H_T_L

TRADE DEADLINE FEB. 25th

431 posts in this topic

45 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Interesting thing about Fowler is this is not the first time trade rumors surround him.   definitely a valuable asset , but I'm not convinced the Ducks even consider trading him  for what we can possibly offer that won't break our roster in other ways.

Our top 9 is pretty much set ... with Shaw being the only guy I see as expendable.   Wonder if they'd bite on Fowler for Shaw, Alzner, Hudon and a pick.  That gives them a top 9 forward in Shaw, another possible top 9 forward in Hudon, offset the contract a bit with Alzner and a pick they can get a prospect for.

If MB did manage to pull that off .. in 2-3 years our D would look like 

Fowler - Weber

Romanov - Petry

Mete - Brook 

(providing those two pan out as expected) .. that could be one of the better D corps in the league.

Another player to dangle might be Poehling ... who's trade value right now is high.   Danault is playing great and is objectively our shutdown C ... if you think Poehling will be about the same as Danult, then your 3Cs are Domi, Kotkaniemi, Danault/Poehling ... so dealing Poehling for a 1D signed for the next 7 years who's considered one of the top D in the league might make sense.

I cant see them taking Alzner's contract.  I think maybe you entice them with  Shaw + Hudon + Pick + Benn or Kula or Reilly

I dont think id consider trading Poehling.  I would normally not even consider trading our 1st this year but Fowler is a first pairing LD and he's young enough to be useful for quite some time still. I do understand why that might be appealing though.  Especially if you can get Fowler nearly straight up for Poehling.  We keep our 1st and we still have other young centres (JK, Suzuki, Domi, Danault) left. 

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

I see Beaulieu has requested a trade. :ph34r:

Id happily take Beaulieu back...

 

 

... for Karl Alzner. :)  Actually id probably take him back for Schlemko tbh. At least Beau is useable as a bottom pair guy.

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Too bad we weren't in on Niederreiter, really thought he could have been an interesting add to our team. Big guy with skill.

Reading comments on Minny sites, the fans and media seem to be disappointed in the trade (as they should be) and there are some thoughts that with Rask being a center, Coyle might be asked to move back to the wing despite the fact he's been playing well down the middle, Some think this move from Minny was purely to save a bit of cap space, with a plan to trade one of Staal or Coyle for another piece. I know we've been linked to Coyle before, so wonder if we are involved in any talks with Minny here.

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5 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Interesting thing about Fowler is this is not the first time trade rumors surround him.   definitely a valuable asset , but I'm not convinced the Ducks even consider trading him  for what we can possibly offer that won't break our roster in other ways.

Our top 9 is pretty much set ... with Shaw being the only guy I see as expendable.   Wonder if they'd bite on Fowler for Shaw, Alzner, Hudon and a pick.  That gives them a top 9 forward in Shaw, another possible top 9 forward in Hudon, offset the contract a bit with Alzner and a pick they can get a prospect for.

If MB did manage to pull that off .. in 2-3 years our D would look like 

Fowler - Weber

Romanov - Petry

Mete - Brook 

(providing those two pan out as expected) .. that could be one of the better D corps in the league.

Another player to dangle might be Poehling ... who's trade value right now is high.   Danault is playing great and is objectively our shutdown C ... if you think Poehling will be about the same as Danult, then your 3Cs are Domi, Kotkaniemi, Danault/Poehling ... so dealing Poehling for a 1D signed for the next 7 years who's considered one of the top D in the league might make sense.

I'd give up Suzuki way before Poehling, especially after the world juniors. Poehling was a beast and Suzuki was okay. Poehling is a true center with skill and size and similar things were said about JK that he was more if a defensive center when he was drafted. I think Poehling will have as much or more offensive upside than Suzuki (who may end up as a wing) Fowler definitely would be what we're looking for skill while and age. Our first and Shaw/Lehkenon  and Hudon . I'd be willing to do or Shaw/Lehkenon and Suzuki maybe being that they're in the Western Conference.

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Just now, CaptWelly said:

I'd give up Suzuki way before Poehling, especially after the world juniors. Poehling was a beast and Suzuki was okay. Poehling is a true center with skill and size and similar things were said about JK that he was more if a defensive center when he was drafted. I think Poehling will have as much or more offensive upside than Suzuki (who may end up as a wing) Fowler definitely would be what we're looking for skill while and age. Our first and Shaw/Lehkenon  and Hudon . I'd be willing to do or Shaw/Lehkenon and Suzuki maybe being that they're in the Western Conference.

Except ...

Suzuki is touted as an offensive player who was mis-used/underplayed at the WJ.   Poehling has always been touted as a 2way center.     Suzuki has far more offensive upside than Poehling, Poehling has far more utility upside than Suzuki ... so given our roster and that Poehling is riding a high after the WJC ... Fowler for Poehling and other stuff might actually entice the Ducks.   Given we have 3 good C's (Domi, JK and Danault) that are all young ... it makes more sense to keep Suzuki who's projecting as an offensive winger.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Too bad we weren't in on Niederreiter, really thought he could have been an interesting add to our team. Big guy with skill.

Reading comments on Minny sites, the fans and media seem to be disappointed in the trade (as they should be) and there are some thoughts that with Rask being a center, Coyle might be asked to move back to the wing despite the fact he's been playing well down the middle, Some think this move from Minny was purely to save a bit of cap space, with a plan to trade one of Staal or Coyle for another piece. I know we've been linked to Coyle before, so wonder if we are involved in any talks with Minny here.

He's essentially Tatar.    We really don' need more wingers.

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Hmmm actually more on Fowler

Pretty interesting, they just acquired Del Zotto, giving them 4 LD

Lindholm, Fowler, Jacob Larsson and Del Zotto ... Larsson is a first rounder pick from 2015 with a lot of offensive upside apparently.    Almost hints at a trade coming ... Fowler may actually be available.

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Well apparently LA is asking a 1st rounder and a prospect for muzzin so god knows what anaheim wants 

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17 minutes ago, jeff33 said:

Well apparently LA is asking a 1st rounder and a prospect for muzzin so god knows what anaheim wants 

The main reason to stay away from Muzzin. Would he be fine to have on the team if we didn't have to give anything up to get him? Yeah. He's on a reasonable contract, he's not quite 30, so yeah. But he's a 2nd-pairing D man whose benefited from playing with Doughty (57% Corsi with him over the past three years and 52% without him on a good Corsi team). I worry that if we acquire him, we're going to see a bit of the Komisarek-without-Markov phenomenon. Muzzin is definitely better than a lot of what we currently have on the left side, but is he worth more than a 3rd round pick (or late 2nd rounder) and a Charles Hudon or Jake Evans type player to me? Nope. There are very few players in the league that I'd give up a 1st rounder for any more. With the cap, young top-tier talent that you can control on entry-level contracts is key to building your roster.

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2 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

Except ...

Suzuki is touted as an offensive player who was mis-used/underplayed at the WJ.   Poehling has always been touted as a 2way center.     Suzuki has far more offensive upside than Poehling, Poehling has far more utility upside than Suzuki ... so given our roster and that Poehling is riding a high after the WJC ... Fowler for Poehling and other stuff might actually entice the Ducks.   Given we have 3 good C's (Domi, JK and Danault) that are all young ... it makes more sense to keep Suzuki who's projecting as an offensive winger.

It's always better to have more true centers even if you play one at wing. You can have 4 lines of good centers not just 3 and a 4th line grinder center. Driasital plays wing a lot with Mc David but can be used as a center any time. It's always much easier to have a center play wing than the other way around and be deep at center. Domi,JK,Danuault, Poehling looks very good also and gives you strength where you need it most. I also think Poehling will be ready sooner than Suzuki myself. Playing in the NCAA he is already playing against men not kids. I would much rather give up this years first pick though before either of these because they both show strong potential and just because it's a first round pick doesn't mean it's going to work out. 

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No thanks to Muzzin, he's a fine Dman and comes with a reasonable Cap hit but given the asking price, it's not really what we need.

Fowler is very intriguing and his name came up before. I'd love to add him but it certainly won't be cheap. There's no reason for the Ducks to trade him for spare parts plus he has a NTC I believe, so I don't think it'll work out.

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1 hour ago, ChiLla said:

No thanks to Muzzin, he's a fine Dman and comes with a reasonable Cap hit but given the asking price, it's not really what we need.

Fowler is very intriguing and his name came up before. I'd love to add him but it certainly won't be cheap. There's no reason for the Ducks to trade him for spare parts plus he has a NTC I believe, so I don't think it'll work out.

The Ducks don't need to move him but they also have 4 LD and 4 RD, one would assume that they would be more willing to give up a left D than a right cause right are more coveted but who knows. Also the oldest LD they have is Del Zotto at 28 who they just acquired from the Canucks so doubt they brought him in just to trade. The rest of the left side is Fowler (27), Lindholm (24) and Larsson (21) it is widely known that Lindholm is pretty well untouchable and Larsson wouldn't bring in a young middle 6 forward and prospects to bolster their core which they require desperately, so that leaves Fowler as the odd man out. I like the offer of Hudon, Benn, Evans and a first for Fowler as I think it gives the Ducks everything they are seeking while still remaining fair value for us.

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2 hours ago, ChiLla said:

No thanks to Muzzin, he's a fine Dman and comes with a reasonable Cap hit but given the asking price, it's not really what we need.

Fowler is very intriguing and his name came up before. I'd love to add him but it certainly won't be cheap. There's no reason for the Ducks to trade him for spare parts plus he has a NTC I believe, so I don't think it'll work out.

According to Capfriendly, he has a modified NTC. He can submit a four team trade list. So... would he accept a trade to Montreal? Who knows? Maybe. Maybe not.

I wonder if a 2nd round draft choice (Columbus's pick) and Nick Suzuki would be enough to get it done? Maybe toss in another B-level prospect as incentive. It would hurt to sacrifice Suzuki after just acquiring him, but... you have to give value to get value.

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40 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

The Ducks don't need to move him but they also have 4 LD and 4 RD, one would assume that they would be more willing to give up a left D than a right cause right are more coveted but who knows. Also the oldest LD they have is Del Zotto at 28 who they just acquired from the Canucks so doubt they brought him in just to trade. The rest of the left side is Fowler (27), Lindholm (24) and Larsson (21) it is widely known that Lindholm is pretty well untouchable and Larsson wouldn't bring in a young middle 6 forward and prospects to bolster their core which they require desperately, so that leaves Fowler as the odd man out. I like the offer of Hudon, Benn, Evans and a first for Fowler as I think it gives the Ducks everything they are seeking while still remaining fair value for us.

The offer could be a starting point but I think the Ducks can do better on the open market. Despite his recent play, I don't think that Benn has much value. I like Evans and he seems to be doing ok in the AHL, yet he's completely unproven at the NHL level. Hudon seems to have taken a step back this season, so I'm not sure the Ducks will be interested. Our first-rounder has value but that's really it, the three other pieces are mediocre/unproven, so I'd expect Anaheim to want more.

36 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

According to Capfriendly, he has a modified NTC. He can submit a four team trade list. So... would he accept a trade to Montreal? Who knows? Maybe. Maybe not.

I wonder if a 2nd round draft choice (Columbus's pick) and Nick Suzuki would be enough to get it done? Maybe toss in another B-level prospect as incentive. It would hurt to sacrifice Suzuki after just acquiring him, but... you have to give value to get value.

Yeah, Suzuki+ looks more like what they'd want in return. Tough call, we definitely need a top four guy to play with Weber and I can imagine Fowler being a great addition in that regard. I'm not sure I'd be willing to part ways with Suzuki though.

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59 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

The offer could be a starting point but I think the Ducks can do better on the open market. Despite his recent play, I don't think that Benn has much value. I like Evans and he seems to be doing ok in the AHL, yet he's completely unproven at the NHL level. Hudon seems to have taken a step back this season, so I'm not sure the Ducks will be interested. Our first-rounder has value but that's really it, the three other pieces are mediocre/unproven, so I'd expect Anaheim to want more.

Yeah, Suzuki+ looks more like what they'd want in return. Tough call, we definitely need a top four guy to play with Weber and I can imagine Fowler being a great addition in that regard. I'm not sure I'd be willing to part ways with Suzuki though.

Fair enough assessment, as for Suzuki I agree he would be a great winger as that's most likely where we would be playing him cause we have JK, Domi, Danault and Poehling ahead of him. even as a winger he would be a great add but we do have a plethora of wingers that are or have potential to be great like Ylonen and Ikonen so moving Suzuki could be less of an impact to our roster. However maybe we consider one of Ylonen or Ikonen instead of Suzuki.

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In typical Bergevin fashion, I predict he'll do nothing as usual. :4224:

Actually doing nothing is safer than pulling dumb trades. Anyone still remembers trading for 'The Three Amigos' prior to the 2017 playoffs?

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On 1/18/2019 at 7:22 PM, Born-To-Be-A-Hab said:

Victor Mete ,Karl Alzner,Ylonen or Ikonen,and  for Cam Frowler .

Ylonen is one of the future pieces MB is most likely looking to build around.  He was Kotkaniemi's line-mate at the 2018 WJC.  I think he was drafted as a winger of the future for JK.  I also see him as a dark horse to make the club in 2019.  His game is in between the face-off dots in the offensive zone burying home a one timer.  He could potentially be the benefactor of JK's play making ability.  I imagine Bergevin is looking to stock pile Laval with the treasure trove from the past 2 drafts.  Give a good player developer like Bouchard a potential line up next year of:

Poehling, Suzuki, Ylonen

Audette, Evans, McCarron

Olofsson, Vjedemo, Grenier

Ikonen, Alain, Jepalovs

Romanov, Fleury

Tyszka, Brook

Walford, Lernout

McNiven

Primeau

Giving Bouchard 2 years with this group of prospects could make The Rocket instant Calder Cup contenders.  The fatal flaw with the first generation of Marc Bergevin prospects was they were never first taught how to win at the AHL level.  They were subjected to Sylvain Lefebvre's incompetence and lack of a game plan. If these kids can first win down in Laval, they come up to the big club better prepared to win when called up.  There is an expansion draft coming up in 2 years, so having as many of these prospects developing in Laval for those 2 years will make it easier to fill roster spots post expansion draft.  It may be in Bergevin's best interest to stand pat at the deadline.

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3 hours ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Give a good player developer like Bouchard a potential line up next year of:

 

Romanov, Fleury

I dont disagree with most of what you're saying but the chances of Romanov in the NHL next year are about 5% and the chances of him in the AHL are basically nill.  He aint coming over until he has an NHL contract and even that may be a couple of years away since there's no KHL/NHL agreement. 

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8 hours ago, maas_art said:

laI dont disagree with most of what you're saying but the chances of Romanov in the NHL next year are about 5% and the chances of him in the AHL are basically nill.  He aint coming over until he has an NHL contract and even that may be a couple of years away since there's no KHL/NHL agreement. 

You're more than likely right on Romanov, and for that matter, Olofsson and Ikonen may stay over seas too.  I was trying to demonstrate the importance of patience with these prospects to Born-to-be.  Now that we have a better plan in place on the farm than SL's "Sink or Swim" plan, we could actually win down on the farm.  This was a key ingredient we've been missing with all of our previous crops of prospects.  We never had a mentor to our players who could teach our prospects how to win at the pro level.  You need to win at the AHL level in order to have any degree of success at the NHL level.  Even without Romanov, you're looking at a potential top 4 on the blueline of: Josh Brook, Jarrett Tyszka, Scott Walford, Cale Fleury.  That's pretty much a Team Canada/World Junior top 4 at the AHL level.  IF you let these four get top 4 minutes in Laval for 2 years, you not only have a shot at a Calder Cup, you are better prepared for expansion draft.  Unless Rob Blake is willing to accept: Hudon and/or McCarron and a 1st for Muzzin, I'd much rather let Mete be the speedier Yin to Weber grizzled veteran Yang.

 

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6 hours ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

You're more than likely right on Romanov, and for that matter, Olofsson and Ikonen may stay over seas too.  I was trying to demonstrate the importance of patience with these prospects to Born-to-be.  Now that we have a better plan in place on the farm than SL's "Sink or Swim" plan, we could actually win down on the farm.  This was a key ingredient we've been missing with all of our previous crops of prospects.  We never had a mentor to our players who could teach our prospects how to win at the pro level.  You need to win at the AHL level in order to have any degree of success at the NHL level.  Even without Romanov, you're looking at a potential top 4 on the blueline of: Josh Brook, Jarrett Tyszka, Scott Walford, Cale Fleury.  That's pretty much a Team Canada/World Junior top 4 at the AHL level.  IF you let these four get top 4 minutes in Laval for 2 years, you not only have a shot at a Calder Cup, you are better prepared for expansion draft.  Unless Rob Blake is willing to accept: Hudon and/or McCarron and a 1st for Muzzin, I'd much rather let Mete be the speedier Yin to Weber grizzled veteran Yang.

 

Yeah totally agree with the sentiment and its why Im in full favour of trading one of Weber or Petry (even though it will hurt us right now) and why I dont want to go out and get a Muzzin because the price will likely be costly in the form of young player(s) picks.  

In other words, move older players (especially those over 30 who likely wont be around - or at peak skill level - for the actual contending years) and continue to bring in young players and picks. 

My worry s that MB will think we are peaking before we actually are (like he did at the time of the Subban Trade) and he will "go all in" before we are truly ready.  Hopefully he learned from his past mistakes & that is not the case. 

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On 1/20/2019 at 3:48 PM, maas_art said:

Yeah totally agree with the sentiment and its why Im in full favour of trading one of Weber or Petry (even though it will hurt us right now) and why I dont want to go out and get a Muzzin because the price will likely be costly in the form of young player(s) picks.  

In other words, move older players (especially those over 30 who likely wont be around - or at peak skill level - for the actual contending years) and continue to bring in young players and picks. 

My worry s that MB will think we are peaking before we actually are (like he did at the time of the Subban Trade) and he will "go all in" before we are truly ready.  Hopefully he learned from his past mistakes & that is not the case. 

I would love to see Weber traded to TOR for Kapanen and a 1st.  We most likely will NOT see that happen.  I'd also be willing to at least see if EDM would do Gallagher and Hudon for JP and a 1st.  Again, this most likely won't happen because MB has built his roster around the Lunch pail, blue collar mentality of a Brendan Gallagher and Shea Weber.  Ultimately, I think MTL should package Niemi, Benn and Agostino to a team tight against the cap who needs depth for a playoff run (Washington)  for say Andre Burakovsky.

 

 

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I have a feeling Bergevin will do nothing before the deadline. Which is wise, IMO. We don't need to trade any spare parts away and we don't need to pick any up. Let's just continue on with the season and see where the current crop of players get us.

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I see the logic in trading older players but I don't know, I don't think they will be done when we could conceivably challenge for a cup. I'd like to sell but a more minor move. My priority would be to move Shaw. I love Shaw but I can see him taking a real nose dive AND if he comes back and plays like he was before, I think we could get the equivalent of a couple of second round picks for him. He's exactly the type of player teams look for when they are on a playoff run. 

Guys like Gallagher and especially Weber will be way too hard to replace. We have a better chance of Weber still being a #1 D man then actually finding a #1 D man in 3 to 5 years. I don't want to lose him unless it's an embarrassment of riches in return

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I see the logic in trading older players but I don't know, I don't think they will be done when we could conceivably challenge for a cup. I'd like to sell but a more minor move. My priority would be to move Shaw. I love Shaw but I can see him taking a real nose dive AND if he comes back and plays like he was before, I think we could get the equivalent of a couple of second round picks for him. He's exactly the type of player teams look for when they are on a playoff run. 

Guys like Gallagher and especially Weber will be way too hard to replace. We have a better chance of Weber still being a #1 D man then actually finding a #1 D man in 3 to 5 years. I don't want to lose him unless it's an embarrassment of riches in return

Moving Shaw would be quite interesting. He's a good player. He struggles with injuries. I think it's safe to assume to the most recent injury is another concussion. Bergevin also isn't the best manager at selling players at peak value. If Shaw did return, have a great 15 games, and see his value rise... Well, I'm doubtful Bergevin would even consider moving him then.

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