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Kotkaniemi.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Yeah I dont disagree actually - this was more about what I thought we might actually see Julien do going into the season.

Like you,  I would also prefer seeing Drouin - JFK - Gallagher, for example, but I dont think Julien will break up the GDT (Gallagher-Danault-Tatar) line and I think he wants to keep a FInn (armia or lehkonen) next to JFK right now. 

Yeah I get that, I think they will probably do something similar to the lines you said.

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5 hours ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Hopefully he will excel as well as he has been during the upcoming regular season.

amen brother! I cant wait till he cements himself in our roster, sooner or later

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I'm truly just blown away by the progression, I wasn't worried one bit when he looked underwhelming in that rookie camp 3 weeks ago because I always thought of him as a high end prospect but long term project. I figured he'd be in Finland this year, split Laval/Habs next year, and fully establish himself the season after that. 

But he's just been so good and by far the best center on the team since prime Plekanec so I'm wondering if he can just end up sticking the entire year. Maybe he doesn't hold that 1C spot the full year and goes to the WJC like Mete, but it feels like it's going to be really hard to get Julien on board with cutting him at some point and leaving Danault or Domi as the 1C. 

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4 hours ago, Noob616 said:

I'm truly just blown away by the progression, I wasn't worried one bit when he looked underwhelming in that rookie camp 3 weeks ago because I always thought of him as a high end prospect but long term project. I figured he'd be in Finland this year, split Laval/Habs next year, and fully establish himself the season after that. 

But he's just been so good and by far the best center on the team since prime Plekanec so I'm wondering if he can just end up sticking the entire year. Maybe he doesn't hold that 1C spot the full year and goes to the WJC like Mete, but it feels like it's going to be really hard to get Julien on board with cutting him at some point and leaving Danault or Domi as the 1C. 

He seems to have earned a top-six center role with the team in camp. I would like to see him there on opening night. Danault or Domi can hold down the other top-six center spot. With Poehling and Suzuki coming along in the next few years, getting Kotkaniemi in there now might be a good idea from a development stand-point.

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22 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

He seems to have earned a top-six center role with the team in camp. I would like to see him there on opening night. Danault or Domi can hold down the other top-six center spot. With Poehling and Suzuki coming along in the next few years, getting Kotkaniemi in there now might be a good idea from a development stand-point.

There's nothing bad about waiting to see just how good a player of Kotka's pedigree can be over a 9 game trial at the start of the season... it is a win-win for the player and the team. And, other team's do fast-track what can be considered future stars, so why not the Habs. The only question that remains IMHO is whether he will stay after that time if he merits it. The problem, however, may still be MB's statement about who his centers would be to start the Season. Whether or not we agree with MB is at least to be questioned.

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8 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

looks like he may be here to stay?

 

Well, he played against men in Finland, so he's used the heavy going, albeit on a smaller surface. 

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

looks like he may be here to stay?

 

Possibly. Next would be to surpass that 9 game mark. I'm guessing we'll know better when Shaw is back on the roster. 

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47 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

Possibly. Next would be to surpass that 9 game mark. I'm guessing we'll know better when Shaw is back on the roster. 

There could also be other injuries by then. Or maybe Domi will go and get himself suspended again!

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i think he is here for good he is the only really talented offensive center we have who is close to ready. he may have to be sheltered from time to time but what can he learn at a lower level really? it is just his size that worries me if he really gets going he is going to be a target as he will be the one driving our offence.

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9 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

i think he is here for good he is the only really talented offensive center we have who is close to ready. he may have to be sheltered from time to time but what can he learn at a lower level really? it is just his size that worries me if he really gets going he is going to be a target as he will be the one driving our offence.

At some point he has to play with the big boys, either this year or next, i know its the NHL, but most kids from the age of 12 or younger learn to protect themselves,so your not in a vulnerable position, keep your head up as they say. I think he has a real high IQ for the game so i think he will be fine. Personally, i would have him on the third line with maybe Leks on the Left and Armia/Sherback on the right, and get him on the PP. As the year moves along you can move him up the lineup.

Its time to reward players for playing better then other players and he has. Its refreshing to have a young guy who realizes you have to be able to play well in all three zones to be succesful.

Edited by caperns61
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I think he stays the whole season simply due to the desperate need at the centre position.  I think that's why MB brought in Armia in the first place.  I'm actually surprised he didn't go after Pori native Eric Haula in the Patches deal.  Or maybe he did and had to settle on Tatar.

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3 hours ago, caperns61 said:

At some point he has to play with the big boys, either this year or next, i know its the NHL, but most kids from the age of 12 or younger learn to protect themselves,so your not in a vulnerable position, keep your head up as they say. I think he has a real high IQ for the game so i think he will be fine. Personally, i would have him on the third line with maybe Leks on the Left and Armia/Sherback on the right, and get him on the PP. As the year moves along you can move him up the lineup.

Its time to reward players for playing better then other players and he has. Its refreshing to have a young guy who realizes you have to be able to play well in all three zones to be succesful.

He has definitely earned the right to be on the team however I disagree with where you think he should start. I am of the opinion of if he is going to be our number one centre he needs to start there. The only way he learns to play against players like Mathews and Crosby is to match him against them. I think that's how he has been able to excel with his development is by not sheltering him. Most people can't learn this way however I believe like McDavid that's what pushes him to excel. We already know that this season is going to be a write off so why not just have him on the first line where you want him when there is not as much pressure to go deep into the playoffs. I think he handles all three zones well enough now to play first line minutes. It's better than burrying him on the 3rd line this year like was done with other players and stunted their development and making him try and develop in a first line position next year or the year after when there is pressure to make the playoffs.

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52 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

He has definitely earned the right to be on the team however I disagree with where you think he should start. I am of the opinion of if he is going to be our number one centre he needs to start there. The only way he learns to play against players like Mathews and Crosby is to match him against them. I think that's how he has been able to excel with his development is by not sheltering him. Most people can't learn this way however I believe like McDavid that's what pushes him to excel. We already know that this season is going to be a write off so why not just have him on the first line where you want him when there is not as much pressure to go deep into the playoffs. I think he handles all three zones well enough now to play first line minutes. It's better than burrying him on the 3rd line this year like was done with other players and stunted their development and making him try and develop in a first line position next year or the year after when there is pressure to make the playoffs.

This.  Very much so this.  If he's Barkov or Kopitar 2.0  then mentor him as such.

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

He has definitely earned the right to be on the team however I disagree with where you think he should start. I am of the opinion of if he is going to be our number one centre he needs to start there. The only way he learns to play against players like Mathews and Crosby is to match him against them. I think that's how he has been able to excel with his development is by not sheltering him. Most people can't learn this way however I believe like McDavid that's what pushes him to excel. We already know that this season is going to be a write off so why not just have him on the first line where you want him when there is not as much pressure to go deep into the playoffs. I think he handles all three zones well enough now to play first line minutes. It's better than burrying him on the 3rd line thhis year like was done with other players and stunted their development and making him try and develop in a first line position next year or the year after when there is pressure to make the playoffs.

That would be suicide for a young kid, I like his IQ and he has played well in preseason. But that would be crazy to have him lining him up against the Crosbies, Bergerons, MCdavids, Mathews of the game on purpose. And just because he had a really good preseason, regular season is a whole new animal. He has played against castoffs and rookies who are trying to earn a spot. Also the NHL regulars are just getting there rust off.

I get how much hab fans want a superstar, but after 4 preseason games I would not be ready to annoint him just yet. When I said he earned a spot I just meant on the team to start the season. And I don't know why you would say buried on the third line????...

 

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33 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

That would be suicide for a young kid, I like his IQ and he has played well in preseason. But that would be crazy to have him lining him up against the Crosbies, Bergerons, MCdavids, Mathews of the game on purpose. And just because he had a really good preseason, regular season is a whole new animal. He has played against castoffs and rookies who are trying to earn a spot. Also the NHL regulars are just getting there rust off.

I get how much hab fans want a superstar, but after 4 preseason games I would not be ready to annoint him just yet. When I said he earned a spot I just meant on the team to start the season. And I don't know why you would say buried on the third line????...

 

Agreed. Give the kid some time and breathing room to grow into it. The regular season is a whole different animal.

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1 hour ago, caperns61 said:

That would be suicide for a young kid, I like his IQ and he has played well in preseason. But that would be crazy to have him lining him up against the Crosbies, Bergerons, MCdavids, Mathews of the game on purpose. And just because he had a really good preseason, regular season is a whole new animal. He has played against castoffs and rookies who are trying to earn a spot. Also the NHL regulars are just getting there rust off.

I get how much hab fans want a superstar, but after 4 preseason games I would not be ready to annoint him just yet. When I said he earned a spot I just meant on the team to start the season. And I don't know why you would say buried on the third line????...

 

Ok correct me if you THINK I am wrong but did Toronto not start their entire regular roster on Wednesday night and Kotkaniemi did play on the top line too right and he STILL played well I mean we did lose but not because of anything HE did. We lost cause of our defenseman turnovers on the power play. He has the ability and the drive and determination to play on the top line without letting who he is playing against affect his abilities. Management can't do the same thing to him that they done to other skilled players like Galchenyuk and others before him if we want a true number one centre play him there. And I said burried on the third line cause let's face it the third line on ANY team might see 10 minutes of ice time a game you think that will be helpful next year when we ask him to be our number one centre and has to face Crosby, Mathews, Bergeron ect ect plus deal with the pressure of contending for a playoff spot cause let's face it this year is pretty well assumed to be a write off by everyone but next year we WILL be expected to at least make a wildcard spot.

Edited by campabee82
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Play him as a 1C. By that, I mean you give the kid good linemates (like Drouin and Gallagher or Drouin and Lehkonen) and you give him PP time. You shelter him by keeping his minutes at a reasonable level and by giving him O-zone starts and by matching lines when you can. Give him everything to succeed and gain confidence, but you have to play him with first-line type players, not sticking him on the wing in the bottom 6 and ruining his development the way we did Galchenyuk and Eller and Andrighetto and so on. Even Pacioretty was awful playing the 3rd-4th line here. It wasn't until he went back to the AHL and got confidence playing the top line there that he was able to come back and succeed, and when he did it was because he got called up and stuck on a line with Gomez and Gionta and had success playing an offensive role. You have to keep guys in the roles they're cut out for, not ask them to be something they're not and then hope that being a 3rd line LW will help him be a 1C some day. Live with the growing pains, shelter him with what you can, but teach him to do what you want him to.

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Ok correct me if you THINK I am wrong but did Toronto not start their entire regular roster on Wednesday night and Kotkaniemi did play on the top line too right and he STILL played well I mean we did lose but not because of anything HE did. We lost cause of our defenseman turnovers on the power play. He has the ability and the drive and determination to play on the top line without letting who he is playing against affect his abilities. Management can't do the same thing to him that they done to other skilled players like Galchenyuk and others before him if we want a true number one centre play him there. And I said burried on the third line cause let's face it the third line on ANY team might see 10 minutes of ice time a game you think that will be helpful next year when we ask him to be our number one centre and has to face Crosby, Mathews, Bergeron ect ect plus deal with the pressure of contending for a playoff spot cause let's face it this year is pretty well assumed to be a write off by everyone but next year we WILL be expected to at least make a wildcard spot.

Again 4 pre season games does not make a number one center. 

Galchenyk ruined Galchenyk nobody else. Blaming everyone including the man in the moon for his shortcomings is old news.  Galchenyk knew only one zone the offensive zone and his last two seasons he was not even very good at that. 

As i stated ealier starting him with Lekonen and Sherback/Armia and easing in for the first 20 or so games, lots of PP time, if he succeeds then move him up the lineup..

He is only 18 coming from a league that only played 60 games, a league where only about 5% at best could even make it to the NHL

And just to add to this do you really think we have a first line anyway more like one second line, two thirds and a 4th. I am sure the top 3 lines will be close in icetime.

For all we know he may end up back in Finland. I personally think he will be here for the season. But, i prefer a wait and see before ruining him,  instead let him ease in and develop at his pace dont try to force his devolpment

 

Edited by caperns61
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8 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

 

Again 4 pre season games does not make a number one center. 

Galchenyk ruined Galchenyk nobody else. Blaming everyone including the man in the moon for his shortcomings is old news.  Galchenyk knew only one zone the offensive zone and his last two seasons he was not even very good at that. 

As i stated ealier starting him with Lekonen and Sherback/Armia and easing in for the first 20 or so games, lots of PP time, if he succeeds then move him up the lineup..

He is only 18 coming from a league that only played 60 games, a league where only about 5% at best could even make it to the NHL

And just to add to this do you really think we have a first line anyway more like one second line, two thirds and a 4th. I am sure the top 3 lines will be close in icetime.

For all we know he may end up back in Finland. I personally think he will be here for the season. But, i prefer a wait and see before ruining him,  instead let him ease in and develop at his pace dont try to force his devolpment

 

Ok let's say the top 3 lines do match pretty close in ice time and you play him on the third line. Now we are halfway through the season and he has earned his way to the top line just as the real playoff picture starts to take form now he not only has to learn to play top line minutes against top lines of other teams but also during the second most difficult time of the season when teams are really starting to battle and play harder. Now he is being asked to play harder against the top players in the league without any experience on the number one line during playoff pushes what do think that will do for his confidence? No start him o  the first line when the teams are just starting the season and there is no pressure that will boost his confidence even when he makes mistakes at this time of year it wouldn't hurt him as much as trying to move him up late in the year.

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One thing I would consider regarding his development may be decided according to what he has already shown... starting off slow and getting better each game. That said, would it not be better to give him time to move up the line-up rather than be moved down if he has a rough start?

He will still get a chance to play an important role that goes along with his skill level regarding his abilities as a two-way center. If that means third line with power-play and/or penalty kill minutes, I don't see that as a problem IMO. If/when he excels, he moves ahead and up to further his development.

 

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Yeah i think its pretty guarateed he plays game 10.

As I said earlier in the thread, the bigger question will be at game 39.   I feel like he's going to stay all year but if they worry about his confidence or endurance then its possible they lend him to the WJC team and then let him go home or go to laval or whatever.   Burning a year off of ELC seems to be not much of a concern for management but having him able to be a 26 yr old UFA would be. At this point id say:

Chance he plays game 10:  99%

Chance he plays game 40 (and thus, all year):  80%

 

 

 

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34 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah i think its pretty guarateed he plays game 10.

As I said earlier in the thread, the bigger question will be at game 39.   I feel like he's going to stay all year but if they worry about his confidence or endurance then its possible they lend him to the WJC team and then let him go home or go to laval or whatever.   Burning a year off of ELC seems to be not much of a concern for management but having him able to be a 26 yr old UFA would be. At this point id say:

Chance he plays game 10:  99%

Chance he plays game 40 (and thus, all year):  80%

If the team is intelligent about his contracts, then him being UFA at 26 shouldn't be a concern.

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