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11 hours ago, maas_art said:

A small - but important - detail about the Gardiner offer.

Sportsnet reporting that Bergevin's  $15m + 3 year deal was in early July.   At that time the belief is that Gardiner thought he could get $6+m  so he may have balked at the Habs offer.

Not wanting to sit around & do nothing, Bergevin waited a little bit, moved on from Gardiner & then offered Chiarot the deal.  
 

more than likely this.     And I still maintain Chariot vs Gardiner is the same value to the Habs when looking at the overall roster.     Gardiner has direct value, Chariot has indirect value ... allowing others players (eg Petry) to shift their game etc.     Chariot - Petry I think will generate as much offence as Gardiner - Weber,  Gardiner - Petry would.

 

 

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38 minutes ago, HabsAlways said:

more than likely this.     And I still maintain Chariot vs Gardiner is the same value to the Habs when looking at the overall roster.     Gardiner has direct value, Chariot has indirect value ... allowing others players (eg Petry) to shift their game etc.     Chariot - Petry I think will generate as much offence as Gardiner - Weber,  Gardiner - Petry would.

I guess we'll find out... I'm really down on the Chiarot deal. I don't expect it to be Karl Alzner levels of bad, but I'm not holding my breath for any real positive impact on the roster.

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12 hours ago, maas_art said:

A small - but important - detail about the Gardiner offer.

Sportsnet reporting that Bergevin's  $15m + 3 year deal was in early July.   At that time the belief is that Gardiner thought he could get $6+m  so he may have balked at the Habs offer.

Not wanting to sit around & do nothing, Bergevin waited a little bit, moved on from Gardiner & then offered Chiarot the deal.  
 

  The more I think about it the more I'm glad Montreal didn't sign Gardiner who was already in a bit of a bubble in Toronto and in disfavour to some degree . I think he chose less of a fishbowl atmosphere and actually might thrive in Carolina but in Montreal I doubt he could handle any further impending scrutiny . His play-off mistakes were magnified by the Press and fans in Toronto but really he's a pretty good player over all ....just not suited to the Hab's market .  Bergy wants to assemble players that actually want to play in Montreal and embrace the opportunity ala Max Domi  . That's why I think this is the team we'll see for the first 20 games with a only few tweaks from within the system . I'm not unhappy with what Bergevin has acquired so far with the exception of Alzner who can't be faulted for taking the deal he got  and who will in all likelihood  play out at least another year in the AHL before being bought out at a lesser penalty . 

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8 hours ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I guess we'll find out... I'm really down on the Chiarot deal. I don't expect it to be Karl Alzner levels of bad, but I'm not holding my breath for any real positive impact on the roster.

i am not all that down on Chiarot i am not blown away either. i think he will be a good partner for Petry he played good with Buff so i am not to worried about him, i just wish we could have found a Marky type player with some good years left to play with Webber until we can draft what we need for there.

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1 hour ago, maas_art said:

Huh?   Not sure what you're implying grandpa, but im not Paul Coffey.  There's this new thing called the internet. You can look up NHL records - you dont have to have been around to see the games even! :)

 

 

"I'm" , "don't"  :frech1: 

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On 9/11/2019 at 9:14 PM, BigTed3 said:

Sure. But how much money Carolina spends is a variable. They can to some degree control that by adding new investors for example or by Dundon just spending more money (the guy has deep pockets and just chooses to spend less)... the Habs can do zippo about taxes and weather.

That's true but there's always a limit and the Hurricanes are notoriously thrifty on their front office while the Canadiens have unlimited money to chase market efficiencies that way (even though they choose not to). The Hurricanes will never have the kind of unlimited purse the Canadiens do unless an owner decides to burn through his personal fortune on a vanity project, the Canadiens, Leafs, and Rangers are the only teams that genuinely make more money for their ownership than putting that money in their existing business would. That's a huge advantage in a league like the NHL where even the most recent cup champions are known to be a budget team. 

On 9/11/2019 at 9:22 PM, campabee82 said:

I think he is a canes fan in our forum or worse a Leafs fan LOL. I should clarify I meant Noob616 not BigTed.

No I am just incredibly sick of the crying about taxes, the Leafs and Rangers have high taxes and have no trouble attracting UFAs. The Jets have high taxes and the worst weather in the league and they just got Morrissey at a discount. The Panthers have no taxes and they had to pay Bobrovsky as much as Price to sign there. The Stars have no taxes and they paid Seguin 9.85 which is just in proportion to Tavares at 11M since he's not as good. I just don't really see this pile of discount value deals that low/no tax teams are ostensibly getting. There's 3 hockey franchises on the planet where money is truly no object and they're the Leafs, Rangers, and Canadiens. The other two have just signed franchise players for big money in consecutive off seasons while we signed Alzner and Chiarot and complain about taxes. 

Like I said the last time this came up, it's a real Pandora's box and I think Habs fans should be careful what they wish for. The Habs run their own private European and North American draft combines, they bankroll a new AHL team and are reportedly opening an ECHL team in Trois-Rivieres, they paid Price almost entirely in signing bonuses, fired Therrien and added a 25M coach contract at the drop of a hat, hired two highly touted young coaches in Bouchard/Ducharme for presumably a fair bit of money. Do we think the Canadiens will still be allowed to have a private draft combine if the league starts adjusting for taxes? Do we think a tax adjusted cap would be a good thing if it means the Leafs and Rangers also get an additional 10M to spend? Will the Canadiens be able to spend 25M to bring in a top 5 coach in the league if we start tax adjusting player salaries? 

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34 minutes ago, Noob616 said:

No I am just incredibly sick of the crying about taxes, the Leafs and Rangers have high taxes and have no trouble attracting UFAs. The Jets have high taxes and the worst weather in the league and they just got Morrissey at a discount. The Panthers have no taxes and they had to pay Bobrovsky as much as Price to sign there. The Stars have no taxes and they paid Seguin 9.85 which is just in proportion to Tavares at 11M since he's not as good. I just don't really see this pile of discount value deals that low/no tax teams are ostensibly getting. There's 3 hockey franchises on the planet where money is truly no object and they're the Leafs, Rangers, and Canadiens. The other two have just signed franchise players for big money in consecutive off seasons while we signed Alzner and Chiarot and complain about taxes. 

Like I said the last time this came up, it's a real Pandora's box and I think Habs fans should be careful what they wish for. The Habs run their own private European and North American draft combines, they bankroll a new AHL team and are reportedly opening an ECHL team in Trois-Rivieres, they paid Price almost entirely in signing bonuses, fired Therrien and added a 25M coach contract at the drop of a hat, hired two highly touted young coaches in Bouchard/Ducharme for presumably a fair bit of money. Do we think the Canadiens will still be allowed to have a private draft combine if the league starts adjusting for taxes? Do we think a tax adjusted cap would be a good thing if it means the Leafs and Rangers also get an additional 10M to spend? Will the Canadiens be able to spend 25M to bring in a top 5 coach in the league if we start tax adjusting player salaries? 

I actually agree with this as most players are more worried about winning than the tax rate. If we had made the playoffs last year and won a round or two perhaps Duchene would have seen the team he grew up cheering for as being a contender this year or next year and may have signed here. I doubt there was really anything MB could have done about Gardner though as he wanted to be a Leaf and if he felt a strong enough connection to the Leafs there may have been nothing the GM of the Habs or Sens could have done to get him to sign with their teams. So while taxes may affect have some bearing on a players decision ultimately I think it comes down to who that player feels like give them the best shot at the championship during the contract term.

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Engels: "Pursuant to @MikeHeika report that Julius Honka has requested a trade from DAL, I'm told #Habs are among a couple of teams interested. Belief is that they'd be willing to make a player-for-player swap rather than give up a pick. Believe another East team in the mix." 

23 Years old, 5' 11", 180#,  Right D, 

87 GP, 2 G, 11 A, 28 PIM.

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14 minutes ago, kinot-2 said:

Engels: "Pursuant to @MikeHeika report that Julius Honka has requested a trade from DAL, I'm told #Habs are among a couple of teams interested. Belief is that they'd be willing to make a player-for-player swap rather than give up a pick. Believe another East team in the mix." 

23 Years old, 5' 11", 180#,  Right D, 

87 GP, 2 G, 11 A, 28 PIM.

Maybe the new plan is to load up on right D and develop a game plan that pushes all opposing players to that side of the ice.:ph34r:

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4 hours ago, kinot-2 said:

Engels: "Pursuant to @MikeHeika report that Julius Honka has requested a trade from DAL, I'm told #Habs are among a couple of teams interested. Belief is that they'd be willing to make a player-for-player swap rather than give up a pick. Believe another East team in the mix." 

23 Years old, 5' 11", 180#,  Right D, 

87 GP, 2 G, 11 A, 28 PIM.

Unless they are taking back a guy like Alzner (not happening) or maybe a forward or D we dont have room for (Peca, Weise, Sklenicka) im really not interested.

He's not as good as Juulsen and doenst have the potential of Brook or Fleury so why add him?  He may not even be better at Folin right now - his defensive game is really bad.  Like i said, if its just a depth move to add a low cost project, then fine but i wouldnt give up any assets for him.  He's basically a RD  Mike Reilly.   So its possible our scouts feel like he has untapped potential (but he'd have to clear waivers to go down & work with the guys in Laval) but considering he plays a position we're already very strong at, Id have almost no interest unless the cost was very very cheap. 

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8 hours ago, maas_art said:

Unless they are taking back a guy like Alzner (not happening) or maybe a forward or D we dont have room for (Peca, Weise, Sklenicka) im really not interested.

He's not as good as Juulsen and doenst have the potential of Brook or Fleury so why add him?  He may not even be better at Folin right now - his defensive game is really bad.  Like i said, if its just a depth move to add a low cost project, then fine but i wouldnt give up any assets for him.  He's basically a RD  Mike Reilly.   So its possible our scouts feel like he has untapped potential (but he'd have to clear waivers to go down & work with the guys in Laval) but considering he plays a position we're already very strong at, Id have almost no interest unless the cost was very very cheap. 

Sean Shapiro, who reports on the Stars, has stated that the Habs and Canes are two teams in on Honka, but that several Western teams have stated they wouldn't touch Honka if the asking price was a 3rd or 4th rounder. Shapiro also states that while the Stars want a pick, if the one they're offered is not high enough, they'd be willing to look at a player for organizational depth (which he then clarifies as a fringe AHL-NHL player). Hudon or McCarron would fit that bill.

I'm agreed with you though, that Juulsen and Brook and Fleury are all more interesting as options than Honka. To me, Honka fits in more like a Folin and I'm not sure he's an upgrade on anyone right now, albeit he would provide depth. I think this is a trade you look at if your prospects aren't ready or if you run into injuries, but it doesn't help us so much right now.

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3 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

Sean Shapiro, who reports on the Stars, has stated that the Habs and Canes are two teams in on Honka, but that several Western teams have stated they wouldn't touch Honka if the asking price was a 3rd or 4th rounder. Shapiro also states that while the Stars want a pick, if the one they're offered is not high enough, they'd be willing to look at a player for organizational depth (which he then clarifies as a fringe AHL-NHL player). Hudon or McCarron would fit that bill.

I'm agreed with you though, that Juulsen and Brook and Fleury are all more interesting as options than Honka. To me, Honka fits in more like a Folin and I'm not sure he's an upgrade on anyone right now, albeit he would provide depth. I think this is a trade you look at if your prospects aren't ready or if you run into injuries, but it doesn't help us so much right now.

Kinda tells you all you need to know about Honka.

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  • 2 weeks later...

The Montreal Canadiens have a few young forwards pushing to make the lineup this year. Due to that, a veteran may need to move out in a trade. If that is Jonathan Drouin, here are some potential deals for him.

https://awinninghabit.com/2019/09/25/montreal-canadiens-jonathan-drouin-trade/

Minnesota Wild

Zucker and Drouin both have four years left on their deals at exactly $5.5 million per season so there are literally no cap implications to this deal. Zucker set career highs with 33 goals and 64 points in 2017-18, but dropped to 21 goals and 42 points last year.

New York Islanders

Leddy was on the top defence pairing of the team that allowed the least number of goals against. His offence would likely bounce back on a strong even strength scoring team like the Montreal Canadiens, but even if it didn’t, he would form a heck of a shutdown pairing with Shea Weber.

Winnipeg Jets

In this deal, the Jets add a top six winger in Drouin to replace Laine. Drouin would be reunited with Nikolaj Ehlers who he played with while a member of the Halifax Mooseheads of the QMJHL. To say the pair dominated together would be a massive understatement.

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53 minutes ago, jennifer_rocket said:

I don't think I'd make that Winnipeg trade... Drouin, Cale Fleury, and a 2020 first rounder. No thanks. Laine hasn't exactly been a phenom since coming into the league. He had fewer points than Drouin did last season.

Hrm.  I would tend to disagree with your assessment of Laine. He has 36, 44, 30 goal seasons and he just turned 21.  Thats kind of the definition of phenom... 110 goals in his first 237 NHL games, all but a few before his 21 birthday... He may well be the best goal scorer in the league within a couple of years.  

If the price is only Drouin, Fleury and 1st? I do it for sure.  Laine more than makes up for the loss of drouin, Fleury, while I really like him, is projecting as a #4-6 dman and a 1st is always a gamble. 

Laine should theoretically solve some of our scoring woes and help fix our PP in a major way as we'd no longer only have one weapon (Weber) and teams would have trouble defending against both big shots.   Th e big knock on Laine is that he's one dimensional. He's a goal scorer and thats it. I buy that.  But so are most goal scorers.  The off-years for ovechkin have been bad to watch but thats life.  Id still want him on my team. 

 

Honestly though, i think Winnipeg would be pushing hard for Domi, JK or Suzuki and im not interested in giving up any of those 3 for Laine

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14 minutes ago, maas_art said:

Hrm.  I would tend to disagree with your assessment of Laine. He has 36, 44, 30 goal seasons and he just turned 21.  Thats kind of the definition of phenom... 110 goals in his first 237 NHL games, all but a few before his 21 birthday... He may well be the best goal scorer in the league within a couple of years.  

If the price is only Drouin, Fleury and 1st? I do it for sure.  Laine more than makes up for the loss of drouin, Fleury, while I really like him, is projecting as a #4-6 dman and a 1st is always a gamble. 

Laine should theoretically solve some of our scoring woes and help fix our PP in a major way as we'd no longer only have one weapon (Weber) and teams would have trouble defending against both big shots.   Th e big knock on Laine is that he's one dimensional. He's a goal scorer and thats it. I buy that.  But so are most goal scorers.  The off-years for ovechkin have been bad to watch but thats life.  Id still want him on my team. 

 

Honestly though, i think Winnipeg would be pushing hard for Domi, JK or Suzuki and im not interested in giving up any of those 3 for Laine

Yeah I would do that deal too. As for Laine being one dimensional,,,, I can live with that. He's still young and has a good chance to improve that side of his game. You can teach a guy defense but his scoring ability is a different horse all together. That's not something that comes natural to everyone. A sniper like that is exactly what our PP craves.

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