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41 minutes ago, habs1952 said:

Yeah, we have depth at center, but subtract Domi and we have very little proven talent.

Like I said I don't really want to lose Domi either he is a valuable part of the team and I see everyone's point about Liane being a liability and costing too much as well. To be honest I didn't realize just how one dimensional Liane was as I haven't seen him play too often. We need a proven scoring winger or a 1 LHD. When I said I would have to consider Domi for Liane I felt that Danault, JK, Poehling can handle the top 3 lines and Thompson or Weal could run the 4th line. I know JK and Poehling are inexperienced but they are both probably making the team anyway this year and should be further up the lineup than 3rd and 4th line centre therefore that would make either Danault or Domi (I don't want to say expendable cause they are both great players) the odd ones out. Plus Domi played well this year it is obvious to anyone but just like your reservations about JK and Poehling Domi is inexperienced at centre as well. He only really has 1 year at centre as well and the little time he spent at centre with the Coyotes he failed miserably. We are definitely better with Domi IF he continues to build on the season he had last year but there is no guarantees he will. We all hope he does but like you pointed out about JK Peohling Suzuki and Caufield we just can't be sure he will. 

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23 hours ago, CaptWelly said:

Weal only played center for us when JK actually slumped being a rookie. There is no for sure that JK will even have as good as season this year as last. He was sheltered on the 3rd line against weaker opponents and he's not surprising anyone this year. He "may" end up great , but that may still take a couple of years. Poehling I believe will do alright but he is still going to be a rookie so we have no real idea. Danault and Thompson are the two only real known quantities we have there. Also when Lainie goes into a slump and he's not back checking and playing hard , which happened just last year! The fans will be on him just like Drouin , but it'll be at 10 million a season. At least when Drouin doesn't play up to his talent it's still a somewhat reasonable contract. I think if we're patient Colfield in a year from now 20-21 season may be that sniper we're looking for. I could see 20-21 season being a turn around with then Suzuki and Colfield both coming in and hopefully the Russian defenseman. Everyone wants to build through draft but no one has the actual patient to let it play out. I want to make the playoffs every year myself but Domi who is young great vision plays hard everywhere on the ice I don't want to give up. Domi is the type player who can makes others better around him where Laine has a great shot, take his shot away and what are his other great qualities? Ovie great shot but also a dominate bull of a player. Has skill for high light goals and crushing hits and when they won the cup he was even blocking shots playing hard everywhere. I would love a player with his shot for our pp and him as a supplement to Domi or even JK in the future maybe, but I'm not giving up Domi for him. IMO Domi brings way more to the game.

Trust me Laine is more than just a shooter, Winnipeg as a team was not that great this season, Laine still had 30 goals this season, his shot total was even higher then previous seasons, his shooting % dropped off by 6% points, thats why his numbers were down.  I love Domi, but if it was Domi for Laine straight up that would be a gift. I suspect Winnipeg would want a lot more than that. There are not too many teams that would want to defend against KK, Laine and Lekonen for the next 7 pr 8 years. Who cares about his defensive game you would have Leks and KK to look after that.

There are only 7 players who have scored 44 or more goals in the last 3 seasons in the NHL, Laine is one of them. He just turned 21 in April. Laine has the abilty to be a 50 goal scorer in the NHL which is rare. There are only 6 players in the last 10 years not named OVIE to score 50 goals. Laine will be one in the coming years, mark my words.    

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Has anyone heard anything with regards to Gardiner??  We could certainly use his talent on the back end depending on the price of course, has so good offensive upside to go along with a few brain farts with the defensive side so it would certainly depend on the price tag.

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26 minutes ago, 26NCounting said:

Has anyone heard anything with regards to Gardiner??  We could certainly use his talent on the back end depending on the price of course, has so good offensive upside to go along with a few brain farts with the defensive side so it would certainly depend on the price tag.

I believe there are two factors. He probably wants to see what TO does after Mariner and from the other teams looking at him , they're probably are cautious for what you get vs. cost because as much offense as he might bring he's not top price $ tag defensively.

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1 hour ago, 26NCounting said:

Has anyone heard anything with regards to Gardiner??  We could certainly use his talent on the back end depending on the price of course, has so good offensive upside to go along with a few brain farts with the defensive side so it would certainly depend on the price tag.

 

1 hour ago, CaptWelly said:

I believe there are two factors. He probably wants to see what TO does after Mariner and from the other teams looking at him , they're probably are cautious for what you get vs. cost because as much offense as he might bring he's not top price $ tag defensively.

Rumour is he wants term and nobody is willing to give it to him ( in other words he's looking for a sucker ) . As a GM i'd be cautious too.

After T.O. signs Marner they'll have pretty much 0 cap space,, so i seriously doubt he's back to T.O. unless he plays for peanuts.

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2 hours ago, 26NCounting said:

Has anyone heard anything with regards to Gardiner??  We could certainly use his talent on the back end depending on the price of course, has so good offensive upside to go along with a few brain farts with the defensive side so it would certainly depend on the price tag.

 

50 minutes ago, H_T_L said:

 

Rumour is he wants term and nobody is willing to give it to him ( in other words he's looking for a sucker ) . As a GM i'd be cautious too.

After T.O. signs Marner they'll have pretty much 0 cap space,, so i seriously doubt he's back to T.O. unless he plays for peanuts.

Yeah Mike Johnson & co were talking about it at length the other day.  They said there were only really a few possibilities:

 

1) His back is actually a problem.  They felt this was unlikely because if teams had given him medicals & he had failed, most likely someone would know and would have reported on it by now

2) He wants a very specific deal (ie he wants 5 year or he wants 7 years or whatever).   They didn't seem to think money was an issue at all, but rather term.  They were surprised that no one had made an offer he couldnt refuse, specifically citing the habs, which led them to believe:

3) If he cant get that term, he may be waiting to see if the Leafs can afford him after signing Marner.  This may be a shorter deal or even a 1 year show-me deal.  They said that despite getting booed and taking tons of criticism from leafs fans, he apparently loves it in TO and has said he'd really prefer to stay over anything.

 

Ive also heard other insiders (LeBrun for example) who claim several teams have offered him 1 or 2 year deals (and hes quite sure we did too) but that Gardiner has bascially said "if i cant get term, i'll just go back to toronto."

 

I wouldnt be surprised at all if MB has one of his famous "take it or leave it"deals on the table, so it wouldnt shock me to see gardiner sign with us for a year or 2 if this drags on & the leafs cant afford him/dont offer him something.    

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Beware of players who cannot be resigned by their former teams. Gardiner's case would appear to be different from that of other UFA's where the player wants to see what they can get. Gardiner is supposedly heading into his prime and would like to stay in Toronto, but the Leafs are not interested in making that happen. I am sure he will be getting a short term offer, but as of now his playoff team that would like to make a run at the cup do not see him as a part of that process and appear to be unconcerned with losing him. That is not a positive outcome when evaluating the value of Mr. Gardiner.

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7 hours ago, Habberwacky said:

Beware of players who cannot be resigned by their former teams. Gardiner's case would appear to be different from that of other UFA's where the player wants to see what they can get. Gardiner is supposedly heading into his prime and would like to stay in Toronto, but the Leafs are not interested in making that happen. I am sure he will be getting a short term offer, but as of now his playoff team that would like to make a run at the cup do not see him as a part of that process and appear to be unconcerned with losing him. That is not a positive outcome when evaluating the value of Mr. Gardiner.

I just don't think the Leafs CAN make it happen. I'm sure the Leafs would be open to keeping Gardiner, but... Marner is clearly the priority and money is tight.

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51 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I just don't think the Leafs CAN make it happen. I'm sure the Leafs would be open to keeping Gardiner, but... Marner is clearly the priority and money is tight.

Agreed. Everything ive heard points to the laffs wanting him back but knowing that Marner is the priority.

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1 hour ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I do love watching their cap troubles unfold. I hope it gets worse and worse and worse and worse for Toronto.

Yeah I read a pretty interesting article from a leafs fan/analyst who thinks Dubas has really mishandled the contracts there.  He made some strong points - with the biggest being the Nylander saga and the fact that as wonderful a player as John Tavares is, to sign him & then try to keep everyone else (with considerable holes elsewhere in the lineup) was not an ideal choice. 

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10 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Yeah I read a pretty interesting article from a leafs fan/analyst who thinks Dubas has really mishandled the contracts there.  He made some strong points - with the biggest being the Nylander saga and the fact that as wonderful a player as John Tavares is, to sign him & then try to keep everyone else (with considerable holes elsewhere in the lineup) was not an ideal choice. 

It kind of feels like Edmonton's failure to turn all of those highly touted first round draft choices into anything meaningful. I get signing Tavares. I don't get hording all of your players and signing them to these huge deals instead of using them to balance your roster (i.e. using the forwards to acquire top defensive assets).

When Edmonton finally tried to do that, they lost big on the Hall/Larsson trade, IMO. Will Toronto end up doing the same thing?

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2 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

It kind of feels like Edmonton's failure to turn all of those highly touted first round draft choices into anything meaningful. I get signing Tavares. I don't get hording all of your players and signing them to these huge deals instead of using them to balance your roster (i.e. using the forwards to acquire top defensive assets).

When Edmonton finally tried to do that, they lost big on the Hall/Larsson trade, IMO. Will Toronto end up doing the same thing?

Totally. And the thing about Tavares is that yes, he's a generational talent but you already have an Elite #1 Centre (Matthews)  and probably a #1 on most teams (Nylander, who needs a contract) and you have a solid #2 (Kadri) and you have a bunch of depth centres too.     Which is fine if you have a plethora of young talent through out the roster but the leafs had (and still have) holes.

So now they got rid of Kadri & let some of their depth centres walk as well they have played Nylander on the wing but they still have those holes because they traded from a position of weakness.   They could have traded Kadri for a RD as soon as they  signed Tavares, or traded Nylander to fill needs etc.  

At some point a GM has to make tough decisions because you cant keep everyone.  PK Subban was just a salary dump for Pete's sake!

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On ‎2019‎-‎07‎-‎22 at 1:40 PM, jennifer_rocket said:

Most likely. We need to have at least one major scapegoat every season. It could easily be Laine if he played here and went into a major slump after getting himself a big contract.

 I don't even get why people would think the Jets would trade this guy ...even if he holds  out as an RFA Winnipeg still has $17.5 mill in cap space to offer him a bridge deal at decent money somewhere in the Aho range . the only thing Montreal has going for them in this rumour is that Laine is a Finn and a hope that he'll pull a Nylander ...either way I don't see Bergy doing this ...surprise me please !

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13 hours ago, arpem-can said:

 I don't even get why people would think the Jets would trade this guy ...even if he holds  out as an RFA Winnipeg still has $17.5 mill in cap space to offer him a bridge deal at decent money somewhere in the Aho range .

I agree that Winnipeg should match - in fact i think in almost every case, unless you offer enough to get 4 first rounders, or its a deal for a mid-tier RFA, its highly unlikely a team wont match.

That said, they do have $17m+ in cap space left but i think they only have something like 7 or 8 forwards signed. Certainly not impossible (especially with only Laine and connor as their 2 high profile RFAs left) but they do need to sign several players to fill out their roster with that remaining cap space. 

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30 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I agree that Winnipeg should match - in fact i think in almost every case, unless you offer enough to get 4 first rounders, or its a deal for a mid-tier RFA, its highly unlikely a team wont match.

That said, they do have $17m+ in cap space left but i think they only have something like 7 or 8 forwards signed. Certainly not impossible (especially with only Laine and connor as their 2 high profile RFAs left) but they do need to sign several players to fill out their roster with that remaining cap space. 

  which makes me think they'll be going the Leaf route ….sign 3 or 4 players in the $700,000 to 1 million range to fill out the roster ...some teams have to do it more than others but for sure the NHL has to do something about teams buying long term injured reserve contracts in order to create cap room ...that's a farce 

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42 minutes ago, arpem-can said:

  which makes me think they'll be going the Leaf route ….sign 3 or 4 players in the $700,000 to 1 million range to fill out the roster ...some teams have to do it more than others but for sure the NHL has to do something about teams buying long term injured reserve contracts in order to create cap room ...that's a farce 

They need 4 players 2 being Liane and Conner plus they would like to move on from Kulikov so really the would like to get 3 players in addition to Liane and Conner. If Conner gets say 8 x 8 and Liane gets 8 x 8 that's 16 of their 17 mil there is no way they can sign 2 players for 1 mil with the league minimum being 700k plus do you really think one of Conner or Liane let alone both would be happy at 8 when Hayes got 7? I don't. So reality dictates Conner at 8.5 minimum and Liane at 9-9.5 minimum putting them over the cap and 2 players short. So if I am MB or any other GM I use this to my advantage I suggest a trade of

Drouin, Evans, Juulsen + 2nd 2020 Chicago

For 

Liane + 3rd 2020 + 5th 2020

Or Offer sheet Liane at 10.5 and see if they match if not you have Liane and if so offer Conner at 9 and get him either way it's a win and no way the jets can match both offer sheets 

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1 hour ago, campabee82 said:

They need 4 players 2 being Liane and Conner plus they would like to move on from Kulikov so really the would like to get 3 players in addition to Liane and Conner. If Conner gets say 8 x 8 and Liane gets 8 x 8 that's 16 of their 17 mil there is no way they can sign 2 players for 1 mil with the league minimum being 700k plus do you really think one of Conner or Liane let alone both would be happy at 8 when Hayes got 7? I don't. So reality dictates Conner at 8.5 minimum and Liane at 9-9.5 minimum putting them over the cap and 2 players short. So if I am MB or any other GM I use this to my advantage I suggest a trade of

Drouin, Evans, Juulsen + 2nd 2020 Chicago

For 

Liane + 3rd 2020 + 5th 2020

Or Offer sheet Liane at 10.5 and see if they match if not you have Liane and if so offer Conner at 9 and get him either way it's a win and no way the jets can match both offer sheets 

Can't realistically see MB going the offer route again. There's also the fact that the players would have to sign one, and you would once again be tied up for a week before making a move on the other one. If we want either of those guys, we'd need to trade for them IMO. 

From the rumours, it seems we've inquired about one or possibly even both of them, and doesn't look like we've made a serious offer worth considering.

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8 hours ago, arpem-can said:

  which makes me think they'll be going the Leaf route ….sign 3 or 4 players in the $700,000 to 1 million range to fill out the roster ...some teams have to do it more than others but for sure the NHL has to do something about teams buying long term injured reserve contracts in order to create cap room ...that's a farce 

It is a farce which only benefits the rich teams.

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Michael Russo stating that Jake Gardiner has a handshake long-term deal with a team, but that that team needs to move out another D man on a big contract first to be able to make Gardiner fit. That doesn't sound like us. We're not moving Alzner's contract without taking cap hit back, and I doubt we're trying to move Weber or Petry to make Gardiner fit. So if true, that would be the last of the free agents who could have helped our D's left side... MB better be hard on the trail of a big trade or our season is doomed.

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17 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Michael Russo stating that Jake Gardiner has a handshake long-term deal with a team, but that that team needs to move out another D man on a big contract first to be able to make Gardiner fit. That doesn't sound like us. We're not moving Alzner's contract without taking cap hit back, and I doubt we're trying to move Weber or Petry to make Gardiner fit. So if true, that would be the last of the free agents who could have helped our D's left side... MB better be hard on the trail of a big trade or our season is doomed.

Yeah it sounds unlikely to be us

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Michael Russo stating that Jake Gardiner has a handshake long-term deal with a team, but that that team needs to move out another D man on a big contract first to be able to make Gardiner fit. That doesn't sound like us. We're not moving Alzner's contract without taking cap hit back, and I doubt we're trying to move Weber or Petry to make Gardiner fit. So if true, that would be the last of the free agents who could have helped our D's left side... MB better be hard on the trail of a big trade or our season is doomed.

Definitely doesnt sound like us and honestly, im ok with that - AS LONG AS - MB is actually going to land a top pariing LHD.  Im more than happy to bypass Gardiner if we can land a Sanheim or Ghost or whomever.   What i dont want to do is go into the season with a LD corps of Mete, Kulak, Chiarot & a whole lot of hopes and prayers. 

Reading between the lines, a lot of analysts seem to think MB will be pushing hard to be competitive in the coming couple of years because Price and Weber are starting to give him ultimatums because they want to win.   Remains to be seen if that actually happens but it will be interesting to watch. 

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18 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Michael Russo stating that Jake Gardiner has a handshake long-term deal with a team, but that that team needs to move out another D man on a big contract first to be able to make Gardiner fit. That doesn't sound like us. We're not moving Alzner's contract without taking cap hit back, and I doubt we're trying to move Weber or Petry to make Gardiner fit. So if true, that would be the last of the free agents who could have helped our D's left side... MB better be hard on the trail of a big trade or our season is doomed.

I don't know, doesn't really sound like a legitimate rumor.

If a team was really interested in Gardiner they could probably just sign him and move someone after. It's easy enough for a team to operate over the cap limit before the season starts. Several teams are doing it right now, according to Capfriendly.

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