kinot-2

Rumours

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Yeah,,, it's not like we've been drafting top 10 talent every year. That's the problem with being a middle of the pack team. You get middle of the pack talent. Chucky was one of our highest picks since Price and that whole draft wasn't exactly a barn burner year as it turned out. Yakupov anybody?

I would say that the the years of an inexperienced coach (SL) on the farm didn't do us any favours, and that falls on MB. The McCaron draft was also a bomb and again that's on MB insisting on size over talent. Overall i don't think we've drafted that poorly seeing as we were drafting in this hit or miss area of the draft for years.

Maybe our biggest mistake was drafting Price because he's pretty much single handidly carried this team for a decade now, not allowing us to tank and pick up those high picks year after year.

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When I said ruined I don’t mean it as from being a super star, I mean it as ruined them from being anymore than they became. All of the players I mentioned and more I feel could have turned out better. But again players don’t tend to grow when they are always demoted or benched. They grow from playing, building chemistry and getting comfortable in the game. All I was meaning is that players are held back and misused and it hurts them from becoming the player they could be. Mark my words the same thing will happen to kotkineimi  

Yes scouting is a huge issue, but again how many players have the Habs developed into anything in the last 20 plus years? I think a lot of the players we had a chance with would have become much more on almost any other team. But as long as the coaching staff only wants to play vets, grinders and “character” it won’t change. The nhl has become a speed, skilled and young mans game and the Habs have not adapted. If they don’t they will always be what they are, a middle of the pack team. 

At the end of the day let the kids play! Let them make their mistakes. 

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Saw an article in the hockey writers today about the Habs having the assets to upgrade the roster. The most interesting part of the article was who they thought we should trade for. That list is Jamie Benn, Jonas Brodin, Taylor Hall and Josh Anderson. My opinions on those 4 are 

Jamie Benn - only if the Stars take back Alzner in any trade 

Jonas Brodin - Very interesting but as long as we aren't giving up eithe Suzuki, KK or Caufield.

Taylor Hall - again very interesting but at what cost

Josh Anderson - interseting maybe replaces Tomas Tatar in the top 6

Thoughts?

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-available-assets-roster-upgrade/

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4 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Saw an article in the hockey writers today about the Habs having the assets to upgrade the roster. The most interesting part of the article was who they thought we should trade for. That list is Jamie Benn, Jonas Brodin, Taylor Hall and Josh Anderson. My opinions on those 4 are 

Jamie Benn - only if the Stars take back Alzner in any trade 

Jonas Brodin - Very interesting but as long as we aren't giving up eithe Suzuki, KK or Caufield.

Taylor Hall - again very interesting but at what cost

Josh Anderson - interseting maybe replaces Tomas Tatar in the top 6

Thoughts?

https://thehockeywriters.com/canadiens-available-assets-roster-upgrade/

First off, from what I've seen of the hockey writers, it tends to be a lot of fans just speculating about things, as opposed to people with any inside knowledge of anything. As for the list given here, I would say this:

- Benn: obviously still a very talented forward who would add something to our line-up. But he's 30 and has 6 more years, a NMC, and a hefty contract. That deal is fine for now but it isn't likely to end well. It's a pass for me.

- Brodin... there was talk about Galchenyuk for Brodin two years ago. He's a LHD, young enough at 26, and on a reasonable contract, although it expires in a year and a half. So you're either only getting him for that time or else you're paying the premium to keep him. I imagine he'll get somewhere between 6-7M on his next deal, which probably isn't worth it. Brodin's solid, but I don't know that he fixes the big need for a puck-moving partner for Weber, even if he's better than what we currently have. I'd be willing to part with a 2nd rounder and a prospect for him.

- Hall... UFA after this year, so he's pretty much a rental. So that comes back to "are you a Cup contender where that move puts you over the top?" The answer is no. Unless Bergevin addresses the gaping hole at left D, there's no point in spending big on Hall. Pass.

- Anderson... he's a big guy who can score. I'd be interested. Again, this doesn't address our hole at left D but he's a player who could make sense. I'd wonder about swapping out someone like Lehkonen in a trade... say Lehkonen and a 3rd for Anderson, for example.

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The Taylor Hall rumor just does not seem to be going away. To me this would be the time to pull off that deal. Unfortunately MB has never been great at these kind of deals. Even if it is not Hall, quite a few teams have to be looking at moving some quality players. Time to figure out which young guys we can afford to move and pull off a big deal.  

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2 hours ago, tony5775 said:

The Taylor Hall rumor just does not seem to be going away. To me this would be the time to pull off that deal. Unfortunately MB has never been great at these kind of deals. Even if it is not Hall, quite a few teams have to be looking at moving some quality players. Time to figure out which young guys we can afford to move and pull off a big deal.  

Elliotte Friedmann today stated he didn't think it would be surprising to see MB try to swing a big trade, and Eric Engels said Taylor Hall's name won't go away... I'll maintain the Habs need to address their left D before they go after a forward, but that being said, Hall is a player who would help us. The thing with Hall is that he's told the Devils he wants to test free agency. Maybe he's just not wanting to re-sign in NJ, maybe he actually wants to see what money is out there for him. Don't know. But it would suggest any team acquiring him is getting him without any guarantee of a new contract, and if a new contract comes, it's likely a costly one. So I'd keep that in mind when talking about any trade.

If we're looking for a comparable, Mark Stone being traded at the deadline last year is probably the closest thing we'll find recently. Sure, Hall has won a Hart trophy, but Stone is just as prolific a scorer, thought to be good defensively, and was 26 at the time he was traded (vs. Hall being 28 now). So I think the return in a trade would likely be somewhat similar, maybe even lower with Vegas knowing they would be able to re-sign Stone and no one being sure what Hall will do. Stone fetched recent mid 1st round pick D man Erik Brannstrom, a 2nd rounder, and a throw-in player who's already out of the NHL. So forgetting the throw-in, the question is who we'd have to add to a 2nd rounder to make a deal... Kotkaniemi is a recent 3rd overall pick and likely too valuable to be comparable to a mid-round 1st like Brannstrom. Poehling was a bit of a lower pick and likely less valuable. And Sergachev has already been dealt. Cole Caufield fits the same billing as a 15th overall pick, but if you're the Habs, the guy looks like he might be able to crack your roster next year or even for the playoffs this season (if we make it), and he's younger and a guy you get cost-controlled for several years. IMO, that's more valuable in itself than Hall. So I'm not sure we have a straight-up comparable to Brannstrom but I think we'd likely have to look at building any type of trade around Romanov, Josh Brook, Jesse Ylonen, or one of our upcoming 1st rounders. So for example, would a 1st + Romanov + one of Lehkonen or Byron be enough?

As another reference, Matt Duchene fetched even less than Stone, and he's also a pretty good comparable... 28 at the time of the trade, pretty reasonable assumption that he wasn't going to re-sign with Columbus, so a pure rental, etc... that might suggest the Habs wouldn't be low-balling NJ if they went in just with Romanov and a 2nd rounder or Brook and a 2nd rounder or Poehling and a 2nd rounder or so on.

IMO, Suzuki, Primeau, Kotkaniemi, and Caufield are untouchables in any discussions for Hall. He's not worth it at his age and for the rental type player he would end up being. He's definitely worth pursuing, but I think NJ would have to be realistic as to the market set by the likes of the Duchene or Stone deals last year.

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2 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Elliotte Friedmann today stated he didn't think it would be surprising to see MB try to swing a big trade, and Eric Engels said Taylor Hall's name won't go away... I'll maintain the Habs need to address their left D before they go after a forward, but that being said, Hall is a player who would help us. The thing with Hall is that he's told the Devils he wants to test free agency. Maybe he's just not wanting to re-sign in NJ, maybe he actually wants to see what money is out there for him. Don't know. But it would suggest any team acquiring him is getting him without any guarantee of a new contract, and if a new contract comes, it's likely a costly one. So I'd keep that in mind when talking about any trade.

If we're looking for a comparable, Mark Stone being traded at the deadline last year is probably the closest thing we'll find recently. Sure, Hall has won a Hart trophy, but Stone is just as prolific a scorer, thought to be good defensively, and was 26 at the time he was traded (vs. Hall being 28 now). So I think the return in a trade would likely be somewhat similar, maybe even lower with Vegas knowing they would be able to re-sign Stone and no one being sure what Hall will do. Stone fetched recent mid 1st round pick D man Erik Brannstrom, a 2nd rounder, and a throw-in player who's already out of the NHL. So forgetting the throw-in, the question is who we'd have to add to a 2nd rounder to make a deal... Kotkaniemi is a recent 3rd overall pick and likely too valuable to be comparable to a mid-round 1st like Brannstrom. Poehling was a bit of a lower pick and likely less valuable. And Sergachev has already been dealt. Cole Caufield fits the same billing as a 15th overall pick, but if you're the Habs, the guy looks like he might be able to crack your roster next year or even for the playoffs this season (if we make it), and he's younger and a guy you get cost-controlled for several years. IMO, that's more valuable in itself than Hall. So I'm not sure we have a straight-up comparable to Brannstrom but I think we'd likely have to look at building any type of trade around Romanov, Josh Brook, Jesse Ylonen, or one of our upcoming 1st rounders. So for example, would a 1st + Romanov + one of Lehkonen or Byron be enough?

As another reference, Matt Duchene fetched even less than Stone, and he's also a pretty good comparable... 28 at the time of the trade, pretty reasonable assumption that he wasn't going to re-sign with Columbus, so a pure rental, etc... that might suggest the Habs wouldn't be low-balling NJ if they went in just with Romanov and a 2nd rounder or Brook and a 2nd rounder or Poehling and a 2nd rounder or so on.

IMO, Suzuki, Primeau, Kotkaniemi, and Caufield are untouchables in any discussions for Hall. He's not worth it at his age and for the rental type player he would end up being. He's definitely worth pursuing, but I think NJ would have to be realistic as to the market set by the likes of the Duchene or Stone deals last year.

I agree with all of this, good comparables and ideas of assessing trade value.

I would add that I do know Hall is a real hockey player in the same way that Gallagher and Domi are, in that they live and breathe hockey and they want to win.  IE Hall is not a money guy, a specific market guy, a pre-madonna, etc. he is of the same ilk to many players currently on the Habs, so in that sense he would likely be a good fit and extend upon our existing culture.

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Priority #1 right now may be trying to find a backup that the coach is comfortable playing. Niemi cost us a playoff spot last year and we might be facing the same scenario with Kinkaid if CJ won't use him 

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Habs had two scouts at the LA-SJ game last night and have been actively scouting both those teams significantly this year. Martinez (now hurt), Toffoli, and Vlasic all names that have been rumored to be in our headlights.

Tonight, MB spotted at the Chi-Dal game, with reports that he has personally been scouting the Hawk's AHL team as well lately.

Obviously, with the Habs stinking and having injury issues recently, lots of thought that the Habs are looking to trade... don't know if the above suggest LA, SJ, or Chi could be a target for him.

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On 11/26/2019 at 8:54 PM, BigTed3 said:

Habs had two scouts at the LA-SJ game last night and have been actively scouting both those teams significantly this year. Martinez (now hurt), Toffoli, and Vlasic all names that have been rumored to be in our headlights.

Tonight, MB spotted at the Chi-Dal game, with reports that he has personally been scouting the Hawk's AHL team as well lately.

Obviously, with the Habs stinking and having injury issues recently, lots of thought that the Habs are looking to trade... don't know if the above suggest LA, SJ, or Chi could be a target for him.

So if Duncan Keith was available and agreed to come. What would you be willing to give up and how much salary would you want the black hawks to keep. Lets leave his age out of it we all know how old he is.

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42 minutes ago, tony5775 said:

So if Duncan Keith was available and agreed to come. What would you be willing to give up and how much salary would you want the black hawks to keep. Lets leave his age out of it we all know how old he is.

IMO, he's not the right player to be targeting. Hard to forget his age when he's 36 and has 3 more years left on his deal after this one. The only advantage would be that his base salary is reasonably low, so you could maybe turn around and flip him to a team needing to get to the cap floor if he doesn't pan out.

So what would I give up? Since I'm not overly interested in getting a past-prime D man (I think we should be targeting more a player who is in the 23-26 age range right now and give up more in a trade than get an older asset who is already past prime) I wouldn't give up too much. I'd consider moving a 3rd round pick and a B level prospect like Evans or Leskinen or so on. Don't know that that would be enough to get it done, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep about it if it didn't. I'd want Chicago to retain at least 1.5M on any trade.

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

IMO, he's not the right player to be targeting. Hard to forget his age when he's 36 and has 3 more years left on his deal after this one. The only advantage would be that his base salary is reasonably low, so you could maybe turn around and flip him to a team needing to get to the cap floor if he doesn't pan out.

So what would I give up? Since I'm not overly interested in getting a past-prime D man (I think we should be targeting more a player who is in the 23-26 age range right now and give up more in a trade than get an older asset who is already past prime) I wouldn't give up too much. I'd consider moving a 3rd round pick and a B level prospect like Evans or Leskinen or so on. Don't know that that would be enough to get it done, but I wouldn't lose too much sleep about it if it didn't. I'd want Chicago to retain at least 1.5M on any trade.

I agree but only if they were to take CJ and MB as part of the deal as well

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Cant find info on any legitimate site but there seems to be a lot of smoke that MB and Chuck Fletcher are in pretty serious talks about one of their LD.   Obviously its not Provorov.  The obvious choice would be Ghostibehere, who has fallen out of favour there & might be had for less than market value.  However I wonder if MB would consider adding more & trying to add Sanheim who is both younger and imho better than Ghost.

Will be interesting to see if anything comes of this or if any reputable guys start reporting on it. 

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19 hours ago, maas_art said:

Cant find info on any legitimate site but there seems to be a lot of smoke that MB and Chuck Fletcher are in pretty serious talks about one of their LD.   Obviously its not Provorov.  The obvious choice would be Ghostibehere, who has fallen out of favour there & might be had for less than market value.  However I wonder if MB would consider adding more & trying to add Sanheim who is both younger and imho better than Ghost.

Will be interesting to see if anything comes of this or if any reputable guys start reporting on it. 

What do you think Philly is in need of?

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40 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What do you think Philly is in need of?

Not a lot they have ballanced scoring, one of the best young D in the league and a great starting young Goalie. If anything maybe a forward like Tatar, Lehkonen or Armia plus other assets.

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

Not a lot they have ballanced scoring, one of the best young D in the league and a great starting young Goalie. If anything maybe a forward like Tatar, Lehkonen or Armia plus other assets.

If it is Ghost I wouldn't give up a lot. His defensive play hasn't been great. He has actually been sat by Philly. That means he's not even 3rd pairing D. It's not like they're that stacked. Sanheim I'd be more interested in though Philly probably won't deal him. It would be nice to have an offensive D man but I want a defense man that can also play defense which comes first.

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3 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

What do you think Philly is in need of?

Their Right D is a bit slim.  It would make sense for us to move a RD for a LD.  We'd likely have to include someone else (prospect or pick) depending upon which of their LD we were after. 

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According to Eklund (insert rolleyes) we are talking the sens about Jean-Gabriel Pageau    Considering Ek's track record hopefully this is once again fabrication but if there's any truth to it, I hope not.

I like JGP. He's a good player. A solid player - a guy any coach would love to have - but:

- he's 27.
- he's having a career year
- he's UFA this summer
- Ottawa is in the middle of a rebuild

All of these things signal big RED FLAGS especially with MB at the helm.   I have no doubt that JGP will be a good player for several more years but considering that Ottawa will likely want young talent for him, I would stay far away from any deal. He's also more of the same for our roster.  When everyone is healthy he falls somewhere right in the middle of our talent depth at forward.  He's also a natural centre so just who exactly is playing in front of/behind him?  Domi, Danault, JK, Poehling, Suzuki?  

Sure if they wanna give us Pageau for Byron, im all for it but considering what they'll likely ask for (young roster player, good prospect, high pick) im not interested. Hopefully MB isnt either. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

According to Eklund (insert rolleyes) we are talking the sens about Jean-Gabriel Pageau    Considering Ek's track record hopefully this is once again fabrication but if there's any truth to it, I hope not.

I like JGP. He's a good player. A solid player - a guy any coach would love to have - but:

- he's 27.
- he's having a career year
- he's UFA this summer
- Ottawa is in the middle of a rebuild

All of these things signal big RED FLAGS especially with MB at the helm.   I have no doubt that JGP will be a good player for several more years but considering that Ottawa will likely want young talent for him, I would stay far away from any deal. He's also more of the same for our roster.  When everyone is healthy he falls somewhere right in the middle of our talent depth at forward.  He's also a natural centre so just who exactly is playing in front of/behind him?  Domi, Danault, JK, Poehling, Suzuki?  

Sure if they wanna give us Pageau for Byron, im all for it but considering what they'll likely ask for (young roster player, good prospect, high pick) im not interested. Hopefully MB isnt either. 

No way the other thing the article doesn't say is he is from Ottawa and there is speculation that if he is traded it is going to be as a rental cause he is likely to resign with the Sens anyway according to Sportsnet

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

According to Eklund (insert rolleyes) we are talking the sens about Jean-Gabriel Pageau    Considering Ek's track record hopefully this is once again fabrication but if there's any truth to it, I hope not.

I like JGP. He's a good player. A solid player - a guy any coach would love to have - but:

- he's 27.
- he's having a career year
- he's UFA this summer
- Ottawa is in the middle of a rebuild

All of these things signal big RED FLAGS especially with MB at the helm.   I have no doubt that JGP will be a good player for several more years but considering that Ottawa will likely want young talent for him, I would stay far away from any deal. He's also more of the same for our roster.  When everyone is healthy he falls somewhere right in the middle of our talent depth at forward.  He's also a natural centre so just who exactly is playing in front of/behind him?  Domi, Danault, JK, Poehling, Suzuki?  

Sure if they wanna give us Pageau for Byron, im all for it but considering what they'll likely ask for (young roster player, good prospect, high pick) im not interested. Hopefully MB isnt either. 

Giant PASS for me. Not to mention that rumor creators like Eklund tend to over-inflate the Habs interest in any player who has a French name...  Pageau doesn't solve any of our issues.

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3 hours ago, maas_art said:

According to Eklund (insert rolleyes) we are talking the sens about Jean-Gabriel Pageau    Considering Ek's track record hopefully this is once again fabrication but if there's any truth to it, I hope not.
 

I read that yesterday, but from a different "reporter", so I didn't post it as it "seemed" like unreliable gossip. 

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Nothing really concrete but with the number scouts we've had a blackhawk games & the fact that MB likes to trade with Chicago there's some speculation that we are inquiring about Erik Gustafsson  

Its an interesting thought. He's 27, a solid puck-moving defensman who would easily become our #1LD.    He's probably not really suited as a top pairing guy (although he did score 60 points last year) but would immediately be at the top of our depth chart. 

He's an UFA this summer so its tough to say what the asking price would be and if we'd want a sign and trade.  Ideally you'd probably want a 4 year deal but i am assuming he'd be wanting 6+ years. 

 

Not sure if anything will come of this but wouldnt be surprised if MB was kicking the tires.

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Renaud Lavoie:

Lots of talks about Taylor Hall who’s on the trading block. The @canadiens are not in the mix I’m told, so don’t bet on that possibility. Question is now where he will land and can it be done before the Hollidays trade freeze on December 19 ?

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1 minute ago, kinot-2 said:

Renaud Lavoie:

Lots of talks about Taylor Hall who’s on the trading block. The @canadiens are not in the mix I’m told, so don’t bet on that possibility. Question is now where he will land and can it be done before the Hollidays trade freeze on December 19 ?

Yeah I honestly dont see MB having too much interest in Hall. I mean he's a great player yes, but NJ is going to want the same things we want to hold on to and I think the cost to acquire him would hurt us in other areas.   Id be very surprised if we made any sort of offer for him. 

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Yeah I honestly dont see MB having too much interest in Hall. I mean he's a great player yes, but NJ is going to want the same things we want to hold on to and I think the cost to acquire him would hurt us in other areas.   Id be very surprised if we made any sort of offer for him. 

I don't mind either way an offer or not. I will say this though MB has tried really hard this year to land some big names Duchene, Aho and Gardiner and there were even rumblings of Karlsson so it wouldn't surprise me if he was after Hall and making a serious push.

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