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Julien

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52 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

And it was only int his last 3-4 starts, since the D talent dropped off, that Carey has started to struggle again

Carey has had 12 starts this season. He's posted a better than .900 save percentage in only 4 of them.

Karl Alzner has played in 5 games in which Carey played this season, and here are Carey's save percentages in those 5 games: .920, .882, 1.000, .857, and .806. two of his 3 best games by save percentage came in starts when Alzner was in the line-up. Conversely, in games without Alzner, he's also put up a few stinkers of .885, .897, .871, .889, and .844.

Jordie Benn, for his part, has played more than 20 minutes three times this season... two of those games were ones in which Niemi started and the only one in which Carey played was the 3-0 shutout win Carey posted against Boston.

Has the D talent dropped off with Alzner playing the past couple of games and Schlemko coming back and Benn playing top pair? Absolutely. The D corps is inadequate for an NHL team. But on the other hand, the centers and wingers have played pretty decent team defence this year, and we've controlled play and shot attempts in the majority of our games, which is to say, team defence by possessing the puck. Carey has been bad with Alzner and top-pairing Benn, but he's also been bad without them. Carey's also been successful playing with bad D men like Murray, Bouillon, Emelin, Gill, and so on in front of him too. So to me, this isn't just about the defence corps, it's about Carey having lost something too. Blaming the D alone is an easy way out and just because Price has been solid in the past, doesn't mean he's immune to having slumps or seeing his level of play drop off with age/injuries/external factors.

 

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Like I said,

- Among goalies with at least 200 min played at 5v5, Price is 17th of 51 goalies in terms of most rushes against per 60. That's mid-pack

- Among goalies with at least 200 min plated at 5v5, Price is 46th of 51 goalies in terms of rebound attempts against per 60. He only faces on average 2.1 rebound attempts per 60 minutes of ice time. The guys facing the most rebounds lincude Braden Holtby (5.6 per 60), Craig Anderson (5.1 per 60), John Gibson (4.9 per 60), and Semyon Varlamov (4.6 per 60). All those guys face more than double the chances against by rebound than Carey has.

- He is 37th of 51 goalies in terms of the number of high-danger scoring chances against per 60.

 

So yeah, all those stats tell us exactly what we need to know... Carey is getting an average number of rushing attempts against him. He is getting very few rebound attempts against him. He is seeing a lower-than-average number of dangerous scoring chances against him. I'm by no means saying I like the play of our defence, but the numbers point to a lot of this being Carey's fault.

 

 

 

Ok so if he is mid pack in rushes against that would account for higher stats. Would also like to know of the rushes he has faced how many were converted into goals cause then you could see a direct coronation between defensive break downs and goals that were just straight through carry that he had a high percentage of stopping. That would tell the true story of how Carey himself was actually performing, and how the defense was affecting his stats.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Carey has had 12 starts this season. He's posted a better than .900 save percentage in only 4 of them.

Karl Alzner has played in 5 games in which Carey played this season, and here are Carey's save percentages in those 5 games: .920, .882, 1.000, .857, and .806. two of his 3 best games by save percentage came in starts when Alzner was in the line-up. Conversely, in games without Alzner, he's also put up a few stinkers of .885, .897, .871, .889, and .844.

Jordie Benn, for his part, has played more than 20 minutes three times this season... two of those games were ones in which Niemi started and the only one in which Carey played was the 3-0 shutout win Carey posted against Boston.

Has the D talent dropped off with Alzner playing the past couple of games and Schlemko coming back and Benn playing top pair? Absolutely. The D corps is inadequate for an NHL team. But on the other hand, the centers and wingers have played pretty decent team defence this year, and we've controlled play and shot attempts in the majority of our games, which is to say, team defence by possessing the puck. Carey has been bad with Alzner and top-pairing Benn, but he's also been bad without them. Carey's also been successful playing with bad D men like Murray, Bouillon, Emelin, Gill, and so on in front of him too. So to me, this isn't just about the defence corps, it's about Carey having lost something too. Blaming the D alone is an easy way out and just because Price has been solid in the past, doesn't mean he's immune to having slumps or seeing his level of play drop off with age/injuries/external factors.

 

No one is saying that some of it isn't Carey but when the question is posed is Carey Done that insinuates that your blaming ONLY Carey which is the other extreme. 

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40 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

No one is saying that some of it isn't Carey but when the question is posed is Carey Done that insinuates that your blaming ONLY Carey which is the other extreme. 

And I voted that I did not think Carey was done, but I think he has issues he needs to sort out... he's said it himself that there are things in his head he needs to fix. Like everything in life, I don't think there's one thing to blame for Carey's poor play, but of all the factors, I think it's Carey himself and not the defence that has contributed the most...

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20 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

And I voted that I did not think Carey was done, but I think he has issues he needs to sort out... he's said it himself that there are things in his head he needs to fix. Like everything in life, I don't think there's one thing to blame for Carey's poor play, but of all the factors, I think it's Carey himself and not the defence that has contributed the most...

Probably is Carey himself doing most of the damage, everyone is always their own biggest critic. I just see a lot of people posting how the problems can all be fixed by trading Carey and how Carey is washed up and I don't agree with it and will defend my opinion LOL. I also wasn't meaning you personally when I said your blaming ONLY Carey. I really meant it as a generic term for those who believe it is ALL Carey's fault. Sorry for any misconceptions.

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9 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

No changes to his defensive pairings at practice today.:4845:

We're gonna get killed in AB, and Van. 

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11 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

No changes to his defensive pairings at practice today.:4845:

With Juulsen-Ouellet as the 4th pairing... incomprehensible how that can be.

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One thing that has always been true about Julien is that he's a methodical, 'end game' coach.  Meaning if he wants to see how David Schlemko will do - and he feels like he needs to see it for several games - he will do so, regardless of how it impacts any specific game.

He used to drive my Bruin-Fan-Friends (Hey, you cant pick who your friends like) mad because they would go on extended losing streaks while Julien would work on very specific things. But once it was all figured out they would win and win and win.  So lets hope that this is what is happening now. We are working on very specific things and one day everyhing will come together... although i must say right now it looks like we've regressed from our play (and our roster choices) in October. A lot. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

One thing that has always been true about Julien is that he's a methodical, 'end game' coach.  Meaning if he wants to see how David Schlemko will do - and he feels like he needs to see it for several games - he will do so, regardless of how it impacts any specific game.

He used to drive my Bruin-Fan-Friends (Hey, you cant pick who your friends like) mad because they would go on extended losing streaks while Julien would work on very specific things. But once it was all figured out they would win and win and win.  So lets hope that this is what is happening now. We are working on very specific things and one day everyhing will come together... although i must say right now it looks like we've regressed from our play (and our roster choices) in October. A lot. 

So,,,, one day our PP will be God like?:ph34r:

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14 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

So,,,, one day our PP will be God like?:ph34r:

No. Just incrementally better than it currently is! So, not terrible. :lol:

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38 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

So,,,, one day our PP will be God like?:ph34r:

Haha. I have no idea.  RIght now its abysmal. Id rather decline the PP to be honest.  

I think Muller is controlling that though, no?  

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Dumb move playing Price in the 3rd, on his rest night, in a game that was obviously lost. 

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I still do not see Julien as being the right coach for this team. Sure there doe seem to be a plus sometime... but overall, player selection still leans towards older players being given a pass on poor play while some younger players aren't given the same opportunities. It is sad when he states inconsistency as a reason for scratching certain players while ignoring that in others, mostly on defense but also in regards to some forwards. At times deployment is questionable too.

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2 hours ago, Habs_Hockey_Nutz said:

I still do not see Julien as being the right coach for this team. Sure there doe seem to be a plus sometime... but overall, player selection still leans towards older players being given a pass on poor play while some younger players aren't given the same opportunities. It is sad when he states inconsistency as a reason for scratching certain players while ignoring that in others, mostly on defense but also in regards to some forwards. At times deployment is questionable too.

The thing is, all coaches have their pros and cons.  Babcock does the same at times as do other top ranked coaches.

I think the problem is because of our self-imposed "must speak french" mandate, our pickin's are slim.  I have no problem with replacing Julien but it needs to be done with a coach who is better than him, not just different.


Now, if we were to explore the possibility of the newly unemployed Joel Quenneville (who does speak french, btw) I would definitely be open to it. 

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44 minutes ago, maas_art said:

The thing is, all coaches have their pros and cons.  Babcock does the same at times as do other top ranked coaches.

I think the problem is because of our self-imposed "must speak french" mandate, our pickin's are slim.  I have no problem with replacing Julien but it needs to be done with a coach who is better than him, not just different.


Now, if we were to explore the possibility of the newly unemployed Joel Quenneville (who does speak french, btw) I would definitely be open to it. 

It's the old saying "be careful what you wish for".

Now do I think Julien is the best coach in the NHL?  No.   But he's not the worst either.     The problem is that the Canadiens have an obstinate habit of replacing our coaches with franchophone coaches.    There's currently no proven coaches available that fit that category.   Sure, Queneville speaks french but he's not francophone and I think he's mired in the past just as much as Julien.

 

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31 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

It's the old saying "be careful what you wish for".

Now do I think Julien is the best coach in the NHL?  No.   But he's not the worst either.     The problem is that the Canadiens have an obstinate habit of replacing our coaches with franchophone coaches.    There's currently no proven coaches available that fit that category.   Sure, Queneville speaks french but he's not francophone and I think he's mired in the past just as much as Julien.

 

I agree.  Back when we were under Therrible rule i had zero problem replacing him with.. anyone. But i think Julien is still a good coach.  I am not sure if he can adapt to today's game fully but good coaches find a way to make the game adapt to them so Im not sure id be pushing for a replacement right now. 

I think Quenneville is probably still a step up on Julien (but not by much and probably not enough to get rid of him for) but I agree, they are both older style coaches.  I do think management would overlook the not-francophone thing as long as the coach spoke decent French, but i could be wrong. 

 

 

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Is it fair to blame him for losing winnable games?

He's trying to build a 2011 team in 2019.  His fetish for the 4th line, Deslaurier, choice of PP personnel and defensive OT mentality.  

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49 minutes ago, PuckPundit said:

Is it fair to blame him for losing winnable games?

He's trying to build a 2011 team in 2019.  His fetish for the 4th line, Deslaurier, choice of PP personnel and defensive OT mentality.  

He's done a lot of good things since taking over here. But he has two flaws here, which I mentioned during the GDT tonight:

1. His PP is crap.

2. He continues to employ goons in his bottom 6. We've had King-Ott-Martinsen and not only that, we had those players playing ahead of Galchenyuk! We've had Deslauriers now for two years and even when all the other 4th liners get rotated and traded, there he is as a constant in the line-up despite being one of the worst players in the league. Now we have Weise and Thompson, and that line has been utterly dominated by the other teams' 4th lines in two straight games. We've seen less talented players like Flynn and Froese and DLR and we've had bad defencemen like Schlemko and Alzner and so on too. Some of that seems to have changed with the new coaches this year forcing out some of the rubbish, but here we are again for the umpteenth time having to argue about why Hudon or another skill player should be in over a goon. Like I said in the GDT, I'd venture the 4th line has cost us 4-5 wins this season and hasn't really won much for us. That's 8-10 points in the standings, which is a huge difference.

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