H_T_L

2018-19 Rumour thread

414 posts in this topic

2 hours ago, maas_art said:

 

 

In the first scenario I dont see Carolina giving up DeHaan so soon after signing him. I assume by Peace you mean Pesce?  I dont think there's any way they give up those two for our three - even though Petry is probably the best of the bunch right now, Alzner is a negative value and Pesce could well turn out as good as Petry. Benn probably wouldnt do much either way.

In the edmonton scenario you might get a bite but i think it would really come down to how our scouts feel about Nurse and Puljujarvi.  As you said, an argument can be made that Scherbak = Puljujarvi.  So the trade amounts to Petry for Nurse & Benning.  I dont know if edmonton would do that part.  Maybe  Petry + Scherback for Nurse + Puljuvarvi.

As much as it would hurt to lose Petry, he's turning 31 in a month and with career numbers last year and 9 points in 10 games to start this year so his value in a trade will likely never be higher.  Will he still be a top talent once the team is actually ready to compete? or is it better to turn him into younger assets.  We know (pretty much for a fact) that MB wont trade Weber, so keeping both well into their 30s doesnt make a lot of sense. 

 

This is actually a pretty smart plan.  By slotting him in when there are injuries, he is building up his value (at least so it isnt so much of a negative) and more importantly putting some doubt in other GMs (ie "hey maybe if we brought him in to our system he'd do ok?")  which is really all you need to pull of a trade.   You're never going to get much for him but if we can just get out from under that contract without taking back a terrible one in the process,  it would be worth it. 

In order to do the Petry for Nurse the Oilers would still need to dump 2 mil of cap space cause Petry is at 5.5 and Nurse is at 3.2 that's why adding Benning at 2 mil is necessary 

Edited by campabee82
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17 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

In order to do the Petry for Nurse the Oilers would still need to dump 2 mil of cap space cause Petry is at 5.5 and Nurse is at 3.2 that's why adding Henning at 2 mil is necessary 

Right, I get that from a cap standpoint but the bigger issue is the quality of players and i cant see Edmonton dumping serviceable players for that at this stage.

A team like Toronto, who clearly has a huge hole at RD, just might. 

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3 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Right, I get that from a cap standpoint but the bigger issue is the quality of players and i cant see Edmonton dumping serviceable players for that at this stage.

A team like Toronto, who clearly has a huge hole at RD, just might. 

Edmonton has the same issues at RD as Toronto so there is that the other thing is we could give up a couple of draft picks as well. Another scenario is to pick up some of their buyout contracts to make the room but would prefer to get Benning because we are giving up one of our 2 healthy RHD if the trade for Nurse was in a month or so when Weber is back it wouldn't be as much of a concern.

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Edmonton has the same issues at RD as Toronto so there is that the other thing is we could give up a couple of draft picks as well. Another scenario is to pick up some of their buyout contracts to make the room but would prefer to get Benning because we are giving up one of our 2 healthy RHD if the trade for Nurse was in a month or so when Weber is back it wouldn't be as much of a concern.

Right but you're missing the point that Toronto is in a firm "WIN NOW" mode. Guys like Tavares and Marleau and Zaitzev and Gardiner and a lot of their middle-tier players are now well into their "peak" years.  Its entirely possible that within 3 years the leafs will have to do a mini retool and they want to win NOW.  Edmonton is still in a total state of flux.

So i could see Toronto making a hockey trade for a #1RHD but Edmonton would be quite unlikely imho.  Plus, Chiarelli seems complete shell-shocked to make any significant trades since the Hall debacle. 

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Right but you're missing the point that Toronto is in a firm "WIN NOW" mode. Guys like Tavares and Marleau and Zaitzev and Gardiner and a lot of their middle-tier players are now well into their "peak" years.  Its entirely possible that within 3 years the leafs will have to do a mini retool and they want to win NOW.  Edmonton is still in a total state of flux.

So i could see Toronto making a hockey trade for a #1RHD but Edmonton would be quite unlikely imho.  Plus, Chiarelli seems complete shell-shocked to make any significant trades since the Hall debacle. 

 

I agree with you to a certain degree however I think that Edmonton like any playoff contending team is also in "WIN NOW" mode they may not be as desperate as the Leafs but they still are looking to win now. I just don't see any situation where I would ever help the Leafs get their championship

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From the FWIW and take it with grain of salt rumours, this is from Eklund. 

According to Eklund from HockeyBuzz.com, Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin could be looking at finding help on the LD right now. 

If you remember the Kings-Canadiens deal for Pacioretty that fell through this summer, one of the players rumoured to be involved in the deal coming to Montreal was Jake Muzzin. 

While Jordie Benn has looked way better than he did last year, Muzzin would be a clear upgrade on the Habs' slow footed bearded defenseman. Muzzin is 29 years old and stands 6'3 while weighing in at 213lbs. 

It's unclear what the Kings would like to receive in return, but with Muzzin having hit 40 points in three out of his last four seasons, he would be a great addition to the Habs. 

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38 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

From the FWIW and take it with grain of salt rumours, this is from Eklund. 

According to Eklund from HockeyBuzz.com, Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin could be looking at finding help on the LD right now. 

If you remember the Kings-Canadiens deal for Pacioretty that fell through this summer, one of the players rumoured to be involved in the deal coming to Montreal was Jake Muzzin. 

While Jordie Benn has looked way better than he did last year, Muzzin would be a clear upgrade on the Habs' slow footed bearded defenseman. Muzzin is 29 years old and stands 6'3 while weighing in at 213lbs. 

It's unclear what the Kings would like to receive in return, but with Muzzin having hit 40 points in three out of his last four seasons, he would be a great addition to the Habs. 

Yeah the Muzzin rumours have not died down & Ive actually heard quite a few different names thrown around in terms of MB shopping for a top 4 LHD (OEL, despite his new contract is still a name out there).

I sort of would be surprised at this point to be honest.  I think we might try to nab another diamond in the rough like Reilly but I cant see us going after a big fish like Muzzin.   Our d is weird.   We have two top pairing Dmen but both are RHD.  We have 2 very good young mobile Dmen (Reilly and Mete) but neither have proven they are capable of top minutes.  We have good solid depth options like Juulsen, Ouellette and even Benn (if not overused) plus guys like Kulak in the minors. And there's always Schlemko who looked better this preseason than he did all last year although i think he's made of glass.  The biggest thing this defense needs is to get right of Alzner.  If we do that, we're not in terrible shape, especially once Juulsen and Weber are healthy.    Would we be better with a true #1LHD? of course. but is it worthe moving multiple assets to get one? im not convinced - and especially not if they are looking for youth and/or picks. 

 

I worry about MB acquiring a guy like Muzzin. I have a feeling the price would be something like Benn or Schlemko (fine) plus a top prospect (not good).  LA is a tough team because they are somewhat in transition so im not totally sure what they're looking for. If they dump Muzzin its likely not for a short-term fix. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, maas_art said:

Yeah the Muzzin rumours have not died down & Ive actually heard quite a few different names thrown around in terms of MB shopping for a top 4 LHD (OEL, despite his new contract is still a name out there).

I sort of would be surprised at this point to be honest.  I think we might try to nab another diamond in the rough like Reilly but I cant see us going after a big fish like Muzzin.   Our d is weird.   We have two top pairing Dmen but both are RHD.  We have 2 very good young mobile Dmen (Reilly and Mete) but neither have proven they are capable of top minutes.  We have good solid depth options like Juulsen, Ouellette and even Benn (if not overused) plus guys like Kulak in the minors. And there's always Schlemko who looked better this preseason than he did all last year although i think he's made of glass.  The biggest thing this defense needs is to get right of Alzner.  If we do that, we're not in terrible shape, especially once Juulsen and Weber are healthy.    Would we be better with a true #1LHD? of course. but is it worthe moving multiple assets to get one? im not convinced - and especially not if they are looking for youth and/or picks. 

 

I worry about MB acquiring a guy like Muzzin. I have a feeling the price would be something like Benn or Schlemko (fine) plus a top prospect (not good).  LA is a tough team because they are somewhat in transition so im not totally sure what they're looking for. If they dump Muzzin its likely not for a short-term fix. 

 

 

I wouldn't mind if we could get a guy like OWL or Nurse but I am not sure if Muzzin is fast enough to play on our team. He would be more of a Petry or webber type of player which don't get me wrong they are good players but should we not be looking for more of a smooth skating and puck moving Dman like an OEL or Nurse or Karlsson. Can Muzzin fill that need? If so then great go for it if not then I vote for a pass on him.

 

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44 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I wouldn't mind if we could get a guy like OWL or Nurse but I am not sure if Muzzin is fast enough to play on our team. He would be more of a Petry or webber type of player which don't get me wrong they are good players but should we not be looking for more of a smooth skating and puck moving Dman like an OEL or Nurse or Karlsson. Can Muzzin fill that need? If so then great go for it if not then I vote for a pass on him.

 

Yeah i totally agree.  I mean if Rob Blake goes on a bender & somehow decides he wants to give us Muzzin for Alzner and Shaw, hey Im all for it, but assuming they want actual assets I dont see there being any reason to make that trade.   Sure he'd be one of our 4 best defensmen but we'd still be a couple of year away (at best) of really contending so it seems like a bad time to make a move like that. 

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Muzzin is too old for this team.

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I know we have discussed this to the extreme but I would like to touch on it one more time. According to www.mynhltraderumors.com an undisclosed GM has been talking with Nylanders agent and was quoted as saying he would pay 7 mil per year. The reporter noted that this GM is not likely in contention to trade for Nylander though. I am curious if that could be MB. I am also thinking that now is the time to offer sheet Nylander if your going to, because as it stands right now and with the way we are playing we are not in contention for a top pick in the draft anyway, and secondly once Weber gets back we could potentially trade either Weber or Petry at the deadline for a first and second rounder and prospects. I know it's not the ideal situation but it could work out as a plus to our future and make the "retool" go much quicker. How much better would our team look for next year of we could add him, I mean ylby offer sheeting him giving up the picks then trading Weber or Petry for a first, second and prospects you basically just traded Weber or Petry and a third for Nylander and prospects. I think that would make for a better team next year. Plus we could use our picks for D prospects hopefully one NHL ready. 

Edited by campabee82
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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

I know we have discussed this to the extreme but I would like to touch on it one more time. According to www.mynhltraderumors.com an undisclosed GM has been talking with Nylanders agent and was quoted as saying he would pay 7 mil per year. The reporter noted that this GM is not likely in contention to trade for Nylander though. I am curious if that could be MB. I am also thinking that now is the time to offer sheet Nylander if your going to, because as it stands right now and with the way we are playing we are not in contention for a top pick in the draft anyway, and secondly once Weber gets back we could potentially trade either Weber or Petry at the deadline for a first and second rounder and prospects. I know it's not the ideal situation but it could work out as a plus to our future and make the "retool" go much quicker. How much better would our team look for next year of we could add him, I mean ylby offer sheeting him giving up the picks then trading Weber or Petry for a first, second and prospects you basically just traded Weber or Petry and a third for Nylander and prospects. I think that would make for a better team next year. Plus we could use our picks for D prospects hopefully one NHL ready. 

I think the Leafs would go as high as 7 mill/year.  The story is that Nylander won't move off his ask for 8X8. Settling at 7 would be the natural solution between two sides,, where one is offering 6 and the other wanting 8.

I'm thinking he gets a bridge deal next week.

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57 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I think the Leafs would go as high as 7 mill/year.  The story is that Nylander won't move off his ask for 8X8. Settling at 7 would be the natural solution between two sides,, where one is offering 6 and the other wanting 8.

I'm thinking he gets a bridge deal next week.

Agreed. I am 99% sure they match anything & sort it all out later (whether it be trading other players in the summer or moving Nylander a year later etc). 

I do think they would trade him if it meant a #1 RHD to play with Morgan Rielly.  I think their ideal would be a young guy who doesnt deserve big $$ - or who is already on a good contract.  So like lets say Dallas decided they wanted Nylander so bad they would give up John Klingberg - then I think Toronto is all over that.    There arent many options though so i think its entirely possible they'd entertain a Nylander for Weber deal but i dont think MB would. 

My gut tells me this deal gets done quite soon too - most like a bridge deal. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Agreed. I am 99% sure they match anything & sort it all out later (whether it be trading other players in the summer or moving Nylander a year later etc). 

I do think they would trade him if it meant a #1 RHD to play with Morgan Rielly.  I think their ideal would be a young guy who doesnt deserve big $$ - or who is already on a good contract.  So like lets say Dallas decided they wanted Nylander so bad they would give up John Klingberg - then I think Toronto is all over that.    There arent many options though so i think its entirely possible they'd entertain a Nylander for Weber deal but i dont think MB would. 

My gut tells me this deal gets done quite soon too - most like a bridge deal. 

 

 

I don't feel like at this point he will sign a bridge deal if he was going to I think it would have been done when they first offered it.

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35 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I don't feel like at this point he will sign a bridge deal if he was going to I think it would have been done when they first offered it.

If it's a choice between a bridge of 2 years or sitting out the rest of the season i think he signs. He'll hold out as long as he can to get the big term but i doubt the Leafs back down at this point. I'm going to guess 2 years at 6 mill then he's a UFA in line for the big payout and all the leverage.  

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9 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

If it's a choice between a bridge of 2 years or sitting out the rest of the season i think he signs. He'll hold out as long as he can to get the big term but i doubt the Leafs back down at this point. I'm going to guess 2 years at 6 mill then he's a UFA in line for the big payout and all the leverage.  

no, he's not a UFA after 2 years but he would be eligible for arbitration. 

That's what their hold up is because the reality is he has no recourse right now so if he takes bridge deal I would be surprised if its more than 5. If I'm Nylander and I am really unhappy, I sign the qualifying offer (which I believe is only like a million dollars - unless it includes bonuses maybe?) and then deal with them next year when he can at least go to arbitration. I think that's his only leverage and Toronto's worst nightmare. They really messed up when they signed Marleau... and to some extent Tavares too. Nylander knows in the long run he will be moved out for a D man. 

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Actually I'm not sure if Nylander is eligible for salary arbitration next year cause he only played 22 games his rookie year and I think he would have needed to play 40. If thats the case Nylander has ZERO leverage and if he signs a bridge deal the leafs have no reason to be generous. 

This is really a situation that is begging for an offer sheet. I would do it. He's worth a 1, 2 and 3 and if Toronto matches than so be it, it hurts our rivals. But MB won't do it. Most GMs won't do it because it makes it more likely someone will do it to them.  

I'd give him 7x8. We still keep all our prospects and players. And it greatly changes our team. 

Edited by habsisme
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7 minutes ago, habsisme said:

no, he's not a UFA after 2 years but he would be eligible for arbitration. 

That's what their hold up is because the reality is he has no recourse right now so if he takes bridge deal I would be surprised if its more than 5. If I'm Nylander and I am really unhappy, I sign the qualifying offer (which I believe is only like a million dollars - unless it includes bonuses maybe?) and then deal with them next year when he can at least go to arbitration. I think that's his only leverage and Toronto's worst nightmare. They really messed up when they signed Marleau... and to some extent Tavares too. Nylander knows in the long run he will be moved out for a D man. 

My mistake. Younger then i first thought.

They have options next year if they yield to his demands this year but somebody will have to go eventually that they don't want to lose,,,, plus it ties their hands for upgrades in other areas

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3 minutes ago, habsisme said:

Actually I'm not sure if Nylander is eligible for salary arbitration next year cause he only played 22 games his rookie year and I think he would have needed to play 40. If thats the case Nylander has ZERO leverage and if he signs a bridge deal the leafs have no reason to be generous. 

This is really a situation that is begging for an offer sheet. I would do it. He's worth a 1, 2 and 3 and if Toronto matches than so be it, it hurts our rivals. But MB won't do it. Most GMs won't do it because it makes it more likely someone will do it to them.  

I'd give him 7x8. We still keep all our prospects and players. And it greatly changes our team. 

As you said,,,, GM's won't do it or would be very reluctant. They'll match and deal with the problem later. GM's don't like to burn bridges even if it hurts a rival now.

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This is true but there are reports that some GM's have already been in contact with Nylanders agent and on said that they were not in the running to make a trade with Toronto so that says someone will be looking at sending an offer sheet

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6 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

This is true but there are reports that some GM's have already been in contact with Nylanders agent and on said that they were not in the running to make a trade with Toronto so that says someone will be looking at sending an offer sheet

well I definitely think he's worth the risk of 8 million and losing a 1, 2 and 3 given that we are likely at least battling for a playoff spot and with him, we likely are in the playoffs. Plus we have 2 seconds and 2 fourths next year. One of the youngest teams in the league and some decent prospects coming up. I wouldn't trade for Nylander but I would be willing to offer sheet him. 

60 point player in first 2 full seasons, right handed shot, can play center. Downside is he's not really a 2 way guy. 

Edited by habsisme
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36 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

This is true but there are reports that some GM's have already been in contact with Nylanders agent and on said that they were not in the running to make a trade with Toronto so that says someone will be looking at sending an offer sheet

Are GM's allowed to approach his agent?? Isn't that tampering?

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4 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Are GM's allowed to approach his agent?? Isn't that tampering?

No he is a free agent not under contract with anyone. Toronto just owns the right to match or compensation 

Edited by campabee82
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no way this team takes a swing at Nylander, they just don't think that way.

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