kinot-2

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1 hour ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

My issue is the same as it is with most trade scenarios.  I would much rather be patient with the young guys we have (Seeing how we just got an elite sniper of the future potentially in Caufield)  rather than subract futures for a short term solution.

Sanheim is 23.  Ghost is 26.  Laine is 21. So I dont think any are really "short term" solutions. Certainly Sanheim or Laine would be expected to be here for some time.   

I agree our talent pool is growing by the year and many pundits ranks us at the very top of the league in terms of prospects but not all of those will work out & if it means moving some players to get a guy who is youngish and has already shown he can play in the NHL?  Id do it. 

I think you could build trades for Laine around Drouin +  and Sanheim or Ghost for Mete +    Obviously the most important thing here is "what is the +"  If its a first and a mid-tier prospect? Done.  If its a top prospect like Suzuki or Poehling or Brook? That would be tough.  But if we already have lots of great centre depth, can we not afford to move one of those guys to shore up at LD?    

Im still not convinced we have a true  #1LD in our system (I think Romanov will be very very good & there are guys like Harris or Norlinder, or Struble who may make the leap but if you have the opportunity to add someone now who's pretty much there already and is still young, i think you have to do it.  Any of our top LD prospects are still probably a couple of years away (at best) from being a top pairing guy (if they ever will be).

 

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55 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Sanheim is 23.  Ghost is 26.  Laine is 21. So I dont think any are really "short term" solutions. Certainly Sanheim or Laine would be expected to be here for some time.   

I agree our talent pool is growing by the year and many pundits ranks us at the very top of the league in terms of prospects but not all of those will work out & if it means moving some players to get a guy who is youngish and has already shown he can play in the NHL?  Id do it. 

I think you could build trades for Laine around Drouin +  and Sanheim or Ghost for Mete +    Obviously the most important thing here is "what is the +"  If its a first and a mid-tier prospect? Done.  If its a top prospect like Suzuki or Poehling or Brook? That would be tough.  But if we already have lots of great centre depth, can we not afford to move one of those guys to shore up at LD?    

Im still not convinced we have a true  #1LD in our system (I think Romanov will be very very good & there are guys like Harris or Norlinder, or Struble who may make the leap but if you have the opportunity to add someone now who's pretty much there already and is still young, i think you have to do it.  Any of our top LD prospects are still probably a couple of years away (at best) from being a top pairing guy (if they ever will be).

 

i agree with your view of the LHD  position, we have guy's but no real #1 in my opinion until we do we are not contenders. i feel any serious contender has at least three good forward lines and one great one and two solid D pairings and one that can do some shutdown work when needed. a top tier goalie and one that won't hurt the team. i really don't feel you need a star forward if you have enough really good ones and i think we are there or close to it. i have no concerns about the right side of our D for one or two more years but the left side is at least one top pairing guy short and if we don't fix it we will be stung by it again. i don't think we can afford to wait around this time we have to pay the price to get a guy and see if we can go some rounds in the spring, who knows how far we could go?

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On 7/14/2019 at 4:49 PM, HabsAlways said:

Sure, but in the last say decade ... I'd say 2/3rds of all UFA signings for all teams did NOT work out so well in hindsight.   If you look at the teams who are going deep in the playoffs lately, they've all been built through the draft and key trades here and there.    Its rare that a UFA has a major impact for their new team, there are exceptions yes, but generally you're getting somebody in the decline of their career.

Has there been a team that has built a contender primarily thru free agent additions and by that I mean at least 3 rather than 1? With the exception of the Oilers, the draft and develop model seems to be the route to success. When mgmt. starts listening to impatient fans, that seems to be the recipe for disaster such as the leafs and the rangers in previous years.

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22 minutes ago, claremont said:

Has there been a team that has built a contender primarily thru free agent additions and by that I mean at least 3 rather than 1? With the exception of the Oilers, the draft and develop model seems to be the route to success. When mgmt. starts listening to impatient fans, that seems to be the recipe for disaster such as the leafs and the rangers in previous years.

Yeah i think in almost every case UFAs are all about adding that "final piece" so if you're a top 5-8 team maybe that one guy gets you over the hump.  Similarly, if you're looking for a specific position (ie if you are the leafs & you could have added Karlsson) then it makes some sense.  But for most signings?  Not so much.  Plenty of good mid-tier signings make sense but the top guys...   i mean Duchene will likely be great for the first 2- 3 years in nashville but in the last few I think he's going to be an anchor. 
 
 

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My view on our D men in terms of what their top-end is (i.e. if everything goes as well as it could) and what their ideal spot is in the line-up...

- Weber: top-end #1 D man; most likely a #2

- Petry: top-end #1 D man; most likely a #2

- Mete: top-end #3 D man; most likely a #4

- Kulak: top-end #5 D man; most likely a #5-6

- Reilly: top-end #4 D man; most likely a #5-6

- Chiarot: top-end #5 D man; most likely a #6

- Folin: top-end #6 D man; most likely a #7-8

- Juulsen: top-end #3 D man; most likely a #5

 

... so like we said, I think we're well-stocked in terms of 3rd pairing D men. We have 5 guys who can fill that role. What we lack are players who are likely to be top 4 guys. In that respect, I count two guys who are top-pairing guys but who play on the same side of the ice and so aren't a pairing, and I count one guy (Mete) who is probably a decent 2nd-pairing guy. Juulsen and Reilly both have the potential to be 2nd pairing players IMO but the former needs more experience and the latter needs to be more consistent and defensively sound. Juulsen is also a righty, where it's crowded in the top 4 already. Then you have Kulak, who's a strong 3rd pairing guy, Chiarot who can be a good 3rd pairing guy, and Folin who is an extra and shouldn't be in the line-up on a good team. None of those guys are really ideal top 4 solutions.

If we look down the pipeline, we have prospects where it's too early to tell what their most-likely spots are but where we can hope their top end potential is high...

- Romanov: top-end #2 D man

- Brook: top-end #1 D man

- Fleury: top-end #4 D man

 

The problem is these guys are too far away to be near their top-end any time soon, with no guarantee they ever get there. So it leaves us having an adequate-to-good right side if we run Weber-Petry-Juulsen and a weak left side if we run Mete (one pairing above where he should be)-Kulak (one pairing above where he should be)-Chiarot. That said, even though it's a hard hole to fill, we're also one player away from being very good... if you add a Gostisbehere or a Werenski or a Fowler or so on, then you put Mete back on pair 2 and Kulak and Chiarot back to splitting a 3rd-pairing spot, and all is perfect. Up to MB to turn a weakness into a strength... it's funny, because this team is probably as good or slightly better than last year's team but there haven't been many changes, whereas most of our closest competitors have made strong moves to upgrade... the Devils, the Rangers, the Panthers, the Flyers, the Canes, and so on. Vegas odds just came out yesterday, and they have the Habs at 12th-best odds to win the East. Only Ott, Det, Clb, and Bu sit behind us. So the oddsmakers don't think much of our off-season, primarily IMO because we have a gaping hole at left D that we haven't addressed. Do that, and I think you'd see our odds jump up substantially.

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Anybody want to take a run at a Chris Kreider who put up 28 goals last year?  I'd rather have him on our side than have him take another skates first run at Carey.  Maybe a package of Peca, Hudon and a 5th?

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19 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

Anybody want to take a run at a Chris Kreider who put up 28 goals last year?  I'd rather have him on our side than have him take another skates first run at Carey.  Maybe a package of Peca, Hudon and a 5th?

Why would New York unload Chris Kreider for our spare parts? Would you trade Brendan Gallagher in the last year of his contract for two career AHLers and a late round draft choice?

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7 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Why would New York unload Chris Kreider for our spare parts? Would you trade Brendan Gallagher in the last year of his contract for two career AHLers and a late round draft choice?

That;s why MB gets unfairly criticized for not doing enough. People think everyone is available and for cheap

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2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Why would New York unload Chris Kreider for our spare parts? Would you trade Brendan Gallagher in the last year of his contract for two career AHLers and a late round draft choice?

I'm not advocating we persue Kreider but the Rangers are in a Cap crunch and he could be a target for teams. He could potentially come cheap but I agree it's highly unlikely they take back garbage. It's likely picks or prospects they entertain as options

https://www.tsn.ca/report-rangers-put-pavel-buchnevich-and-vladislav-namestnikov-on-trade-block-1.1337906

 

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I stil think we should be putting maximum effort into prying one of Philly's LHD out of there.  

It seems like they have a lot of cap space ($13m) but they have to resign two key free agents looking for big raises (Konecny and Provorov).  Once that is done they'll have the bare minimum of players signed & really need to add some depth.   But maybe more imporant than the cap hit is the depth. They have Provorov, Sanheim and Ghost as their top LHD.  Thats 3 guys who are potentially top pairing LHD.  Braun is their second best RHD and probably ranks 5th on our roster.  

So the question is, can we swing a trade for say,  Juulsen +   ________ for one of those guys (I assume Provorov is untouchable but who knows, if they cant work out a deal?) maybe Sanheim is available although I imagine Ghost is the guy they want to move.

If the team has enough faith in Brook and/or Fleury being ready, do you maybe toy with the idea of moving Petry (Weber isnt going anywhere while MB is in charge) Is  Weber - Juulsen - Brook - Folin - Fleury  good enough on the right side if we can add a guy like Sanheim on the left?  

 

I feel like there's a real opportunity to make a deal with Philly. Not sure if MB will seize it though. 

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55 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I'm not advocating we persue Kreider but the Rangers are in a Cap crunch and he could be a target for teams. He could potentially come cheap but I agree it's highly unlikely they take back garbage. It's likely picks or prospects they entertain as options

https://www.tsn.ca/report-rangers-put-pavel-buchnevich-and-vladislav-namestnikov-on-trade-block-1.1337906

 

Cap crunch? They have 21/23 players signed for next season and almost $8 million in cap space to work with. It mostly just looks like they need to resign Jacob Trouba. I don't think they need to trade anyone else to accomplish that. I feel like the TSN article is playing off of our respective need for "something"... "anything" to happen during the doldrums of the summer.

Also, there's no way, if the Rangers do need to clear space, they'll trade Kreider for nothing to accomplish it. And Peca, Hudon, and fifth are just that. Nothing.

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47 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I stil think we should be putting maximum effort into prying one of Philly's LHD out of there.  

It seems like they have a lot of cap space ($13m) but they have to resign two key free agents looking for big raises (Konecny and Provorov).  Once that is done they'll have the bare minimum of players signed & really need to add some depth.   But maybe more imporant than the cap hit is the depth. They have Provorov, Sanheim and Ghost as their top LHD.  Thats 3 guys who are potentially top pairing LHD.  Braun is their second best RHD and probably ranks 5th on our roster.  

So the question is, can we swing a trade for say,  Juulsen +   ________ for one of those guys (I assume Provorov is untouchable but who knows, if they cant work out a deal?) maybe Sanheim is available although I imagine Ghost is the guy they want to move.

If the team has enough faith in Brook and/or Fleury being ready, do you maybe toy with the idea of moving Petry (Weber isnt going anywhere while MB is in charge) Is  Weber - Juulsen - Brook - Folin - Fleury  good enough on the right side if we can add a guy like Sanheim on the left?  

 

I feel like there's a real opportunity to make a deal with Philly. Not sure if MB will seize it though. 

Sounds super sensible. I feel like we should be targeting a team that is in the opposite situation that we are in. Perhaps "overloaded" at LD and lacking on RD. Based on what you're saying, Philadelphia sounds like a good trade partner. Gostisbehere has been coming up over and over in discussions here. He seems like he would be an excellent fit for our top-four.

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3 hours ago, habsisme said:

That;s why MB gets unfairly criticized for not doing enough. People think everyone is available and for cheap

Or they over value the guys we have ... eg Hudon ... Hudon is a guy we didn't even qualify, who played himself out of a lineup spot and is almost certainly done in Montreal ... at best he alone fetches a low (5th+) draft choice if somebody thinks he's a project ... but he's not the guy you're going to say get anything better than another Hudon for.

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Posted (edited)

34 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

Or they over value the guys we have ... eg Hudon ... Hudon is a guy we didn't even qualify, who played himself out of a lineup spot and is almost certainly done in Montreal ... at best he alone fetches a low (5th+) draft choice if somebody thinks he's a project ... but he's not the guy you're going to say get anything better than another Hudon for.

Indeed. Hudon's value could possibly rise in camp (if he's even at our camp), but right now he has about as much value as any AHL player. That is to say, very little.

Edited by jennifer_rocket
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According to Sport24 site in Russia, Andrei Markov's new agent, Sergei Isakov, has been in touch with Montreal. 

“I personally spoke with the main scout of “Montreal” and strongly recommended paying attention to Andrei, at least out of respect for him.”

Tony Marinaro of TSN690 adds that reports indicate he's looking for a $2million contract. 

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5 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

According to Sport24 site in Russia, Andrei Markov's new agent, Sergei Isakov, has been in touch with Montreal. 

“I personally spoke with the main scout of “Montreal” and strongly recommended paying attention to Andrei, at least out of respect for him.”

Tony Marinaro of TSN690 adds that reports indicate he's looking for a $2million contract. 

I love Markov but at this stage of his career, he's just not the answer to our LHD problem.

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5 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

According to Sport24 site in Russia, Andrei Markov's new agent, Sergei Isakov, has been in touch with Montreal. 

“I personally spoke with the main scout of “Montreal” and strongly recommended paying attention to Andrei, at least out of respect for him.”

Tony Marinaro of TSN690 adds that reports indicate he's looking for a $2million contract. 

Love Markov, but... Wouldn't bring him back in anything more than a symbolic "retire as a Hab" deal. He's not going to be able to provide any boost to our D at this stage of his career.

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Im in! We don't have a sure solution to the problem. He could suprise. One year deal, I would sign him unless we have other plans

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I loved Marky as a Hab but I would be leary bringing him back at this stage of his career.  He had great vision on our PP and I would argue it hasn't been the same since his departure, but I have serious doubts he could play to that level once again. Would love to see him retire as a Hab though.

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59 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

According to Sport24 site in Russia, Andrei Markov's new agent, Sergei Isakov, has been in touch with Montreal. 

“I personally spoke with the main scout of “Montreal” and strongly recommended paying attention to Andrei, at least out of respect for him.”

Tony Marinaro of TSN690 adds that reports indicate he's looking for a $2million contract. 

 

54 minutes ago, ChiLla said:

I love Markov but at this stage of his career, he's just not the answer to our LHD problem.

 

54 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

Love Markov, but... Wouldn't bring him back in anything more than a symbolic "retire as a Hab" deal. He's not going to be able to provide any boost to our D at this stage of his career.

 

18 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

I loved Marky as a Hab but I would be leary bringing him back at this stage of his career.  He had great vision on our PP and I would argue it hasn't been the same since his departure, but I have serious doubts he could play to that level once again. Would love to see him retire as a Hab though.

 

Im with the majority:  Pass on Markov.  I mean if he wants to come be a player liason or something fine, but on the ice there's just no point.   I have little doubt he'd be fine on the 3rd pair and a PP specialist but we are trying to build a better team moving forward and he's clearly at the twilight of his career. 

We dont need more LHD depth. We need a guy who is clearly better than Mete, Kulak, Chiarot, Reilly, Olofsson, Leskinen, etc,    Markie may well be better than any of those guys for a short stint but over 82 games?   He wont supplant Mete or Kulak or probably most of those guys so there's just no point.  

 

Will always have a special place in my heart for Markie but adding him to this roster makes zero sense.  

 

Expect MB to do it. :rolleyes: 

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32 minutes ago, maas_art said:

 

 

 

 

Im with the majority:  Pass on Markov.  I mean if he wants to come be a player liason or something fine, but on the ice there's just no point.   I have little doubt he'd be fine on the 3rd pair and a PP specialist but we are trying to build a better team moving forward and he's clearly at the twilight of his career. 

We dont need more LHD depth. We need a guy who is clearly better than Mete, Kulak, Chiarot, Reilly, Olofsson, Leskinen, etc,    Markie may well be better than any of those guys for a short stint but over 82 games?   He wont supplant Mete or Kulak or probably most of those guys so there's just no point.  

 

Will always have a special place in my heart for Markie but adding him to this roster makes zero sense.  

 

Expect MB to do it. :rolleyes: 

The problem was/is, that MB let him walk in the 1st place. i think I would have liked to see how much of his age has slowed him down. 

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15 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

The problem was/is, that MB let him walk in the 1st place. i think I would have liked to see how much of his age has slowed him down. 

He was slow when he left now he would be a pylon! he would know what to do and not be able to get there in time.

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

He was slow when he left now he would be a pylon! he would know what to do and not be able to get there in time.

He'll mid 41 mid-season and from looking at his stats last year was his last. I'd say and hope there's NO chance he plays a game with us

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1 hour ago, booboo_mtl said:

He'll mid 41 mid-season and from looking at his stats last year was his last. I'd say and hope there's NO chance he plays a game with us

Ya.  14 points in 49 games in the KHL is not so good. 

I dont think he'd be as bad as Streit - and I dont think he'd actively hurt us if you played him on the 3rd pair - but I dont see any point in even considering him at this stage. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

Ya.  14 points in 49 games in the KHL is not so good. 

I dont think he'd be as bad as Streit - and I dont think he'd actively hurt us if you played him on the 3rd pair - but I dont see any point in even considering him at this stage. 

It may make sense to sign him for a year IF we were trading Kulak maybe as part of a package for Laine but there are still  other options

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