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32 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Totally agree and I wouldn't be surprised if Hudon enters camp with a huge chip on his shoulder and really comes out with something to prove. If that's the case I like a third line of 

Lehkonen-Danault-Hudon 

As they played well together in the past even if Danault remains on the top line I would consider keeping Lehkonen and Hudon on a line together

I personally think Hudon can be a top 9 winger.  Im just not sure if Julien will give him a chance.

I think Danault stays on that top line unless there's a trade.  I think Julien believes he's on his way to being his next Bergeron (and there was an interesting article comparing the 2 in this stage of their respective careers) 

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23 hours ago, maas_art said:

I personally think Hudon can be a top 9 winger.  Im just not sure if Julien will give him a chance.

I think Danault stays on that top line unless there's a trade.  I think Julien believes he's on his way to being his next Bergeron (and there was an interesting article comparing the 2 in this stage of their respective careers) 

https://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2019/7/19/20698234/canadiens-have-own-patrice-bergeron-in-phillip-danault-selke-trophy-two-way-centre-bruins-top-line

 

For anyone who hasn't read it.

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29 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

I thought this one was dead but found this article posted an hour ago.

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2019/08/08/nhl-rumours-montreal-canadiens-jake-gardiner-boston-bruins-and-more/

Knowing how Bergevin works, I suspect that he put a "take it or leave it" deal in front of Gardiner right back on July 1.   As each day goes by and Gardiner remains unsigned, i could see that deal getting more and more appealing. 

Like many others, Im fine with signing Jake Gardiner if the details are right. Id give him 1 or 2 years but beyond that he could be a liability with better, cheaper options coming through our pipe. 

I still think its quite unlikely he signs with us but there's certainly a chance. 

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37 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Knowing how Bergevin works, I suspect that he put a "take it or leave it" deal in front of Gardiner right back on July 1.   As each day goes by and Gardiner remains unsigned, i could see that deal getting more and more appealing. 

Like many others, Im fine with signing Jake Gardiner if the details are right. Id give him 1 or 2 years but beyond that he could be a liability with better, cheaper options coming through our pipe. 

I still think its quite unlikely he signs with us but there's certainly a chance. 

Yeah only reason I even bothered to post the link is cause it was Mike Johnson from Sportsnet who seems to think Gardiner will sign with the Habs in the next couple of days.

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2 hours ago, campabee82 said:

Yeah only reason I even bothered to post the link is cause it was Mike Johnson from Sportsnet who seems to think Gardiner will sign with the Habs in the next couple of days.

Yeah, Johnson has been pushing for this for a while.  He sees it as a "no brainer" for his old team:  We need a puck moving LHD and gardiner was - and still is - the best available without having to give up any assets. 

The problem (and the reason he's not signed, I assume) is most likely term.   Its all good and fine to want him for 1-2 years but if he wants 7 years then what? Do you cave? knowing that guys like Romanov, Struble, Norlinder and Harris are all coming down the pipeline & will need spots (along with mete & co) in the very near future?

6 minutes ago, East_Coast_Juggalo_13 said:

I  would be shocked if Gardiner actually signs in MTL.

Id put the chance of it happening at 5-10% so yeah, im definitely not expecting it but the fit is still there if the term ends up being something we can live with. 

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if we had Gardiner we would pretty much be a contender not a top 3 contender but a 5-10 contender. this is not because he is so great but it is a hole we have had since Marky left and it would complete out team. i think with him it would balance our D and combine that with a very well balanced if not super star studded bunch of forwards and a great goalie and we would be pretty good. without him or someone like him it is like we have a flat spot and our whole left D will be out of position yet again.

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2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

if we had Gardiner we would pretty much be a contender not a top 3 contender but a 5-10 contender. this is not because he is so great but it is a hole we have had since Marky left and it would complete out team. i think with him it would balance our D and combine that with a very well balanced if not super star studded bunch of forwards and a great goalie and we would be pretty good. without him or someone like him it is like we have a flat spot and our whole left D will be out of position yet again.

I wouldn't mind if MB offered JG something like 5-5.5 for 1-2 years like everyone else though I think the chances of that happening are slim to none

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2 hours ago, ramcharger440 said:

if we had Gardiner we would pretty much be a contender not a top 3 contender but a 5-10 contender. this is not because he is so great but it is a hole we have had since Marky left and it would complete out team. i think with him it would balance our D and combine that with a very well balanced if not super star studded bunch of forwards and a great goalie and we would be pretty good. without him or someone like him it is like we have a flat spot and our whole left D will be out of position yet again.

I agree that adding him (especially in this case because we wouldnt have to lose anyone else in a trade) would be a good move for the short term. The real worry is long-term where I think signing him would possibly prevent better players from moving up in the ranks.

The way I see it, MB has a few options:

1) Trade for a true top pairing LHD (Sanheim, Ghost, Klefbom etc)  which is probably the best thing for our LHD spot but would mean weakening us elsewhere. 
2) Sign Gardiner.  There's no other UFA even close to him, so its him or nothing
3) Keep the status quo.   This seems like it might be the way MB goes but I certainly hope not.

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

I agree that adding him (especially in this case because we wouldnt have to lose anyone else in a trade) would be a good move for the short term. The real worry is long-term where I think signing him would possibly prevent better players from moving up in the ranks.

The way I see it, MB has a few options:

1) Trade for a true top pairing LHD (Sanheim, Ghost, Klefbom etc)  which is probably the best thing for our LHD spot but would mean weakening us elsewhere. 
2) Sign Gardiner.  There's no other UFA even close to him, so its him or nothing
3) Keep the status quo.   This seems like it might be the way MB goes but I certainly hope not.

at some point we are going to have to get real and sign the players we need for the short term to get the job done. i agree we have to be able to be flexible to allow young players who are developing to move up but they have to earn it too, we can't just put them there and hope they pan out or if we do we can't complain when it takes time. in our case we don't have a ton of time as we have two of our best Dmen and out goalie who are at the end of the prime years they have in them so it is go time for this group. after that you trade away the contracts you don't want and replace them with more kids at a much lower price, it seems that is what the best teams in the league are doing. in Gardiner we don't give up a player other than perhaps a salary dump we get better and we may have a shot, without him or some player like him we are just treading water yet again 

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8 hours ago, habs1952 said:

I'd be disgusted.

 

8 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Short of a bargain bin 1 year deal,,,,,, me too.

I will say this I don't like Gardiner either but there is no denying he would make the left side better and may even push us over the top just because he fills our BIGGEST need. So of it means we have to take Gardiner for a shot at the cup (and embarrass the Leafs by using a guy they tossed aside to do it) I am all for it

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if not Gardiner then who? if we don't fill that slot we are yet again wasting time and years from our best players! get it done and live with it do what you have to do on the other end to get out of it but do something! or don't expect much in terms of results the kids are not there yet and if we make a trade and give up good assets to get a good D man are we any further ahead?

 

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1 hour ago, ramcharger440 said:

if not Gardiner then who? if we don't fill that slot we are yet again wasting time and years from our best players! get it done and live with it do what you have to do on the other end to get out of it but do something! or don't expect much in terms of results the kids are not there yet and if we make a trade and give up good assets to get a good D man are we any further ahead?

If not Gardiner it has to be a trade imho. 

"Hoping" that leskinen or Mete or Chiarot or whomever will exceed expectations is not the way to enter yet another season. 

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2 hours ago, maas_art said:

If not Gardiner it has to be a trade imho. 

"Hoping" that leskinen or Mete or Chiarot or whomever will exceed expectations is not the way to enter yet another season. 

We've seen enough of Mete to know what we're getting ... he's middle pairing Dman ... he is not going to drive offence etc.

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20 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

We've seen enough of Mete to know what we're getting ... he's middle pairing Dman ... he is not going to drive offence etc.

Certainly have to disagree with this. I agree he is not top pairing, YET. And was pushed there because we need help on the left side. I still think Mete will be a very good player for us. 

You have to remember he is only 21 years old and entering in only his 3rd season. Also deeman in general take longer to develop at the NHL level.

He does drive the offence already. He leads rushes, he jumps in the offensive play quickly, he is a tremendous skater and at top speed in one or two strides.

I know his points total have not shown that yet.  But i don't always think that is a measurement of where a young player is at in his development. 

If after 4 or 5 seasons if he is not scoring or not putting up 30 or 40 points then I would agree. But i still see to many good things in his game i actually could see him getting 25 plus points this season. NOPE let me rephrase that, I expect him to get 25 plus points this season

 

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oops hit submit and forgot about my post

On the left side we have Mete, Kulak, Reilly and at some point in future Romanov.   I think Reilly is on the bubble, Romanov is a question mark who may never come to NA

So you got Mete and Kulak who are both middle/bottom pairing guys ... I think people are over valuing Mete and think he may be a top/middle pairing player .. I just don't see him that way.  So if Romanov peeks out at a middle pairing guy as well ... that still leaves us with three guys that can play bottom  #2 and #3 LD and nobody for the top pair.

There's a reason Mete was a 4th round pick and not a 1st round one ... I don't see him developing into much more than your #3 defenceman ... that's his ceiling.   He will never be a top pairing guy.

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11 minutes ago, caperns61 said:

Certainly have to disagree with this. I agree he is not top pairing, YET. And was pushed there because we need help on the left side. I still think Mete will be a very good player for us. 

You have to remember he is only 21 years old and entering in only his 3rd season. Also deeman in general take longer to develop at the NHL level.

He does drive the offence already. He leads rushes, he jumps in the offensive play quickly, he is a tremendous skater and at top speed in one or two strides.

I know his points total have not shown that yet.  But i don't always think that is a measurement of where a young player is at in his development. 

If after 4 or 5 seasons if he is not scoring or not putting up 30 or 40 points then I would agree. But i still see to many good things in his game i actually could see him getting 25 plus points this season. NOPE let me rephrase that, I expect him to get 25 plus points this season

 

25-30pts does not a top pairing offensive Dman make.    

From Mete's draft year ...

NAME  GP PTS

Sergachev  158gp, 72pts ... had 32 in 75 last year, 2nd full season in NHL

McAvoy 117gp 60pts ... had 45 in 54 last year, almost a PPG, his 2nd full season in NHL (injuries))

Chychrun 171 54pts ... had 20 in 52 last year, 3rd full season in NHL (injuries)

Girard 155 50pts,  had 27 in 82 games last year, 2nd full season in NHL

Mete 120 20pts ... had 13 in 71 games, 2nd full season in HL

Compare Mete to Girard ... both have played 2 full season, Girard had 27pts last year and Mete 13 ...  Girard had 20pts in his 1st full season ... Mete was on pace for 10.

I didn't say Mete was "crap" ... I said at best his ceiling is a your #3 guy ... the middle pairing.   He will never be a top pairing Dman in the NHL.

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It's like deja vu all over again ...

"Mete will be a top pairing guy"

"Beaulieu is going to be incredible"

"Jiri Sekac is the guy who will put us over the top"

"we should keep Halak over Price"

"we're gonna regret trading Colberg for an aging Vanek"

"Scherbak just needs an oppurtunity and he'll be a top 6 winger"

"Galchenyuk is just misused by the coaches" - heck I'm guilty of that one, ignoring the giant hole in his Vision/IQ 

"Christian Thomas is going to be a good goal scorer in NHL" ... 27 career NHL games.

Yannick Weber, Tinordi, Diaz, Tokarski, D'Agostini, Andrighetto

So many players over the years that people tend to look at through rose colored glasses .. look at that list above except Mete ... do you really miss ANY of those players?  Did they amount to anything in the NHL?

Mete has speed, good work ethic and excellent defensive awareness ... he does not however display any of the natural (you can't teach) vision or hockey IQ to be a top pairing guy.  He will have a good career but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that he will ever be more than what he is.

And seriously, I think it's time we lost the infatuation with Trevor Timmins ... look at our drafting from 2005 onwards

 

2005 Carey Price ... and then mediocrity in Latendresse, D'Agostini and SKositisyn.    

2006 our picks in the first 3 rounds ... Ryan White is the only guy who made it to the NHL really, the 1st and 2nd round picks were busts.

2007 Good year with McDonagh, Paccioretty, Subban and Yannick Weber ... but we also had 5 picks never make the NHL at all.

2008 - Not a single NHL game from any of our picks

2009 - a combined 138 NHL games from 8 picks

2010 - Tinordi with 53 NHL games, 2 4th rounders with 3 and we lucked out with Brendan Gallagher in the 5th round.

2011 - Beaulieu with 332 NHL games ... the other 6 picks have  13 all from one guy.

2012 - Galchenyuk has been soso ... Hudon in the 5th round, our 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders never made it to the NHL.

2013 decent year ... but not exciting ... DeLaRose, Lehkonen, Andrighetto have all played about 200 NHL games each.    But McCArron, Fucale and Connnor Crips ... yuck

2014 ... checking the first round and most of these players are in their 2nd to 4th NHL year ...  we got Scherbak and Lernout ... combined 48 NHL games.

Sure we can blame it on SL as a coach in Hamilton/SJ/Laval ... but that's just some horrible drafting as well. .

 

 

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19 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

It's like deja vu all over again ...

"Mete will be a top pairing guy"

"Beaulieu is going to be incredible"

"Jiri Sekac is the guy who will put us over the top"

"we should keep Halak over Price"

"we're gonna regret trading Colberg for an aging Vanek"

"Scherbak just needs an oppurtunity and he'll be a top 6 winger"

"Galchenyuk is just misused by the coaches" - heck I'm guilty of that one, ignoring the giant hole in his Vision/IQ 

"Christian Thomas is going to be a good goal scorer in NHL" ... 27 career NHL games.

Yannick Weber, Tinordi, Diaz, Tokarski, D'Agostini, Andrighetto

So many players over the years that people tend to look at through rose colored glasses .. look at that list above except Mete ... do you really miss ANY of those players?  Did they amount to anything in the NHL?

Mete has speed, good work ethic and excellent defensive awareness ... he does not however display any of the natural (you can't teach) vision or hockey IQ to be a top pairing guy.  He will have a good career but lets not fool ourselves into thinking that he will ever be more than what he is.

And seriously, I think it's time we lost the infatuation with Trevor Timmins ... look at our drafting from 2005 onwards

 

2005 Carey Price ... and then mediocrity in Latendresse, D'Agostini and SKositisyn.    

2006 our picks in the first 3 rounds ... Ryan White is the only guy who made it to the NHL really, the 1st and 2nd round picks were busts.

2007 Good year with McDonagh, Paccioretty, Subban and Yannick Weber ... but we also had 5 picks never make the NHL at all.

2008 - Not a single NHL game from any of our picks

2009 - a combined 138 NHL games from 8 picks

2010 - Tinordi with 53 NHL games, 2 4th rounders with 3 and we lucked out with Brendan Gallagher in the 5th round.

2011 - Beaulieu with 332 NHL games ... the other 6 picks have  13 all from one guy.

2012 - Galchenyuk has been soso ... Hudon in the 5th round, our 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounders never made it to the NHL.

2013 decent year ... but not exciting ... DeLaRose, Lehkonen, Andrighetto have all played about 200 NHL games each.    But McCArron, Fucale and Connnor Crips ... yuck

2014 ... checking the first round and most of these players are in their 2nd to 4th NHL year ...  we got Scherbak and Lernout ... combined 48 NHL games.

Sure we can blame it on SL as a coach in Hamilton/SJ/Laval ... but that's just some horrible drafting as well. .

 

 

I agree on the drafting. I do feel like it might be turning around. MB seems to be a good judge of talent and I think he's making more decisions. If I remember correctly he wanted Morgan Reilly instead of Chucky. Would have been the right move. 

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I've seen enough of Gardiner when he's healthy and IMO he's not worth what he's looking for. Now with that questionable back issue, there's no way I want to tie up money for a guy who likely plays at an even lower level. Back problems tend to make people cautious about their daily activities. Imagine if it was playing in the NHL I've never considered him a first pairing D-man despite the inflated numbers he may have had with a stacked team. I would much rather go for a sure thing by trade, even if it does cost us assets. Anything more then a year with this guy has Alzner written all over it. MMW

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