kinot-2

Rumours

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11 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

TVA Sports has brought up another name who plays for the Toronto Maple Leafs' that makes a lot more sense. 

The people at TVA Sports in Montreal think that Canadiens' general manager Marc Bergevin might try and get Kasperi Kapanen to sign one. 

Kapanen wouldn't cost anything close to what Marner would cost and the Canadiens could offer somewhere between $4.23-$6.63million a season which would only cost the Canadiens a first and a third round pick in compensation. 
The Leafs' 22 year old forward registered 20 goals and 24 assists this year but was a little quiet in the playoffs with only two points in seven games. 

with the cap trouble the leafs are in, if you wanted KK i think you just offer a trade for him, no need to go offer sheet route. 

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23 minutes ago, maas_art said:

with the cap trouble the leafs are in, if you wanted KK i think you just offer a trade for him, no need to go offer sheet route. 

I would also say 4-6 Million a year for someone who only scored 20 goals & 44 pt.s total. I think we'd end up with a lot of current personnel looking for raises.

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22 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Habs still have a couple of unsigned prospects from 2 years ago. Apparently defenceman Scott Walford recently removed the "Habs prospect" title from his social media accounts, suggesting he's been told by the team he won't be signed before this summer's deadline.

That could just as easily suggest he's becoming a pro signing his first contract.  It doesn't mean he's been cut by the team.

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5 hours ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

That could just as easily suggest he's becoming a pro signing his first contract.  It doesn't mean he's been cut by the team.

But if that's the case, why not just wait until you sign the contract and then switch it to "Montreal Canadiens" or something like that... it's a rumor at this point, hence being in the rumors thread, but I'd agree with the reports that it's more likely he's just not signing than any other reason for the switch.

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Leafs are in full cap-clearance mode. They're desperately trying to make room to fend off offersheets on Marner and Kapanen and so on...

- multiple sources have announced the Leafs are looking to deal Zaitsev but that there aren't many takers for his contract

- today, Lebrun reporting that Toronto is trying to swap Marleau to LA

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- Dave Pagnotta of thefourthperiod reporting that multiple sources close to Laine have indicated he is willing to sign an offer sheet. Hard to remember a year where there has been so much talk about RFA's signing hostile offers. Makes you wonder if it will actually happen...

- Bob McKenzie reporting that the Flames want to move one of TJ Brodie or Travis Hamonic. They feel their youngsters can take over, and both players are 28 and set to be UFA's after next season. Hamonic is a righty but Brodie is a lefty, which could fit a need for MB.

- Report from Helene Elliot in LA that the Kings are out on Marleau for the asking price. Also reports the Coyotes and Leafs have talked Marleau but that Arizona sees him as a negative asset and wants a key piece included with Marleau in any trade in exchange for taking him on. Sounds like Toronto is not going to be able to just dump Marleau for free.

- LA rumored to be looking to buy out Dion Phaneuf. They can't demote him to the minors because he has a NMC, but they could buy him out, as there don't appear to be any trade partners.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

- Bob McKenzie reporting that the Flames want to move one of TJ Brodie or Travis Hamonic. They feel their youngsters can take over, and both players are 28 and set to be UFA's after next season. Hamonic is a righty but Brodie is a lefty, which could fit a need for MB.

Ive heard a few people talk about Brodie but one thing to keep in mind is that he shoots left but he much prefers playing right. he's also generally more effective there.  so while you could acquire him & play him at LD Im not sure if its the right call. 

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54 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Ive heard a few people talk about Brodie but one thing to keep in mind is that he shoots left but he much prefers playing right. he's also generally more effective there.  so while you could acquire him & play him at LD Im not sure if its the right call. 

I would do it. He only has one year remaining on his deal. If its a reasonable trade, then I'd go for it. Certainly not trading a first for him! But maybe a second? or a third and b prospect? I'd give it a chance

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1 hour ago, habsisme said:

I would do it. He only has one year remaining on his deal. If its a reasonable trade, then I'd go for it. Certainly not trading a first for him! But maybe a second? or a third and b prospect? I'd give it a chance

If your going to play a guy more comfortable on RD as a LD then you may as well just go after Trouba, Karlsson, Hamilton or Subban. We need a LHD that prefers and play better on the left side

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39 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

If your going to play a guy more comfortable on RD as a LD then you may as well just go after Trouba, Karlsson, Hamilton or Subban. We need a LHD that prefers and play better on the left side

yes but he actually does shoot left, the players you mention shoot right

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

Ive heard a few people talk about Brodie but one thing to keep in mind is that he shoots left but he much prefers playing right. he's also generally more effective there.  so while you could acquire him & play him at LD Im not sure if its the right call. 

Agreed. That said, he did play the left side for parts of his career, so it's not out of the question. There are probably better options, but it's still something MB could/should look into...

McKenzie also reiterating Gostisbehere available for the right price AND that Philly open to listening to offers for #11 (albeit what GM shouldn't at least be listening to offers...).

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13 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Agreed. That said, he did play the left side for parts of his career, so it's not out of the question. There are probably better options, but it's still something MB could/should look into...

McKenzie also reiterating Gostisbehere available for the right price AND that Philly open to listening to offers for #11 (albeit what GM shouldn't at least be listening to offers...).

I would be all over Gost, i wonder what the price is though. Hard to judge when you don't know what they are asking for

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6 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

- Dave Pagnotta of thefourthperiod reporting that multiple sources close to Laine have indicated he is willing to sign an offer sheet. Hard to remember a year where there has been so much talk about RFA's signing hostile offers. Makes you wonder if it will actually happen...

 

I'd say it's a bargaining ploy but either way he's gonna get paid.

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9 hours ago, habsisme said:

I would be all over Gost, i wonder what the price is though. Hard to judge when you don't know what they are asking for

Ditto. Good fit for us. Maybe the best fit of any available LHD (that we know about). I've heard Philly wants another D man back but may be more in search of a veteran who still has a few years left on his contract... not sure we can make that work, but who knows... maybe they have other needs too. I think they want to be competitive this year, I don't think they're looking for futures as much.

9 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I'd say it's a bargaining ploy but either way he's gonna get paid.

Yup. But I also don't think Laine is super-attached to Winnipeg. The hiatus of talent is starting there a bit, as they can't afford to keep all the young guys they drafted who now need big contacts. Trouba is expected to be dealt, Myers is leaving in all likelihood via free agency, Ehlers has rumored to be on the block too maybe. If someone offers Laine 10M a year and Winnipeg only offers him 6-7M, I think he would leave. Not to say we should do that, but I think he's willing to jump ship if Winnipeg doesn't pay him at least close to the range that Matthews, Marner, etc. are going to be earning. I don't think Laine expects 10-12M, but I don't think he'll be satisfied with 6M either.

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Ditto. Good fit for us. Maybe the best fit of any available LHD (that we know about). I've heard Philly wants another D man back but may be more in search of a veteran who still has a few years left on his contract... not sure we can make that work, but who knows... maybe they have other needs too. I think they want to be competitive this year, I don't think they're looking for futures as much.

The other thing about getting a guy like Ghost is that Im almost certain its going to have a big effect on Weber.  Whats done is done & lets face it, there's probably 0.0% chance MB trades Weber so the smart thing would be to try to get him the best compliment for his game. A guy like Mete is fine & they form a decent pairing but if you bring in someone like Gostisbehere I think Weber's game immediately gets better.  You'd also be adding a terrific PP quarterback. 

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5 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Ditto. Good fit for us. Maybe the best fit of any available LHD (that we know about). I've heard Philly wants another D man back but may be more in search of a veteran who still has a few years left on his contract... not sure we can make that work, but who knows... maybe they have other needs too. I think they want to be competitive this year, I don't think they're looking for futures as much.

Yup. But I also don't think Laine is super-attached to Winnipeg. The hiatus of talent is starting there a bit, as they can't afford to keep all the young guys they drafted who now need big contacts. Trouba is expected to be dealt, Myers is leaving in all likelihood via free agency, Ehlers has rumored to be on the block too maybe. If someone offers Laine 10M a year and Winnipeg only offers him 6-7M, I think he would leave. Not to say we should do that, but I think he's willing to jump ship if Winnipeg doesn't pay him at least close to the range that Matthews, Marner, etc. are going to be earning. I don't think Laine expects 10-12M, but I don't think he'll be satisfied with 6M either.

I presonally would love us to try and sign Laine ... he's got Teemu Selanne written all over him AND he's fit well with Kotkaniemi

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Would love to see MB toss an offer sheet at Marner, lose potentially 4 mid round first round picks for him, be done in a heart beat.  Truly believe the kid has the talent to build a team around.  And the picks that would be given up should be 20th or later in the first round. 

 

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

The other thing about getting a guy like Ghost is that Im almost certain its going to have a big effect on Weber.  Whats done is done & lets face it, there's probably 0.0% chance MB trades Weber so the smart thing would be to try to get him the best compliment for his game. A guy like Mete is fine & they form a decent pairing but if you bring in someone like Gostisbehere I think Weber's game immediately gets better.  You'd also be adding a terrific PP quarterback. 

A D corps of

Gostisbehere-Weber

Mete-Petry

Kulak-Juulsen

Reilly

would be solid. No complaints from me there.

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9 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

A D corps of

Gostisbehere-Weber

Mete-Petry

Kulak-Juulsen

Reilly

would be solid. No complaints from me there.

me too! with roughly the same forward group we already have we would be much better just with the addition at D. if we could tweak our forwards just a bit i think we could have a few very good years.

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3 hours ago, HabsAlways said:

I presonally would love us to try and sign Laine ... he's got Teemu Selanne written all over him AND he's fit well with Kotkaniemi

I wouldn't be against it. Laine has gotten a lot less press about an offersheet than Marner or Point, but he might make more sense given he possibly falls into a lower price bracket. It's probably that it takes 11-12M a season to get Marner out of Toronto. I think Laine could probably be had for 9-10M, which makes a huge difference in the compensation. Whereas it's 4 1st rounders to get Marner, it would be two 1st's, a 2nd, and a 3rd to get Laine... thought another way, would you deal Marner, a 2nd, and a 3rd for Laine and two 1st rounders? I'd rather have Laine on a slightly cheaper deal and the two better draft picks. No doubt Marner is the better player now, but Laine's got a ton of potential and is probably a better pure scorer, which is what we're missing up front. He just has to sort out his consistency a little bit...

 

16 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

Would love to see MB toss an offer sheet at Marner, lose potentially 4 mid round first round picks for him, be done in a heart beat.  Truly believe the kid has the talent to build a team around.  And the picks that would be given up should be 20th or later in the first round. 

 

I don't think you can just say all those picks will be 20th or later. The picks would apply to the 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023 drafts. Remember that after the 2020-21 season, Gallagher, Tatar, Danault, and Petry are all UFA's. There's zero chance all of them are still here for the last two years of the four I listed above. Weber could still be here if he doesn't retire, but he'll be 37 in 2022-23. Price will be 35. We will have lost at least one more player to an expansion draft. Poehling, Kotkaniemi, Mete, Juulsen, and Domi would all be on richer contracts if they succeed and we choose to keep them here. There is no telling what injuries might hit.

Bottom line is that there is no one today who can predict what the standings will look like for the next 4 years. Let's flashback 4 seasons ago to the 2014-15 year... who were the division winners that season? The Habs. The Rangers. The Blues. And the Ducks. Not one of those teams made the playoffs in all 4 of the subsequent seasons. Right now, we have a league where young players can come in and dominate and completely turn the standings upside down. We have a league with parity that's higher than it's ever been, largely because of the cap and revenue sharing. As good as a team can be on paper and as promising as some of our young guys are, guaranteeing you won't have a lottery pick for the next 4 years is near impossible. So I think if you're signing a guy for four firsts, you have to be prepared for the possibility at least one of those could be a lottery pick. And you have to be prepared to know that your development and competitive edge for the 3-4 years after you go through your first-round drought is going to be a big issue. In a cap world, you really stack the odds against you to give up first rounders, especially four years in a row. I think you can only justify that for a guy who's a top 5 player in the league (give or take) and only if you think that guy pushes your team to being the #1 challenger for a Cup. You add a McDavid then maybe. You add a winger like Marner (probably the least important position in the game) and I don't see it. I'd rather keep my 4 first rounders. I'd rather use one in a trade to find the #1 LHD we've been missing. I'd consider using two for a 10M RFA signing. Four for me is virtually a non-starter.

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34 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

I wouldn't be against it. Laine has gotten a lot less press about an offersheet than Marner or Point, but he might make more sense given he possibly falls into a lower price bracket. It's probably that it takes 11-12M a season to get Marner out of Toronto. I think Laine could probably be had for 9-10M, which makes a huge difference in the compensation. Whereas it's 4 1st rounders to get Marner, it would be two 1st's, a 2nd, and a 3rd to get Laine... thought another way, would you deal Marner, a 2nd, and a 3rd for Laine and two 1st rounders? I'd rather have Laine on a slightly cheaper deal and the two better draft picks. No doubt Marner is the better player now, but Laine's got a ton of potential and is probably a better pure scorer, which is what we're missing up front. He just has to sort out his consistency a little bit...

I'm pretty sure if you offer Laine an offer sheet of $9-10 million the compensation is four first round draft choices. For purposes of an offer sheet calculation, the AAV is the total value of the contract divided by five... So, if you offered $9 million for seven years, you'd still have to sacrifice four first rounders because it would be (9 million x 7 years)/5 years.

EDIT: I just don't really feel comfortable signing Laine to an offer sheet. He's coming off a pretty poor year, production wise. I'm not prepared to sacrifice the four first rounders that would likely be required to sign him to an offer sheet.

Edited by jennifer_rocket
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18 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm pretty sure if you offer Laine an offer sheet of $9-10 million the compensation is four first round draft choices. For purposes of an offer sheet calculation, the AAV is the total value of the contract divided by five... So, if you offered $9 million for seven years, you'd still have to sacrifice four first rounders because it would be (9 million x 7 years)/5 years.

EDIT: I just don't really feel comfortable signing Laine to an offer sheet. He's coming off a pretty poor year, production wise. I'm not prepared to sacrifice the four first rounders that would likely be required to sign him to an offer sheet.

yes, any offer sheet that isn't at the highest level would have to be for 5 years. I can't foresee any other scenario

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21 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I'm pretty sure if you offer Laine an offer sheet of $9-10 million the compensation is four first round draft choices. For purposes of an offer sheet calculation, the AAV is the total value of the contract divided by five... So, if you offered $9 million for seven years, you'd still have to sacrifice four first rounders because it would be (9 million x 7 years)/5 years.

EDIT: I just don't really feel comfortable signing Laine to an offer sheet. He's coming off a pretty poor year, production wise. I'm not prepared to sacrifice the four first rounders that would likely be required to sign him to an offer sheet.

The AAV has to be under 10.56m for 2019, over that and it's 4x 1st rounders

$8,454,872 - $10,568,589

2 First Round Picks

1 Second Round Pick

1 Third Round Pick

 

So if you offer him 50m total ... your only giving up 2x1st, 1x2nd and 1x3rd

So 50m over 5. 6 or 7 years ... the smart move is 50m over 5.    Maybe gives the Jets pause to simply match when they have so many other contracts to sign.    Offering more term simply reduces the cap hit ... making it more likely that Jets match.     The key amount being 50 million regardless of term.

 

(to be precise ... 52.5 million over 5,6 or 7 years is still below the 4 first round picks threshold.)

Edited by HabsAlways
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4 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

The AAV has to be under 10.56m for 2019, over that and it's 4x 1st rounders

$8,454,872 - $10,568,589

2 First Round Picks

1 Second Round Pick

1 Third Round Pick

 

So if you offer him 50m total ... your only giving up 2x1st, 1x2nd and 1x3rd

So 50m over 5. 6 or 7 years ... the smart move is 50m over 5.    Maybe gives the Jets pause to simply match when they have so many other contracts to sign.    Offering more term simply reduces the cap hit ... making it more likely that Jets match.     The key amount being 50 million regardless of term.

 

(to be precise ... 52.5 million over 5,6 or 7 years is still below the 4 first round picks threshold.)

Maybe $50 million-ish over five years could work. Laine might be willing to accept that. As you said, it might give the Jets enough pause to consider taking the draft choices instead. However, I still feel like Laine isn't worth that. It's a gamble from us.

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4 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Maybe $50 million-ish over five years could work. Laine might be willing to accept that. As you said, it might give the Jets enough pause to consider taking the draft choices instead. However, I still feel like Laine isn't worth that. It's a gamble from us.

Rumor is Laine wants 10.    Jets are in a predicement 

Tanev, Brandon   RW, LW NHL 27
UFA
           
Lindholm, Pär   LW, C NHL 27
UFA
           
Hendricks, Matt   RW, C, LW NHL 37
UFA
           
Laine, Patrik   LW, RW NHL 21
RFA
           
Hayes, Kevin   C NHL 27
UFA
           
Copp, Andrew   C, LW NHL 24
Arbitration EligibleRFA
           
Connor, Kyle   LW NHL 22
RFA

 

Tanev, Lindolm, Hendricks and Hayes are all UFA.    Laine, Copp and Connor are RFA.        Lindolm and Hendricks are deadweight.     So Tanev, Laine, Copp and Connor need to be resigned or replaced.

Then on D

Trouba, Jacob   RD NHL 25
Arbitration EligibleRFA
           
Beaulieu, Nathan   LD NHL 26
Arbitration EligibleRFA
           
Morrow, Joe   RD NHL 26
Arbitration EligibleRFA
           
Kiselevich, Bogdan   LD NHL 29
UFA
           
Chiarot, Ben   LD NHL 28
UFA
           
Myers, Tyler   RD NHL 29
UFA
 

 

Top 3 are RFA, bottom 3 UFA.

 

Only Trouba and Myers will command money.       So for big dollars (5m+ contracts) you got Tanev, Laine, Connor, Trouba and Myers.    Taht's a significant part of their core.    They either sign them all or replace as best they can.

PROJECTED CAP SPACE Tooltip : $25,372,503

If you're now forcing them to spend 10 on Laine by matching, its even more likely you lose one of Trouba, Myers or Connor.     The gamble just isn't on The Canadiens with an offer sheet for Laine, its also on the Jets.    They have to gamble that Laine @ 10m and losing one of Trouba/Connor/Myers is better than Trouba/Connor/Myers and a replacement RW at 1/2 that pay.

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