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2018-19 If I were GM


H_T_L
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50 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

he did better when he was here and weber was there, and he did better there than weber did when he was here. thats quantifiable. its a team game absolutely, and our team and nashvilles team has quantifiably done better with subban. theres no arguing it. 

obviously nashville has a better team. i get your point. end of the day, we went further with subban than with weber, thats a fact, and nash has also gone further with subban than with weber, and thats a fact. we cant sit here and say its tomatoe tomato if we are being objective, hes outdone weber, period. it was a stupid trade that we lost. we branded him the problem and we then missed the playoffs 2 of 3 years and did nothing the one time we made it. thats hard reality. does it mean weber is dog food, no, but thats what happened. the narrative was idiotic  and quantifiably wrong

Sorry just don't see it that way and there are far too many variables to say it is quantifiable and it is far from idiotic there are many in the hockey world who feel it is a wash i personally believe we would be better served by Subban's style of play right now for sure but there is more to it than just the #'s as has been mentioned many times. i will wait a couple of more years to see how it all pans out before i call it one way or another, my fear for Subban is he is more interested in his life outside of hockey than hockey itself.

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28 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

Sorry just don't see it that way and there are far too many variables to say it is quantifiable and it is far from idiotic there are many in the hockey world who feel it is a wash i personally believe we would be better served by Subban's style of play right now for sure but there is more to it than just the #'s as has been mentioned many times. i will wait a couple of more years to see how it all pans out before i call it one way or another, my fear for Subban is he is more interested in his life outside of hockey than hockey itself.

Those sure helped us this year, eh?

At some point you can just admit that there is absolutely no falsifiable way of attributing hockey outcomes to anything except on-ice performance.

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33 minutes ago, habs_93 said:

Those sure helped us this year, eh?

At some point you can just admit that there is absolutely no falsifiable way of attributing hockey outcomes to anything except on-ice performance.

Actually i think we had a very good year on ice we are in by far the strongest conference we started the year with big question marks at every position Webber was not even here for a long stretch we started with a bunch of new players a rookie center and the same core that sucked the year before. the team played great for the most part even with only two real NHL D men with any experience. One could argue that with Webber from the start we would have made the playoffs not sure why you have this hate on for one of the very good D men in the game today? you have been on him since the trade what gives?

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3 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Depends on the cost. He is the only free agent that could really help us

The problem is that he's not a long term solution and we'd have to give him term to make him interested. He's only a bandaid on an open wound and I for one would rather hold off another year until a better option becomes available if he's the best out there this summer. We don't need another Alzner situation. That's not to say he's anywhere near as bad as Alzner but he'll be an overpayment for sure, 

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5 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

The problem is that he's not a long term solution and we'd have to give him term to make him interested. He's only a bandaid on an open wound and I for one would rather hold off another year until a better option becomes available if he's the best out there this summer. We don't need another Alzner situation. That's not to say he's anywhere near as bad as Alzner but he'll be an overpayment for sure, 

he's 28, I don't mind term of 5 or 6 years, and the most we could offer is 7. It's more what his cap hit is. And I really dont know what that will be. If its 7 or higher, forget it. Something around 6... that's what top 4 dmen cost. He would be our #2, but do you think he's at least a top 4 for the next few years? I do. 

I have trouble giving him a contract with Alzner still on the books though. 

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

he's 28, I don't mind term of 5 or 6 years, and the most we could offer is 7. It's more what his cap hit is. And I really dont know what that will be. If its 7 or higher, forget it. Something around 6... that's what top 4 dmen cost. He would be our #2, but do you think he's at least a top 4 for the next few years? I do. 

I have trouble giving him a contract with Alzner still on the books though. 

Gardiner is ... a marginal top 4.    His defensive game is atrocious to the point of being a liability at times.    Unless we're getting somebody like Karlsson, Doughty etc to play top LD I'd rather we just develop somebody.

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16 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Gardiner is ... a marginal top 4.    His defensive game is atrocious to the point of being a liability at times.    Unless we're getting somebody like Karlsson, Doughty etc to play top LD I'd rather we just develop somebody.

I certainly don't have the book on Gardiner so you might be right, but again, it depends on the cost. Even a marginal top 4 is worth 4 million. 

The ideal option for me would be packaging Drouin for help

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There are a few pretty "straightforward" housekeeping items that I would get taken care of now. Although, maybe some people might think they are less straightforward. Please feel free to comment.

Joel Armia (RFA). I would bring back Armia. I suppose the question is term and amount. He's probably looking for a multi-year deal. I'd be okay with that, as long as it isn't more than two or three years. What do you think the chances of getting something done at an AAV of $2.5 million are?

Artturi Lehkonen (RFA). Despite his poor offensive year, Lehkonen is gonna get a raise. I really like him and I do believe his offensive output will improve. I wouldn't mind signing him long-term if the dollar amount was right. Does anyone feel he's worth $3-4 million per season?

Jordan Weal and Nate Thompson I am allowing to walk. Charles Hudon... I guess the same thing for him. He doesn't seem to be in the plans.

Jordie Benn and Christian Folin are interesting. Does anyone bring either of them back? Brett Kulak and Mike Reilly are RFAs. I really thought Kulak was a good addition to the team.

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6 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

There are a few pretty "straightforward" housekeeping items that I would get taken care of now. Although, maybe some people might think they are less straightforward. Please feel free to comment.

Joel Armia (RFA). I would bring back Armia. I suppose the question is term and amount. He's probably looking for a multi-year deal. I'd be okay with that, as long as it isn't more than two or three years. What do you think the chances of getting something done at an AAV of $2.5 million are?

Artturi Lehkonen (RFA). Despite his poor offensive year, Lehkonen is gonna get a raise. I really like him and I do believe his offensive output will improve. I wouldn't mind signing him long-term if the dollar amount was right. Does anyone feel he's worth $3-4 million per season?

Jordan Weal and Nate Thompson I am allowing to walk. Charles Hudon... I guess the same thing for him. He doesn't seem to be in the plans.

Jordie Benn and Christian Folin are interesting. Does anyone bring either of them back? Brett Kulak and Mike Reilly are RFAs. I really thought Kulak was a good addition to the team.

you might be right about Gardiner getting paid, all I'm saying is at the right price, we should target him

I don't think Armia or Lehkonen should get more than 1.9 AAV. I would happily trade them or let them sit out if they want more. No big deal. 

I would want to keep both Thompson and especially Weal. I think they can be had for cheap too. Ditto for Benn

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

There are a few pretty "straightforward" housekeeping items that I would get taken care of now. Although, maybe some people might think they are less straightforward. Please feel free to comment.

Joel Armia (RFA). I would bring back Armia. I suppose the question is term and amount. He's probably looking for a multi-year deal. I'd be okay with that, as long as it isn't more than two or three years. What do you think the chances of getting something done at an AAV of $2.5 million are?

Artturi Lehkonen (RFA). Despite his poor offensive year, Lehkonen is gonna get a raise. I really like him and I do believe his offensive output will improve. I wouldn't mind signing him long-term if the dollar amount was right. Does anyone feel he's worth $3-4 million per season?

Jordan Weal and Nate Thompson I am allowing to walk. Charles Hudon... I guess the same thing for him. He doesn't seem to be in the plans.

Jordie Benn and Christian Folin are interesting. Does anyone bring either of them back? Brett Kulak and Mike Reilly are RFAs. I really thought Kulak was a good addition to the team.

Armia I'd like to see longer term if the cap hit is acceptable.   He's a very under rated player, has strong puck control and is excellent on the PK.    He'd be a great 3rd line RW for a few years.   Same with Lehkonen.

Weal I see the team keeping.   Hudon is gone, Thompson I'm not sure. 

Reilly I see being let go and Kulak resigned.    

Benn and Folin are an interesting case ... both played acceptable however with two other RD prospects possibly coming in next year (Juulsen if healthy, Brook if ready) I'm not sold he keep both or either.    If Juulsen is healthy, he probably gets the bottom pairing role with Brook in the AHL for some seasoning.  

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I feel like Gardiner is going to get PAID. He's one of the more attractive free agent D hitting the market. I don't know if I want to spend a lot of money on him. I don't really know if he's top-two quality.

He's not, even though Toronto's sports media would have you believe he is. In my book he's a 5th or 6th D-man.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

There are a few pretty "straightforward" housekeeping items that I would get taken care of now. Although, maybe some people might think they are less straightforward. Please feel free to comment.

Joel Armia (RFA). I would bring back Armia. I suppose the question is term and amount. He's probably looking for a multi-year deal. I'd be okay with that, as long as it isn't more than two or three years. What do you think the chances of getting something done at an AAV of $2.5 million are?

Artturi Lehkonen (RFA). Despite his poor offensive year, Lehkonen is gonna get a raise. I really like him and I do believe his offensive output will improve. I wouldn't mind signing him long-term if the dollar amount was right. Does anyone feel he's worth $3-4 million per season?

Jordan Weal and Nate Thompson I am allowing to walk. Charles Hudon... I guess the same thing for him. He doesn't seem to be in the plans.

Jordie Benn and Christian Folin are interesting. Does anyone bring either of them back? Brett Kulak and Mike Reilly are RFAs. I really thought Kulak was a good addition to the team.

I am not impressed whatsoever with Benn. I'd let him walk.

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

you might be right about Gardiner getting paid, all I'm saying is at the right price, we should target him

I don't think Armia or Lehkonen should get more than 1.9 AAV. I would happily trade them or let them sit out if they want more. No big deal. 

I would want to keep both Thompson and especially Weal. I think they can be had for cheap too. Ditto for Benn

Thompson makes me nervous because of his age. I do think he was quite useful down the stretch.

Weal performed well with us during a small sample size. I just wonder if he might be able to leverage that into something nice for himself on the UFA market. I don't want to overpay a guy who was only with the club for a very short period of time. It's possible his performances with us were an anomaly.

I think a $1.9 million AAV for Armia is unlikely. He's already getting paid $1.85 million and will certainly get a bigger raise than $500k. Lehkonen... maybe that's workable on a one or two year deal.

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22 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Armia I'd like to see longer term if the cap hit is acceptable.   He's a very under rated player, has strong puck control and is excellent on the PK.    He'd be a great 3rd line RW for a few years.   Same with Lehkonen.

Weal I see the team keeping.   Hudon is gone, Thompson I'm not sure. 

Reilly I see being let go and Kulak resigned.    

Benn and Folin are an interesting case ... both played acceptable however with two other RD prospects possibly coming in next year (Juulsen if healthy, Brook if ready) I'm not sold he keep both or either.    If Juulsen is healthy, he probably gets the bottom pairing role with Brook in the AHL for some seasoning.  

I really, really like both Armia and Lehkonen. It will be interested to see what happens there. Longer term deals could really pay-off well for the club if they continue to improve their play. Weal would be a nice addition, as long as he doesn't leverage that UFA status into a $3 million AAV contract.

I also suspect Kulak would be resigned over Reilly... who really seemed to fall out of favor as the year went on.

I could see one of Benn or Folin being brought back for depth. Bergevin always seems to bring in added depth on D. I doubt this season will be any different.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

There are a few pretty "straightforward" housekeeping items that I would get taken care of now. Although, maybe some people might think they are less straightforward. Please feel free to comment.

Joel Armia (RFA). I would bring back Armia. I suppose the question is term and amount. He's probably looking for a multi-year deal. I'd be okay with that, as long as it isn't more than two or three years. What do you think the chances of getting something done at an AAV of $2.5 million are?

Artturi Lehkonen (RFA). Despite his poor offensive year, Lehkonen is gonna get a raise. I really like him and I do believe his offensive output will improve. I wouldn't mind signing him long-term if the dollar amount was right. Does anyone feel he's worth $3-4 million per season?

Jordan Weal and Nate Thompson I am allowing to walk. Charles Hudon... I guess the same thing for him. He doesn't seem to be in the plans.

Jordie Benn and Christian Folin are interesting. Does anyone bring either of them back? Brett Kulak and Mike Reilly are RFAs. I really thought Kulak was a good addition to the team.

Your notes are all good but I think before i make any decisions about personnel im deciding how im filling that LD hole.  For example, Id rather move Drouin + ____ and get a top pairing LD and then keep a guy like Weal.  Sure he's a downgrade from JD but we have other depth forwards.    If we dont make a trade that sends away one of our top 9 then yes, a guy like Weal is expendable but first i think we have to decide what we do.

If there's one "Dream" UFA signing for me, its Panarin.  Dont think we have a chance but if he hits the open market I hope MB at least tenders an offer. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Your notes are all good but I think before i make any decisions about personnel im deciding how im filling that LD hole.  For example, Id rather move Drouin + ____ and get a top pairing LD and then keep a guy like Weal.  Sure he's a downgrade from JD but we have other depth forwards.    If we dont make a trade that sends away one of our top 9 then yes, a guy like Weal is expendable but first i think we have to decide what we do.

If there's one "Dream" UFA signing for me, its Panarin.  Dont think we have a chance but if he hits the open market I hope MB at least tenders an offer. 

Speaking of LD... Jay Bouwmeester has signed a one-year deal with St. Louis. $3.25 million.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Thompson makes me nervous because of his age. I do think he was quite useful down the stretch.

Weal performed well with us during a small sample size. I just wonder if he might be able to leverage that into something nice for himself on the UFA market. I don't want to overpay a guy who was only with the club for a very short period of time. It's possible his performances with us were an anomaly.

I think a $1.9 million AAV for Armia is unlikely. He's already getting paid $1.85 million and will certainly get a bigger raise than $500k. Lehkonen... maybe that's workable on a one or two year deal.

Oh yeah, i wouldn't sign Thompson to anything more than a 1 year deal. I don't think Weal will get more money, I'm expecting term, but I'm willing to give him a 3 year deal at similar money that he;s making now. 

I like Armia and Lehkonen as well, but they are good third line players. I don't think they deserve big raises and I really would not go over 2 for either of them. They just aren't worth it. With the top players making what they make, you just can't afford to pay 3rd liners that much and neither of them have the scoring ability that would allow them to be called top 6 or even middle 6. 

 

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3 hours ago, habs1952 said:

He's not, even though Toronto's sports media would have you believe he is. In my book he's a 5th or 6th D-man.

Agreed. As I mentioned earlier,,,, i'd rather stick with Mete for now rather then commit long term to Gardiner. I don't see him as a solution to our LD problem. If we can't solve it by trade then i'm willing to wait.

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Your notes are all good but I think before i make any decisions about personnel im deciding how im filling that LD hole.  For example, Id rather move Drouin + ____ and get a top pairing LD and then keep a guy like Weal.  Sure he's a downgrade from JD but we have other depth forwards.    If we dont make a trade that sends away one of our top 9 then yes, a guy like Weal is expendable but first i think we have to decide what we do.

If there's one "Dream" UFA signing for me, its Panarin.  Dont think we have a chance but if he hits the open market I hope MB at least tenders an offer. 

Panarin would be a target if i'm GM. I know we already have depth at that position but he automatically goes right to the top on this team and gives our PP that added boost. That's an area that needs to be addressed this summer because for whatever reason ( coaching or personnel) our PP was rancid this year.

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2 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Panarin would be a target if i'm GM. I know we already have depth at that position but he automatically goes right to the top on this team and gives our PP that added boost. That's an area that needs to be addressed this summer because for whatever reason ( coaching or personnel) our PP was rancid this year.

I would see if I could help out Florida on this one take Huberdeau to help them free cap space and gives us a top 6 winger cheaper than your going to sign Panarin for anyway

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5 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Gardiner is ... a marginal top 4.    His defensive game is atrocious to the point of being a liability at times.    Unless we're getting somebody like Karlsson, Doughty etc to play top LD I'd rather we just develop somebody.

This

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On 2019-04-07 at 2:37 PM, jeff33 said:

Just because we don't win more, doesn't mean we aren't a better team. Thats the logic. Makes lots of sense

but he objectively HAS won more. we went to 2 ECF with subban. 

Haha yes and if the trade never happened. Weber would have failed to drag smashville into the playoffs. AND THEN Subban could have brought the Canadiens to game 7 of the final round right? Adorable

Give your head a shake man. Subban didn't win more. Smashville did and they would have likely done the same without either of these d men.

Weber did not stop Montreal from making the playoffs. He just plays for a team that isn’t good enough to make it there and Montreal possibly wouldn’t have made the playoffs even if they had both these d men.

That’s the difference.

well that and Subban can skate circles around weber but Weber isn’t a defensive liability. And one of these d men are trusted by their coach to play against 1st line opponents. Can you guess which one?

 

 

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