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30 minutes ago, Habberwacky said:

I am not sure we could have got more for Subban, Pacioretty or Galy Hard for me to see the returns as low value and don't see where we could have got more value  at any other time in their career. Arizona got Kessel, I am happier with Domi so I am not sure these players were at their lowest value based upon the returns they demanded. I do agree Drouin (perhaps the new Galchenyuk) needs to be careful. He is running against the philosophy of the team and the way he finished last year is not making life easier. We may be able to pair Drouin with a Brooks or Fleury to get a big return. Hopefully Drouin decides to show up tomorrow and puts some effort in at the end of the preseason

I agree with this I will also go on to add Drouin paired with KK may be exactly what Drouin needs wh8ch is a guy who will cover for him and let him focus on offense. We will see how it plays out though it may just be wishful thinking on my part for Drouin to get going LOL 

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4 hours ago, BigTed3 said:

 

 I don't think Drouin is safe. I tend to believe CJ doesn't appreciate Drouin's lack of work ethic, and we've seen Drouin dropped down the line-up as proof of this.

I would agree with you that MB probably doesn't feel like his hand is being forced right now and that it might be best to wait to trade him, but we also know that

1. The Habs have fished around acquiring another goal-scorer.

2. The Habs have reportedly put Drouin's name out in trade discussions, as per Eric Engels.

3. The Habs have a big hole at LHD, and Drouin may be our best trade chip to find one.

We also know that MB has frequently dealt his best players at their lowest possible values... Subban, Galchenyuk, Pacioretty, and so on. Doesn't mean he'll make a trade or that he'll make a bad one if he does, but I think if MB gets an offer he likes he'd be more than willing to pull the trigger.

While i think MB would entertain offers for drouin & may have floated his name to see what is out there, unless the return was substantial, he (MB) will give JD at least a month or two to prove he can be more consistent.

I absolutely think CJ has grown tired of JD.  Especially when he is used to guys like Gallagher, Domi, Shaw, Byron, Weber, Tatar, Danault, JK, etc etc who would stop the puck with their face or stay on the ice till they puked if it meant helping the team.   Explosive energy is not a necessary requirement for effort but it sure seems like sometimes JD is dialing it in. I could see that wearing very think very fast with CJ. He is NOT a CJ player, and wont be unless something changes in a major way.  If he's scoring, CJ will let it slide but when he has an abysmal 1/3 of the season like last year, you can be Julien is not happy. 

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11 hours ago, Habberwacky said:

I am not sure we could have got more for Subban, Pacioretty or Galy Hard for me to see the returns as low value and don't see where we could have got more value  at any other time in their career. Arizona got Kessel, I am happier with Domi so I am not sure these players were at their lowest value based upon the returns they demanded. I do agree Drouin (perhaps the new Galchenyuk) needs to be careful. He is running against the philosophy of the team and the way he finished last year is not making life easier. We may be able to pair Drouin with a Brooks or Fleury to get a big return. Hopefully Drouin decides to show up tomorrow and puts some effort in at the end of the preseason

Again, not a question of whether he could have gotten more at the time he traded them. I am saying he could have gotten more if he had traded them at different points in their careers or if he hadn't put them down so much publicly. When your own GM and coach publicly rag on a player like Subban, then yeah, you're putting doubt in your trade partners' heads and lowering his value. When you do the same to Galchenyuk and play him as a wing and play him on the 4th line, then yeah, you're getting less than what you could have if he was coming off a 30-goal season as a top 6 center. When you announce you don't want Pacioretty back and don't want to sign him to an extension, then you're bringing down his trade value, and even MB said he wished he had found a better trade but that Vegas was the only team willing to offer him a decent deal. I'm sure he's happy now, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have fleeced a team for more at the time. So this isn't a commentary on whether MB won or lost those trades, but I certainly believe he could have gotten better if he had played his cards properly. The right thing to do would have been to build up the players you're wanting to trade and he could/should do the same with Drouin now. If you know CJ doesn't like Drouin, then play him in your top 6, maximize his point production and trade value, then deal him. Don't drop him down the line-up and complain about his effort and then look to see who will offer you their dregs for him.

9 hours ago, maas_art said:

While i think MB would entertain offers for drouin & may have floated his name to see what is out there, unless the return was substantial, he (MB) will give JD at least a month or two to prove he can be more consistent.

I absolutely think CJ has grown tired of JD.  Especially when he is used to guys like Gallagher, Domi, Shaw, Byron, Weber, Tatar, Danault, JK, etc etc who would stop the puck with their face or stay on the ice till they puked if it meant helping the team.   Explosive energy is not a necessary requirement for effort but it sure seems like sometimes JD is dialing it in. I could see that wearing very think very fast with CJ. He is NOT a CJ player, and wont be unless something changes in a major way.  If he's scoring, CJ will let it slide but when he has an abysmal 1/3 of the season like last year, you can be Julien is not happy. 

And I think giving him time to build up his value would be the right move. I'm not in favor of dumping Drouin at his lowest point. But yeah, the writing is on the wall, as it has been for others before him that he doesn't fit in and that his attitude isn't appreciated. Likewise, this isn't a commentary on Drouin's value. CJ also didn't like Tyler Seguin and that worked out well for Dallas. MB has to be smart about any trade he makes.

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1 hour ago, H_T_L said:

Pens still 400K over the cap and looking to deal. Rumour they want to move Jack Johnson LD. Not that i'm interested, but this is the type of team MB needs to try and take advantage of  with their cap flexibility.

Sooooo glad we didnt sign Johnson last year.  people were wanting it & it was pretty obvious he was going to be terrible. 

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17 minutes ago, campabee82 said:

Thomas Hickey of the Islanders was placed on Waivers today, I do not know much about him other than last year I remember someone wanting to trade for him. Is he worth claiming to shore up the left side or should we pass on him?

He sort of fell off a cliff last year.  He's dealt with injury problems so maybe he's bounced back but considering they have waived him, I doubt it.

My whole approach to LD is this:    In Mete, Kulak, Chiarot, Reilly, Oullet, Leskinen etc  we have some solid options at 2nd and 3rd pair.   What we lack is a true top pairing guy.   If we try to acquire anyone we need to ask ourselves one simple question:  Is he better than Mete/Kulak/Chiarot.   If the answer is no, then there's no point in claiming/acquiring him.

A few years ago Hickey was definitely better than anyone we have. Right now, Id put him somewhere behind Mete/Kulak and maybe Chiarot/Reilly.  So for me, its a pass.  I would not be surprised at all if he's claimed though. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Friedman says we're heavily scouting San Jose and rumors are abound MB is interested in Vlasic. He's got a meaty and unfavorable contract left, so he's probably a guy you would have looked at acquiring 3-4 years ago. Like Weber and Markov and Streit and so on, he's getting to the point that he's past prime and on the decline. Not a good time to trade for him IMO. San Jose would have to eat salary and/or take Alzner back to make the deal even workable.

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48 minutes ago, BigTed3 said:

Friedman says we're heavily scouting San Jose and rumors are abound MB is interested in Vlasic. He's got a meaty and unfavorable contract left, so he's probably a guy you would have looked at acquiring 3-4 years ago. Like Weber and Markov and Streit and so on, he's getting to the point that he's past prime and on the decline. Not a good time to trade for him IMO. San Jose would have to eat salary and/or take Alzner back to make the deal even workable.

If its Vlasic for Alzner Id probably do it. Vlasic wont actively hurt you but even then, whats the point?  He's maybe a smidge better than Chiarot, Folin and co at this stage of his career. Totally not what we need.  We need a guy who can play effectively next to Weber & not require 'bailing out' which Shea seems to be unable to do at this stage of his career.  

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1 hour ago, BigTed3 said:

Friedman says we're heavily scouting San Jose and rumors are abound MB is interested in Vlasic. He's got a meaty and unfavorable contract left, so he's probably a guy you would have looked at acquiring 3-4 years ago. Like Weber and Markov and Streit and so on, he's getting to the point that he's past prime and on the decline. Not a good time to trade for him IMO. San Jose would have to eat salary and/or take Alzner back to make the deal even workable.

Actually it was TVA's Kevin Kurd who sited we were interested in Vlasic. Friedman said we were looking at Riikola from the Pens. See article below.

https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-rumors-october-17-2019/

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27 minutes ago, maas_art said:

If its Vlasic for Alzner Id probably do it. Vlasic wont actively hurt you but even then, whats the point?  He's maybe a smidge better than Chiarot, Folin and co at this stage of his career. Totally not what we need.  We need a guy who can play effectively next to Weber & not require 'bailing out' which Shea seems to be unable to do at this stage of his career.  

I agree on Vlasic and quite frankly do we really need to have any partner on any pairing to need bailing out ever? the fact that Mete who i do like is on our first pairing when i feel he would struggle to make any other squad in the league due to never having scored a goal this far into his career his small size the fact larger forwards can strip him of the puck fairly easily if they get him up against the boards is kind of a sad indicator of where our Dcorps is at and how poorly MB has understood just what we really need.

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33 minutes ago, ramcharger440 said:

I agree on Vlasic and quite frankly do we really need to have any partner on any pairing to need bailing out ever? the fact that Mete who i do like is on our first pairing when i feel he would struggle to make any other squad in the league due to never having scored a goal this far into his career his small size the fact larger forwards can strip him of the puck fairly easily if they get him up against the boards is kind of a sad indicator of where our Dcorps is at and how poorly MB has understood just what we really need.

I think you always have to look at who a player plays against. If Mete was on the 3rd pair, getting 3rd pair duties - even if he was on the 2nd - i bet he'd have goals by now.  The problem is that every night he gets tough, tough assignments.    

Its pretty obvious that the plan of several teams we've seen already is:  bring the puck in against mete, overpower him - then get Weber out of position & then you're set to make a play.   In the past, Weber could make up for this but (so far) this year, he cant.  So we need to fix this & fast.  its not unlike when we had Emelin there & you could see players burn past him but back then Weber could usually adjust & fix things.  Now they cant beat mete with speed but they can with physicality and Weber has been unable to deal with that. 

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59 minutes ago, maas_art said:

I think you always have to look at who a player plays against. If Mete was on the 3rd pair, getting 3rd pair duties - even if he was on the 2nd - i bet he'd have goals by now.  The problem is that every night he gets tough, tough assignments.    

Its pretty obvious that the plan of several teams we've seen already is:  bring the puck in against mete, overpower him - then get Weber out of position & then you're set to make a play.   In the past, Weber could make up for this but (so far) this year, he cant.  So we need to fix this & fast.  its not unlike when we had Emelin there & you could see players burn past him but back then Weber could usually adjust & fix things.  Now they cant beat mete with speed but they can with physicality and Weber has been unable to deal with that. 

Why should he or any other partner have to worry about that every time the team comes down that side. that is my point he is gifted but not solid Frankie B was small but much tougher and we would not have wanted him on our first pair either. so if we have a miracle and get  first pairing LHD where does Mete play? next to Petry? then he has to worry about him too no? his offence will surely suffer from covering for Mete next he could drop to the third pairing that may work but does that not put his partner in the same spot? if he was racking up the points and some goals here and there it would be ok but even then i don't see him having a regular spot on most teams. as skilled as he is he is too small and or too much of a lightweight.

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FWIW:

 

According to Canada’s TVA Sports, the Canadiens are looking to add a left-shot defenseman and are specifically looking at San Jose Sharks blueliner Marc-Edouard Vlasic, a Montreal native. The article cites Sharks reporter Kevin Kurz who mentions that the Canadiens have been scouting the Sharks early this season.

Interesting that Elliotte mentions that Montreal is keeping an eye on left-shot defenders. Canadiens have been scouting the Sharks pretty heavily through the first part of the season, and Sharks do have a left-shot defenseman who’s from Montreal Elliotte Friedman on Twitter
— Kevin Kurz (@KKurzNHL) October 16, 2019

Vlasic hasn’t had the best start to 2019-20 with zero points and is a minus-eight through seven games. The once-premium defensive defenseman has struggled since the start of 2018-19 when he finished with 25 points and was a minus-six. He’s only in the second year of an eight-year, $56-million extension he signed in July 2017 is already 32 and will be 39 when his contract expires. His $7-million cap hit is costly for a player whose best days may already be behind him. Then there’s the presence of his full no-move clause that runs through 2022-23, meaning he can veto any trade.

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1 hour ago, kinot-2 said:

FWIW:

 

According to Canada’s TVA Sports, the Canadiens are looking to add a left-shot defenseman and are specifically looking at San Jose Sharks blueliner Marc-Edouard Vlasic, a Montreal native. The article cites Sharks reporter Kevin Kurz who mentions that the Canadiens have been scouting the Sharks early this season.

Interesting that Elliotte mentions that Montreal is keeping an eye on left-shot defenders. Canadiens have been scouting the Sharks pretty heavily through the first part of the season, and Sharks do have a left-shot defenseman who’s from Montreal Elliotte Friedman on Twitter
— Kevin Kurz (@KKurzNHL) October 16, 2019

Vlasic hasn’t had the best start to 2019-20 with zero points and is a minus-eight through seven games. The once-premium defensive defenseman has struggled since the start of 2018-19 when he finished with 25 points and was a minus-six. He’s only in the second year of an eight-year, $56-million extension he signed in July 2017 is already 32 and will be 39 when his contract expires. His $7-million cap hit is costly for a player whose best days may already be behind him. Then there’s the presence of his full no-move clause that runs through 2022-23, meaning he can veto any trade.

imho zero place for him on our roster.  I can see the appeal of an Alzner for Vlasic swap for us (Vlasic is still an NHL defensman, alzner is not) but i dont see why SJ would do it. 

Either way, neither player is what this team needs so i hope if we ARE scouting SJ its for someone else. Id have interest in Ferraro (but cant see SJ giving him up) but not much else on their blue line. 

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17 minutes ago, maas_art said:

imho zero place for him on our roster.  I can see the appeal of an Alzner for Vlasic swap for us (Vlasic is still an NHL defensman, alzner is not) but i dont see why SJ would do it. 

Either way, neither player is what this team needs so i hope if we ARE scouting SJ its for someone else. Id have interest in Ferraro (but cant see SJ giving him up) but not much else on their blue line. 

Not even sure it would be fair to us even with dumping Alzner. After this year his buyout is easily managed. We may be ahead of the game for a year or two, but then we have to deal with another declining aging guy making 7 mill forever.

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23 minutes ago, maas_art said:

imho zero place for him on our roster.  I can see the appeal of an Alzner for Vlasic swap for us (Vlasic is still an NHL defensman, alzner is not) but i dont see why SJ would do it. 

Either way, neither player is what this team needs so i hope if we ARE scouting SJ its for someone else. Id have interest in Ferraro (but cant see SJ giving him up) but not much else on their blue line. 

I really don't see anyone on their lineup I would be extatic to get outside Burns, Karlsson or Lebanc and even then the price and/or contracts would be too high.

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4 hours ago, H_T_L said:

Not even sure it would be fair to us even with dumping Alzner. After this year his buyout is easily managed. We may be ahead of the game for a year or two, but then we have to deal with another declining aging guy making 7 mill forever.

100% i like Vlassic enough but we don't need what he offers and that contract is bad news

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4 hours ago, campabee82 said:

I really don't see anyone on their lineup I would be extatic to get outside Burns, Karlsson or Lebanc and even then the price and/or contracts would be too high.

They have a couple of young guys (Ferraro is really intriguing) but if they move any of them they will have to basically 100% rebuild in a couple of years. 

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Montreal interested in 2020 KHL free agent LW Konstantin Okulov. He would be a third line winger who put up 20 goals and 31 points in 48 games last year. Also in the rumour mill, teams are calling the Habs about Paul Byron according to Dave Pagnotta. Here is a quote from the article. "Byron and his team-friendly contract are expendable. With their need for defence, moving him wouldn’t be hard and would bring in a hefty return."

Wonder if the Islanders would go Byron for Leddy? Or the Ducks Byron for Fowler? Both links are below.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/awinninghabit.com/2019/10/20/montreal-canadiens-rumour-konstantin-okulov/amp/

https://lastwordonhockey.com/2019/10/20/nhl-rumours-toronto-maple-leafs-montreal-canadiens-more/

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Laval Rocket play by play announcer Anthony Marcotte points out just how busy Bergevin's been. 

"You can be sure that Marc Bergevin is very busy in trade discussions right now. There was a lot of scoutsin Laval yesterday, same thing in Rockford Monday where Bergevin was, same scenario at the Bell Center on Tuesday. He's making a lot of noise behind the scenes."

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5 hours ago, campabee82 said:

ill, teams are calling the Habs about Paul Byron according to Dave Pagnotta. Here is a quote from the article. "Byron and his team-friendly contract are expendable. With their need for defence, moving him wouldn’t be hard and would bring in a hefty return."

Wonder if the Islanders would go Byron for Leddy? Or the Ducks Byron for Fowler? Both links are below.

Either of those deals woud make a ton of sense. Its great having the flexibility of Byron but its a luxury having him on the 4th line but a necessity to have someone better in the top LHD spot. 

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