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GreekHockeyCoach

Is Price done

Is Price done being an elite goalie   23 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Price done being an elite goalie

    • Yes
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    • No
      13

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94 posts in this topic

On 11/18/2018 at 3:27 PM, BizarreReverend said:

What's frustrating about Price is that he's become inconsistent. His play will be so poor a thread like this starts, then he's lights out for a couple of games in a row.

And then this thread is justified once again :4322:

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7 hours ago, GreekHockeyCoach said:

And then this thread is justified once again :4322:

But is it though? I didnt see all the game last night (thankfully) but I did see Price make a number of amazing saves.  If he stops 8 sure fire goals and lets in 5 that he just could not get to, is he really playing below god-status?  I mean we are hanging him out to dry and he is doing pretty near the best he can but even the best goalie in the world cant stop everything if you keep giving the other teams good looks. 

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Price is not getting the defensive support that he needs to be great. No doubt. Weber coming back will help, but we still have some guys that just are not NHL defenseman.

They just cannot make the right decisions on most plays. 

Price however has always bother me because he makes the great saves. But then lets in a goal that just makes you shake you head, and its usually one that decides the game.

 

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14 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

Price however has always bother me because he makes the great saves. But then lets in a goal that just makes you shake you head, and its usually one that decides the game.

The problem with Price is that sometimes he overthinks the play.  The Eller goal in OT the other night was a perfect example.  It was, in hindsight, soft. But you could see he was making a move to where he though Eller was going to shoot.   In a post game interview he said that Eller whiffed a little & the puck went somewhere different from where Price thinks Eller planned.  

That makes it tricky to stop some pucks but I dont know how you solve that. If he wasnt anticipating shots he wouldnt have stopped that Ovi shot at the end of regulation & we wouldnt have gotten the 1 point.

 

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8 hours ago, GreekHockeyCoach said:

And then this thread is justified once again :4322:

Should start a new thread "  How bad is the Defence  '

 

FWIW the guys on Sportsnet ( Maclean, B Burke, Friedman ) said of the goals last night against NJD only 1 was his fault , the rest the D left him out to dry

and the game against Washington would have been worse if not for him

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1 hour ago, Regis22 said:

Should start a new thread "  How bad is the Defence  '

 

FWIW the guys on Sportsnet ( Maclean, B Burke, Friedman ) said of the goals last night against NJD only 1 was his fault , the rest the D left him out to dry

and the game against Washington would have been worse if not for him

Certainly the last two games can be blamed on our defensive zone incompetency rather than Price playing poorly. Although the overtime winner Eller scored was a stinker. I can't clearly recall the goals from last night's game.

Edited by jennifer_rocket
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3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Certainly the last two games can be blamed on our defensive zone incompetency rather than Price playing poorly. Although the overtime winner Eller scored was a stinker. I can't clearly recall the goals from last night's game.

According to TSN only one was considered to be poor play from Price. I didn't see the game so I can't say for sure but they were saying a lot of give a ways in our zone and 2 on 1s down low that resulted in goals.

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I think Price has struggled this year in general, but he stole two wins on the West Coast and I think he actually played quite well against Washington and reasonably well against NJ. These last two games, most of the goals against were strictly because of extremely poor defence.

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3 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I think Price has struggled this year in general, but he stole two wins on the West Coast and I think he actually played quite well against Washington and reasonably well against NJ. These last two games, most of the goals against were strictly because of extremely poor defence.

Yep and it has been a funny year for goalies around the league too.

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1 minute ago, ramcharger440 said:

Yep and it has been a funny year for goalies around the league too.

It is a game of centimeters and makes me wonder just how much the new equipment standards have affected scoring. Don't know if it's just me, but i'm seeing a lot of goals being scored between the arms and body pads. It will be interesting to see the comparisons once we have a bigger sample size. As you said,,,, a lot of past elite type goalies seem to have inflated numbers this year.

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13 hours ago, H_T_L said:

It is a game of centimeters and makes me wonder just how much the new equipment standards have affected scoring. Don't know if it's just me, but i'm seeing a lot of goals being scored between the arms and body pads. It will be interesting to see the comparisons once we have a bigger sample size. As you said,,,, a lot of past elite type goalies seem to have inflated numbers this year.

I've also noticed a lot of goals being scored under the arm (not just on Price). Seems like the smaller chest protectors might be allowing some pucks to squeak through.

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13 hours ago, H_T_L said:

It is a game of centimeters and makes me wonder just how much the new equipment standards have affected scoring. Don't know if it's just me, but i'm seeing a lot of goals being scored between the arms and body pads. It will be interesting to see the comparisons once we have a bigger sample size. As you said,,,, a lot of past elite type goalies seem to have inflated numbers this year.

 

1 minute ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I've also noticed a lot of goals being scored under the arm (not just on Price). Seems like the smaller chest protectors might be allowing some pucks to squeak through.

Price definitely looks smaller in nets IMO. I wonder though, watching every game I have, if all goalies are complying if not cheating in terms of the equipment changes. I think playing deeper in his crease similar to Lunqvist would be more effective than flailing and losing his positional/hit-me style that made him look so in control and calm in the past. I think side-to-side coverage would improve while allowing him to control positioning more.

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I would say his last 4 games even though two had 5 against he actually played good solid with some great saves. The OT goal of Eller I think may have caught him off guard. If he continues to play like he has just recently I think he's back. It has been talked a lot of perceived soft goals squeakers as you may there have been more of, I do believe that is do to the equipment changes this season across the league.

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1 hour ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

 

Price definitely looks smaller in nets IMO. I wonder though, watching every game I have, if all goalies are complying if not cheating in terms of the equipment changes. I think playing deeper in his crease similar to Lunqvist would be more effective than flailing and losing his positional/hit-me style that made him look so in control and calm in the past. I think side-to-side coverage would improve while allowing him to control positioning more.

Its extremely rare for a goalie to change his playing style as its so hard for them to adjust to. Think about it this way if you have been driving for 15 years and were to be asked to change the way you drive how easy would it be for you? For most people it would be a challenge cause that would mean changing the way you think and process what is going on around you. It is equally as hard for a goalie to change their playing style. 

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21 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Its extremely rare for a goalie to change his playing style as its so hard for them to adjust to. Think about it this way if you have been driving for 15 years and were to be asked to change the way you drive how easy would it be for you? For most people it would be a challenge cause that would mean changing the way you think and process what is going on around you. It is equally as hard for a goalie to change their playing style. 

The fact is, the way I see it, he has changed his style to one where he seems to be making moves that he didn't when he was so great in the past. Carey was a very strong positional/hit-me style goalie before but now takes himself out of position very often.

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4 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

The fact is, the way I see it, he has changed his style to one where he seems to be making moves that he didn't when he was so great in the past. Carey was a very strong positional/hit-me style goalie before but now takes himself out of position very often.

Interestingly he's mentioned a couple of times that he and Waite have watched a couple of his old games recently. I wonder if the change was intentional - or just his body responding to the new equipment - and if they are trying to get him back to his old style. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Interestingly he's mentioned a couple of times that he and Waite have watched a couple of his old games recently. I wonder if the change was intentional - or just his body responding to the new equipment - and if they are trying to get him back to his old style. 

The way I see it is he hasn't really changed his style so much as adjusting to the equipment changes or in the case of last year a nagging injury. He is still out challenging shooters and playing butterfly style. I don't think that playing deeper in the net and trying to react to a shot rather than anticipate a shot is the answer. I don't think Price or any goalie would be able to make that type of adjustment. Think of this way if I was to throw a ball at your head you would react in one of 2 ways first duck or second attempt to catch it. If your the type to duck and I said next time you have to try and catch it but didn't tell you when I was going to attempt to throw it again your instincts kick in and you would probably duck every time. If you finally were able to overcome this type of instinct it would take a while to accomplish. This is the same sort of thing your suggesting Price do. Goalies play on instinct, anticipation and reaction all of which are very difficult to change.

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7 hours ago, campabee82 said:

The way I see it is he hasn't really changed his style so much as adjusting to the equipment changes or in the case of last year a nagging injury. He is still out challenging shooters and playing butterfly style. I don't think that playing deeper in the net and trying to react to a shot rather than anticipate a shot is the answer. I don't think Price or any goalie would be able to make that type of adjustment. Think of this way if I was to throw a ball at your head you would react in one of 2 ways first duck or second attempt to catch it. If your the type to duck and I said next time you have to try and catch it but didn't tell you when I was going to attempt to throw it again your instincts kick in and you would probably duck every time. If you finally were able to overcome this type of instinct it would take a while to accomplish. This is the same sort of thing your suggesting Price do. Goalies play on instinct, anticipation and reaction all of which are very difficult to change.

I'd try to catch it while ducking. :P

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Price is done IMO. Let`s get what we can offensively and defensively as trade value for his $10.5 million.

Ridiculous for us to keep an injury prone, inconsistent goaltender for that price.

We have solid enough goal-tending with our youngsters IMO.

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4 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Price is done IMO. Let`s get what we can offensively and defensively as trade value for his $10.5 million.

Ridiculous for us to keep an injury prone, inconsistent goaltender for that price.

We have solid enough goal-tending with our youngsters IMO.

Correct. He'll get the most return even if we have to eat salary. This D is terrible. Lots of holes in the swiss cheese to fill. 

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I 'd cut him some slack , he hasn't had an NHL D in front of him in 2 years.

Edited by Regis22
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41 minutes ago, Habs=stanleycup said:

Price is done IMO. Let`s get what we can offensively and defensively as trade value for his $10.5 million.

Ridiculous for us to keep an injury prone, inconsistent goaltender for that price.

We have solid enough goal-tending with our youngsters IMO.

 

36 minutes ago, habby67 said:

Correct. He'll get the most return even if we have to eat salary. This D is terrible. Lots of holes in the swiss cheese to fill. 

You two are obviously not watching any of the games this year Price has been the Price of old for at least the last 6 games. Let's be honest you really think MB will get what he should if he traded Price, no he would do a 1 for 1 trade and get a RHD like Alzner to play with Alzner. The last 3 losses have been one on the D and 2 on bad penalties. First Drouin tonight and Domi last night. They killed our momentum in both games. If you make a Price trade it will just mirror the Roy trade we will get crap and be crap for another 20 years and where ever Price goes is likely to win the cup this year. Only difference to what your suggesting is that Roy demanded a trade and your trying to push out our BEST asset. Even if MB makes that trade we will lose EVERY time. No trade works in our favor when Price is moved, kind of like if Nylander is moved out of Toronto they can't win that trade either no matter who they get in return. 

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18 hours ago, campabee82 said:

The way I see it is he hasn't really changed his style so much as adjusting to the equipment changes or in the case of last year a nagging injury. He is still out challenging shooters and playing butterfly style. I don't think that playing deeper in the net and trying to react to a shot rather than anticipate a shot is the answer. I don't think Price or any goalie would be able to make that type of adjustment. Think of this way if I was to throw a ball at your head you would react in one of 2 ways first duck or second attempt to catch it. If your the type to duck and I said next time you have to try and catch it but didn't tell you when I was going to attempt to throw it again your instincts kick in and you would probably duck every time. If you finally were able to overcome this type of instinct it would take a while to accomplish. This is the same sort of thing your suggesting Price do. Goalies play on instinct, anticipation and reaction all of which are very difficult to change.

You seemed to ignore the fact that I said Price was a positional/hit-me style goalie in the past which made him look so calm and controlled. That relies less on reflex and reaction which he now seems to employ more than before be cause he is out of position and has to react.

I suggested that he play deeper in his net to avoid giving players an advantage on shots coming from angles. When a goalie challenges a player he opens up opportunities to score from an angle via a passing play as was the case on the shot from Ovie. Anticipation would have meant he knew that was the play and he would have positioned himself to move sideways by staying deeper in his crease as he has done in the past when he didn't challenge the initial shooter as much.

I agree it may be hard to change instinct and reflex, but positioning is not the same and where adjustments can be made by most professionals.

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1 hour ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

You seemed to ignore the fact that I said Price was a positional/hit-me style goalie in the past which made him look so calm and controlled. That relies less on reflex and reaction which he now seems to employ more than before be cause he is out of position and has to react.

I suggested that he play deeper in his net to avoid giving players an advantage on shots coming from angles. When a goalie challenges a player he opens up opportunities to score from an angle via a passing play as was the case on the shot from Ovie. Anticipation would have meant he knew that was the play and he would have positioned himself to move sideways by staying deeper in his crease as he has done in the past when he didn't challenge the initial shooter as much.

I agree it may be hard to change instinct and reflex, but positioning is not the same and where adjustments can be made by most professionals.

Let's just agree to disagree cause IF the D played better this would all be a mute point. Price would be able to trust that his D was picking up the pass across and not have to move as fast side to side. Problem really is that coaching and management don't have any idea that they are playing the wrong players in the wrong situations. The problem with this team isn't Price it's the D. Sure Price looked average at the beginning of the year but he has really turned it on as of late but has not had support from the D to cut off passes across or block shots. Most of the problems this year result in the coaches and management decisions. If CJ would bench either 2 of Alzner and Schlemko we would be better. If he didn't play Schlemko in OT or to start games we would be better. If we only played Benn, Alzner and Schlemko on the 3rd pairing we would be better. If Deslauriers didn't play we would be better. If MB was creative in the least and valued skill and speed over size we would be better. If MB didn't under value players in trades we would get better returns. If he was half a GM and considered some of his options with situations like Nylander or Pulujarvi and took advantage of them we would be better. If we could have gotten just 1 actual first line forward instead of having to rely on 2 second lines and 2 3rd lines we would be a better team. None of this means that price is done or even that we should trade him cause let's be honest if we allow MB to trade price how much better do you REALLY think we will be. I mean look at all of the past trades prior to this year did we really get better from them or worse?

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32 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Let's just agree to disagree cause IF the D played better this would all be a mute point. Price would be able to trust that his D was picking up the pass across and not have to move as fast side to side. Problem really is that coaching and management don't have any idea that they are playing the wrong players in the wrong situations. The problem with this team isn't Price it's the D. Sure Price looked average at the beginning of the year but he has really turned it on as of late but has not had support from the D to cut off passes across or block shots. Most of the problems this year result in the coaches and management decisions. If CJ would bench either 2 of Alzner and Schlemko we would be better. If he didn't play Schlemko in OT or to start games we would be better. If we only played Benn, Alzner and Schlemko on the 3rd pairing we would be better. If Deslauriers didn't play we would be better. If MB was creative in the least and valued skill and speed over size we would be better. If MB didn't under value players in trades we would get better returns. If he was half a GM and considered some of his options with situations like Nylander or Pulujarvi and took advantage of them we would be better. If we could have gotten just 1 actual first line forward instead of having to rely on 2 second lines and 2 3rd lines we would be a better team. None of this means that price is done or even that we should trade him cause let's be honest if we allow MB to trade price how much better do you REALLY think we will be. I mean look at all of the past trades prior to this year did we really get better from them or worse?

I agree with most of what you say and get that you feel Price is not done being elite... I agree he is not done, although being elite means not letting in soft goals too often. I think he has shown some eliteness (is that a word?) at times, but at the same time not so much. I wouldn't say all is lost, but regardless of the team in front of him there is still room for improvement and consistency on his part.

And BTW... you still ignored my reasoning about what could help his own game.

Edited by Habs_Hockey_Nutz
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