing significant pieces that peripheral to their team. 

Arguably the best player in the world for prospects . We don't  know how Poehling and Romanov  are going to project . It  would never happen.  

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7 hours ago, Regis22 said:

Arguably the best player in the world for prospects . We don't  know how Poehling and Romanov  are going to project . It  would never happen.  

Yep he is pretty much the best player in the world.....how is that working out in Edmonton? sure lets gut the future for one player that will fix our LHD issue too right? i would love to have that guy here but it will never happen.

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Tough call but I think longterm Domi should go back to LW .... giving us Domi, Drouin, Tatar on the top 3 lines

On RW you got Gallagher, Armia and Suzuki (who has played C and RW this last year)

Leaving Kotkaniemi, Danault and Poehling down the middle

4th line is Lehkonen, Weal, Byron, Shaw

On D ... Brook can play LD apparently, so Mete, Brook and Kulak as I doubt Romanov comes over yet.    On the right side you got Weber, Petry, Juulsun if healthy.

.... and that all looks fine except ....

I really want us to trade Drouin.    Not sure for what ... another LW? a top LD?   But our roster with the exception of him is full ... he's the only guy in the top 9 I don't think has the drive to be a key piece of our success.

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On 4/5/2019 at 6:40 PM, caperns61 said:

I dont think he fluked with Tatar as much as people think. Tatar now has 5 straight seasons on 20 or more goals. Vegas had to give give up a 1st 2nd and 3rd to get him. Ya so what he did not fit in with vegas. They were already rolling and really had no where to place him. Yes I dont think they thought they were getting a 60 point player but I am sure they assumed 20 plus goals and 45 plus points why wouldnt they??? He was still young and putting those numbers up on a bad detroit team..

 

 

Yeah, I don't think Tatar was exactly a fluke ... MB wanted Suzuki and Tatar was there to replace Paccioretty's production to some degree until Suzuki matured.   I think they saw his previous seasons thought "20g, 20a, 40p" and controls the puck well so yeah, he's decent.

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On 4/6/2019 at 6:04 AM, jeff33 said:

no way. 

1. obviously the 2 main trades worked out, but he fluked off tatar. that was at the request of vegas. he looked like a bust. so hes no genious, and he should have got way more for pacioretty by trading him way sooner

2. ditto chucky. should have been traded sooner, and should have had a chance to inflate his numbers. yes i like domi. I like domi and 2 prospects more

3. I know your joking about the weber trade. subban was the better player when they did it, its not even close now. yeah he had a tough year battling injuries but lets be realistic, hes one of the 5 or 10 best d in the nhl at this point and weber is maybe...30th? 40th?

everything else is classic bargain bin, which amounted to the predictable bargain bin result of not quite good enough.

Not on the mark. Sorry. Wrong glasses. 

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9 hours ago, dreegking said:

Not on the mark. Sorry. Wrong glasses. 

feel free to elaborate.

let me explain why tatar was a "fluke". I liked him when he was in detroit, was shocked he did so bad in LV, and was happy we got him and thought he would do well. Its a fluke because MB did not go demand for tatar because he knew he was going to come here and do well....he conceded to take tatar as a throw in for salary cap considerations. he was doing patch for suzuki and a 2nd, and agreed to take tatar to get his salary off vegas' books. so this is not some stroke of managerial genius, this was bargain bin getting lucky.

as for chucky, you all could be right, that might have been the best we were going to get for him. I just dont like that he was playing wing to andreas martinsens instead of centering the 1st line, if we were gonna trade him, boost his value and maximize the return

as for weber= subban.....palm a la face. hes been to the finals and been nominated for the norris.  we just missed the playoffs again. guess that leadership and character is still taking a minute to kick in and make a difference to us winning anything. lol, comparing him to subban, at this point I dont take him over petry. 

We need a major upgrade on D. We have F prospects that will ideally address whats missing up front, but I would be shopping Drouin+ Mete for the best D that will get 

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4 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

feel free to elaborate.

let me explain why tatar was a "fluke". I liked him when he was in detroit, was shocked he did so bad in LV, and was happy we got him and thought he would do well. Its a fluke because MB did not go demand for tatar because he knew he was going to come here and do well....he conceded to take tatar as a throw in for salary cap considerations. he was doing patch for suzuki and a 2nd, and agreed to take tatar to get his salary off vegas' books. so this is not some stroke of managerial genius, this was bargain bin getting lucky.

as for chucky, you all could be right, that might have been the best we were going to get for him. I just dont like that he was playing wing to andreas martinsens instead of centering the 1st line, if we were gonna trade him, boost his value and maximize the return

as for weber= subban.....palm a la face. hes been to the finals and been nominated for the norris.  we just missed the playoffs again. guess that leadership and character is still taking a minute to kick in and make a difference to us winning anything. lol, comparing him to subban, at this point I dont take him over petry. 

We need a major upgrade on D. We have F prospects that will ideally address whats missing up front, but I would be shopping Drouin+ Mete for the best D that will get 

Not gonna touch Subban/Weber cause I made my opinion clear. I like the trade more now than I did then. 

As for Tatar, while he wasn't the main focus of the trade (it was a rebuild trade) I don't think taking him was just fluke. We wanted to at least partially replace Pacioretty's scoring and MB took a calculated risk taking on Tatar. I'm not say give him full credit for Tatar's success but there are no certainties in hockey and when your decisions work out, you should get credit for it.  

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6 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

as for weber= subban.....palm a la face. hes been to the finals and been nominated for the norris.  we just missed the playoffs again. guess that leadership and character is still taking a minute to kick in and make a difference to us winning anything. lol, comparing him to subban, at this point I dont take him over petry. 

There's always another excuse for why "leadership" and "character" has failed once again where skill succeeded. It's amazing how nothing bad that ever happens is the fault of some "gritty, hard working" player, and everything good that ever happens to a team is despite the "distraction" and "headaches". If it takes 30 years to win another cup, some people will attribute it to the reverberations of the hard work and character of Dale Weise and Shea Weber.

It's ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, habs_93 said:

There's always another excuse for why "leadership" and "character" has failed once again where skill succeeded. It's amazing how nothing bad that ever happens is the fault of some "gritty, hard working" player, and everything good that ever happens to a team is despite the "distraction" and "headaches". If it takes 30 years to win another cup, some people will attribute it to the reverberations of the hard work and character of Dale Weise and Shea Weber.

It's ridiculous.

yep. Subban has won so much more than Webber and this year even more! come on folks they are both good Dmen just not the same style Webber plays against the other teams best lines Does Subban? both missed games this year due to injury they had roughly the same output is Subban finished too? there is no clear cut winner here each team wanted something else to say that the Habs have missed a cup because we have Webber rather than Subban is yes ridiculous neither one of those players alone is going to make it happen.

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3 hours ago, habs_93 said:

There's always another excuse for why "leadership" and "character" has failed once again where skill succeeded. It's amazing how nothing bad that ever happens is the fault of some "gritty, hard working" player, and everything good that ever happens to a team is despite the "distraction" and "headaches". If it takes 30 years to win another cup, some people will attribute it to the reverberations of the hard work and character of Dale Weise and Shea Weber.

It's ridiculous.

Just because we don't win more, doesn't mean we aren't a better team. Thats the logic. Makes lots of sense

1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

yep. Subban has won so much more than Webber and this year even more! come on folks they are both good Dmen just not the same style Webber plays against the other teams best lines Does Subban? both missed games this year due to injury they had roughly the same output is Subban finished too? there is no clear cut winner here each team wanted something else to say that the Habs have missed a cup because we have Webber rather than Subban is yes ridiculous neither one of those players alone is going to make it happen.

but he objectively HAS won more. we went to 2 ECF with subban. Nashville has now been to a cup final and were a hair away from the WCF last year, with subban leading the team in minutes and taking all the big matchups. and he was nominated for the norris and finished in the top 10 in d scoring.

we have missed the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years and rolled over and died in the 1st round of the one we did make.  weber was not nominated for the norris and was nowhere near the top 10.

Im not going to carry on this debate, but I find it hard to look at the case objectively as I laid out here and see that it is anything but a clear loss. 

ANYWAY moving on....

 

do you guys want gardiner? what do we think?

 

 

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2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

yep. Subban has won so much more than Webber and this year even more! come on folks they are both good Dmen just not the same style Webber plays against the other teams best lines Does Subban? 

Yes? Subban has played against the other teams best lines literally his entire career and has been used as the shutdown guy in Nashville the entire time he's been there, even with Emelin last season. 

He had a down year but there's a big difference between "29 year old with some injuries who was elite the season before" and "33 year old coming off consecutive knee and foot surgeries who was never fast and was last elite 5 years ago". 

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47 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

ANYWAY moving on....

 

do you guys want gardiner? what do we think?

 

 

No,,,, especially for the money he's going to want. He's not a top pairing guy IMO. I'd rather suffer with Mete there, if he's the best available to us.

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2 hours ago, Noob616 said:

Yes? Subban has played against the other teams best lines literally his entire career and has been used as the shutdown guy in Nashville the entire time he's been there, even with Emelin last season. 

He had a down year but there's a big difference between "29 year old with some injuries who was elite the season before" and "33 year old coming off consecutive knee and foot surgeries who was never fast and was last elite 5 years ago". 

Sorry, was Subban a first pairing dman this year and has he not been hurt in three of the last 4 years......and to compare our team with Nashville since we got Webber is a real stretch! if we had the rest of Nashville's Dcorps we would have gone a lot further too! Webber is older and yes slower but this endless ranting about the guy is silly we would not have won a whole bunch more or perhaps at all with Subban as he still would of had no true top partner to play with and our offence would still have been the same and he would have had  the same coaches Webber had. now Webber probably would have had better years if he had stayed in Nashville don't you think?  i find it comical that Webber is viewed as a failure or somehow sub standard because our team has done poorly but Subban is held as some super hero on the blue line because his team has done well. here i thought it was a team game. lets see how next year plays out for the old man as he will at least start the year with the club.

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16 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Sorry, was Subban a first pairing dman this year and has he not been hurt in three of the last 4 years......and to compare our team with Nashville since we got Webber is a real stretch! if we had the rest of Nashville's Dcorps we would have gone a lot further too! Webber is older and yes slower but this endless ranting about the guy is silly we would not have won a whole bunch more or perhaps at all with Subban as he still would of had no true top partner to play with and our offence would still have been the same and he would have had  the same coaches Webber had. now Webber probably would have had better years if he had stayed in Nashville don't you think?  i find it comical that Webber is viewed as a failure or somehow sub standard because our team has done poorly but Subban is held as some super hero on the blue line because his team has done well. here i thought it was a team game. lets see how next year plays out for the old man as he will at least start the year with the club.

he did better when he was here and weber was there, and he did better there than weber did when he was here. thats quantifiable. its a team game absolutely, and our team and nashvilles team has quantifiably done better with subban. theres no arguing it. 

obviously nashville has a better team. i get your point. end of the day, we went further with subban than with weber, thats a fact, and nash has also gone further with subban than with weber, and thats a fact. we cant sit here and say its tomatoe tomato if we are being objective, hes outdone weber, period. it was a stupid trade that we lost. we branded him the problem and we then missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years and did nothing the one time we made it. thats hard reality. does it mean weber is dog food, no, but thats what happened. the narrative was idiotic  and quantifiably wrong

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